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Author Topic: Check list before stage1 remap  (Read 3676 times)

Offline JimmyMK5GTI

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Check list before stage1 remap
« on: August 18, 2017, 04:24:37 pm »
Hi Gents,

I apologise if there is already a thread regarding this, new to the site so Im not great at navigating around it just yet..

Basically i just wanted to know a decent checklist of parts/mods to have on my mk5 before i get it stage 1 remapped..

My gti currently has ..
full miltek exhaust
aftermarket carbon fibre cold air feed (only a scoop joined into standard airbox and piping)
i believe it to have an high pressure fuel pump..

 I bought the car like this and have yet to modify it myself..

Is a FMIC beneficial for stage 1 or not?
What induction kits are good?
Will i need a bigger downpipe? If so which one?
I believe the miltek has all standard scilencers/cats.. would a decat benefit?

Any help is appreciated, cheers  :happy2:
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 04:26:41 pm by JimmyMK5GTI »

Offline RetroRaz

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Re: Check list before stage1 remap
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2017, 05:07:50 pm »
3" decat downpipe will get you to stage 2 so around 270BHP

Just make sure cam follower has been changed, and most importantly your car has no boost leaks. Either get a rev G diverter valve or a GFB DV+

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Re: Check list before stage1 remap
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2017, 05:49:38 pm »
S3 intercooler would be a nice upgade, but not essential for Stage 1. 


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Offline AJP

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Re: Check list before stage1 remap
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 09:02:03 pm »
Couple of things you could do with clarifying, before you get the map:

You list a full Milltek. Full should mean that it has a bigger downpipe and sport cat/decat, so would qualify for Stage 2 as Raz points out. If, however, the exhaust is 'cat back' rather than 'full', it means the OEM downpipe, main cat and pre cat are still in place. This is the biggest bottleneck in terms of tuning this engine.

You're right in saying it's got a high pressure fuel pump. They get a HPFP from the factory, as well as a low pressure pump at the tank. Uprated HPFPs... that's a different thing. They're essentially a standard Hitachi pump, modified by a tuning firm - such as APR or Loba - to deliver higher fuel pressure. You might be able to see a little logo of one of the tuners on the pump if you're prepared to get involved under the bonnet. An uprated HPFP qualifies you for the '+' of a map.

So, as things stand, you might be looking at:

Stage 1: Standard downpipe with cats, standard fuel pump.

Stage 1+: Standard downpipe with cats, uprated fuel pump.

Stage 2: Bigger downpipe with sport cat/decat, standard fuel pump.

Stage 2+: Bigger downpipe with sport cat/decat, uprated fuel pump.

Those definitions are generally accepted as the minimum required hardware mods to qualify you for the respective maps.

Intakes and intercoolers (while nice things to have) are less crucial, but all add something to the party.

I'd suggest investigating just what you've got that's either standard or uprated, and go from there.

Pick a good mapper. Plenty of threads for that.

Offline Leco_GTI

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Re: Check list before stage1 remap
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2017, 11:47:58 pm »
Couple of things you could do with clarifying, before you get the map:

You list a full Milltek. Full should mean that it has a bigger downpipe and sport cat/decat, so would qualify for Stage 2 as Raz points out. If, however, the exhaust is 'cat back' rather than 'full', it means the OEM downpipe, main cat and pre cat are still in place. This is the biggest bottleneck in terms of tuning this engine.

You're right in saying it's got a high pressure fuel pump. They get a HPFP from the factory, as well as a low pressure pump at the tank. Uprated HPFPs... that's a different thing. They're essentially a standard Hitachi pump, modified by a tuning firm - such as APR or Loba - to deliver higher fuel pressure. You might be able to see a little logo of one of the tuners on the pump if you're prepared to get involved under the bonnet. An uprated HPFP qualifies you for the '+' of a map.

So, as things stand, you might be looking at:

Stage 1: Standard downpipe with cats, standard fuel pump.

Stage 1+: Standard downpipe with cats, uprated fuel pump.

Stage 2: Bigger downpipe with sport cat/decat, standard fuel pump.

Stage 2+: Bigger downpipe with sport cat/decat, uprated fuel pump.

Those definitions are generally accepted as the minimum required hardware mods to qualify you for the respective maps.

Intakes and intercoolers (while nice things to have) are less crucial, but all add something to the party.

I'd suggest investigating just what you've got that's either standard or uprated, and go from there.

Pick a good mapper. Plenty of threads for that.

Hi AJP,

Thanks for the explanatjon. However I am a bit confused. Why does a stage 1+ would need an uprated fuel pump and stage 2 not since a stage 2 would be a more agressive map than a 1+?

Offline AJP

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Re: Check list before stage1 remap
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2017, 12:12:09 am »
It's not really a case of which map 'needs' certain hardware (not unless you're in the numbers game, which you could call 2+), more that different configurations of hardware deliver different results (in terms of torque curves and power delivery).

The various advertised/marketed stages are somewhat a distraction from the reality. It's quite a new thing (last ten to fifteen years maybe) to label certain maps 'Stage 1' or 'Stage 2+' or 'Stage 4', or whatever.

The reality is that the decent custom mappers out there can map a car close to its safe potential based on its specific and possibly unique hardware. Just like years ago. And years ago, tuners didn't push the 'Stage' marketing thing. It's just labelling.

So look at it this way:

Car A has a standard exhaust, and uprated pump. It makes 260bhp peak power, and 350lb/ft peak torque after a map. A while ago it was called a tuned car. Today it's called a 'Stage 1+' or whatever anyone wants to call it.

Car B has a full aftermarket exhaust, and standard pump. It makes 270bhp peak power, and 330lb/ft peak torque after a map. A while ago it was called a tuned car. Today it's called a 'Stage 2' or whatever anyone wants to call it.

Both cars are quick - probably equally as quick as each other. Just because car B has a 2 in the label it doesn't necessarily mean it's quicker than car A that only has a 1 in the label.

Don't read too much into the 'Stage' labels. At best, it's a rough guide. At worst, a misleading marketing trick. I used the labels in the earlier post as a rough guide.

Generally speaking, '+' in the labelling denotes the presence of an uprated fuel pump, which can function happily alongside a standard exhaust setup. Hence 'Stage 1+'.

Stage 2 denotes the presence of a full exhaust, ie bigger a downpipe fundamentally, which can function happily alongside a standard fuel pump (in most cases, fuel cuts depending). Hence 'Stage 2'.

I'll just clarify regarding the hypothetical power and torque figures above. Increasing flow and increasing fuelling give different results. You need to consider the curve, rather than peak figures; although the suggested peak figures were intended to give an indication of the curves, comparatively. Combining flow with fuelling... well that's the numbers game. AKA 2+.

Final edit. Might as well add this little reminder if anyone's still scratching their head:

Anyone wondering why a car with 350lb/ft peak torque might make less peak power than a car making 330lb/ft peak torque - it's all about where in the revs the torque is made. There's a thread on this, that I can't be arsed to revisit, but search the term 5252 and enter the rabbit hole if you want.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 12:39:21 am by AJP »

Offline P3T3R

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Re: Check list before stage1 remap
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2017, 07:48:10 am »
An excellent explanation there. Also worth checking out R-Techs website wether you plan to use them or not, http://r-techperformance.co.uk/2-0-tfsi-tuning/ If you are going to go with somebody like Revo or APR check their sites for recommendations. 

Offline JimmyMK5GTI

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Re: Check list before stage1 remap
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2017, 04:52:40 pm »
Thank you guy's especially AJP for your in depth reply  :happy2: ill do some investigating into full or cat-back exhaust as well as try identify the hpfp a little further ill check out the rtech website and also look into getting a 3" downpipe

Really helpful guy's, much appreciated  :grin:

Offline Leco_GTI

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Re: Check list before stage1 remap
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2017, 08:53:35 pm »
Thank you for the explanation AJP. Much appreaciated  :notworthy:

I do want to tune my car too but my intake is playing up. I think I will save some money to do a carbon clean up and at the same time the RFD so I can eliminate the flaps and all problems associated with this as I think the flaps or the motor that control them is causing the problem with my intake. I guess I will be looking at around £400 for someone to do a carbon cleanup and RFD + £300 for the map at R-Tech. Car is currently stock with only resonator delete for sound.

Thanks for all the info.

Offline AJP

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Re: Check list before stage1 remap
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2017, 04:24:15 pm »
Thank you for the explanation AJP. Much appreaciated  :notworthy:

I do want to tune my car too but my intake is playing up. I think I will save some money to do a carbon clean up and at the same time the RFD so I can eliminate the flaps and all problems associated with this as I think the flaps or the motor that control them is causing the problem with my intake. I guess I will be looking at around £400 for someone to do a carbon cleanup and RFD + £300 for the map at R-Tech. Car is currently stock with only resonator delete for sound.

Thanks for all the info.
No worries mate. Definitely get things running 100% before you look into tuning. It's really tempting to overlook the basics and throw money at go-faster bits, but there's something satisfying about getting all the niggly bits of maintenance done, and then having confidence that the car will take the extra power!