Author Topic: Rtech Stage 2/2+  (Read 817 times)

Offline Craig Stanley

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Rtech Stage 2/2+
« on: September 24, 2017, 08:14:31 AM »
Back of to Rtech tomorrow for inlet and injector clean,and a Stage 2/2+ map. I've had my bcs tbe on for a while now and was just going for a clean and a tweak initially. My only other mod is a pipercross panel filter so just wondering is it worth having the Autotech fuel pump internals fitted and still not sure about an intake? My plan was to get an s3 intercooler before hand but that didn't happen so figures may be down a bit. If I fit an s3 intercooler in the future and I'm on a stage 2+ map will I have to go back for a tweak or will it adjust accordingly? Another thing is my clutch. At the moment I get no slipping whatsoever even in a high gear and wot. I know its only a matter of time but any advice on clutch upgrade? I don't ever red line my car and only use it for fast road occasionally so would oem clutch be a better option? Cheers guys and I'll post my results and thoughts and sorry or so many questions as you've probably heard it all before but advice would be much appreciated. Cheers

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Offline AJP

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2017, 04:51:35 PM »
Back of to Rtech tomorrow for inlet and injector clean,and a Stage 2/2+ map. I've had my bcs tbe on for a while now and was just going for a clean and a tweak initially. My only other mod is a pipercross panel filter so just wondering is it worth having the Autotech fuel pump internals fitted and still not sure about an intake? My plan was to get an s3 intercooler before hand but that didn't happen so figures may be down a bit. If I fit an s3 intercooler in the future and I'm on a stage 2+ map will I have to go back for a tweak or will it adjust accordingly? Another thing is my clutch. At the moment I get no slipping whatsoever even in a high gear and wot. I know its only a matter of time but any advice on clutch upgrade? I don't ever red line my car and only use it for fast road occasionally so would oem clutch be a better option? Cheers guys and I'll post my results and thoughts and sorry or so many questions as you've probably heard it all before but advice would be much appreciated. Cheers

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My clutch started slipping as soon as I had the full BCS fitted, on Stage 1 R-Tech. That put it to 320lb/ft IIRC.

I then got the clutch replaced with a Helix Organic (good for 400lb/ft) before going Stage 2 R-Tech - no other hardware upgrades apart from a Pipercross panel, if you count that. That got me 345lb/ft. Then I got fuel cuts, as the standard pump couldn't even cope with Stage 2. I've since fitted a Loba pump to cure that, and it ran spot on. Then I fitted a Ramair intake, which gave the car a bit more at high revs, but it's a bit of a compromise in terms of fit and noise. I haven't bothered getting the tweak from 2 to 2+ that the Loba would theoretically allow. It's quick enough.

I wouldn't worry about an intake. An S3 intercooler would be money better spent - I do feel the car dialling the timing back a bit when things get hot.

I'd recommend budgeting for an uprated clutch. Stage 2+ R-Tech maps run well into the mid 300s and beyond, torque-wise (according to their dyno). It's only a matter of time a standard clutch starts slipping at those levels.

An uprated pump is a really underrated mod. It gave me loads more low-mid torque, coming onto boost. I would get an uprated pump in before the map. It makes sense. Niki will map the car depending on its specific mods, so you'll be fine without an uprated cooler for now, and it won't need to be mapped in later unless you're really chasing an extra couple of horses.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 04:57:56 PM by AJP »

Offline Craig Stanley

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2017, 08:04:52 PM »
Back of to Rtech tomorrow for inlet and injector clean,and a Stage 2/2+ map. I've had my bcs tbe on for a while now and was just going for a clean and a tweak initially. My only other mod is a pipercross panel filter so just wondering is it worth having the Autotech fuel pump internals fitted and still not sure about an intake? My plan was to get an s3 intercooler before hand but that didn't happen so figures may be down a bit. If I fit an s3 intercooler in the future and I'm on a stage 2+ map will I have to go back for a tweak or will it adjust accordingly? Another thing is my clutch. At the moment I get no slipping whatsoever even in a high gear and wot. I know its only a matter of time but any advice on clutch upgrade? I don't ever red line my car and only use it for fast road occasionally so would oem clutch be a better option? Cheers guys and I'll post my results and thoughts and sorry or so many questions as you've probably heard it all before but advice would be much appreciated. Cheers

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My clutch started slipping as soon as I had the full BCS fitted, on Stage 1 R-Tech. That put it to 320lb/ft IIRC.

I then got the clutch replaced with a Helix Organic (good for 400lb/ft) before going Stage 2 R-Tech - no other hardware upgrades apart from a Pipercross panel, if you count that. That got me 345lb/ft. Then I got fuel cuts, as the standard pump couldn't even cope with Stage 2. I've since fitted a Loba pump to cure that, and it ran spot on. Then I fitted a Ramair intake, which gave the car a bit more at high revs, but it's a bit of a compromise in terms of fit and noise. I haven't bothered getting the tweak from 2 to 2+ that the Loba would theoretically allow. It's quick enough.

I wouldn't worry about an intake. An S3 intercooler would be money better spent - I do feel the car dialling the timing back a bit when things get hot.

I'd recommend budgeting for an uprated clutch. Stage 2+ R-Tech maps run well into the mid 300s and beyond, torque-wise (according to their dyno). It's only a matter of time a standard clutch starts slipping at those levels.

An uprated pump is a really underrated mod. It gave me loads more low-mid torque, coming onto boost. I would get an uprated pump in before the map. It makes sense. Niki will map the car depending on its specific mods, so you'll be fine without an uprated cooler for now, and it won't need to be mapped in later unless you're really chasing an extra couple of horses.
Cheers bud. I'm gonna opt for the Autotech internals to be fitted prior to mapping I think. As I said my clutch doesn't slip at all at the moment even with the tbe. I'm hoping to get it to last until funds are readily available again and then I'll invest on a larger cooler. I'm really looking forward to my visit to Rtech again and I'm sure I'll come away happy again. Cheers

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Offline AJP

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2017, 08:08:54 PM »
Back of to Rtech tomorrow for inlet and injector clean,and a Stage 2/2+ map. I've had my bcs tbe on for a while now and was just going for a clean and a tweak initially. My only other mod is a pipercross panel filter so just wondering is it worth having the Autotech fuel pump internals fitted and still not sure about an intake? My plan was to get an s3 intercooler before hand but that didn't happen so figures may be down a bit. If I fit an s3 intercooler in the future and I'm on a stage 2+ map will I have to go back for a tweak or will it adjust accordingly? Another thing is my clutch. At the moment I get no slipping whatsoever even in a high gear and wot. I know its only a matter of time but any advice on clutch upgrade? I don't ever red line my car and only use it for fast road occasionally so would oem clutch be a better option? Cheers guys and I'll post my results and thoughts and sorry or so many questions as you've probably heard it all before but advice would be much appreciated. Cheers

Sent from my ZTE B2017G using Tapatalk
My clutch started slipping as soon as I had the full BCS fitted, on Stage 1 R-Tech. That put it to 320lb/ft IIRC.

I then got the clutch replaced with a Helix Organic (good for 400lb/ft) before going Stage 2 R-Tech - no other hardware upgrades apart from a Pipercross panel, if you count that. That got me 345lb/ft. Then I got fuel cuts, as the standard pump couldn't even cope with Stage 2. I've since fitted a Loba pump to cure that, and it ran spot on. Then I fitted a Ramair intake, which gave the car a bit more at high revs, but it's a bit of a compromise in terms of fit and noise. I haven't bothered getting the tweak from 2 to 2+ that the Loba would theoretically allow. It's quick enough.

I wouldn't worry about an intake. An S3 intercooler would be money better spent - I do feel the car dialling the timing back a bit when things get hot.

I'd recommend budgeting for an uprated clutch. Stage 2+ R-Tech maps run well into the mid 300s and beyond, torque-wise (according to their dyno). It's only a matter of time a standard clutch starts slipping at those levels.

An uprated pump is a really underrated mod. It gave me loads more low-mid torque, coming onto boost. I would get an uprated pump in before the map. It makes sense. Niki will map the car depending on its specific mods, so you'll be fine without an uprated cooler for now, and it won't need to be mapped in later unless you're really chasing an extra couple of horses.
Cheers bud. I'm gonna opt for the Autotech internals to be fitted prior to mapping I think. As I said my clutch doesn't slip at all at the moment even with the tbe. I'm hoping to get it to last until funds are readily available again and then I'll invest on a larger cooler. I'm really looking forward to my visit to Rtech again and I'm sure I'll come away happy again. Cheers

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Fingers crossed it doesn't slip on the rollers... It'll be a big jump in torque.

Offline Craig Stanley

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2017, 08:18:01 PM »
If it does I'm sure he'll just dial it back a bit. How come the ed30s can be mapped to 300bhp on a stage 1 and have no problem with their clutches . Are they different?

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« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 08:44:00 PM by Craig Stanley »

Offline AJP

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2017, 08:46:36 PM »
If it does I'm sure Nicky will just dial it back a bit. How come the ed30s can be mapped to 300bhp on a stage 1 and have no problem with their clutches . Are they different?

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Because it's torque that slips clutches rather than peak power.

A Stage 1 ed30 might 'only' make 300-310lb/ft peak torque, but the torque doesn't drop off a cliff at high revs like k03 cars, so the k04 ed30 makes higher peak power.

If a car makes 300lb/ft at 5252rpm, it'll also make 300bhp at 5252rpm.

K03 cars at Stage 2+ can indeed make 350lb/ft peak torque just like a 2+ k04, but by around 5000rpm or so it's tailed off massively, so they'll only make 280 odd bhp peak power.

Another consideration is that a k03 theoretically spools up quicker than a k04, so that 350lb/ft hits the clutch hard.

All that said, a 2+ k04 will kill clutches just as readily as a 2+ k03.

Talking about peak power, or peak torque, is only half the story. You need to look at the curves to see why things happen.

Offline Craig Stanley

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2017, 08:51:00 PM »
If it does I'm sure Nicky will just dial it back a bit. How come the ed30s can be mapped to 300bhp on a stage 1 and have no problem with their clutches . Are they different?

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Because it's torque that slips clutches rather than peak power.

A Stage 1 ed30 might 'only' make 300-310lb/ft peak torque, but the torque doesn't drop off a cliff at high revs like k03 cars, so the k04 ed30 makes higher peak power.

If a car makes 300lb/ft at 5252rpm, it'll also make 300bhp at 5252rpm.

K03 cars at Stage 2+ can indeed make 350lb/ft peak torque just like a 2+ k04, but by around 5000rpm or so it's tailed off massively, so they'll only make 280 odd bhp peak power.

Another consideration is that a k03 theoretically spools up quicker than a k04, so that 350lb/ft hits the clutch hard.

All that said, a 2+ k04 will kill clutches just as readily as a 2+ k03.

Talking about peak power, or peak torque, is only half the story. You need to look at the curves to see why things happen.
Sorry I'm not too clued up about the technical aspects but that cleared that up and now I know a bit more. Cheers

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Offline Craig Stanley

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2017, 08:55:01 PM »
I'm sure I read in this forum somewhere that Dan fr said an uprated clutch wasn't necessary on a k03 as an oem clutch could take anything a k03 could throw at it so when I need a new one as long as I'm not launching it all the time wouldn't an oem clutch and flywheel be ok?

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Offline AJP

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2017, 08:56:47 PM »
If it does I'm sure Nicky will just dial it back a bit. How come the ed30s can be mapped to 300bhp on a stage 1 and have no problem with their clutches . Are they different?

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Because it's torque that slips clutches rather than peak power.

A Stage 1 ed30 might 'only' make 300-310lb/ft peak torque, but the torque doesn't drop off a cliff at high revs like k03 cars, so the k04 ed30 makes higher peak power.

If a car makes 300lb/ft at 5252rpm, it'll also make 300bhp at 5252rpm.

K03 cars at Stage 2+ can indeed make 350lb/ft peak torque just like a 2+ k04, but by around 5000rpm or so it's tailed off massively, so they'll only make 280 odd bhp peak power.

Another consideration is that a k03 theoretically spools up quicker than a k04, so that 350lb/ft hits the clutch hard.

All that said, a 2+ k04 will kill clutches just as readily as a 2+ k03.

Talking about peak power, or peak torque, is only half the story. You need to look at the curves to see why things happen.
Sorry I'm not too clued up about the technical aspects but that cleared that up and now I know a bit more. Cheers

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No worries mate. It all makes a bit more sense once you've got a grip on the correlation between torque and power.

Anyway, good luck for the map, and let us know how you get on

Offline Craig Stanley

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2017, 08:59:12 PM »
If it does I'm sure Nicky will just dial it back a bit. How come the ed30s can be mapped to 300bhp on a stage 1 and have no problem with their clutches . Are they different?

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Because it's torque that slips clutches rather than peak power.

A Stage 1 ed30 might 'only' make 300-310lb/ft peak torque, but the torque doesn't drop off a cliff at high revs like k03 cars, so the k04 ed30 makes higher peak power.

If a car makes 300lb/ft at 5252rpm, it'll also make 300bhp at 5252rpm.

K03 cars at Stage 2+ can indeed make 350lb/ft peak torque just like a 2+ k04, but by around 5000rpm or so it's tailed off massively, so they'll only make 280 odd bhp peak power.

Another consideration is that a k03 theoretically spools up quicker than a k04, so that 350lb/ft hits the clutch hard.

All that said, a 2+ k04 will kill clutches just as readily as a 2+ k03.

Talking about peak power, or peak torque, is only half the story. You need to look at the curves to see why things happen.
Sorry I'm not too clued up about the technical aspects but that cleared that up and now I know a bit more. Cheers

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No worries mate. It all makes a bit more sense once you've got a grip on the correlation between torque and power.

Anyway, good luck for the map, and let us know how you get on
Thanks for your help and advice and will do.

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Offline AJP

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2017, 09:23:36 PM »
I'm sure I read in this forum somewhere that Dan fr said an uprated clutch wasn't necessary on a k03 as an oem clutch could take anything a k03 could throw at it so when I need a new one as long as I'm not launching it all the time wouldn't an oem clutch and flywheel be ok?

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Sorry, I missed this post. If Dan said that I'd dispute it, personally! Even a new OEM clutch would quickly get tired of 350+lb/ft, whether that's k03, k04 or whatever turbo makes the boost.

He might have been talking in terms of Stage 1, max. Once you start with Stage 2, and certainly with uprated pumps, the peak torque just gets too much for a standard clutch.

It gets expensive!

Offline Craig Stanley

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 05:54:57 PM »
I got 280bhp and 340ft/lb torque with no clutch slip! phew. Niki said it was one of the healthiest axx's he'd seen in a while. I'm more than happy with that and can't wait to go back with my hybrid next year :evil:

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Offline Craig Stanley

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 05:56:50 PM »
That'll do!

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Offline AJP

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 06:14:47 PM »
That'll do!

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Nice. Bet you can feel that extra torque coming onto boost!

I was thinking of a k03 hybrid myself a while ago, although I've got a few of the bits needed for a k04 sat in a box, so I'm undecided between the two.

The Beach Buggy Turbos k03 hybrids have the anti-surge wheel I think, so that would be one advantage over a normal k04 - not having to map around the surge. But the downside of a k03 setup is the location of the DV. With an aftermarket intake and enough boost you end up with a weird and annoying resonance, like a badly played flute. This is one thing that might make me go for a k04 instead, although a k03 hybrid with the standard airbox would be an option.

Which hybrid were you thinking of going with?

Online colesey

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Re: Rtech Stage 2/2+
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 07:01:52 PM »
These are some great results - is your car low mileage?

I look forward to someone (else) being a trailblazer to get some mapping sorted for a BBT k03 hybrid with the standard airbox!