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Author Topic: servicing help  (Read 5819 times)

Offline rich83

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Re: servicing help
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2018, 10:20:41 am »
I have been using millers nano 5w40 for years and so have hundreds of other TFSI owners.

Only positive comments and reviews.

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: servicing help
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2018, 08:14:15 pm »
millers nanodrive 5w40.
Got a link?


Its the goto oil for the UK tfsi guys bit pricy but good stuff,
I doubt that.


meets the VW standard and goes further.
I strongly doubt that.  Categorically no 5w40 can meet the VW FSI specification.


This is Recommended by a number of UK vag specialists
I really doubt that too - specifically for FSI engines.



http://r-techperformance.co.uk/2-0-tfsi-tuning/ Have a read you might learn something also
Nikki at rtech has probably forgotten more than most of us have ever known.
I am fully aware of R-Tech, and am happy to recommend them.  I have also met Nikki on quite a few occasions - and he is certainly very competent. However, his website for one hugely over-simplifies the differences between the 1.8 20vt and the 2.0 TFSI.  The differences are night and day, both in terms of hardware, and operation.  And it is those differences which create the requirement for a highly specialised engine oil.  There is NO 5w40 engine oil designed for use in any VW Group FSI engine.

Or are you really trying to state that R-Tech know more about the TFSI engine than the array of highly eminent professional engineers at VW and Audi - the ones who designed it, spent literally millions of hours on R&D, and who built it.


I take it you must not be from the UK then as is widely known about the oil by everyone i have meet who knows about the tfsi.
That is an incredibly arrogant statement!

What you meant to say is that you have a tiny circle of mates who are fan-boys for a specific oil!


You could try useing www.google.com i supplied you the first link but cant be bothered googleing for someone who is so arrogant in his/her replies
I am not arrogant.  I know my facts - especially concerning lubricants.  I was actually head-hunted by a major oil company for my technical knowledge.  I am also very well aware of Millers Oils.

I simply asked for a link for brevity - surely you have the information to hand to back up your claim?
Sean - Independant Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline GitFlog

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Re: servicing help
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2018, 09:30:13 pm »
You may know your stuff but they way you are in your comments shows how arrogant you are, i am not the only one to point this out so maybe do something about it.

the last few vw festivals i have been to the vast majority of tfsi owners use it and god knows how many people on this forum use it. I have used it in my mk4 18t and now my mk5 tfsi for years.

I only thought you might not be from the UK as you seam to know your stuff and this would might explain why you had a different view on oil because of different climates so not arrogant at all.

if you think that VW would use the absolute best oil  no matter how expensive and not use the oil from a company they are basically in bed with and paid to push and use the oil like all car company's do yeah it will meet their specs but this dosent mean other oils wont.

Not being a bellend costs nothing you can simply say i think your wrong and give your reason why and not be so arrogant like others have also said.
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: servicing help
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2018, 11:20:02 pm »
Apologies if I appear arrogant - that certainly isn't my intention.  Those who know me will no doubt vouch for my mannerisms, and that I mean no wrong.  I just get annoyed when some folks post information as de-facto correct, when I know otherwise.

I confess I haven't been to any recent festivals - a life changing illness knocked that on its head.  However, until just over 5 years ago, I was a very regular attendee at GTI International, a few other smaller VW festivals, general meets, and JKM dyno days.  At that time, the likes of Opie Oils were trying to peddle any 5w40 oil they could sell to Mk5 owners, and whilst 'un-informed' folks were happy to purchase it, those in the know stuck to the official VW recommended oils - even when stage 2 tuned.

There IS a genuine scenario where use of non-approved oils are used - and that would be when an engine is race tuned, and used for competition purposes.  The crucial difference that allows non-approved oils is two fold.  Firstly, they are used for very limited mileages (and don't have to trundle along in city driving or in sub-zero temperatures).  Secondly, the engines have constant access to professional technicians - who are able to strip down engines and clean as required.  A racing spec oil categorically has no use in a road car - even if it is 'tuned'.

I am very familiar with Millers Oils - though I don't follow them obsessively - and my illness has put much of my in-depth research on hold.  Hence why I asked for a link.  I have now found a link - https://www.opieoils.co.uk//p-115238-millers-oils-nanodrive-cfs-5w-40-nt-full-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx - and this simply confirms my suspicions.  Millers Oils are all talk and no trousers - they refuse to submit their oils for OEM standards testing (or they did, but it failed).  IF Millers Oils were as good as they claim to be, they would have armfuls of OEM approvals.  If it were as good as it claims to be, it would easily pass the VW502.00 standard - which is the VW Group petrol engine standard for turbo cars on fixed interval servicing.  Indeed, many of the old Duckhams oils (even semi-synthetic brews) were approved to VW502.00.

As to different climates on oil usage - that requirement is about 30 years out of date.  It pre-dated any usage of synthetic base stocks.  Part of the ACEA oil specifications (A3 and/or B3 and higher) require oils to stay 'in grade' - when used continuously at maximum engine revs and maximum load for a continuous 300 hours - at a minimum of 100degC.  The HTHS rating requires the same test, but at minimum 150degC.  The VW Group LongLife standards are based upon an ACEA A3/B4 rating, with an HTHS requirement, but crucially require max revs and max load for 650 hours.  The VW Group LongLife oil standards are a MASSIVE improvement over any of the best non-LL oil standards.

And so the above states why there is absolutely no need to 'adjust' oil viscosity to somehow match a specific climate.  The 5w30 viscosity as found in the VW504.00/507.00 oils have been extensively tested from sub-zero temperatures in the arctic, to impossibly hot temperatures in the middle east an Mexico.

Your comment on the Mk4 1.8 turbo is very telling.  That engine is a very different beast to the Mk5 TFSI units.  The 1.8 20vT is old school - designed to use the VW Group 502.00 oil standard - which was based around a 5w40 viscosity.  The oil pumps are different - the TFSI engine oil pump was specifically designed from the outset to use LongLife oils of lower viscosity.  I could go on and on over differences in design between the different engine generations, and their very differing oil requirements.

As to VW being 'in bed' with an oil company - well that is a simple fact of necessity throughout the entire motor industry.  VW are experts in designing and manufacturing cars, engines, transmissions, etc.  VW also specify profiles for the lubricants needed for their products.  VW, like all, will offer oil companies to tender for the creation of said lubricant - which is why Castrol has been their official and only partner for engine oil creation.  BMW also use only Castrol for engine oil development.  So are you really going to state that VW - who will have jointly invested multi-millions of pounds/euros with Castrol - somehow have doubts over the absolute suitability of the engine oils they both recommend AND approve?

Finally, VW Group oil standards, just like all automotive OEMs, freely publish their oil standards specifications (to commercially appropriate organisations, subject to confidentially agreements) - it is a legal requirement under European law!  That is why there are around 70 different oils from all over the world that have been tested by VW and approved to meet their VW504.00/507.00 standard.  The list of approved oils is regularly updated, and is freely available to professionally registered persons.  These lists often find their way onto the internet, so are very easy to double check any 'claims' made on oil bottles/containers.  Anyone from a Mercedes background will know of their Bevo portal - which anyone can access for their approved oils.

A black art - but sadly proliferated with snake oil purveyors.
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Offline GitFlog

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Re: servicing help
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2018, 12:46:08 am »
don worry i know you know your stuff, it was just the manner of the replies my apoligies for jumping down your throat about it. :happy2:

some  good information there just the nanodrive is VW 502 approved heres the link for Millers
https://www.millersoils-shop.co.uk/ee-longlife-5w40-engine-oil
there is also some cfs or something that people like to use in their tuned engines or if they track thier cars.

I totaly get what you mean by useing only vw approved oils and i would never knowingly use oil that didnt at least hit that target, i found with the BKR7EIX plugs and the millers oil my car runs so much better.
I had the best part of a year when i bought my car with a VW service just being done before i bought it and when i serviced it myself with the BKR7EIX & millers i found my car was much better off also i have never had to top up the oil since.

Tho as somone said the other day, when it comes to oil better to change it more freqently because it dosent matter the quality and cost if it sits in your engine for too long it still sh*t at the end of its life haha
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: servicing help
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2018, 05:32:47 pm »
don worry i know you know your stuff, it was just the manner of the replies my apoligies for jumping down your throat about it. :happy2:
No worries.  :smiley:


some  good information there just the nanodrive is VW 502 approved heres the link for Millers
https://www.millersoils-shop.co.uk/ee-longlife-5w40-engine-oil
Sadly, Millers are making fraudulent claims (as usual).  I have just downloaded the latest VW oil standards approvals, and it is NOT approved to 502.00, nor 505.01 (nor the Ford M2C917-A) as stated in the quoted link.  I can't upload the PDF doc from VW.  I can show proof that Millers are lieing about their claimed Mercedes-Benz approvals - the quoted link includes MB 229.31 and MB 229.51 - yet no Millers Oils appear on https://bevo.Mercedes-Benz.com/bevolisten/229.31_en.html, and the specific Millers EE Longlife 5w40 as quoted in the link does not appear on https://bevo.Mercedes-Benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html.

So if Millers Oils are happy to blatantly lie about easily proven claims of official approvals - what else are they lieing about?  How can anyone trust any of their claims?


Tho as somone said the other day, when it comes to oil better to change it more freqently because it dosent matter the quality and cost if it sits in your engine for too long it still sh*t at the end of its life haha
I absolutely agree about changing oil more frequently.  But crucially, use the correct oil.  Afterall, a genuinely approved VW LongLife III oil certified to meet 504.00/507.00 has been proven to last more than twice as long as the non-LongLife 502.00 oils.  And that means that Castrol Titanium LongLife III lasts more than twice as long as the above unproven Millers EE Longlife 5w40 - and out performs it too!  :wink:

I wrote a detailed rationale on the Golf GTI UK forum - http://www.GolfGTIforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=65779.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 05:35:27 pm by Teutonic_Tamer »
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Offline GitFlog

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Re: servicing help
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2018, 07:29:54 pm »
wow really i am surprised that they would lie so blatantly what utter twonks, i would love to have a copy or link to the vw list your talking about and if this is true i will defiantly be changing back to castrol edge or something. Even tho i have used it for years and had no problems and it has made a difference with running the fact that they lie about anything is cause enough to not use them.

Its a real shame as they have been fantastic. I would like to know if they have had it checked by VW and are full of it or if they haven't and are making a claim without testing with VW or maybe did their own testing.

dont get me wrong useing the right oil is a must, i didnt mean use any oil and change it loads more if its vw certified the cheaper stuff changed frequently will be better than the most expensive changed once every blue moon.
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: servicing help
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2018, 09:35:15 pm »
https://erWin.Volkswagen.de - create yourself a free account, and then you can download all of the VW Group engine oil approvals (bottom right on the erWin page).  You can download the whole shebang as a zip file, or individual pdfs of VW standards, or collectively by alphabetic letter.

I hope you understand why I get so heated and passionate over blatant bullsh!t claims from shady oil companies who are prepared to rape consumers with inferior, and unproven products.

I have also had HUGE disagreements with the way Opie Oils conduct their business - they blatantly sell wrong oils - yet they have direct access to one of a few industry specific online database (the most common being OATS) which gives categoric specific recommendations - and it NEVER lists any oil that does not have the appropriate approval.  Opie are simply after ripping off customers by selling products which they can make the most profit on.  Sadly, all it takes is for a few 'satisfied customers' who purchase non-approved oil from Opie - after being baffled by grossly extravagant claims - who then preach their praise on forums and club meets - and a potentially dangerous myth is converted into unsubstantiated praise and recommendation.

It is well-known within the lubricants industry that Castrol have the tightest product margins - because it is Castrol who invest millions of pounds/dollars/euros in research and development directly with OEM motor manufacturers.  Castrol are the sole lubricants partner for engine oils throughout the entire Volkswagen Group - and have been so for decades.  Volkswagen, Audi, etc print the Castrol name on their oil filler caps for one reason - trust!  Exxon (who own Mobil and Esso), Shell and Elf are the other major lubricants partners to OEMs, and enjoy similar levels of trust from motor manufacturers.  The likes of Millers and Comma have never invested a penny on R&D at major OEM level - and this is why their profit margins can be so huge - and therefore attractive to sell by the likes of Opie.

If anyone took a detailed look at the Mercedes-Benz lists, they will no doubt see many unfamiliar oil brands - some of whom are relative minnows of oil companies compare to say Castrol or Mobil - yet these relatively tiny oil companies are happy to pay the relatively small fee to have their oil tested by Mercedes to gain the necessary approval.  Why can't Millers Oils pay the same tiny fee to gain the proper certification?
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Offline GitFlog

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Re: servicing help
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2018, 10:45:30 pm »
I totally understand it pisses me off as well but i just have to remember who i need to direct my wrath at  :signLOL: like as you say if the company's are spreading misinformation they are to blame and not normal people like me an you.

I will defiantly have a look into it. I will also next time i get an email back from VW Hq raise this with them as i am sure they will be pissed at a company saying that VW have approved their oil when they haven't , i smell a law suit  :signLOL:
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