Author Topic: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .  (Read 10512 times)

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« on: September 01, 2010, 01:03:53 PM »
Well, I've finally got round to doing mine - and what a pleasant result.  Now with correctly set adjustable ARBs and properly restrained ponies - there is no need for a Quaife.

So, what did I do.  I wanted to keep it as 'OEM' as possible.  I bought new left and right genuine mounts, along with the two lower rear circular mounts (the stealer had replaced the rear dogbone under warranty a couple years back - though they lied, as they originally claimed to have replaced the main circular mounts!), and modifed them to a Teutonic_Tamer secret specifcation!  :booty:  :evilgrin:  I thoroughly de-greased, de-waxed, de-chalked the new mounts - then completely filled all voids with a special very high temperature black RTV silicone (don't use generic building silcone from the sheds, or it will go sloppy when the engine gets hot).  Then I left them for about a month for the silicone to thoroughly 'cure'.  A normal bead thickness of upto 10mm takes upto 7 days to fully cure, hence my four weeks.

When fitting time eventually came, it is simply a case of removing the front subframe (this will NOT affect the geometry if done correctly), cut out the original circular mounts (which actually weren't too shagged in the end - see later), and tried to press in my newly modified OEM ones.  What a firkin barstward.  Jeeeez, I don't think I've ever come across such a wank design.  After double checking the offical manuals, you need an expensive official special tool (which I aint got).  Further investigation revealed this tool is basically two tapered cylinders (along with some bars and clamps to attach it to the subframe).  You need to pre-bolt the two halfs of the mounts together, then press them into the tapered cylinders (to 'shrink' the outside diameter of the mounts), then press them into the subframe!  Onto the 'dog-n-bone' - firstly to a mate with his own garage who makes his own special tools (well handy chap) - nada, a couple of other mates who work for different fabricating engineering companies - not a hope in hell.  So to my local VAG indies - none had the tool, and none had done the job before.  Finally, the local official stealers.  What a disaster.  Both Skoda stealers had never done the job and didn't have the tool.  The Audi stealer didn't want to know (quote "we arn't allowed to take businees away from the VW garage" - full bladder > bow of ship stand > headwind > urinate  :fighting:).  VW garage didn't 'return my calls'!.  Seat garage, who also claim to be VAG all makes specialists - well what a palava.  "Yes sir, we can do these, we have done them before, and we do have the official specialist tool".  Sooooper dooooper, I replied, when can you do it for me?  "Or workshop is very booked up, it could be two or more weeks!"  OK, being the smart alec that is I, I told them I'd already removed the front subframe, and had already purchased said mounts, so would that be quicker?  They replied it might be, it might not - you can leave it with us, and we'll do the job as and when - but it could still be two or more weeks.  Now I'm getting everso mildly pi$$ed off.  Thinking that was my only way forward, I asked them to give me a quote on the price.  "We can't give you a price until we've seen what needs to be done" was their reply (hang on, I thought, they just admitted to having done some already . . . .).  So I said, surely you know roughly how long it will take, and you should also know your standard labour rates?  "Well, every job is different, and we have different labour rates".  The T_T was getting slightly more peed off.  Explaining again that the subframe was already off, that the old mounts had been removed, the housing cleaned, and new mounts were in the box ready to go in - I asked them again how long - FFS - I reckon it would have been easier to jerk off a mountain gorilla!!!!!!  Still they refused, and asked me what car it was off.  I asked them why, they said about different labour rates - I said clarify - they asked what make - I said VW Golf - they said "oh our VW labour rate is much higher than our Seat rate" - I said I'm NOT bringing in the whole car, just a subframe which is shared across ALL VWAG marques - they said they'd still charge me their top labour rate - I politely told them to copulate, and hung up!!!!!  These are allegedly a 'reputable' VAG specialist . . . .

Back to the drawing board.  Had another go at pressing them in myself at my mates workshop (the dude who makes his own tools), using an old cylinder liner with some tapered fillets - but no joy.  Mate and I well and truely shagged new mounts . . . .  Fires up interweb and realises VibraTechnics make a far better mount.  Further web work shows that JKM and VWR have said mounts.  Spoke to JKM just to confirm which type they had - only to find that someone has 'done a dirty' and stopped JKM from selling them anymore.  So off to VWR website, only to find VibraTechnics mounts re-branded as VWR (why? . . . . . why do you do this, VWR?).  So order duly placed with VWR, and postie has a pressy a few days later.

Before fitting any of my new mounts, having removed subframe, the engine was just being supported on the two left and right mounts.  I was honestly gobsmacked at how shagged those two mounts were.  If you pushed the sump forward, the whole engine & transmission would rock back and forth like a childs swing.  Seriously, I got about 6" of movement.  I know many others here have theorised that it is the lower rear mount which is probably the most important one for controlling the torque-reaction pitching of the engine/tranny - but I personally can vouch that is not the case.  Explained more later.

So duly fitted VibraTechnics VWR lower rear mount.  This is without doubt an excellently engineered product.  It is CONSIDERABLY easier to fit than VWs genuine offerings.  Bolted the subframe back in, torqued up all bolts etc, lowered the car back on its wheels, refitted everything - and gave it a try.  Fired up the engine from cold.  Noise/vibes wise in the cabin - to be honest - I really couldn't tell the difference.  And when warmed up, again no real difference.  Took it for a drive, gave it a spanking, and a few 'rapid' starts from rest.  Yes, there was some definate improvement in traction, and I could also sense the engine/tranny was moving less - but I could still feel a fair amount of movement.  Got back, lifted bonnet, tried 'blip test' - less movement than before, but still what I'd consider excessive movement.

So next day (or when I could be ar$ed - cant now remember), I fitted my T_T modifed new OEM left and right mounts.  Boy oh boy.  What a truely massive improvement.  Cold start up does give very slightly more noise and vibes - though this is categorically not detracting (remember, the GTI is Mrs Tamers daily drive).  SWMBO is completely happy with this issue.

How does it now drive?  Absolutely superbly.  No matter how hard I try, I get absolutely NO wheel hop or axle tramping.  The wheels will just spin, then grip - no tugging on the steering (which means no torque steer - an idication for a Quaife or similar).  It is massively better when powering v.hard out of corners, no matter how tight.  HUGE improvement.


On inspecting the old left and right mounts - they were well foooked.  When the bottom mount was disconnected, the engine was limper than Danny La Rues wrists.  They really are far to OTT in terms of 'comfort' as designed by VW.

Conclusion.  If you want to retain all the comfort and refinement of a daily driver, and eliminate the 'braile' communication from your engine/tranny, but want considerably better traction behavior - then fit a VibraTechics lower rear mount, and modify some new OEM mounts.


Oh, final comment to report - I too now hear the 'whine' from my DSG in 2nd gear - I think this was also reported by RedRobin.
Sean - Independant Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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07 Golf5 GTI 5dr (BWA), DSG, colour coded, Revo, WALK, WL ARBs, 235 PS2s, seat drawers, OEM tints, custom/hybrid engine mounts, Audi-esque soundproofing

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Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2010, 01:13:08 PM »
 :worthless:

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2010, 01:26:26 PM »
:worthless:
Yeah, I know - been v.busy, including trying to revive a dead 'puter and getting all my info off that.

Keep pestering me, and I'll try getting them up!  :ashamed:
Sean - Independant Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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~~ free official Golf V factory workshop manuals ~~

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2010, 01:28:11 PM »
Yeah, I know - been v.busy, including trying to revive a dead 'puter and getting all my info off that.

Keep pestering me, and I'll try getting them up!  :ashamed:

Just take out the HDD and put in an enclosure. Job done :happy2:

Now where are those pics  :innocent:

You did say keep pestering you  :P :evilgrin:

Offline Top Cat

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2010, 05:22:00 PM »
If these are the mounts i think you are talking about i remember them being almost half the price at JKM compared to the rebranded VWR ones.
It would be nice if someone from VWR would care to explain how they can justify the price being almost double, with there name on.

 :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting:

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2010, 05:22:48 PM »
It takes a long time to Write VWR perhaps  :laugh:

Offline Top Cat

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2010, 05:27:02 PM »
Makes my piss boil.  :smiley:

Offline MAT ED30

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2010, 06:25:41 PM »
its called running a business  :signLOL: and i think vwr had them made by the company and also helped with the design of them so maybe hold the wrights to em so cant be sold by any other dealer

Mods yes but way too many to stick in this little box

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2010, 09:08:58 PM »
Egzakerly TC - JKM would also like to know, as they've had to take it off their web site.  Not really creating an open and competative market place by their tactics.  Here - linky http://www.vibra-technics.co.uk/parts/part-details.asp?id=463.  Then 'let me Google that for you' - http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Vibra+Technics - and see just how many other reputable companies like to sell all the other Vibra Technics manufacturerd mounts.
Sean - Independant Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
------
07 Golf5 GTI 5dr (BWA), DSG, colour coded, Revo, WALK, WL ARBs, 235 PS2s, seat drawers, OEM tints, custom/hybrid engine mounts, Audi-esque soundproofing

~~ free official Golf V factory workshop manuals ~~

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2010, 09:17:03 PM »
its called running a business  :signLOL:
No it isn't.  It is blatantly shafting your competators by creating a blatant monopoly.


and i think vwr had them made by the company and also helped with the design of them so maybe hold the wrights to em so cant be sold by any other dealer
Nope, that is pure tosh - just like all VWRs similar claims.  Remember the sooper doooper VWR custom Quaife - BS as it is an identical Quaife to what anyother company sells.  Same for their VWR KW suspension - the springs they claim to be unique to VWR are basically stock springs available from KW - they just have a specific weight range, in exactly the same way that VW have a range of genuine springs for the GTI to suit differing ex-factory kerb weights (ckeck in ETKA - there are about 12 different springs for a GTI).

No, Vibra Technics are the 'experts' in their field - they did all the R&D, just like they do for their Ford or Vauxhall or whoever mounts.
Sean - Independant Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
------
07 Golf5 GTI 5dr (BWA), DSG, colour coded, Revo, WALK, WL ARBs, 235 PS2s, seat drawers, OEM tints, custom/hybrid engine mounts, Audi-esque soundproofing

~~ free official Golf V factory workshop manuals ~~

Offline MAT ED30

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2010, 09:32:39 PM »
If you don't like it give vwr a call and ask them as you might as well ask them instead of complaining about it

Mods yes but way too many to stick in this little box

Offline SteveP

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2010, 09:41:16 PM »
He has but they didn't call him back  :signLOL: :signLOL:

Offline MAT ED30

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2010, 09:43:13 PM »
He has but they didn't call him back  :signLOL: :signLOL:

They knew it was him then  :signLOL:  :popcornsoda:

Mods yes but way too many to stick in this little box

Offline SteveP

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2010, 09:44:37 PM »
Nope that the customer service standard from the boys and girls of MK  :laugh:

Offline MAT ED30

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Re: Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2010, 09:47:37 PM »
I always get in contact with them when my aircon blew in France one text and they called within  10 min  :confused:
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 09:49:13 PM by MAT ED30 »

Mods yes but way too many to stick in this little box