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Author Topic: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?  (Read 27045 times)

Offline dan930

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #105 on: October 31, 2014, 10:28:34 pm »
I've heard lots of great things about R-Tech and was planning on going there for my stage 2+ next year but now I've read Puddings comments my eyes have been opened.  :jumping:

As soon as you become successful people always want to try and talk sh*t, maybe there's lots of good reviews because Niki knows what he's doing? I've never heard anybody raving about Puddings customer service  :laugh:

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Who the F@@k is pudding?


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Offline pudding

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #106 on: November 04, 2014, 08:05:14 pm »
pmsl.

I normally refrain from such outbursts, but seriously, I respect R-Tech as a tuner but this guy seriously needs to calm down a bit, and stop wagging his tail and humping the table leg every time they are mentioned. 

I know of 2, maybe 3 highly skilled tuners, but they are not widely publicised because they don't hang out with the kids on facebook or come onto forums.  It's not all about punching numbers into the mapping software.   The engine is just an air pump and there's no way a K04 can pump enough air in to make a genuine 400hp.   The VV Race cars see 400ish from a hybrid K04 sure, but not a straight 04 off the shelf that's thrown onto 8P S3s and ED30s.   Take the engine out of the car and put it on a proper engine dynamometer and it will be nowhere near 400. 

Mapping is just manipulating the rail pressure to see 0.8 lambda in the meat of the boost and lambda 1 every where else.    Nowhere do I see boost pressures quoted, air mass figures, ignition timing at WOT, intake air temps etc etc to support these hp numbers thrown around. 

Normally you see 340ish hp and torque from 1.4 bar spike, held at 1.2 to the red.   Now 1.4 is pretty close to the ragged edge for a K04.   Either 400 is coming from seriously over spinning it - turning the intercooler into a nice interheater in the process, so WMI just cools it back to where it would be normally running less boost - or there's some pixie dust sprinkled on that engine.    60hp cannot come from fuel and timing adjustments.
Oh and TiV is just sales speak for flat spot removal.

I struggle with making a true linear 400hp from a hybrid, by linear I mean 400hp close to peak rpm,  they all struggle due to one huge factor common with the k04-064... the exhaust manifold which give high emps which contributes to knock and low post head effectiveness.   not many hybrids run a linear 400hp without the wmi in there,    Take the l04xx which I tuned on a 9.8:1 CR CDL s3, knock limited sub 400hp by 6500rpm, yes can pull out timing and run more boost which at 1.7bar is more heat and it dont work.   That ended at 412hp with wmi then went on to prove the point on the 1/4 mile by running a 11.9s..  L0400 I hit al knock wall at  385hp non wmi.     

TIV is the name I used to promote a unique method of tuning, on the tfsi med9 it was about removing the anti buck maps ARMD maps, which are also in play in the me7 1.8T maps which over the year all tuners missed out, we was the first to remove them and tune with a refined ignition output which opened all new methods to gain performance under all conditions, the main one was lower egts.    I started to use the term TIV mapping,  to say remove the timing based torque interventions,  I then shared this info with another tuner, you might know him?  Bill at badger5?  he then started to use the term TIV, which I had trademarked to stop him confusing people.

by the way 1.4bar peak is so 2008.....  its at 1.7bar @4400rpm now because its all about tuning the k04 like a small turbo and not trying to flow linear like a big turbo, tune it for the power band which is going to get used......  and by turning the inlet cam maps in to maps for performance and not to save the planet to meet strict emission laws there is a whole new avenue of power to unlock!!!

By reading your past posts on the forum it seems you dont understand the concepts of the tfsi gdi engine?  you question why is dont run stratified injection so what is the point??     the point is and the development was to build a high compression engine which can run hot lean clean and safe on the edge of the knock window.  With pre mixed combustion setups like the 20v 1.8T the engine would knock its tits off,   but they got around the knock at high cr by running homogeneous fuel injection which gives a perfect boundary layer, to aid cooling and emissions.    The tfsi can run happy lambd 1 with homogeneous lean injection.  Yes the mpg would be much better if  it was stratified lean burn setup.

I can see your point fully dude, but make your own mind up and not what others tell you. :happy2:    Any questions about tfsi or tfsi tuning please feel free to ask me I am more than willing to help everyone.

Thanks for that, I appreciate your time to explain.  I was sceptical about 400hp, probably because I am old school and my Edition 30 is by far the newest VW I've owned, so you are correct, my TFSI knowledge is not there yet.  I thought all the TFSI engines were stratified (isn't that what the S in TFSI stands for?) but obviously not!  I did wonder why I only saw 28mpg average from my ED30 when it was standard.  Only 2mpg more than my old R32! 

400hp also seemed improbable because I was running into low rail pressure problems at just 307hp.  I've since fitted the Loba pump, fresh injectors and fresh lift pump and I'll be heading back to the dyno for another shot.

Now that you've explained you can push the K04 to 1.7 bar and it's not held all the way to the redline, the numbers make more sense to me.   From a personal perspective, I'd not be happy pushing past 1.5 bar, just for reliability and to avoid fitting a clutch!   Mega EGTs from the stock cats and the turbo being so close to the exhaust valves also concerns me.  I take it binning the front cat and using a 3" DP alleviates this problem quite a lot?

Thanks for the TiV info.  I've not delved too deeply into Bosch tuning, I mainly do standalones and have done VR6 Turbos and R32s.  I'm a bit old school.....like Bill Brockbank, who I do know, sort of, from his DTA 1.8T tuning days.

So the BYD engine has variable intake cam phasing?  I read the VW self study PDF and they quote 42 deg of advance on the inlet, but how can that be when the cam phaser is on the exhaust cam?   On the EA888 engine, the phaser is on the intake cam where you'd expect it to be.  I therefore assumed the phaser on the BYD motor was just for internal EGR, along with -15 deg timing when cold.  Anyway, if it does have inlet phasing, happy days!

Yes knock is the killer.  I think the TFSI has a decent combustion chamber like the R32, so high timing isn't necessary.  I remember running 24 deg advance on my VR6 Turbo @ a bar of boost and 5500rpm because it has sh*t combustion chambers, so the fuel burns a lot slower.  How much more advance can you run with WMI in the TFSI engine?  I bet the TFSI runs mid to high teens timing at say, 90mph and 30% throttle?  That and lambda 1 is what gets the EGTs rocketing as well.  I'll do some data logging as I'm curious.  I'm sure more timing can be added in those load sites.




« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 08:09:52 pm by Pudding »


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Offline pudding

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #107 on: November 04, 2014, 08:14:27 pm »
I've heard lots of great things about R-Tech and was planning on going there for my stage 2+ next year but now I've read Puddings comments my eyes have been opened.  :jumping:

As soon as you become successful people always want to try and talk sh*t, maybe there's lots of good reviews because Niki knows what he's doing? I've never heard anybody raving about Puddings customer service  :laugh:

+2 BIGTIME
Who the F@@k is pudding?

I'm nobody.  Just an enthusiast with a big gob.

I've already apologised to GrayMK5GTI for my outburst, so you can put your pitchforks down now chaps.


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Offline Pikey Motorsports

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #108 on: November 04, 2014, 08:23:37 pm »
 :stupid:
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Offline Tazgti5

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #109 on: November 04, 2014, 08:39:54 pm »
:stupid:
More like u are :stupid:
The bloke is entitled to his own opinion

dansmith180

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #110 on: November 04, 2014, 08:56:59 pm »
:stupid:
More like u are :stupid:
The bloke is entitled to his own opinion
I think the  :stupid: is because it went from slating to thanking and is a bit confusing. Yes everyone has their own opinion but there's a way of putting yours across without offending people.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 08:59:54 pm by dansmith180 »

Offline Tazgti5

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #111 on: November 04, 2014, 09:04:01 pm »
:stupid:
More like u are :stupid:
The bloke is entitled to his own opinion
I think the  :stupid: is because it went from slating to thanking and is a bit confusing.

I back his corner,  he's Entitled to his opinion and if he has apologised so be it !
He is not stupid 

Offline rtechniki

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #112 on: November 04, 2014, 09:23:57 pm »
The inlet cam maps on the tfsi are basically to gain bets effective power without compromise to emissions or mpg across the whole rpm range, oem k04 byd cdl bwj inlet maps for cold start is linked with manifold flap and injection angle to super heat the cat without nasty emission to upset tree huggers. Thats the reason your ed30 will sound like its dragging lots of air on cold start then driving at part load for the first 60 seconds or so.

The cam map is preemptive demands when requesting load and not linked to actual load conditions.   (remember all the oem calibration is just around emission control not out right performance, its like runing 2200mb stock at .98 lambda is not same as when we are tuning them for power, so full demand at 2200mb a tuner would opt for .89-.88 to give preemptive heat management.  Tuning for performance gives more scope unlike oem calibration where the car is allowed to run into high egts then into a fuel dump, a method which a few tuners follow for some reason?)     Why not managed egt to stop them getting to hot to have to run in to protection all the time? but leave the protection there as a safe window.

cam retard aids the spooling under full load but not best power, the cam advance 28deg on oem maps is then used for best power but leads into higher egts the reason the oem map pulls back to 18deg top end rpm and load.    Taking the oem intake and cat out the situation changes how these maps act, the reason a stage2 mapped car running stock cam maps at part light load sound like the are sucking really strong and getting lots of air but that air flow you can hear can not be felt in your arse as power, it seems you have to wait for the boost to build up before you feel the power ( this makes sense??)  The reason for this is because the cam is retarded around -12deg.  Now move that -12deg into  a sweet spot which works better with the sports or decat then as soon as you hear the engine suck the air in you can also feel the power instantly..  Same with WOT demands low rpm 8deg power range 28deg and top end rpm back to 18deg, 1 issue across the whole rpm range at wot the dynamic compression ratio is change so timing maps are on a multi axis plain,  2 higher egts from the advance.    So again with the cam map at wot request and full load you want to keep this in the sweet spot for power, egt and dynamic cr (the dyn_cr moves the kr knock window)    Rewrite the cam maps for performance and away from the oem setup to meet the emission control.  Look at your ed30 cam map below. 

Most tuners just optimize the oem calibration and not rewrite like I do. Most tuners tune every car going and spend a few weeks on r&d to make it work so they can sell on, then they move on to the next ecu next car and so on.  How many tuners do you know who have spent the last 10 years dedicated to just me7 med9 ecu?  not many as they are now wanting to make there next big hit from the simos18 ecu and attack the mk7 r market for a few months until the next big thing/new ecu. For the last 10 years my working day and evenings have revolved around just me7 med9 study nothing more, I share my findings with many tuners for free and always help where I can.

If you know Bill b5 then you will know why I came up with TIV? He was having issues with a black TT Gt30, I went to Bill to live map it with my emulator but could not resolve the issue he was seeing on his base map which was from Vince.  I then spent around 4-5weeks trying to replicate the tiv issues... which "is" an issues in every 1.8T and 3.2 me7 ecu, I found the routine which the interventions come from and removed it which gave bags more performance across the the full rpm and load range and also opened up new avenues for tuning methods.  This info was passed on to Bill and other tuners for free.  TIV is the name I gave my full method of tuning with the ARMD switched off.   Other tuners tried to use the name TIV inc bill but they where just switching the ARMD off  and not the change of methods added, the reason TIV was added as intellectual property to R-tech

As for running out of fuel at 300hp?? Who was tuning your car?  plenty of fuel at 120bar on stock pump for 320+ yes you run out of fuel at 110bar.... if you forget to lift the pump maps.
As for 1.7bar being high and high egts...... what egts have you seen at 1.7bar??  because peak egt is not at peak boost on a k04 its peak rpm at all stages of tune?  a stock un-tuned tuned BYD will run greater egts at full load/rpm vs a stage2+ cars egt at its 1.7bar peak @ .80 lambda....   This issues is every following everyone else lol  One big name tuner maps to 1.4bar and makes it public then every other smaller non specialist tuner follows so they don't have debated on the forums..



600rpm                                                                                                             6500rpm
 28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0   10% load_rq
 28.0    28.0    28.0    23.0    18.0    13.0    13.0    13.0    13.0    13.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0
 24.0    13.0    3.0   -2.0   -7.0   -7.0   -7.0   -7.0   -7.0   -7.0    23.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0
 18.0   -2.0   -7.0   -9.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -7.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0
 18.0   -2.0   -7.0   -9.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -7.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0
 18.0    8.0    3.0    3.0   -2.0   -7.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -7.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0
 18.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    3.0   -2.0   -7.0   -7.0   -2.0    8.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0
 18.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    3.0    3.0    8.0    13.0    18.0    23.0    28.0    28.0    23.0    23.0
 18.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    13.0    18.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    18.0    18.0
 18.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    18.0    18.0
 18.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    18.0    18.0
 18.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    18.0    18.0  170% load_rq


Nick Gower
R-Tech Performance Tuning
Hinckley 01455 617233
Bespoke ECU Software for 1.8T & 2.0TFSI

Offline Tazgti5

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #113 on: November 04, 2014, 09:33:55 pm »
 :signLOL:

Offline Pikey Motorsports

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #114 on: November 04, 2014, 10:01:54 pm »
:stupid:
More like u are :stupid:
The bloke is entitled to his own opinion
I think the  :stupid: is because it went from slating to thanking and is a bit confusing.

I back his corner,  he's Entitled to his opinion and if he has apologised so be it !
He is not stupid

as above it went from slating to thanking

tazgti5 ive also seen you slating r-tech and for some reason getting pissed off and as you said getting sick to death of people blabbing on about r-tech when people recommend them  :stupid:, at the end of the day you or pudding dont really know nothing about tuning a 2.0 tfsi.. theres my opinion
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 10:22:59 pm by Pikey Motorsports »
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Offline MC71

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #115 on: November 04, 2014, 10:31:09 pm »
Niki?

The info and the way you've explained your methods in this thread is a great insight (and of great interest) into the way you tune and why you do certain things a certain way. You really should add all this info into the R-Tech Zone section as a sticky IMO..........you'll never need to answer another question again!

 :wink:
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Offline rich83

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #116 on: November 04, 2014, 10:55:12 pm »
Niki?

The info and the way you've explained your methods in this thread is a great insight (and of great interest) into the way you tune and why you do certain things a certain way. You really should add all this info into the R-Tech Zone section as a sticky IMO..........******you'll never need to answer another question again!*******

 :wink:


Ahahahahahahahahaha...... yeah right.  :grin:

Offline rich83

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #117 on: November 04, 2014, 10:56:32 pm »
:stupid:
More like u are :stupid:
The bloke is entitled to his own opinion
I think the  :stupid: is because it went from slating to thanking and is a bit confusing.

I back his corner,  he's Entitled to his opinion and if he has apologised so be it !
He is not stupid

as above it went from slating to thanking

tazgti5 ive also seen you slating r-tech and for some reason getting pissed off and as you said getting sick to death of people blabbing on about r-tech when people recommend them  :stupid:, at the end of the day you or pudding dont really know nothing about tuning a 2.0 tfsi.. theres my opinion


Guys... can we keep this thread on track and lets not let it turn into a slanging match please.


Thanks

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Offline MC71

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #118 on: November 04, 2014, 10:59:34 pm »
Niki?

The info and the way you've explained your methods in this thread is a great insight (and of great interest) into the way you tune and why you do certain things a certain way. You really should add all this info into the R-Tech Zone section as a sticky IMO..........******you'll never need to answer another question again!*******

 :wink:


Ahahahahahahahahaha...... yeah right.  :grin:

Fair point!  :signLOL:  :innocent:
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Offline akbarirfan

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Re: Who shall I choose to remap my GTI?
« Reply #119 on: November 05, 2014, 09:16:57 am »
600rpm                                                                                                             6500rpm
 28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0   10% load_rq
 28.0    28.0    28.0    23.0    18.0    13.0    13.0    13.0    13.0    13.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0
 24.0    13.0    3.0   -2.0   -7.0   -7.0   -7.0   -7.0   -7.0   -7.0    23.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0
 18.0   -2.0   -7.0   -9.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -7.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0
 18.0   -2.0   -7.0   -9.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -7.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0
 18.0    8.0    3.0    3.0   -2.0   -7.0   -12.0   -12.0   -12.0   -7.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0
 18.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    3.0   -2.0   -7.0   -7.0   -2.0    8.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0    28.0
 18.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    3.0    3.0    8.0    13.0    18.0    23.0    28.0    28.0    23.0    23.0
 18.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    13.0    18.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    18.0    18.0
 18.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    18.0    18.0
 18.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    18.0    18.0
 18.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    8.0    18.0    28.0    28.0    18.0    18.0  170% load_rq

Trying to decode the matrix here  :signLOL:

Hopefully will get a better understanding when I come up in 20 days  :laugh: