MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: RedRobin on October 31, 2008, 11:39:10 pm

Title: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on October 31, 2008, 11:39:10 pm
....

Going on JKM's Dyno-Dynamics rollers when my Revo Stage1 was installed, plotted smooth healthy curves with 236 bhp and just under 300 ft lbs. In late September Revo HQ loaded Stage2 and we went out on the road and everything was fine and dandy - A subtle but strong power. So, in early October about 20 of us met up for a social rolling road session at JKM and I was very surprised to plot less than 230 bhp with Stage2.

My VW dealer had spotted that my Milltek cat was deteriorating and so Milltek kindly replaced the whole downpipe and sportscat but a diagnostic session on JKM's dyno still showed only 228 bhp. Keith at JKM thought it was likely to be a boost leak because of data logging the boost request levels.

So today we had another session and Jim took the car apart as follows : -

Oil blow by leak on seals by Turbo Discharge to Intercooler. Inlet seals removed and cleaned and all ok in that area now.

Forge DV removed and checked. Seals renewed anyway and no faults found.

DV vacuum lines checked with vacuum gauge and all ok.

PCV valve checked and all ok. PCV valve blank-off used for testing - No differences to performance/boost response.

Air box removed and car run - No changes to performance/boost response.

As there are no apparent boost leaks at this stage JKM would like to mechanically inspect the turbocharger for any internal damage or potential cracks on wastegate housing etc. They are fairly confident it's the turbo but of course can't be 100% sure yet.

So, my options are : -

1) -  Inspect the turbo but have to hire a car while it's either sent away to a specialist if no damage is obvious. This would have a cost and would also probably not be financially viable to repair. 

2) - Buy a new K03 turbo (about £650) with 2-year warranty. BUT....That warranty would be ineffective because VW would claim that my car is too modified by its remap and exhaust.

3) - Buy a hardly used K03 which has done less than 4,000 miles and which JKM know to be in top notch condition. It was taken off for a K04 conversion. Cost £400. Swop turbo's in the same day.

4) - Spend several thousand pounds (£4K) on the K04 conversion and end up with around 300 bhp but all the potential problems that could bring to a stock GTI engine internals (not Ed30).

So I'm going for option #3 and I bet lots of you will say go for option #4 the K04 conversion!!

Meanwhile, I'm running around in stock map and it does feel rather dull by comparison, though of course it's not!

Initially it's easy to think that none of this would have happened if I hadn't modded my car, but as she's only down on the power she should be (closer to 260 bhp instead of today's 236 bhp), without being modded and going on the rollers etc, I might not even suspect anything was wrong and the situation become worse.

Apart from the obvious benefit of the quasi-religious experience of driving a fast modified car, I am convinced that running a modded car responsibly encourages far better care and maintenance.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Top Cat on October 31, 2008, 11:50:54 pm
Thats not good news Red.  :sad: I would have a good think about how long your going to keep the car for i say this only in relation to the fact if you go for the KO3 but then get drawn into going for the KO4 at a later date you no you cant resist and if you keep the car for any length of time you will be pinning for the bigger turbo at some stage. plus i thought the K04 worked well with our engines and produce more torque due to better compression. either way its not good it goes with the territory i suppose.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: vRStu on October 31, 2008, 11:59:19 pm
Bit of a blow that Robin.

When have you got her booked in for then?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 01, 2008, 12:21:27 am
....

Not booked in until Kate knows when JKM can get that 4k miles K03 from its owner.

JKM's basic K04 conversion (taking into account my existing mods) would be £4,000 incl vat and that doesn't match what I want - I actually don't want 300 neddies at my front wheels, even though I have a Quaife. I don't want the insurance hike either. I prefer my power lower down in the more legal speed range - I don't drive the German autobahns that often.

But isn't the Ed30 engine stronger and different from the GTI? Or doesn't it matter regarding a larger turbocharger?
 
:happy2:

Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Top Cat on November 01, 2008, 12:24:31 am
yes the ED30 does have stronger internals but the compression is better on ours. i believe.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 01, 2008, 12:25:34 am
....

But why is higher compression better?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Top Cat on November 01, 2008, 12:32:04 am
TT will have to answer that one all i can remember is on a recent rolling road a standard gti engine out performed the ed 30 engine on torque or had a flatter curve than the ed 30 engine when they both had the same K04.
At the end of the day though Red its getting them on the floor in my opinion 250 BHP is about the limit for front wheel drive motors.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 01, 2008, 12:36:57 am
....

That's exactly what I think - Driveability, getting the power down without traction issues and eating tyres.

I must go to bed - Gotta get up early to get to Weston's dyno session......... :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: WhiteGTI on November 01, 2008, 08:14:32 am
Now your making me nervous with my Stage 2 !!!!
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: vRStu on November 01, 2008, 08:39:43 am
In fairness the TFSi turbo's have been pretty reliable especially when compared to the TDi counterparts.

I think, assuming it emerges that this is the problem, this would be the first case I have heard of.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 01, 2008, 09:44:55 am
Robin, have you ever been on any other rollers?  Maybe JKM have had theirs recalibrated since your first run way back when.  I am aware that DD rollers are supposed to be the most tightly regulated, by the manufacturer - and if JKMs were being "over generous" when initially installed - a subsequent recalibration might have down-corrected their readings.  I simply mention this because you seem to be saying that the stage 2 "seems better" - so your butt-dyno is telling you the stage 2 is better, but the RR is telling you the opposite.

Engine oil - what brand, type and spec oil do you use?  And what is your oil consumption like?  Do you religiously keep it topped up to the max by adding small amounts frequently, or do you let the oil get fairly low and then add quite a lot?

Onto the specifics of oil in the turbo discharge pipe.  Firstly, you stated "Inlet seals removed and cleaned and all ok in that area now" - but do you mean the seals on the pipework, the seals on the turbine shaft, or do you mean the valve stem oil seals for the "poppet valves" in the cylinder head?

Regarding actually finding oil in the turbo discharge pipe, I think this is fairly common.  I found oil in mine, and inside the standard intercooler - but it wasnt much.  Maybe one or two tablespoons, which is fairly reasonable.  However, I wonder if the stock GTI intercooler has something to do with this?  I personally reckon the stock i/c is slightly restrictive, which can cause a slight backpressure on the inlet side of the turbo.  Since upgrading mine to the S3 cooler and twintercooler, I do notice a much more rapid rise in turbo boost - which prooves that the airflow through the inlet tract is much freer and less restrictive.  Maybe this is also having an effect on the way that the oil vapours from the crankcase ventilation system are not getting to the combustion chambers quick enough.  Think of having a hot shower in a closed bathroom - the shower will steam away, but if you have a mega powerful extractor fan immediately above the shower head, it will suck out all the steam.  However, if you have a clogged, weedy fan, the steam wont get sucked out, but will condense on your bathroom mirror, and then dribble off the bottom edge.

Onto a couple of other issues.  Did JKM plug in a VAG-COM to check for fault codes?  And did they carefully monitor the N75 cycle?

Regarding the actual replacement of the turbo - only you can decide which is the best way.  However, I would personally never recommend any second hand turbo, no matter how well the previous owner claimed to have looked after it.  You only need to recall some of the threads on the other GTI fourm (revving engines whilst stationary, "blipping" throttles, correct turbo cool down - I even think that you mis-understood about the cool-down procedure), and it simply showed a fundamental lack of knowledge on how to car for an engine in general, let alone the specific requirements of a turbo.  If I were forced to only take a 2nd hand turbo, then I would send it to a specialist turbo re-builder for a complete overhall and warranty.

If your original turbo is knackered, I would personally seek a specialist recon, or go for the genuine new VW part.  Yes, I understand your POV that the official VW 2 year warranty will probably be void - but it is the "peace of mind" from getting an OEM supplied part - you can pretty much expect an OEM new turbo to last a long while, but how long will a slightly cheaper second hand one last.  The labour charges will be the same, but if the 2nd hand one doesn't last, then someone will be paying the labour charges all over again.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 01, 2008, 09:51:27 am
yes the ED30 does have stronger internals but the compression is better on ours. i believe.

No, no, no, NOOOOO.  :scared:  :party:  :nerd:  :P  :sad:  :fighting:

The Edition 30 engine does NOT have stronger internals.  It has different internals, and only some.  The durability of the Ed30 engine is exactly the same as the standard GTI engine.

Only the Audi S3 engine has stronger, reinforced internals, along with a stronger cylinder block/crankcase.  :rolleye:

Yes, compression ratios are different, but that is for a specific reason, and nowt to do with any durability allowances.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 01, 2008, 10:00:45 am
....

But why is higher compression better?

The compression on the standard GTI is higher than the Ed30, and the simple reason is down to peak pressures in the combustion chamber - which will be nigh-on identical in both engines.

The reason the standard engine has a higher compression is because the turbo is smaller.  Smaller turbos simply mean better "low-down" power.  But the small turbo tends to make the engine run out of steam at higher revs - due to the fact that smaller turbos can flow a smaller volume of air - so the higher compression ratio compensates.

The Ed30 engine has a lower compression ratio, simply as a reverse reason over the standard engine.  The Ed30 has larger turbo.  This can flow a larger volume of air at higher revs, hence the lower compression is required as a kind of "safety net".  You could argue that VW should have kept the higher compression ratio of the standard GTI engine, and simply lowered the turbo boost - however, they know very well of a very simple word - "remap".  High turbo boost + big turbo + high compression ratio = much shorter engine life.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: T88OMM on November 01, 2008, 11:10:49 am
KO4 KO4 KO4  :mad: :jumpmove: That would be my decision but then again I can never get enough POWER!  :jumping: The second hand KO3 sounds like a viable option and a relatively inexpensive one at the same time. As you say you dont want 300 neddies going through your front wheels so this has gotta be the route to go down!  :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 01, 2008, 07:49:34 pm
Now your making me nervous with my Stage 2 !!!!

....I'm very confident it isn't down to Revo Stage2. Boost is set at 7, which isn't at all excessive. Also there are plenty people running Revo's Stage2 on the 2.0T FSI with very similar mods to mine (you for example!).

The boost graph shows that it's spiking at 1.2 bar and then dropping off badly from 2,400 revs.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 01, 2008, 08:00:17 pm
KO4 KO4 KO4  :mad: :jumpmove: That would be my decision but then again I can never get enough POWER!  :jumping: The second hand KO3 sounds like a viable option and a relatively inexpensive one at the same time. As you say you dont want 300 neddies going through your front wheels so this has gotta be the route to go down!  :happy2:

....Too many neddies for my taste and also £4,000!

But importantly, as TT has posted:
"High turbo boost + big turbo + high compression ratio = much shorter engine life" -

Which translates to:
"Higher boost level from the remap + K04 bigger turbo + high compression ratio (GTI, not Ed30) = much shorter engine life" - Or so it seems to me.


Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 01, 2008, 08:24:50 pm
Robin, have you ever been on any other rollers?  Maybe JKM have had theirs recalibrated since your first run way back when.  I am aware that DD rollers are supposed to be the most tightly regulated, by the manufacturer - and if JKMs were being "over generous" when initially installed - a subsequent recalibration might have down-corrected their readings.  I simply mention this because you seem to be saying that the stage 2 "seems better" - so your butt-dyno is telling you the stage 2 is better, but the RR is telling you the opposite.

....I went on some Dyno-Dynamic rollers at Weston Performance today but in Stock map (202.3 bhp) and with a boost graph which showed spike at 1.2 bar and bad drop off from 2,400 revs. Best to forget my butt-dyno!

Engine oil - what brand, type and spec oil do you use?  And what is your oil consumption like?  Do you religiously keep it topped up to the max by adding small amounts frequently, or do you let the oil get fairly low and then add quite a lot?

....Both!! Usually frequent top-ups but there have been a couple of low fills. VW approved Mobil from my dealer. Consumption was heavy for first few thousand miles but now not so often. I change my oil every 10,000 miles.

Onto the specifics of oil in the turbo discharge pipe.  Firstly, you stated "Inlet seals removed and cleaned and all ok in that area now" - but do you mean the seals on the pipework, the seals on the turbine shaft, or do you mean the valve stem oil seals for the "poppet valves" in the cylinder head?

....Seals on the pipework.

Regarding actually finding oil in the turbo discharge pipe, I think this is fairly common.  I found oil in mine, and inside the standard intercooler - but it wasnt much.  Maybe one or two tablespoons, which is fairly reasonable.  However, I wonder if the stock GTI intercooler has something to do with this?  I personally reckon the stock i/c is slightly restrictive, which can cause a slight backpressure on the inlet side of the turbo.  Since upgrading mine to the S3 cooler and twintercooler, I do notice a much more rapid rise in turbo boost - which prooves that the airflow through the inlet tract is much freer and less restrictive.  Maybe this is also having an effect on the way that the oil vapours from the crankcase ventilation system are not getting to the combustion chambers quick enough.  Think of having a hot shower in a closed bathroom - the shower will steam away, but if you have a mega powerful extractor fan immediately above the shower head, it will suck out all the steam.  However, if you have a clogged, weedy fan, the steam wont get sucked out, but will condense on your bathroom mirror, and then dribble off the bottom edge.

....Sounds like very good justification for a S3 intercooler! My priorities are (1) This turbo issue (2) Suspension due to KoniFSD issue (3) Powdercoat Monzas.
 
Onto a couple of other issues.  Did JKM plug in a VAG-COM to check for fault codes?  And did they carefully monitor the N75 cycle?

....Yes and no fault codes seen. Dunno about N75 cycle - What is that?

Regarding the actual replacement of the turbo - only you can decide which is the best way.  However, I would personally never recommend any second hand turbo, no matter how well the previous owner claimed to have looked after it.  You only need to recall some of the threads on the other GTI fourm (revving engines whilst stationary, "blipping" throttles, correct turbo cool down - I even think that you mis-understood about the cool-down procedure), and it simply showed a fundamental lack of knowledge on how to car for an engine in general, let alone the specific requirements of a turbo.  If I were forced to only take a 2nd hand turbo, then I would send it to a specialist turbo re-builder for a complete overhall and warranty.

If your original turbo is knackered, I would personally seek a specialist recon, or go for the genuine new VW part.  Yes, I understand your POV that the official VW 2 year warranty will probably be void - but it is the "peace of mind" from getting an OEM supplied part - you can pretty much expect an OEM new turbo to last a long while, but how long will a slightly cheaper second hand one last.  The labour charges will be the same, but if the 2nd hand one doesn't last, then someone will be paying the labour charges all over again.

....As usual, you make a very good point. If the second-hand K03 costs £400 + £200?? for overhaul = £600 approx and a new VW one costs £650, which to go for? I don't know if it's true but I've heard that VW sell reconditioned turbos.

Thanks as always for your time and valuable input  :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: WhiteGTI on November 01, 2008, 08:40:07 pm
Now your making me nervous with my Stage 2 !!!!

....I'm very confident it isn't down to Revo Stage2. Boost is set at 7, which isn't at all excessive. Also there are plenty people running Revo's Stage2 on the 2.0T FSI with very similar mods to mine (you for example!).

The boost graph shows that it's spiking at 1.2 bar and then dropping off badly from 2,400 revs.

True, but I have only been running mine for just over two weeks, and have rarely pushed the car (due to the weather)! I think my boost has been set to 6, as Keith at JKM noticed that fuel pressure was dropping, resulting in fuel cuts when the boost was set to 7. Interesting that your car was set (and ok) at 7!

Do you know of any other regular GTI's with stage 2 software other than yourself and I? I have seen a lot of Skoda's on their forum that have Revo Stage 2 software, and they seem to be ok.

Hope you get your troubles sorted Robin.

Chris.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: vRStu on November 01, 2008, 08:46:44 pm
By looking at the duty cycle of the N75 you can determine how hard your turbo is working to provide the requested pressure.

YOu can buy a turbo on an exchange basis from VW but I'm unsure of the pricing.  The part number will normally end with an X.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 01, 2008, 09:06:32 pm
....

Thanks, Stu - Keith showed me a column of numbers which showed that requested boost levels were down from 'normal'. He later mentioned 200 millibars off.

I think that the £650 price Kate gave me is as an exchange with VW. Otherwise about £1,000 I think but am not certain.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: cookiemonster on November 02, 2008, 09:36:08 am
hope you get it sorted Red! chin up mate!  :smiley:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Greeners on November 02, 2008, 09:39:48 am
Good on you Robin for staying so chipper about it, most after bad news like that would of parked it up on the drive and sulked, but you arrived in Birmingham smiling!  :wink:

I for one was glad you did!  :P
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: SteveP on November 02, 2008, 11:35:41 am
Good on you Robin for staying so chipper about it, most after bad news like that would of parked it up on the drive and sulked, but you arrived in Birmingham smiling!  :wink:

I for one was glad you did!  :P

Ditto  :happy2:

Hope you get it sorted soon matey.  :smiley:
 
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 02, 2008, 12:53:02 pm
Good on you Robin for staying so chipper about it, most after bad news like that would of parked it up on the drive and sulked, but you arrived in Birmingham smiling!  :wink:

I for one was glad you did!  :P

....Cheers, Green and Steve :happy2:. Sulking just doesn't solve any problems. Besides, I'm an optimist!

It was very useful to see a boost graph but I have to say that I am a bit put off by Weston's tendency to trash JKM's proposals and wanting me to come to them and pay £99/hr, especially without any specific ideas or any knowledge of the 2.0T FSI !! Greg, their rolling-road op was clearly very skilled indeed, but what makes him "the best in the country" according to Weston? Nah, I'm put off Weston regarding working on my car. That young mechanic was about to brute force rip off my engine cover before I asked you guys to help - Without even undoing the MAF and Carbonio!!!! They are Jap specialists with a good set of rollers - I'd be more confident in my VW dealers.

What's the betting that JKM already know that my turbo peaks and then drops badly. JKM's attitude is 'Don't worry, it's tricky but we'll sort it' whereas Weston's is 'It's "serious" but we want to help' (at £99/hr).

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FRP_Weston.jpg&hash=7c627c350b1877891386a6644c22481107c6ac58)

^Wow! Dig those dancin' shoes!! I didn't realise when I bought them as Winter driving shoes (they are Nike basketball) that they were quite so 'loud'!! They do have blue carbonfibre bits though. I shall start a new thread on them.


Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Greeners on November 02, 2008, 01:32:18 pm
I agree Robin, stick with what/who you know, I wouldn't let them near my car as they didn't even know how to get the engine cover off! As you say they are Jap specialists, stick to the VW guys  :wink:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 02, 2008, 11:12:35 pm
Robin, very interested to see you having simliar issues to what I think I have.

When I bought my car I went to Stage 2 + Milly immediately and loved it, went on the RR day at Awesome and results were 252bhp/280ft-lbs which I was happy with, I have since added the fuel pump and has Stage2+ installed and a further RR day then saw 234bhp/275ft-lbs which was not all that great (wasnt a good day for K03 cars).

The problems I noticed was my boost would never meet requested, it would hit 1.3bar even if the ECU was requesting more, my gut feeling is that its a turbo issue or possible N75 but with the location of this on the TFSI being a right PITA its not easy to change.

I have had all the hoses checked, PCV swapped, DV swapped from forge to stock to latest revision stock which made no difference.

When I get the car back I will be doing some logging to see if I narrow it down further.

As for your original questions, you can get recon turbo's from VW, I had a recon K04 on my LCR when that lost its oil feed and creamed the turbo.   As for which on the GTI - I would be tempted with a K04 - but for the price tag the KO3 would be the sensible option, like you say its powerful enough.

Do you have any logs from yours to see what its doing - boost / maf / n75 ?


Edit:  just looked back at my logs from when I had the car first remapped and it didnt boost above 1.3bar back then but still made the first results above (in April)
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 02, 2008, 11:41:43 pm
By looking at the duty cycle of the N75 you can determine how hard your turbo is working to provide the requested pressure.

YOu can buy a turbo on an exchange basis from VW but I'm unsure of the pricing.  The part number will normally end with an X.

I didnt think you could tell as it just gets to 99.6% from a remapped car..?

I have eventually got myself an S3 IC mate!  Not the DV relocation ...yet
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: bacillus on November 03, 2008, 12:00:41 am
So when are you going to install it neg?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 12:17:16 am
....

Very useful to be able to share this, neg. The problem sounds almost identical.

As posted earlier, you can see that JKM have done the same checks as you and having drawn a blank, they now want to check the turbo itself.

My gauge isn't really much help because the leak isn't major enough to overcome the ECU's efforts to request and there's sufficient pressure in the piping etc. The gauge is displaying the normal -22 in the vacuum side when idling and in Stock map it max's about +16ish and +21 psi in Stage2 map, but only when pushed instead of easily.

She spikes at about 1.2 bar and then drops dramatically. JKM have all the logs, not myself.

Topher told me that the K03 uses a similar housing to the Mk4 turbo which was known for hairline crack issues. Why the feck don't VW sort out known issues like that and the Monza white worm corrosion?

I'm at 56k miles, what's yours?

Obviously I'll keep this thread up to date.





Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 12:21:12 am
So when are you going to install it neg?

....Please don't take this in an unfriendly way, but can we keep this particular thread on topic because it's a problem solving thread (hopefully!).

And yes, I know I'm one of the worst for going off topic  :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 03, 2008, 09:33:49 am
now just a touch over 50k so very similar, reg date May 2005.  I was starting to wonder if its the earliers one's

Apart from the N75 the turbo is the only other thing left, but like you know its the biggest and most expensive bit - would hair line cracks be shown up with the old smoke test - where the feed white smoke down to show up any leaks ? Its then finding people with knowledge of this.  Like I said though since the last investigation I need to check the logs to see if the issue of the boost limit is still there.  In stock mode the logs are find, requested meet actual no problem - its just when the boost is increased.

Would be interested to see yours if you could get them..?

This might be worth a read - came across this when searching other various forums here (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3333932)

As for the IC - maybe next weekend, see what the weather is like.  I'll post up another thread when I do.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 12:12:42 pm
....

I've had a long chat with both Revo and JKM this morning and I feel totally confident in them both - We WILL solve this problem - It's just a matter of time.

Firstly, on Revo2 my Boost set at 7 is well under any max setting. Also my stock intercooler is not under any excessive demands whatsoever - Confirmed by JKM.

As I thought, JKM have checked the N75 logs and much much more, and all is ok. JKM have logs for over 200 2.0T FSI engines and I have every confidence in them and am booked in for Thursday to inspect and probably swop turbo's. I shalln't bother to spend extra money sending my turbo for testing by a specialist - Instead it may end up as a desk ornament!

Being without my car and hence the cost of hiring one adding to the cost of a turbo specialist reconditioning mine, is likely to be the same or more than the option I am taking, but with more inconvenience.

neg - Following how my problem gets solved, or whenever you like, you may find it helpful to contact JKM (Keith) 023 9263 9933  :happy2:

Oh, I had a read of that vortex thread you linked, but, frankly, I'm not inclined to muck about with such mods - It could create more problems imo!
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: joesgti on November 03, 2008, 12:17:51 pm
WOW new turbo, you dont hear people needing new ones of these everyday!!  :scared:

if it is the turbo id be keen to know what caused it!! probs excessive heat as thats the only thing that can screw a turbo up isnt it?? or too much boost, but that would have probs blown then. id look at gettin an i/c whilst the turbo is out  :smiley:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 12:58:48 pm
KO4 KO4 KO4  :mad: :jumpmove: That would be my decision but then again I can never get enough POWER!  :jumping: The second hand KO3 sounds like a viable option and a relatively inexpensive one at the same time. As you say you dont want 300 neddies going through your front wheels so this has gotta be the route to go down!  :happy2:

....Too many neddies for my taste and also £4,000!

But importantly, as TT has posted:
"High turbo boost + big turbo + high compression ratio = much shorter engine life" -

Which translates to:
"Higher boost level from the remap + K04 bigger turbo + high compression ratio (GTI, not Ed30) = much shorter engine life" - Or so it seems to me.

But if you did go for the larger K04 turbo, then don't crank up the boost as much on the remap.  :wink:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 03, 2008, 01:03:15 pm
I'm very interested of the outcome - turbo off doesnt sound great but as you say it looks like the next option unfortunately.

Like you know you can throw plently of money down the loo trying to find the solution - which is why I stopped for a while.  I will report back findings with mine at the weekend when its back.  I may do some stock logs on the loan car I have in the time being to get a comparison while I have one available!

So how much in total are you expecitng the turbo swap to be? including fitting etc.  Are they looking to swap any other bits - when I had the K04 replaced they also recommended swapping the oil feed unit and pipes - something to bear in mind but I am sure JKM know what they are doing.

Keep us (me) posted!
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 01:09:23 pm
But if you did go for the larger K04 turbo, then don't crank up the boost as much on the remap.  :wink:

....Okay. So I'll PM you with my bank details for the £4,000 you're extremely generously offering to send me  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 01:16:15 pm
Robin, have you ever been on any other rollers?  Maybe JKM have had theirs recalibrated since your first run way back when.  I am aware that DD rollers are supposed to be the most tightly regulated, by the manufacturer - and if JKMs were being "over generous" when initially installed - a subsequent recalibration might have down-corrected their readings.  I simply mention this because you seem to be saying that the stage 2 "seems better" - so your butt-dyno is telling you the stage 2 is better, but the RR is telling you the opposite.

....I went on some Dyno-Dynamic rollers at Weston Performance today but in Stock map (202.3 bhp) and with a boost graph which showed spike at 1.2 bar and bad drop off from 2,400 revs. Best to forget my butt-dyno!

And what was your stock readings on JKMs DD rollers?  :confused:

Engine oil - what brand, type and spec oil do you use?  And what is your oil consumption like?  Do you religiously keep it topped up to the max by adding small amounts frequently, or do you let the oil get fairly low and then add quite a lot?

....Both!! Usually frequent top-ups but there have been a couple of low fills. VW approved Mobil from my dealer. Consumption was heavy for first few thousand miles but now not so often. I change my oil every 10,000 miles.

Eeek.  Mobil oils are not really very good for VAG motors.  As with any US orginated oil, whilst it may say "fully synthetic" on the bottle, that simple statement breaches European guidelines.  Which is why I will always only ever recommend oils from European manufactures, such as Fuchs, Castrol, Motul, Total, Elf, Pentosyn, and the likes.

Regarding the oil change intervals, it might be worth changing every 5k miles or six months.  An extra oil change is much cheaper than the hassle of a new turbo!

Regarding actually finding oil in the turbo discharge pipe, I think this is fairly common.  I found oil in mine, and inside the standard intercooler - but it wasnt much.  Maybe one or two tablespoons, which is fairly reasonable.  However, I wonder if the stock GTI intercooler has something to do with this?  I personally reckon the stock i/c is slightly restrictive, which can cause a slight backpressure on the inlet side of the turbo.  Since upgrading mine to the S3 cooler and twintercooler, I do notice a much more rapid rise in turbo boost - which prooves that the airflow through the inlet tract is much freer and less restrictive.  Maybe this is also having an effect on the way that the oil vapours from the crankcase ventilation system are not getting to the combustion chambers quick enough.  Think of having a hot shower in a closed bathroom - the shower will steam away, but if you have a mega powerful extractor fan immediately above the shower head, it will suck out all the steam.  However, if you have a clogged, weedy fan, the steam wont get sucked out, but will condense on your bathroom mirror, and then dribble off the bottom edge.

....Sounds like very good justification for a S3 intercooler! My priorities are (1) This turbo issue (2) Suspension due to KoniFSD issue (3) Powdercoat Monzas.

But leaving 2 and 3 for a while wont in any way affect the performance or reliability of the engine.  By fitting a larger upgraded intercooler, and used with your existing remap - then the larger cooler should put less stress on the turbo, and actually help the turbo work a little better.

Onto a couple of other issues.  Did JKM plug in a VAG-COM to check for fault codes?  And did they carefully monitor the N75 cycle?

....Yes and no fault codes seen. Dunno about N75 cycle - What is that?

Answered earlier.  :smiley:

Regarding the actual replacement of the turbo - only you can decide which is the best way.  However, I would personally never recommend any second hand turbo, no matter how well the previous owner claimed to have looked after it.  You only need to recall some of the threads on the other GTI fourm (revving engines whilst stationary, "blipping" throttles, correct turbo cool down - I even think that you mis-understood about the cool-down procedure), and it simply showed a fundamental lack of knowledge on how to car for an engine in general, let alone the specific requirements of a turbo.  If I were forced to only take a 2nd hand turbo, then I would send it to a specialist turbo re-builder for a complete overhall and warranty.

If your original turbo is knackered, I would personally seek a specialist recon, or go for the genuine new VW part.  Yes, I understand your POV that the official VW 2 year warranty will probably be void - but it is the "peace of mind" from getting an OEM supplied part - you can pretty much expect an OEM new turbo to last a long while, but how long will a slightly cheaper second hand one last.  The labour charges will be the same, but if the 2nd hand one doesn't last, then someone will be paying the labour charges all over again.

....As usual, you make a very good point. If the second-hand K03 costs £400 + £200?? for overhaul = £600 approx and a new VW one costs £650, which to go for? I don't know if it's true but I've heard that VW sell reconditioned turbos.

Thanks as always for your time and valuable input  :happy2:

Yup, VW officially supply guaranteed reconditioned units, which include engines, starter motors, and tubos.  As others have stated, the part number will end in an "X" (meaning eXchange) for a reconditioned unit.  These parts are re-manufactured to the same identical tollerances and specs as brand new units.  Furthermore, in some instances, even if you order an exchanged component, you sometimes will still get a brand new item, but still pay the cheaper exchange price!  :wink:

Happy to help when I can.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 01:20:40 pm
The problems I noticed was my boost would never meet requested, it would hit 1.3bar even if the ECU was requesting more, my gut feeling is that its a turbo issue or possible N75 but with the location of this on the TFSI being a right PITA its not easy to change.

Where is the N75 valve on these?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 01:24:47 pm
would hair line cracks be shown up with the old smoke test - where the feed white smoke down to show up any leaks ?

It might, but it really isnt the best way for a turbo.  You really need to carry out "Non Destructive Testing" (known as NDT) - but using a specific set of NDT chemicals.  Anyone, with a bit of practice can use these, and the kits are available from www.Cromwell.co.uk
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 01:25:58 pm
if it is the turbo id be keen to know what caused it!! probs excessive heat as thats the only thing that can screw a turbo up isnt it?? or too much boost, but that would have probs blown then.

....But if the problem is solved without any obvious fault being visible in the turbo, how much would you be keen to pay to send it to a specialist to find out?

id look at gettin an i/c whilst the turbo is out  :smiley:

....Unecessary at this stage - As I posted earlier, the logs show absolutely no problems with the stock intercooler's performance.

Until later this week, it's speculation.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 03, 2008, 01:29:12 pm
The problems I noticed was my boost would never meet requested, it would hit 1.3bar even if the ECU was requesting more, my gut feeling is that its a turbo issue or possible N75 but with the location of this on the TFSI being a right PITA its not easy to change.

Where is the N75 valve on these?

Attached to the turbo more or less - if you stretch you knee's the wrong way and look down the back left you will 'just' see small pipes coming out from it.  


Going back to the K04 option, is this a direct bolt on option for the K03 engine like the 1.8T's - just a thought as there were quite a few options for direct bolt on replacements to the K03 a couple of years ago. Do you really need to go as far as new injectors etc etc if you dont want to extract everything from it...
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 03, 2008, 01:31:58 pm
....But if the problem is solved without any obvious fault being visible in the turbo, how much would you be keen to pay to send it to a specialist to find out?

after spending money to replace it, I doubt you would be that bothered if it fixed it.

Be useful to see any boost logs from yours to compare to mine before I go down this route!
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 01:35:39 pm
Also my stock intercooler is not under any excessive demands whatsoever - Confirmed by JKM.

And how have they done that?  :surprised:  :confused:

Unless JKM have physically removed the stock intercooler, carried out a visual inspection, carried out a pressure test, a leakage test, and a flow test - then JKM are on very thin ice to make such a claim.

I really have yet to find any evidence that the standard GTI cooler is up to the job on modified cars.  Yes, the standard GTI cooler, when used on a standard GTI, with a standard engine map, and standard exhaust, and standard air intake may be fine - I don't think your red beast could remotely be described as standard.  :wink:

I have often felt that you have been "over generous" with your praise of JKM.  However, on a certain other forum, had I have ever said this, then a certain other JKM "fan-boy" might have had me banned.

As I thought, JKM have checked the N75 logs and much much more, and all is ok. JKM have logs for over 200 2.0T FSI engines and I have every confidence in them and am booked in for Thursday to inspect and probably swop turbo's. I shalln't bother to spend extra money sending my turbo for testing by a specialist - Instead it may end up as a desk ornament!

I guess my "confidence" with JKM is less than your then Robin.  I would never recommend that anyone use a 2nd hand turbo, and am extremely surprised, and quite alarmed that JKM would do so.

Why don't you fone JKM and ask them to NDT the turbo housing before ordering a new or factory recon turbo.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 01:39:50 pm
WOW new turbo, you dont hear people needing new ones of these everyday!!  :scared:

Superchips customers would though!  :wink:  :evilgrin:  :evilgrin:  :evilgrin:  :evilgrin:

if it is the turbo id be keen to know what caused it!! probs excessive heat as thats the only thing that can screw a turbo up isnt it?? or too much boost, but that would have probs blown then. id look at gettin an i/c whilst the turbo is out  :smiley:

There can be many things which trash a turbo.  But to look at just the potential hairline cracking on the housings, then this (apart from manufacturing defects, or poor castings of the actual metal) is simply down to incorrect "thermodynamic cycling" - ie, abusing the turbo by causing it to heat up and/or cool down too quickly.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 01:43:20 pm
....But if the problem is solved without any obvious fault being visible in the turbo, how much would you be keen to pay to send it to a specialist to find out?

after spending money to replace it, I doubt you would be that bothered if it fixed it.

....Exactly!

Be useful to see any boost logs from yours to compare to mine before I go down this route!

....JKM have all the logs for my car. Their usual policy is to respect the confidentiality of the customer. However, perhaps I could give permission - I would need to speak to JKM.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 01:48:08 pm
if it is the turbo id be keen to know what caused it!! probs excessive heat as thats the only thing that can screw a turbo up isnt it?? or too much boost, but that would have probs blown then.

....But if the problem is solved without any obvious fault being visible in the turbo, how much would you be keen to pay to send it to a specialist to find out?

But surely, buy having it looked at by a specialist turbo engineer, they are very highly likely to be able to professionally report what damaged it in the first place.  If you know what caused the damage, you can then take steps to prevent the same happening again.

id look at gettin an i/c whilst the turbo is out  :smiley:

....Unecessary at this stage - As I posted earlier, the logs show absolutely no problems with the stock intercooler's performance.

Until later this week, it's speculation.

I agree it is speculation, because I strongly doubt that JKM have actually tested the standard intercooler correctly and thoroughly.

In my very humble, and very independent opinion, I would strongly recommend upgrading the stock intercooler.  With all your mods, the standard cooler is just placing un-necessary restrictions and loadings on the turbo.  Why do you think that the S3 cooler is so highly rated?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 01:52:27 pm
The problems I noticed was my boost would never meet requested, it would hit 1.3bar even if the ECU was requesting more, my gut feeling is that its a turbo issue or possible N75 but with the location of this on the TFSI being a right PITA its not easy to change.

Where is the N75 valve on these?

Attached to the turbo more or less - if you stretch you knee's the wrong way and look down the back left you will 'just' see small pipes coming out from it.  

So it is actually bolted into the turbo housing?  I understood that they could also be remotely mounted - or maybe I misunderstood.  :confused:

Going back to the K04 option, is this a direct bolt on option for the K03 engine like the 1.8T's - just a thought as there were quite a few options for direct bolt on replacements to the K03 a couple of years ago. Do you really need to go as far as new injectors etc etc if you dont want to extract everything from it...

Well, the turbo is actually integrated into the exhaust manifold - so in simple terms, it would just mean swapping the turbo/manifold assembly, along with the downpipe.  However, the K04 only supports the remote mounted cut off valve, so this would need to be done too.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 03, 2008, 01:55:08 pm
Robin, Just spoke to Keith (very helpful) and it all sounds very similar - we could be onto something here  :confused:

Sounds like they will inspect the turbo in-house and if there is a problem hopefully they will pick up on it.

I'll wait with interest  :scared:

KO4 would need relocation of DV + new discharge pipe but theoretically it should work as long as you limit the boost, but then you wouldn't be running K04 specific software so it wont try and hold the boost for that long anyway.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 01:55:56 pm
Be useful to see any boost logs from yours to compare to mine before I go down this route!

....JKM have all the logs for my car. Their usual policy is to respect the confidentiality of the customer. However, perhaps I could give permission - I would need to speak to JKM.

The boost logs are your property.  They relate to your vehicle, and you (presumably) paid for JKM to work on your car - so they are legally obliged to hand over any paperwork, old bits, etc.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 03, 2008, 02:01:14 pm
So it is actually bolted into the turbo housing?  I understood that they could also be remotely mounted - or maybe I misunderstood.  :confused:

Not heard about relocating it - and not sure if its actually 'bolted' on but its right fiddly to get at, you can get your hand on it but not see what you are doing or have any room down there.  From underneath must be better but probably still quite fiddly as its pretty high up.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 02:14:50 pm
Be useful to see any boost logs from yours to compare to mine before I go down this route!

....JKM have all the logs for my car. Their usual policy is to respect the confidentiality of the customer. However, perhaps I could give permission - I would need to speak to JKM.

The boost logs are your property.  They relate to your vehicle, and you (presumably) paid for JKM to work on your car - so they are legally obliged to hand over any paperwork, old bits, etc.

....Yes, I'm only saying that they won't give my log info to a third party such as yourself or neg without my permission - They are respecting MY confidentiality - Sorry if my post wasn't clear on that.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: joesgti on November 03, 2008, 02:23:33 pm
well i cant recomend the s3 cooler enough!!! turbo spools up ALOT quicker and holds boost alot better higher up in the revrange!

its one of the only mods that i could feel the difference when driving!  :jumpmove:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 02:40:19 pm
well i cant recomend the s3 cooler enough!!! turbo spools up ALOT quicker and holds boost alot better higher up in the revrange!

its one of the only mods that i could feel the difference when driving!  :jumpmove:

Yup, I'm with you on that - though TBF, it was obviously difficult for me to tell weather it was the S3 or Forge  :wink:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: bacillus on November 03, 2008, 03:12:29 pm

 it was obviously difficult for me to tell weather it was the S3 or Forge  :wink:
Or both.   :smiley:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 03:29:28 pm
well i cant recomend the s3 cooler enough!!! turbo spools up ALOT quicker and holds boost alot better higher up in the revrange!

its one of the only mods that i could feel the difference when driving!  :jumpmove:

....I'm not saying that the S3 i/c isn't an excellent mod, but only that JKM's logs (no, they haven't removed the stock i/c for tests - TT please note) are not indicating any issues with my stock i/c.

To feel the difference on road rather than track, Joe, I reckon you must be driving your car like you stole her - But I suggest that without the experience of driving one myself.

Whereas JKM would of course like the extra business of installing a S3 i/c, all their logging etc on my car suggests that unless I was doing trackdays, my stock i/c is doing its job, and though a great mod, it's not one I need at present.

:happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: joesgti on November 03, 2008, 03:34:37 pm
well i cant recomend the s3 cooler enough!!! turbo spools up ALOT quicker and holds boost alot better higher up in the revrange!

its one of the only mods that i could feel the difference when driving!  :jumpmove:

....I'm not saying that the S3 i/c isn't an excellent mod, but only that JKM's logs (no, they haven't removed the stock i/c for tests - TT please note) are not indicating any issues with my stock i/c.

To feel the difference on road rather than track, Joe, I reckon you must be driving your car like you stole her - But I suggest that without the experience of driving one myself.

Whereas JKM would of course like the extra business of installing a S3 i/c, all their logging etc on my car suggests that unless I was doing trackdays, my stock i/c is doing its job, and though a great mod, it's not one I need at present.

:happy2:

trust me, you would know the difference. the spool up was alot slower on my car and a slight lag, now no lag whatsoever. have you got any graphs that you could post of your car on the RR? i can then compare this to some of my older ones!  :smiley:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 03:39:14 pm
if it is the turbo id be keen to know what caused it!!

....But if the problem is solved without any obvious fault being visible in the turbo, how much would you be keen to pay to send it to a specialist to find out?

But surely, buy having it looked at by a specialist turbo engineer, they are very highly likely to be able to professionally report what damaged it in the first place.  If you know what caused the damage, you can then take steps to prevent the same happening again.

....As both you and Joe are saying, I can see the wisdom in your words. I will investigate the costs of so doing but I expect that you appreciate that even with deep pockets, there's a level of cost which makes it not worthwhile. However, I can also see how valuable such info would also be for others, including yourselves!

First, we have to actually see what we find with the turbo on Friday.

In my very humble, and very independent opinion, I would strongly recommend upgrading the stock intercooler.  With all your mods, the standard cooler is just placing un-necessary restrictions and loadings on the turbo.  Why do you think that the S3 cooler is so highly rated?

....Again, obviously first rate advice. I may very well do the S3 i/c mod but not yet.

:happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: joesgti on November 03, 2008, 03:43:06 pm
what about the graphs  :smiley:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 03:46:11 pm
trust me, you would know the difference. the spool up was alot slower on my car and a slight lag, now no lag whatsoever. have you got any graphs that you could post of your car on the RR? i can then compare this to some of my older ones!  :smiley:

....Surely you should not have experienced any noticeable lag before the S3 i/c was installed. Butt dyno? Placebo?

No time to sort out graphs, pics of, uploading etc right now - I'll post an overview when this issue is solved - I have other priorities right now.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 03:51:19 pm
KO4 would need relocation of DV + new discharge pipe but theoretically it should work as long as you limit the boost, but then you wouldn't be running K04 specific software so it wont try and hold the boost for that long anyway.

....Surely fitting a K04 without the rest of the package would result in turbo lag. It's swings vs roundabouts (assuming you know the expression). Need I remind anyone that the whole package costs £4K.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: joesgti on November 03, 2008, 03:53:00 pm
trust me, you would know the difference. the spool up was alot slower on my car and a slight lag, now no lag whatsoever. have you got any graphs that you could post of your car on the RR? i can then compare this to some of my older ones!  :smiley:

....Surely you should not have experienced any noticeable lag before the S3 i/c was installed. Butt dyno? Placebo?

No time to sort out graphs, pics of, uploading etc right now - I'll post an overview when this issue is solved - I have other priorities right now.

not so much lag, just took longer to spool, so i guess this is lag?  :rolleye:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 04:15:24 pm
well i cant recomend the s3 cooler enough!!! turbo spools up ALOT quicker and holds boost alot better higher up in the revrange!

its one of the only mods that i could feel the difference when driving!  :jumpmove:

....I'm not saying that the S3 i/c isn't an excellent mod, but only that JKM's logs (no, they haven't removed the stock i/c for tests - TT please note) are not indicating any issues with my stock i/c.

To feel the difference on road rather than track, Joe, I reckon you must be driving your car like you stole her - But I suggest that without the experience of driving one myself.

Whereas JKM would of course like the extra business of installing a S3 i/c, all their logging etc on my car suggests that unless I was doing trackdays, my stock i/c is doing its job, and though a great mod, it's not one I need at present.

:happy2:

But I am stating that JKM are NOT testing your i/c correctly.

The correct way to "log" an intercooler is NOT on an RR, but out driving the car, capturing data on the fly.  The simple fact that JKM have not even carried out basic testing on the i/c, yet also state that your stock i/c is perfectly fine is completey beyond me!

Their approach is completely out of order, because JKM have failed on many levels for correctly testing the i/c - but what do I know.  My "knowledge" has only been proven in an English court of Law as being a legal "Expert" standard, even against the world's largest insurer (Lloyds of London, High Court Division).  But if you are happy to be fobbed off by JKM, then good look to you!  :sad:

And just for the record, you do NOT need to be "driving like you stole it" to notice the difference of the S3 cooler.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 04:19:59 pm
KO4 would need relocation of DV + new discharge pipe but theoretically it should work as long as you limit the boost, but then you wouldn't be running K04 specific software so it wont try and hold the boost for that long anyway.

....Surely fitting a K04 without the rest of the package would result in turbo lag. It's swings vs roundabouts (assuming you know the expression).

On a standard car, maybe.  Comparing a standard K03 to a standard K04, then the K03 can provide peak boost from about 1750rpms, whereas the K04 peaks from around 2250rpms.  But with a remap, you should be able to negate some of the lag.

Need I remind anyone that the whole package costs £4K.

Where does the £4k come from?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 04:50:07 pm
....

Steady on, TT - AFAIK, JKM HAVE been out on the road capturing data on the fly - They usually do. They really are much more thorough, and experienced with this engine, than you seem prepared to accept. Just because I personally don't know or understand all the detail doesn't mean they have been remiss.

Re my comment to Joe about driving like you stole it - I did also say that I hadn't ever driven a S3 i/c equipped GTI and therefore was saying I had no back-up for my comment.

Let's not let this degenerate into any mud slinging. At least, not at this stage please.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 05:08:57 pm
Sorry Robin, I'm not trying to start a slanging match or anything.  :smiley: 

But I feel like sh!t today, and am trying to offer my advice, and perhaps I misunderstood what you said about JKM.  However, I do feel they are wrong to state that a standard GTI cooler is satisfactory when compared against the level of modifications of your own red beast.

Peace.  :smiley:  :grouphug:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 05:21:12 pm
Sorry Robin, I'm not trying to start a slanging match or anything.  :smiley: 

But I feel like sh!t today, and am trying to offer my advice, and perhaps I misunderstood what you said about JKM.  However, I do feel they are wrong to state that a standard GTI cooler is satisfactory when compared against the level of modifications of your own red beast.

Peace.  :smiley:  :grouphug:

....Your advice is ALWAYS appreciated whether you feel like sh!t or whether it's controversial :happy2:

JKM aren't exactly saying that a standard GTI cooler is satisfactory but more that they don't believe it to be the 'cause' (probably not quite the right word) of my boost problem. For what it's worth, Revo independently think the same. Both (independently) would recommend the S3 cooler as an excellent and helpful mod, and, as I have said, I will probably get one in the future. But now, it wouldn't appear to solve my problem.

Get well soon, mate! :smiley:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 03, 2008, 05:39:29 pm
I agree with what RR is saying, although the S3 would be a great benefit he wants to sort out the boost issue in hand and I dont think upgrading the IC is going to prove anything - as I (if I get time) will demonstrate this weekend ;)

TBH I didn't really want to get one just yet but though I would as they were at a decent price.

As for £4k, I am starting to wonder.. if I were to replace the turbo, I could go for the K04, discharge pipe and relocation of the DV - parts coming to (complete estimate) £1k or so - then continue to run on the Stage2+ K03 map with (hopefully) no downfalls except maybe not getting all from the K04 turbo - then if I wanted to go a stage further I could swap the injectors and get the upgraded K04 map.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 03, 2008, 05:42:38 pm
Looks like the N75 is mounted to the charger

see here (http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/Misc/Misc_Performance_pictures/TFSI-images/JKM%20K04%20pics/K04_side.jpg)

Edit: changed to a link to save space  :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Hurdy on November 03, 2008, 05:54:31 pm
Robin, sorry to hear it doesn't seem to be a simple fix :sad:

Draw out the positive and bung in the K04 :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 06:02:57 pm
KO4 would need relocation of DV + new discharge pipe but theoretically it should work as long as you limit the boost, but then you wouldn't be running K04 specific software so it wont try and hold the boost for that long anyway.

....Surely fitting a K04 without the rest of the package would result in turbo lag. It's swings vs roundabouts (assuming you know the expression).

On a standard car, maybe.  Comparing a standard K03 to a standard K04, then the K03 can provide peak boost from about 1750rpms, whereas the K04 peaks from around 2250rpms.  But with a remap, you should be able to negate some of the lag.

....As I think any of us performance freaks here would be likely to do, I have considered the K04 option but it doesn't make sense unless I take the whole package of injectors, fuel pump, S3 intercooler, Revo2+ remap etc. Most of these components are VAG oem but the result on my GTI would be about 300 neddies at my front wheels. Yes, I love driving and I love the opportunity to drive very enthusiastically when I consider it safe, but I'm 61yo and not 18 and my balance of power, suspension, brakes, etc with Revo2 (probably around 250 bhp) feels perfect for me, personally. It's a feckin sweet ride!!

As Kev at Revo says, you have to draw your own line in the sand and decide what is enough. Otherwise it's never ending.

Coincidentally, Kev also knows the car my replacement turbo has come off and said that the owner had decided to do the K04 conversion immediately. Kev, like JKM, and TT here, would very strongly advise against a used turbo but this one is virtually only run-in, and knowing the car, can be recommended. The risk is very small indeed.

Need I remind anyone that the whole package costs £4K.

Where does the £4k come from?

....It's the "Basic K04 Upgrade" - http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/jkmtfsi-K04-upgrade.htm (http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/jkmtfsi-K04-upgrade.htm)

Actually, because I already have Revo Stage2 I now realise it would cost me £3,355 inc vat. So less than £4,000 - I was mistaken. But if my K03 turbo transplant is successful on Friday it will be likely to have cost me around £800 including previous diagnostics/checks etc. But the bottom line is that I really don't want 300 bhp or to spend about £3.5K + £1.5K suspension + Monza powdercoating = £5.5K on top of what (don't ask!!!!) I've already spent on my car. I have to draw the line somewhere.

Besides, I wanna upgrade my big desktop Mac system and buy my daughter a MacBook Pro laptop for Uni.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: 08micsta on November 03, 2008, 06:09:24 pm
Quote
Besides, I wanna upgrade my big desktop Mac system and buy my daughter a MacBook Pro laptop for Uni.

Seriously. When can I move in with you? lol
Just kidding. I must admit that I have full respect for you not going with the KO4 and 300 neddies. I know that if I could afford it I sure would.  :ashamed: :driver:

Mike
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 06:25:42 pm
Robin, sorry to hear it doesn't seem to be a simple fix :sad:

Draw out the positive and bung in the K04 :happy2:

....Hurdy!! WTF are YOU doing here! Feck Off! and stop being a bad influence! :grin: :laugh: :P
 
:happy2:

Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Hurdy on November 03, 2008, 07:26:34 pm
Robin, sorry to hear it doesn't seem to be a simple fix :sad:

Draw out the positive and bung in the K04 :happy2:

....Hurdy!! WTF are YOU doing here! Feck Off! and stop being a bad influence! :grin: :laugh: :P
 
:happy2:



Remember....Jesus says...MODIFY IT! :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 07:35:43 pm
....

Throwing my own stuff back at me, eh?

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FJesusSaysModify.jpg&hash=ff941dce9c73fffa1cafaaca1984ae15a2679abc)


I also don't want the insurance hike nor to eat so many tyres.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Hurdy on November 03, 2008, 07:51:37 pm
Look....You know you want to really! :driver: :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: 182_blue on November 03, 2008, 07:54:57 pm
Robin, sorry to hear it doesn't seem to be a simple fix :sad:

Draw out the positive and bung in the K04 :happy2:

....Hurdy!! WTF are YOU doing here! Feck Off! and stop being a bad influence! :grin: :laugh: :P
 
:happy2:



Remember....Jesus says...MODIFY IT! :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
speaking of this, where Phylis  :laugh:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: bacillus on November 03, 2008, 08:04:25 pm
speaking of this, where Phylis  :laugh:
He's probably off on a DD rolling road....    :grin:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 08:16:34 pm
....

No, you're wrong on this occasion - The negatives outweigh the positives - For me personally, you understand, and not for others.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Hurdy on November 03, 2008, 08:21:57 pm
....

No, you're wrong on this occasion - The negatives outweigh the positives - For me personally, you understand, and not for others.

Only trying a little baiting(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi156.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2Ffishing1.gif&hash=c3962c3053ad45f61e30891cb4377fa7fbfd462b)

Oh TC you need that smilie above :wink:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Top Cat on November 03, 2008, 09:53:40 pm
Leave the poor guy alone he comes on trying to find his turbo faults and every one beats him round the head with a KO4 mallet
Red do what suits you your the one with your arse on the seat.  :fighting:  :driver:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 10:11:19 pm
....

I was expecting the K04 mallet. I actually said to a friend (forgotten who!) that lots of people would be suggesting the K04 when I started this thread. I understand the reasoning and the quest for bhp, but....

:happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on November 03, 2008, 10:16:02 pm
....

I was expecting the K04 mallet. I actually said to a friend (forgotten who!) that lots of people would be suggesting the K04 when I started this thread. I understand the reasoning and the quest for bhp, but....

:happy2:

Like you said though, if you want low down driveablity, then the K03 is the much better option.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 03, 2008, 10:36:22 pm
....

Perfectly described, TT - "low down driveability" is highly desirable in the UK with all the feckin speed limits. Besides, even on the occasional forays into Europe, a well modded K03 GTI is quite respectable. In fact, a totally standard K03 GTI is respectable!

A good friend of mine drove his very highly modded 290 bhp Mk5 GTI (K04 and Quaife etc etc) to the Spanish GP and then found some nice mountain twisties etc. But he ate a set of front tyres in just a few weeks!!
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Hurdy on November 03, 2008, 11:08:33 pm
....

Perfectly described, TT - "low down driveability" is highly desirable in the UK with all the feckin speed limits. Besides, even on the occasional forays into Europe, a well modded K03 GTI is quite respectable.

A good friend of mine drove his very highly modded 290 bhp Mk5 GTI (K04 and Quaife etc etc) to the Spanish GP and then found some nice mountain twisties etc. But he ate a set of front tyres in just a few weeks!!

I know that feeling!

Only done 12k and soon coming up to the second wheel pair on the front. I don't consider myself to be particularly over exhuberant with the right foot all the time either :innocent:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 04, 2008, 09:15:58 am
I have now been running around for the last 10 days in a Standard GTI, covering over 750miles (hey its not mine ;) ) and I have to say the standard power is still nothing to be fobbed off - its so smooth and still quite nippy when you drive it well, I have to say its a shock when first going down to it but you get used to it and its plenty quick enough.

Manual is also fun for a while but missing the DSG and milltek now  :driver:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 04, 2008, 04:09:20 pm
....

I had a chat about my problem with my VW dealer today - Specifically the guy who is now on the Service desk but who still occasionally doubles as Mechanic and is now a Revo agent. In other words he's someone whose opinions I trust and someone who can 'take off his VW hat' and be unbiassed with me.

On the basis of everything I was able to tell him, he reckons it's probably the wastegate at fault, which of course is an integral part of the turbo.

After asking why I didn't consider a K04 but understanding my reasoning, he also said that a K03 turbo wouldn't be run in until about 8,000 miles [cue for TT to spit and splutter his disagreement] so the option I was taking was a good one, also taking into account hire car costs.

I'll keep this thread informed, neg, but I am out Friday night and with the Biali boys at APS all Saturday (I'm hoping!), so it may be well after the turbo investigation on Friday.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: NotNormal on November 04, 2008, 05:15:17 pm

After asking why I didn't consider a K04 but understanding my reasoning, he also said that a K03 turbo wouldn't be run in until about 8,000 miles [cue for TT to spit and splutter his disagreement] so the option I was taking was a good one, also taking into account hire car costs.


turbo's don't really have a running in milage

they aren't really a component that requires running in. Once a new turbo is fitted, primed with oil and then ran it'll perform the same from day one untill either the oil seals fail or the bearings fail.
The main variable that 'wears' on a turbo is the actuator.
The diaphrams can split or more commonly the springs wear - easy fix, buy a new actuator.

Not read through the many pages of your topic, but the actuator might be worth checking.

Regards

Tom
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 04, 2008, 05:28:05 pm
....

Thanks, Tom.

I think that the actuator is integrated in the K03/K04 turbo, or at least can't be inspected separately. I stand to be corrected.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 04, 2008, 05:38:11 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh241%2FblankitoZ%2Fgirls%2520and%2520dub%2Fl_8fcf9a82b7406410792d6e2c3417663f.jpg&hash=cdb3b811b6736030d0143df8bcbff7262da2bee1)

^ Every cloud has a silver lining! ^

So, you see, my turbo problem has its benefits  :love: :evilgrin:




[I wish!!]
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: NotNormal on November 04, 2008, 05:46:42 pm
....

Thanks, Tom.

I think that the actuator is integrated in the K03/K04 turbo, or at least can't be inspected separately. I stand to be corrected.

All actuators are revovable, it's the penny valve on the wastegate itself thats a turbo off inspection.

They might mean that theyhave to loosen off the turbo to get the actuator out due to it's location on the turbo. (note i've not seen it's placement on the turbo)

And your silver lining is a cute one  :happy2: lol (even if it is a picture)

Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: E30m3 on November 04, 2008, 06:14:03 pm
Soory to hear about that Robin, some really great info in this thread regarding the Gti engine !

Robin you did proabably have it done, but did you ever check for a cracked turbo pipe ? ( don't know where ? but i had a loss of performance on my KO3 and they found a cracked Turbo pipe and that was only due to them repairing my Gti after a headon accident ) 

They must have checked the air mass sensor aswell ?

Hopefully the transplant you do will sort it out  :smiley:

btw i think my ed30 has a loss of performance the dealer says there is nought wrong but i am adamant it does not pull as hard in the midrange ? :sad:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 04, 2008, 06:32:13 pm
....

Yep, all the turbo hoses (SAMCO and Neuspeed Charge and Discharge) etc etc have been thoroughly checked. also MAF, PCV, DV etc.

We'll be checking the turbo on Friday.

Some of these faults are tricky to find, especially if people don't agree (not the case with me).

Why not do a diagnostic dyno plot or/and go out with a laptop and check all the gobblygook stuff (with someone who knows what they are doing!).

Anyone reliable in your neck of the woods?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 04, 2008, 07:04:25 pm
VW tech document does show the turbo has to come off to inspect and test the wastegate - although there suppose to be a way of doing it on the car- just a slight space issue to deal with

Thanks Robin, as and when you can - enjoy the weekend first and foremost.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: sibart on November 04, 2008, 07:28:29 pm
Hi all,
I'm the doner of the turbo for Red's motor (hope all goes well). The K04 debate has raised some interesting opinions on Briskoda.net for sure.
My personal opinion is without doubt AMAZING. The drive you get i feel is superb, bearing in mind I do at least 1000 miles a week.
I'll be keeping my eyes open on the forum for any future meets to try and make a presence so some of you guys can take a test drive.
Hope you dont mind me crashing on here in my VRs.
And again, hope it all goes well Red.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 04, 2008, 07:36:17 pm
sibart, not wanting to drag the thread off topic too much but did you go for the full K04 upgrade package?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: sibart on November 04, 2008, 07:50:31 pm
sibart, not wanting to drag the thread off topic too much but did you go for the full K04 upgrade package?
Had the milltek fitted and stg1 Revo within 100 miles, then got talked into the K04 a short while after.
So, 3000 miles later the car went back down it was 'just' the K04, S3 I/C, injectors, intake and D/V relocate.
I think it adds up to the full upgrade mate
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 04, 2008, 08:19:37 pm
....

Hi sibart! This is a surprise! Did Kate point you in this direction?

Obviously I'm hoping we (JKM) find a fault in my existing turbo which is the reason for my boost loss, OR, that your turbo instantly solves my problem - the rest will merely be academic. I think we'll know as soon as it's fitted and my car gets data logged and dyno'd.

I know you are extremely happy with your K04 upgrade and I can well understand why. However, as I've written in some length in earlier posts in this thread, I personally don't want such FWD power.

Watch this space :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: sibart on November 04, 2008, 08:36:06 pm
....

Hi sibart! This is a surprise! Did Kate point you in this direction?

I know you are extremely happy with your K04 upgrade and I can well understand why. However, as I've written in some length in earlier posts in this thread, I personally don't want such FWD power.

: Yea she did, hope you dont mind. :happy2:

: Its very forgiving to drive, still on my second set of tyres, 30k miles and increasing  :grin:, like i said I'll try and catch up with you guys at a meet at sometime
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Top Cat on November 04, 2008, 09:50:04 pm
....

Hi sibart! This is a surprise! Did Kate point you in this direction?

I know you are extremely happy with your K04 upgrade and I can well understand why. However, as I've written in some length in earlier posts in this thread, I personally don't want such FWD power.

: Yea she did, hope you dont mind. :happy2:

: Its very forgiving to drive, still on my second set of tyres, 30k miles and increasing  :grin:, like i said I'll try and catch up with you guys at a meet at sometime

Wecome on here Sibart good input,
 Ps if you are that easily persuaded can i talk you into swapping back to a KO3 with me.  :wink:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 04, 2008, 10:11:55 pm
Wecome on here Sibart good input,
 Ps if you are that easily persuaded can i talk you into swapping back to a KO3 with me.  :wink:

....Does that mean that you wish you'd got my turbo problem so you would have an excuse for a K04 kit? :evilgrin:

How would you justify the cost to the missus?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: sibart on November 04, 2008, 10:45:21 pm
 :signLOL: Thats one reason why i spent the money. She is now Ex missus
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 04, 2008, 11:36:35 pm
....

So apart from a particular K03, we have something else in common! I too have been there and got the T-shirt and now the car! :grin:

:happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Top Cat on November 04, 2008, 11:46:51 pm
:signLOL: Thats one reason why i spent the money. She is now Ex missus
....

So apart from a particular K03, we have something else in common! I too have been there and got the T-shirt and now the car! :grin:

:happy2:

Sibart be very careful your path in life is dangerously on course to match RR.

Run for cover there is still time.  :laugh: :P :laugh: 
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: joesgti on November 05, 2008, 01:05:49 pm
 :grin: :grin: :grin:

welcome sibart, did you also upgrade the brakes and susspension?  :smiley:

Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: sibart on November 05, 2008, 06:51:15 pm
:grin: :grin: :grin:

welcome sibart, did you also upgrade the brakes and susspension?  :smiley:


Yes mate, Koni FSD,Eibach Springs and anti-roll bars. The brakes uprated using R32 / S3 OEM fronts, all of which fitted by JKM whom i reccomend whole heartly
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 05, 2008, 07:05:04 pm
....

I've also got the KoniFSD+Eibachs+ARB's. Unfortunately my KoniFSD's have failed, but they are an early version, so don't get worried. VW Racing are tailor making a KW setup to replace them.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: E30m3 on November 07, 2008, 08:04:43 am
Goodluck with today Robin, heres hoping you have no boost issues ! i should get my golf back from the dealers today too  :drinking:  :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: joesgti on November 07, 2008, 09:22:11 am
yea, good luck robin! hopefully youl be making full power again soon  :driver:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 07, 2008, 11:10:34 pm
....

Thanks for the good wishes, guys :happy2:

JKM removed and inspected my turbo and, as suspected, the casing around the 'Penny Valve' Wastegate has a small crack. When I was chatting with VW Racing about my problem yesterday, they said it was probably Wastegate area or Penny Valve as JKM had exhaustively tested other possibilities.

I'll post pics at the weekend - Am off to APS tomorrow.

My original turbo is a Rev C, whereas my 'new' one is Rev G but there's no obviously visible difference!

Instead of trying so hard to meet boost requests that we were seeing >90% effort in the data logs, we are now seeing as little as 65% and mostly in the 70's - So now there's plenty headroom (tolerance).

JKM also set my Revo to Boost 6 instead of 7. It'll run 7 fine but we decided 6 just as an extra margin of safety.

So initially she making just over 240 bhp with a very healthy torque curve but we need to let the whole ECU learn the new setup and settle before another dyno session.

The dyno has been invaluable as a tool for assessment and diagnosis and then checking everything afterwards. Jim did some road testing with the laptop as well.

JKM are a great team - Jim is the mechanical expert and Keith the electronics expert and they specialise in VAG cars.

The probable cause of the crack is heat - Turbo's are subjected to extremely high temperatures - And a weakness in the metal casing. At first it's easy to regret that it didn't happen while still under warranty but I doubt very much if VW would have accepted my issue with my other modifications being present. There have been cases of metal failure in the K03 turbo on standard 2.0T FSI engines, so it's not a problem exclusive to remapped engines.

It's great to have that extra power back!
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Greeners on November 07, 2008, 11:13:51 pm
....

Thanks for the good wishes, guys :happy2:

JKM removed and inspected my turbo and, as suspected, the casing around the 'Penny Valve' Wastegate has a small crack. When I was chatting with VW Racing about my problem yesterday, they said it was probably Wastegate area or Penny Valve as JKM had exhaustively tested other possibilities.

Hi Robin  :happy2:

As daft as this sounds that's good news isn't it? At least you now know whats involved and how much it will cost.......

P.S. I bet you enjoyed the drive today, the weather was  8)
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: ukdub on November 07, 2008, 11:38:36 pm
....

Thanks for the good wishes, guys :happy2:

JKM removed and inspected my turbo and, as suspected, the casing around the 'Penny Valve' Wastegate has a small crack. When I was chatting with VW Racing about my problem yesterday, they said it was probably Wastegate area or Penny Valve as JKM had exhaustively tested other possibilities.

I'll post pics at the weekend - Am off to APS tomorrow.

My original turbo is a Rev C, whereas my 'new' one is Rev G but there's no obviously visible difference!

Instead of trying so hard to meet boost requests that we were seeing >90% effort in the data logs, we are now seeing as little as 65% and mostly in the 70's - So now there's plenty headroom (tolerance).

JKM also set my Revo to Boost 6 instead of 7. It'll run 7 fine but we decided 6 just as an extra margin of safety.

So initially she making just over 240 bhp with a very healthy torque curve but we need to let the whole ECU learn the new setup and settle before another dyno session.

The dyno has been invaluable as a tool for assessment and diagnosis and then checking everything afterwards. Jim did some road testing with the laptop as well.

JKM are a great team - Jim is the mechanical expert and Keith the electronics expert and they specialise in VAG cars.

The probable cause of the crack is heat - Turbo's are subjected to extremely high temperatures - And a weakness in the metal casing. At first it's easy to regret that it didn't happen while still under warranty but I doubt very much if VW would have accepted my issue with my other modifications being present. There have been cases of metal failure in the K03 turbo on standard 2.0T FSI engines, so it's not a problem exclusive to remapped engines.

It's great to have that extra power back!

Do you think this could happen to our k04 brothers as well RR?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 07, 2008, 11:40:00 pm
As daft as this sounds that's good news isn't it? At least you now know whats involved and how much it will cost.......

P.S. I bet you enjoyed the drive today, the weather was  8)

....Not as daft as some may think - It was excellent news as far as we were all concerned because the problem was found and now the new turbo is on, it's solved.

I drove up to the Guildford area to see some friends and then back down the A3 and then home - About 120 miles on the new turbo. Torrential rain on the A3 in the dark but the GTI handles all that sort of thing without any effort and my Quaife is brilliant in the wet.

:happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 07, 2008, 11:50:41 pm
Do you think this could happen to our k04 brothers as well RR?

....I regret to say definitely yes - It COULD happen but of course might not. It's more likely to happen on a remapped engine because more boost is requested and so more effort and hence heat is generated. But just as stock DV's have failed, so can anything standard.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Greeners on November 08, 2008, 12:04:56 am
Really pleased to hear this is sorted Robin, keep enjoying  :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 12:09:39 am
....

Thanks, Nathan :happy2:

It's great to have the support of so many fellow enthusiasts here and I hope my experiences on this problem may help others - neg perhaps.

I have to say that I couldn't have been in better hands than JKM - Their approach and methods were spot-on!
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 12:50:22 am
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FK03_RevG.jpg&hash=4258c0840f53eabb6793bdf7f8ea363456d199fe)

^ My new K03 turbo RevG - Thanks to JKM and new member sibart :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: vRStu on November 08, 2008, 01:11:08 am
Hi all,
I'm the doner of the turbo for Red's motor (hope all goes well). The K04 debate has raised some interesting opinions on Briskoda.net for sure.
My personal opinion is without doubt AMAZING. The drive you get i feel is superb, bearing in mind I do at least 1000 miles a week.
I'll be keeping my eyes open on the forum for any future meets to try and make a presence so some of you guys can take a test drive.
Hope you dont mind me crashing on here in my VRs.
And again, hope it all goes well Red.

Fancy meeting you here   :innocent: :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Hurdy on November 08, 2008, 01:38:42 am
Good to hear you're all sorted now and sounds like you are one very happy bunny.

Once again JKM pulled out the stops for you and came up trumps :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: E30m3 on November 08, 2008, 03:13:50 am
Congrats Robin , glad its running back to good health  :drinking: Nothing more depressing when somethings wrong and you can't rectify it.

Must have had a grin on the way home !

Also thanks for letting us know what went wrong, as that really helps the community if someone else has a similar problem they'll be able to sort it out much easier !  :happy2:

Ps: i had my car sorted, nothing wrong just a faulty steering wheel and reset adaptation, feels like it did before !



Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 07:19:09 am
Congrats Robin , glad its running back to good health  :drinking: Nothing more depressing when somethings wrong and you can't rectify it.

Must have had a grin on the way home !

Also thanks for letting us know what went wrong, as that really helps the community if someone else has a similar problem they'll be able to sort it out much easier !  :happy2:

Ps: i had my car sorted, nothing wrong just a faulty steering wheel and reset adaptation, feels like it did before !

.... :happy2: Thanks, buddy.

That steering wheel fault is relatively common - I missed where you had posted about it, otherwise I would have posted.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: SteveP on November 08, 2008, 07:20:39 am
I echo everyone else's comments Robin, good to hear she's back to full strength  :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 07:30:20 am
Good to hear you're all sorted now and sounds like you are one very happy bunny.

Once again JKM pulled out the stops for you and came up trumps :happy2:

....Cheers, John :happy2: 8) :happy2:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FJC_Power.jpg&hash=259d1c1d53ebb320c3d6fcea9f7927e675c9eed8)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FJKMbanner.jpg&hash=5a7fb21e937e07b2af22200252d991f552a8e483)

Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Greeners on November 08, 2008, 08:48:02 am
^^^^^ Brilliant Robin  :happy2:

Is that an ASBO he's driving?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: gazbutS3 on November 08, 2008, 09:02:27 am
Nice 1 RR, glad everythings sorted pal. 
I've heard of turbo casings cracking before, not on the Tfsi as such, but it is fairly common on Cosworths etc
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: WhiteGTI on November 08, 2008, 10:36:16 am
Great to hear that Red.

Are the revision G turbo's less prone to this cracking, do you know? As you have got me slightly worried with my Stage 2 now!

Keith also set my boost to 6 - but that was for fuel pressure reasons.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: sibart on November 08, 2008, 04:31:27 pm
Glad to hear youre all sorted Robin  :happy2:
Echo your statement on the JKM team
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: veedub18 on November 08, 2008, 04:38:28 pm
Good to hear that its all sorted now for you RedRobin,  :happy2:
The JKM team sound spot on and have true customer care.   :grouphug:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: john_o on November 08, 2008, 05:33:10 pm
great info RR , good to hear its back to rude health.  :jumpmove:
Th fact it could happen to any of us is a bit  :surprised:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 05:57:54 pm
Nice 1 RR, glad everythings sorted pal. 
I've heard of turbo casings cracking before, not on the Tfsi as such, but it is fairly common on Cosworths etc

....Yep - she's a sweet ride again - I've just returned from a 322 mile round trip to the Open Day at APS where I met up with SteveP, Jamie in his modded S3, and a lot of Audi TT guys.

APS boss Ed, told me that hairline cracks were known in the K03's on the Mk4 but weren't always a problem.

Thanks for the well wishes :happy2: - I'm gonna start a new post in Troubleshooting/How-To which is a concise overview of my example discussed in this thread. The intention is that it will provide a resource of info for anyone with a K03 2.0T FSI engine in their VW/Audi/Skoda/Cupra etc.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 06:01:17 pm
Glad to hear youre all sorted Robin  :happy2:
Echo your statement on the JKM team

....Your turbo is running sweet and JKM took their time to rebuild my Revo2 map settings and to check the logs.

Thanks again :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 06:04:24 pm
great info RR , good to hear its back to rude health.  :jumpmove:
Th fact it could happen to any of us is a bit  :surprised:

....Yes it could happen to anyone but such is the nature of cars and all their mechanical components. I don't think that because it's happened to me, it's going to happen sooner or later to everyone else - I think it's important to accept that such things can happen but Think Positive.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 06:15:39 pm
Great to hear that Red.

Are the revision G turbo's less prone to this cracking, do you know? As you have got me slightly worried with my Stage 2 now!

Keith also set my boost to 6 - but that was for fuel pressure reasons.

....I haven't had the chance to photograph my RevC version yet but Jim had a good look and couldn't see any obvious external difference from the RevG.

You don't need to worry unduly - Revo2 has been applied to a large number of different cars with the same 2.0T FSI and K03 and without problem. They assure me that boost 7 and higher should not create a problem. However, it may highlight a manufacturing defect or problem that's already there.

I'm not having any fuel pressure problems as such but my dyno plot is showing a very slight dip which would be got rid of if the APR fuel pump was installed - So it's very likely my next mod. It would just help everything run better and with less demand.

Keith really knows his subject doesn't he!

:happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 06:32:53 pm
Nice one, although I sort knew from what went on prior to this I was expecting it to be a turbo related issue .. unfortunatley!!

....Yes, it was a process of elimination starting off with the easier things to access and check.

Be nice to see pics of the fault unit - just to see exactly which bit went wrong.

....I'll post pics when I get the chance in the next few days.

Suppose the weather doesnt help but does it feel any better now?

....In the last 48 hrs I've driven about 500 miles in all sorts of weather from dry and sunny to torrential rain and in daylight and at night. She feels great in all conditions and whether pootling in D, screaming in S, or flappy Manual.

Would you consider selling your old turbo ... wonder how much a recon would be ...

....Great as it would be to sell my turbo and recoup a little of what the whole problem has cost me, I would not want to sell anyone my turbo without first a turbo specialist taking it apart, repairing and rebuilding it. Just to take it apart and produce a report would cost around £200. It's not worth me spending £200+ and then waiting for someone who wants to buy it and also it's done 57,000 miles.

By part exchanging your existing turbo, VW can supply you a reconditioned (possibly new if you're lucky) K03 for about £650 and with a 2-year warranty. However, if your engine is at all modified, especially exhaust and/or remap, the turbo warranty would be meaningless if you subsequently had an issue.

Edit:  Also be useful to see your logs - boost graphs etc to see the difference now I assume it meets requested.

^^^^ You keep asking to see my logs - I don't have them - JKM do, together with about 200 other 2.0T FSI logs. Every car is slightly different too.

I'm now interested to see how your turbo problem gets resolved. My advice is not to leave it to possibly get worse and hence potentially create more serious damage.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: bacillus on November 08, 2008, 07:47:23 pm
I'm not having any fuel pressure problems as such but my dyno plot is showing a very slight dip which would be got rid of if the APR fuel pump was installed - So it's very likely my next mod. It would just help everything run better and with less demand.
Interesting to note that on one hand VW Racing who you seem to have great faith in don't recommend an uprated HPFP whilst JMK are trying to sell you one because of a slight power dip that you probably don't even appreciate when driving.

Decisions, decisions... 
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: WhiteGTI on November 08, 2008, 08:01:42 pm
I'm not having any fuel pressure problems as such but my dyno plot is showing a very slight dip which would be got rid of if the APR fuel pump was installed - So it's very likely my next mod. It would just help everything run better and with less demand.
Interesting to note that on one hand VW Racing who you seem to have great faith in don't recommend an uprated HPFP whilst JMK are trying to sell you one because of a slight power dip that you probably don't even appreciate when driving.

Decisions, decisions... 

The standard fuel pump cant cope with the extra fueling requirements of the stage 2 map, which results in falling fuel pressure, which again will result in a misfire as pressure falls further. He would notice the misfire no doubt.

But yeah, good call Bacillus ....VWR seem to be very against improving the standard fuel pump, and i wonder whyyyy!
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Soundlab on November 08, 2008, 08:02:25 pm
Glad to hear it's all sorted now Robin   :drinking:

Daz
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 08:04:36 pm
I'm not having any fuel pressure problems as such but my dyno plot is showing a very slight dip which would be got rid of if the APR fuel pump was installed - So it's very likely my next mod. It would just help everything run better and with less demand.
Interesting to note that on one hand VW Racing who you seem to have great faith in don't recommend an uprated HPFP whilst JMK are trying to sell you one because of a slight power dip that you probably don't even appreciate when driving.

Decisions, decisions... 

....I had further discussions with VWR about the HPFP and found that they were basing their opinions on what was known about faults in the early FP versions. Also, they don't use FP's in their race cars and I have also learnt that they are always very reluctant to recommend anything which they don't have direct and fairly extensive experience of. I think that's fair enough and at least it means that the things they do recommend are as a result of some heavy-duty use.

I don't know if the particular racing rules allow an aftermarket fuel pump.

JKM aren't trying to sell me one - Keith actually said I don't need one based on my plot but it was myself who raised the subject of the dip (only very slight) and asked why and how it could be changed - An FP was the answer and certainly would be recommended if a car was experiencing fuelling problems and a more dramatic dip in the curve.

:happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 08:10:17 pm
The standard fuel pump cant cope with the extra fueling requirements of the stage 2 map, which results in falling fuel pressure, which again will result in a misfire as pressure falls further. He would notice the misfire no doubt.

....Not necessarily as I understand it. It will depend on the settings (boost, I believe) in the Stage2 map.

For example, B7 and higher may induce the problem more than B6.

JKM data logged mine to check that very point and I'm okay on B6 - At least at present.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: WhiteGTI on November 08, 2008, 08:11:33 pm
The standard fuel pump cant cope with the extra fueling requirements of the stage 2 map, which results in falling fuel pressure, which again will result in a misfire as pressure falls further. He would notice the misfire no doubt.

....Not necessarily as I understand it. It will depend on the settings (boost, I believe) in the Stage2 map.

For example, B7 and higher may induce the problem more than B6.

JKM data logged mine to check that very point and I'm okay on B6 - At least at present.

Yes, much better put than how I wrote! What you said above it what I meant!!  :ashamed: :ashamed:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 08:13:12 pm
....

I forgot to add that VWR's GTI's don't run above 250 bhp IIRC.

Shouldn't we be splitting this thread off into the different subject of Fuel Pump?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: bacillus on November 08, 2008, 08:28:42 pm
....

I forgot to add that VWR's GTI's don't run above 250 bhp IIRC.

Shouldn't we be splitting this thread off into the different subject of Fuel Pump?

RR can I suggest that before you embark on the upgraded HPFP route, you first find out what version cam you presently have i.e. type A or B. The earlier A type is known to suffer with premature wearing of the fuel pump lobes and that may be exacerbated by the higher loads that an uprated pump puts on the cam.

The cost for a replacement cam can be quite pricey when labour for fitting is included.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 08, 2008, 10:09:02 pm
RR can I suggest that before you embark on the upgraded HPFP route, you first find out what version cam you presently have i.e. type A or B. The earlier A type is known to suffer with premature wearing of the fuel pump lobes and that may be exacerbated by the higher loads that an uprated pump puts on the cam.

The cost for a replacement cam can be quite pricey when labour for fitting is included.

....That sounds like an extremely sensible thing to do!!

Is this anything to do with what's called "cam followers"?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: bacillus on November 08, 2008, 10:27:01 pm

....That sounds like an extremely sensible thing to do!!

Is this anything to do with what's called "cam followers"?
The A cams have softer fuel pump lobes and tended to wear more quickly than originally anticipated even when the fuel pump cam lobe follower was in good condition. This could occur with the standard pump.

VW recognised this "deficency" and updated the cam to version B on later cars that is less prone to premature wear. I think they also altered the hardened coating on the surface of the fuel pump cam follower to compliment this change.

The fact that you have one of the earlier cars prompted me to alert you to a potentially costly upgrade in the short to medium term should you go with the upgraded pump and find that your cam has worn prematurely.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: ukdub on November 09, 2008, 11:15:41 am
RR I think you will have the AXX engine like myself.  Which is what is fitted to the early GTI's.  I took out my HPFP about a month ago to have a look at the follower and cam lobe.  Everything was fine and showing no sign of wear. :jumpmove:  As for which cam, I have the 2 piece cam fitted.

Which means it has the hardened lobe on which the follower and HPFP runs on. Yours should be the same. :happy2:

Oh my engine has 67k on it and has been running APR stage 2 for 45K

Have a look at this
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3754451
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 09, 2008, 11:19:14 am
Not all A cams are soft, it was the later batch which there was an issue with and so had a recall on - if you have an A cam but not in the recall list it will be ok - I looked into this before swapping mine.

Thanks for all the info Robin, although an expense at least its now sorted.  I will speak to JKM regarding your logs and look forward to your pics etc.

Regarding your turbo I meant if you sold as-is and then someone else then got it refurbed .. but like you say it might not be much different that getting an exchange unit from VW - hopefully the let you do an advance exchange.  Also again like you said warranty might not count :wink:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 09, 2008, 12:25:26 pm
RR I think you will have the AXX engine like myself.  Which is what is fitted to the early GTI's.  I took out my HPFP about a month ago to have a look at the follower and cam lobe.  Everything was fine and showing no sign of wear.  As for which cam, I have the 2 piece cam fitted.

Which means it has the hardened lobe on which the follower and HPFP runs on. Yours should be the same. :happy2:

Oh my engine has 67k on it and has been running APR stage 2 for 45K

Have a look at this
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3754451

....Ah! That's good news - Thanks ukdub :happy2: My VW dealer has already checked my follower and cam lobe when there was first news of that recall on the subject. Yes I am AXX - 06-Build in July 05.

The A cams have softer fuel pump lobes and tended to wear more quickly than originally anticipated even when the fuel pump cam lobe follower was in good condition. This could occur with the standard pump.

VW recognised this "deficency" and updated the cam to version B on later cars that is less prone to premature wear. I think they also altered the hardened coating on the surface of the fuel pump cam follower to compliment this change.

The fact that you have one of the earlier cars prompted me to alert you to a potentially costly upgrade in the short to medium term should you go with the upgraded pump and find that your cam has worn prematurely.

....Am I right in understanding that you and ukdub are talking about the same thing?

[As SteveP will confirm, I'm not even capable of removing my stock engine cover!]

Thanks :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Top Cat on November 09, 2008, 01:07:46 pm
Really great news your car is back to rude health.  :drinking:

And well done for resisting the calls for the KO4  :wink:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 09, 2008, 01:24:43 pm
Regarding your turbo I meant if you sold as-is and then someone else then got it refurbed .. but like you say it might not be much different that getting an exchange unit from VW - hopefully the let you do an advance exchange.  Also again like you said warranty might not count :wink:

....Yes, I could sell my turbo with its crack (pics coming soon) for someone else to have a professional turbo specialist check out, but that would cost probably about £200 without their extra cost of putting it right. Also, if the casing has already failed, how do we know it won't fail elsewhere - I think this is why people advise against used turbo's.

We don't actually know why it failed - Was it metal failure due to VW manufacture? Was it due to being overstressed by modifications? - We'll never know for certain.

 
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 09, 2008, 01:49:13 pm
Good point - but I suppose if you had exchanged yours no doubt it (most likely) would have been reconditioned and put back on the shelf.  Either way I understand what your saying.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: ukdub on November 09, 2008, 01:56:43 pm
RR I think you will have the AXX engine like myself.  Which is what is fitted to the early GTI's.  I took out my HPFP about a month ago to have a look at the follower and cam lobe.  Everything was fine and showing no sign of wear.  As for which cam, I have the 2 piece cam fitted.

Which means it has the hardened lobe on which the follower and HPFP runs on. Yours should be the same. :happy2:

Oh my engine has 67k on it and has been running APR stage 2 for 45K

Have a look at this
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3754451

....Ah! That's good news - Thanks ukdub :happy2: My VW dealer has already checked my follower and cam lobe when there was first news of that recall on the subject. Yes I am AXX - 06-Build in July 05.

The A cams have softer fuel pump lobes and tended to wear more quickly than originally anticipated even when the fuel pump cam lobe follower was in good condition. This could occur with the standard pump.

VW recognised this "deficency" and updated the cam to version B on later cars that is less prone to premature wear. I think they also altered the hardened coating on the surface of the fuel pump cam follower to compliment this change.

The fact that you have one of the earlier cars prompted me to alert you to a potentially costly upgrade in the short to medium term should you go with the upgraded pump and find that your cam has worn prematurely.

....Am I right in understanding that you and ukdub are talking about the same thing?

[As SteveP will confirm, I'm not even capable of removing my stock engine cover!]

Thanks :happy2:

My understanding is that the yanks never got the AXX engine.  So their first engine had the cheaper single piece cam (revision A)
Lots of them had problems with fuel cuts and fuel codes being logged due to this cam begin too soft on the lobe.  So revision B came out (2 piece cam) If you look at the link it explains this better that my waffling. :happy2:  I know a few cars over here have had this issue.  Awesomegti's demo car being one.  That failed at 20K.  It seems the early gti engines (AXX engine) are pretty different to the later engines (GTI only not ed30) We have the 2 piece cam and different pistons as well.  I was told by Keith at APR that the AXX is the only true lean burn engine. What that means I havn't a clue :laugh:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 09, 2008, 02:57:06 pm
....

neg - Yes, reconditioned / overhauled / rebuilt - Providing it could be done such that a 2-year warranty could be attached to it.

I've just been out to try and take some pics of the crack, but I think that because Jim has reassembled it, the crack is now hidden! I'll speak to him Monday and see what I can do to expose the crack for photography.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: 08micsta on November 09, 2008, 03:49:52 pm
It seems Robin cant find his crack....  :innocent: :rolleye:

Once you have found your crack remember to use macro on your camera so we can actually see the crack as I assume its rather small?

Mike  :smiley:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: bacillus on November 09, 2008, 04:15:41 pm
It seems Robin cant find his crack....  :innocent: :rolleye:

I thought he gave up such things a long time ago...   :grin:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: 08micsta on November 09, 2008, 04:42:09 pm
It seems Robin cant find his crack....  :innocent: :rolleye:

I thought he gave up such things a long time ago...   :grin:

You cant teach a old dog new tricks  :evilgrin: :wink:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 09, 2008, 05:02:57 pm
^^^^

Oi !!!! - Cop a load of this! : -

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FPioneerChav.jpg&hash=58bb5c46a2762db3dcbd1e5d666414f6930f9627)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FK03_plates.jpg&hash=a77193f5cd48fc213b54ccdb4a28eaeeb8a9b178)
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: E30m3 on November 09, 2008, 06:54:40 pm

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FPioneerChav.jpg&hash=58bb5c46a2762db3dcbd1e5d666414f6930f9627)


awesome pic ! :grin:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: 08micsta on November 09, 2008, 08:48:13 pm
I love that pic! its brilliant. I was gonna post one of myself in full glory giving the finger but didnt want it to be a sign of disrespect. :)
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: bacillus on November 09, 2008, 10:16:17 pm
Wasn't he just pointing to his latest K03 turbo in the pic above??   :laugh:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 09, 2008, 10:28:43 pm
Wasn't he just pointing to his latest K03 turbo in the pic above??   :laugh:

....Was I? :P :wink:


Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Greeners on November 09, 2008, 10:33:38 pm

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FPioneerChav.jpg&hash=58bb5c46a2762db3dcbd1e5d666414f6930f9627)


awesome pic ! :grin:

Daddy cool!  8) :grin:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 09, 2008, 11:02:52 pm
Daddy cool!  8) :grin:

....All my daughter's teenage friends say I'm cool but somehow my 17yo daughter doesn't think so!

Dads are never cool are they!

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FFathersDay1.png&hash=a3b8079fd17189f5762f7a04991eabe59af49077)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FFathersDay2.png&hash=4fa8414ca7faee2d31f296cd5d20e674d561ff19)

^ But I was very touched when she made me a PDF booklet on Father's Day

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FSky_passenger.jpg&hash=358bb8ea2b66122120c702f086b77bfe5869a709)
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: Top Cat on November 09, 2008, 11:12:29 pm
Brilliant Red does your daughter know that all of her cars are going to get carbon presents every Christmas.  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 09, 2008, 11:32:10 pm
....

She's learning to drive at the moment and doing quite well according to her instructor. She can't practice on my GTI though!
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: neg on November 10, 2008, 09:15:48 am
Robin,

Was it only the turbo unit you have replaced - any other bits along with it ?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: joesgti on November 10, 2008, 10:08:37 am
hey robin, glad its back to full power. does it feel quicker? i wonder if any other KO3's have this problem if they are running higher boost  :scared:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 10, 2008, 10:33:23 am
....

neg,

I replaced the whole unit as it is supplied by VW - You can't buy the turbo without the manifold etc because (I think) the wastegate is cast with the manifold. This raises the question of exactly which part of the integrated set my crack was on - I'll check and post accordingly.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FK03_RevG.jpg&hash=4258c0840f53eabb6793bdf7f8ea363456d199fe)

I'm going to be starting a new topic in Troubleshooting all about my problem and how it was solved - It'll be useful to the whole community and I'll be posting links on other forums where the 2.0T FSI engine is used - Audi, Seat etc.

vRStu networks info among shared engine users and it's very helpful :happy2:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: 182_blue on November 10, 2008, 10:41:25 am
How much was the Turbo unit RR ?
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 10, 2008, 10:47:40 am
hey robin, glad its back to full power. does it feel quicker? i wonder if any other KO3's have this problem if they are running higher boost  :scared:

....Thanks, Joe  :happy2:

Yes it feels quicker, especially after running a few hundred miles in Stock and D-mode to keep the cracked turbo from working too hard. I did a 322-mile trip on Saturday on all sorts of roads and didn't hang about and she felt like the Stage2 I had experienced for a short while before this happened - Or at least how I remember.

I don't think that alarm bells should start ringing - Possibly running Boost 7 may have contributed to the problem but the weakness was probably already in my individual casing. It's impossible to tell for certain. Revo insist that Boost 7 isn't too high.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 10, 2008, 10:55:17 am
How much was the Turbo unit RR ?

....[where's the smilie for "please read the feckin thread!"]

As I posted earlier, I paid £400 for a hardly used one (less than 4k miles) from sibart who upgraded early to a K04.

It'll cost you £650 to swop yours with one from VW, or approx £1,000 to buy new(?) outright.

If your car is modded with exhaust etc, the 2-year VW warranty will be meaningless.

I'm gonna be posting a new topic in Troubleshooting with it all concisely presented and some more pics of hot girlies interesting bits of metal.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: 182_blue on November 10, 2008, 10:58:32 am
Thanks, and sorry i didnt read the whole thread but i am at work and limited to how much i can view without getting busted  :laugh:

How much was the Turbo unit RR ?

....[where's the smilie for "please read the feckin thread!"]

As I posted earlier, I paid £400 for a hardly used one (less than 4k miles) from sibart who upgraded early to a K04.

It'll cost you £650 to swop yours with one from VW, or approx £1,000 to buy new(?) outright.

If your car is modded with exhaust etc, the 2-year VW warranty will be meaningless.

I'm gonna be posting a new topic in Troubleshooting with it all concisely presented and some more pics of hot girlies interesting bits of metal.
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 10, 2008, 11:01:45 am
Thanks, and sorry i didnt read the whole thread but i am at work and limited to how much i can view without getting busted  :laugh:

....No problem, buddy - I don't know how some of you guys get away with all your daytime on here anyway!

Fertive Car Forum Fetish :evilgrin:

:drinking:
Title: Re: Down on power....
Post by: RedRobin on November 10, 2008, 03:21:14 pm
....

LATEST INFO ON THIS TOPIC:

The Crack is located on the exhaust casting, behind the waste gate valve. So it's not on the actual K03 turbo itself.

As JKM have informed me today : -

"In order to open this valve to see the crack, the actuator needs to be temporarily removed to allow a good photograph to be taken; you are going to really struggle to open this by hand. Next time you are coming by JKM, bring the turbo with you and Jim can disconnect the actuator for you. Bear in mind that the crack although clearly visible when cold, will become bigger when the red hot exhaust gases are passing over it and the waste gate valve will not have a flush seat to sit against, hence a constant leak."

It really is a damned nuisance that VW don't/won't supply a separate manifold component but I guess there are reasons due to how the whole assembly is designed to work. On the other hand, at 57k miles I now have a nearly new turbo as well as manifold.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FTurboManifold.png&hash=b12ab7a1f06970ba24af5fc92a8981a94f943942)