MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: john_o on July 08, 2009, 08:24:18 pm
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Michelin Pilot Sport (PS2) 225/40/18 92Y XL (Extra Load)
Why
We all need tyres, and often we underestimate just how important these 4 small patches are.
I have ran these for 13k miles and Im just about to replace like for like , so I reckon a review was in order. :smiley:
Considerations for tyres are varied but generally follow these lines :
1. Cost
2. Grip levels wet/dry (which translates to stopping distance and safety!)
3. Availability
4. Brand name 'status'
5. Tread Wear Rate
6. Noise levels
7. Alloy lip protection
8. Speed rating
9. Quality
10. Progressive breakaway
These are all differently 'weighted' by all of us, for me I'm not a rich man, but for me grip (especially wet) ,breakway progression, quality and wear rate are my primary considerations. For each and every person on here I'm sure its different.
I will not discuss 'remoulds' here , but suffice to say I would hope no one on this forum is running them on a GTI, they are wholly inadequate for the car, probably don't have a sufficient speed rating and verge on the downright dangerous.......
Volkswagen fitted various makes of OE tyres to GTI's. some good some bad but all very different !
Michelin
Pirelli
Continental
My car (Edition 30) came from the factory fitted with 4 Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2's in 225/40/18 size.
Whilst not a 'bad tyre' the car suffered what I consider to be inappropriate levels of understeer.....
Due to certain circumstances the front tyres were damaged at 12k miles (even though they were barely worn at that mileage!), and replaced with Pilot Sport PS2's
At the same time the car was remapped to ~300bhp and the WALKit fitted.
The steering 'feel' , turn in and stability was transformed. I could attack corners with much more confidence.
These Pilot Sport PS2's have now lasted 13k miles (car now at 25k miles) and are now at the legal limit and are due to be replaced.
The rear original OE supplied exaltos are barely 50% worn after 25k miles !!
After much deliberation and discussion on the forum I narrowed it down to 2 choices based on my previous history with various makes and extensive web surfing.
1. Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 (a known quantity)
2. Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric (unknown for the GTI but won reviews and I have had VERY good experiences with GSD3 pattern F1's on previous cars)
In the end I bought option 1 which I'll explain why in the summary......
(To be fair I reckon you cant go wrong with either :happy2:)
Heres some useful data
>> Golf GTI tyres reviewed (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyres_For/Volkswagen/Golf-GTI.htm)
>> Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 data (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Michelin/Pilot-Sport-PS2.htm)
>> Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric data (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Goodyear/Eagle-F1-Asymmetric.htm)
>> 2009 Test : Pirelli PZero wins ! (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2009-Auto-Zeitung-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm)
>> Benchmark EVO tyre test 2007 (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2007-evo-tyre-test.htm)
Actual tyre specification (from >> here << (http://www.michelinman.com/tires/ultra-high-performance-sport/pilot-sport-ps2/93617/#sizes-and-specifications))
Michelin® Pilot® Sport PS2™
Tire Size: 225/40ZR18/XL (MSPN: 93617)
Service Description 92Y
Model Number (MSPN) 93617
Tire Size 225/40ZR18/XL
Type of Tire Ultra-High Performance Sport
Rim Width Range 7.5" - 9"
Section Width on Measuring Rim Width 9.2" on 8"
Aspect Ratio 40
Overall Diameter 25.1"
Tread Depth 9.5/32"
Tire Revolutions per Mile 829 at 45mph
Speed Ratings Y
Load Index 92
Maximum Load 1389lbs.@50 psi
Treadwear Grade 220
Traction Grade AA
Temperature Grade A
heres a pic of new vs on the treadwear indicators (my car 2 weeks ago)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.johnoldfield.dsl.pipex.com%2Fimages%2Fweblog%2Ftread_pic_pilot_sport_ps2_new_vs_old.jpg&hash=beff14c042f9d517e2d109d5de29fe1403d0bf48)
Sourcing
This time I have chosen to use a mobile fitting service called Event Tyres (http://www.event-tyres.co.uk)
Order the tyres online , select a date , they then phone you back (very quickly) and confirm the time/date etc.
No money is required until they are fitted.
So far the experience has been top notch.
Just make sure you order the CORRECT tyres :signLOL:
(you dont want MO type , you do want XL rating)
I got a £10 voucher code from http://twitter.com/event_tyres (http://twitter.com/event_tyres) as well.
(Of note I also referenced
http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m4b0s134p11466 (http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m4b0s134p11466) which are generally cheapest at £128 each)
From event tyres it was £290 for 2 incl fitting (- £10) voucher = £280
Not the cheapest but suits me.
(Costco also do tyre deals which is definitely worth checking as they are much cheaper... eh SteveP :P)
Fitting
Fitted today , phone call at 8.30 am to say it would be around 11am :happy2:
Adam arrived 11:15 :surprised:
Very friendly top notch service. Huge van and air jack , viola all done (balanced weights stick on and only on inside :happy2:) in 20 minutes! alloys confirmed prior to work so no disputes after . No marks made at all.
Absolutely faultless.
Event come highly recommended based on this experience.
10/10
funnily enough the TPS warning came on after a few miles because the rolling radius has changed so much.
The new tyre tread depth is huge.
Other options to consider
Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric
Pirelli PZero
Yokohama parada 2
Continental Sport Contact
Read the reviews , check the forums (for the exact tyre size you plan to fit) and decide yourself
Plus Points
hot weather : good strong grip , nice feel , progressive breakaway, easily recoverable, nice turn in feedback. no impression of weak sidewalls at all
cold weather : as above + good stability , never once aquaplaned.
100% tread : no 'bedding in' phase required , great from mile 0
50% tread : still performing great, no change in wet or dry from 100% tread
10% tread (legal limit) : amazing for a nearly bald tyre! still manage to shift some water, in general driving seem normal, however once the (lower) limit is reached the progression is swift into terminal understeer. To be fair I have taken these tyres way past the point of tread depth where I would normally change. But they perform so well.
limited road noise, probably got slightly worse once past 75% worn (25% remaining)
on the track : not tested so I cant comment in this scenario. Reckon they should perform well as long as they dont overheat and tyre pressures are kept stable
up the drag strip : rubbish driver on a cold day = poor results lol, not the tyres fault :wink:
Minus Points
The biggest minus by far with these is the COST , at least 10% (often more) expensive than Goodyears.
not a big rim protector either
Summary
I chose these again because based on the mileage (13k) , the fact theres no scrubbing in mileage (500 miles for the F1's) , no massive reduction in performance at the legal tread depth (that F1's do tend to have) , these factors balance out the increased cost.
I just couldnt risk putting Goodyears on. Maybe next time I will, but for now nope...
As with all tyres , check and experiment with your tyre pressures , it can and does make a huge difference
As a rough guesstimate the tyres have worn 8mm (9.5mm - 1.5mm) in 13,000 miles = 0.6 mm per 1,000 miles wear rate
At a cost of £145 , they have cost just over 1p per mile (per tyre)
Exaltos are a good compromise if cost/wear rate comes above outright grip as a priority.
Choose you tyres carefully but check out the reviews and see how much the stopping distances vary between tyres!
They may just save your live one day , where a few extra horsepower from that air filter etc wont. dont scrimp :drinking:
In summary I highly recommend these for the Golf GTI :happy2:
Additional info
I did ask on the forum about changing the OE size but keeping the same rim.
>> forum discussion about diff tyres << (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5522.0)
TT fitted 235/40 ZR18 to his GTI :happy2:
In the end I didnt want a mismatch size f/r , but if I was changing all 4 I may have done ...
[Edit October 2010 :
The second front pair have now worn down and have been replaced for the MOT today.
This time around the front PS2's have done 19,000 miles :surprised: , an incredible mileage beating the last sets mileage (13,000 miles) by a significant margin. I can only surmise that a less peaky remap (APR stg1 newer version file) + knackered engine mounts + a slowing ageing driver :laugh: have contributed to a 50% improvement in mileage. (dont forget I also did a wet Oulton park in Dec 2009!)
These tyres are nothing short of superb wet and dry, and once again have proved consistent performance right up to the legal limit (1.6mm) :surprised:
I did get a bulge in one tyre towards the end from a large pothole, but Im not sure any tyre would have withstood the impact so well.
A truly superb tyre that works well, if not a little pricey (and get more expensive by the minute!)
the story does however end there, as I have now decided to try something new, 4 new PS3's were fitted as the PS2/Exalto combos replacements.
review of PS3's to follow in a different thread
]
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thats a great review johno! I thought i was set with my Goodyear eagle F1s and Conti Sport contact 3s. Now you've just throw me into a quandry! haha!
great read! ;)
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I agree they were a fantastic tyre i had them and loved them, i however got a lot less mileage out of them than you did. i changed them after about 9K, although there was some serious track time in there.
I then went to vredestein ultrac sessantas which were absolutley outstanding at everything and way way cheaper. i then had a blowout on my front tyres and a nail in the other, so i swapped them for toyo proxes T1R which were horrendous for the first 500 miles and then not in the same league as the michelins and vredestein.
Had it not been for the price of the michelins, i would have undoubtably gone for them again. fantastic tyre.
have you thought of maybe putting 235 tyres on instead or 225s if thats possible
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cheers guys :happy2:
simon , reminded me about my tyre size question , so Ive added it to the review :happy2:
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Excellent and very detailed informative review as usual, johno :happy2:
I haven't tried the Michelins. I'm getting good mileage and good results from my Goodyear Assyms.
Each tyre has a contact area with the road which is merely the size of a CD - Food for thought!
:happy2:
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Great review!!! thanks!
These tyres were a slow burner for me. When I got them in Oct / Nov last year, at first they did not seem as good as the Continental Eco Sport 2 that were on the car as original equipment from new - they seemed noisier and far more likely to lose grip in the wet.
Of course I didn't change to winter tyres over the course of the winter and we actually had a pretty crappy winter with low average temps. These kinds of tyres don't really work so well below 8c.... so what I may have just been feeling is less adaptability in the Michelins for colder temps.. because now the summer is here, they have been nothing short of fantastic as I've written else where. I'd also state that they seem to get better with a bit of wear. And pressures also play a huge part in getting a better feeling.
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As always a top review. I managed to get the costco 20% deal thanks to PG, :innocent: still made my eyes water though when he came back with a price for all four in 19in :sad:
I have found there is great rim protection on mine, not to sure whether i have the same spec as yours John_o i will have to check.
I went from 18in exalto's to 19 inch PS2 and i was expecting a harsher ride, but it was softer if anything and the road noise definitely dropped.
Just one quick point in your review you say you plumped for option 2 which was the goodyear F1 i believe in your choices.
Thanks again for taking time to write up this review. :drinking:
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I would have to agree with Top Cat - I have these on my Audi A4 (Costco deal) and have found them to be a softer & quieter ride - which on the S line can be a little harsh – without any loss in performance
They have performed well and are lasting well - it’s the family bus, so it doesn’t get a lot of stick on the twisty bits – I will definitely put them on the GTI when they need swapping.
It’s probably been covered before, however, when the ‘deal’ is on at Costco (members only) must buy 4 to get the discount, but you can have say just 2 fitted and have the other 2 fitted at a later date, just take them with your original receipt.
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appreciate the positive feedback
@Simon : yeah given I have taken these way past my normal 'tread depth change point' , I reckon the 'normal' mileage for me on these would be just over 10k miles. I prefer to change whilst the tyre still performs 100% , this time circumstance has meant I havent.
@ RR : Yeah I reckon the Assymetric / PS2 are very closely matched, both really good tyres imho.
@TC : thanks adjusted :happy2:
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new tyres fitted and event tyres review updated :happy2:
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These tyres were a slow burner for me. When I got them in Oct / Nov last year, at first they did not seem as good as the Continental Eco Sport 2 that were on the car as original equipment from new - they seemed noisier and far more likely to lose grip in the wet.
There is no such tyre! It will be either ContiEcoContact - or ContiSportContact
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Apologies for bumping this thread.
I just had these fitted to the fronts. I previously had the Pilot Exaltos on all four rims. The back two still have over 6mm tread, whilst the front had gone down to less than 2mm.
Got KwikFit to fit them for £300 (only went in to ask about alignment!) but they're round the corner and it was quite convenient compared to the garage Blackcircles.com were using.
I've had them on the car for only two days but have found them to be a lot harsher. I don't know if this is because the Exaltos were worn down or whether they were softer etc but there's increased road noise and a bumpier ride.
Do tyres have to be 'broken in'? A recommended way to do it? Or just drive and let the tyres settle in?
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no probs , first point of call would be the pressures , and that they are fitted correctly...
compared to the exaltos they do have a stiffer sidewall. Al tyres benefit from a run in period
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Pressures were the first thing I checked. In fact, when I left Kwik Fit, I headed towards the local petrol station less than 200 yards away and checked the pressures. They had been inflated to 2.1 bar (dunno if this was deliberate by KwikFit) and I inflated them to 2.6 bar.
I've got a trip involving the motorway tomorrow, so I'll push the car a little and see what happens.
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2.6 is a little higher than I run and may feel a tad firm???
Try 2.4 F & 2.5R unloaded.
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I found the car handled beautifully at 2.6 all round on the exaltos. Too high and it was too hard, too low and it was unresponsive and drank fuel like nothing.
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See how you get on, it's a trial and error things sometimes, especially with different tyres but something with a stiffer sidewall can genreally take a slightly lower pressure to stop them feeling crashy.
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my car is specified to 2 bar on the fronts, and 2.2 bar on the rears. , and my car is heavier than yours. when i had my sessantas fitted, the garage pumped them up to 2.6 bar, and they were qiuite skittish, but once i droped them, to the factory spec presures it was ok.
imo 2.6 is to high. 2 bar is around 29psi,2.2 bar is 32psi, 2.6 is over 37psi
http://www.tvr-webmart.co.uk/tvr_info_psi.asp
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:happy2: good advice, 2.6 (37psi) seems on the high side, even for the exaltos tbh
I run 2.2 (32 psi) all round
let us know how you get on ...
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I run around 2.5 - 2.6 as per the guide from VW inside the fuel flap! :happy2:
Seems good for me for every day use although I went down to about 34psi before I took to the Ring!
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are you running PS2's now then Nathan?
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are you running PS2's now then Nathan?
Yokohama Parada Spec 2's at the minute John.
Will be back on the Michelins for the winter as I want the Parada's to last me at least one more Ring Trip! :happy2:
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2.6 is a little higher than I run and may feel a tad firm???
Try 2.4 F & 2.5R unloaded.
You'll need more in the fronts on a front wheel drive car - especially on the GTI.
On mine with PS2s all round, I run 44psi front, 35psi rear.
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See how you get on, it's a trial and error things sometimes, especially with different tyres but something with a stiffer sidewall can genreally take a slightly lower pressure to stop them feeling crashy.
It is seriously NOT recommended to go below the recommeded pressure - as this can weaken the tyre shoulder, leading to blow-outs.
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my car is specified to 2 bar on the fronts, and 2.2 bar on the rears. , and my car is heavier than yours. when i had my sessantas fitted, the garage pumped them up to 2.6 bar, and they were qiuite skittish, but once i droped them, to the factory spec presures it was ok.
imo 2.6 is to high. 2 bar is around 29psi,2.2 bar is 32psi, 2.6 is over 37psi
http://www.tvr-webmart.co.uk/tvr_info_psi.asp
But to compare a TVR with a GTI is like chalk and cheese! :jumping:
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:happy2: good advice, 2.6 (37psi) seems on the high side, even for the exaltos tbh
I run 2.2 (32 psi) all round
let us know how you get on ...
No - NEVER run below the manufacturers recommeded setting -which is 35psi front, and 35psi rear!
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44 psi TT :surprised:
may have to try that you crazy fool :stupid: :drinking:
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:happy2: good advice, 2.6 (37psi) seems on the high side, even for the exaltos tbh
I run 2.2 (32 psi) all round
let us know how you get on ...
No - NEVER run below the manufacturers recommeded setting -which is 35psi front, and 35psi rear!
Inside my fuel flap says 2.6 bar front and rear, fully loaded 2.8 and 3.2! :surprised:
Hence I run at around 38 - 40psi.
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2.6 is a little higher than I run and may feel a tad firm???
Try 2.4 F & 2.5R unloaded.
You'll need more in the fronts on a front wheel drive car - especially on the GTI.
On mine with PS2s all round, I run 44psi front, 35psi rear.
:happy2: good advice, 2.6 (37psi) seems on the high side, even for the exaltos tbh
I run 2.2 (32 psi) all round
let us know how you get on ...
No - NEVER run below the manufacturers recommeded setting -which is 35psi front, and 35psi rear!
I disagree.
For one, my old 150PD Anniversary MKIV's recommended pressure was 32PSI - factory supplied with 18" wheels and PSs, so the sticker in the fuel flap was for that wheel/tyre spec. I wouldn't say my MKV was significantly heavier (in fact, I think it is lighter), so my pressures are well within the tyre's range.
Also, the fronts heat up, and therefore increase in pressure much more than the rears. This evens things out. You don't want a greasy, understeery front end and loads of grip on the rear, well unless you're de-GTIing the GTI.
Finally I think running 44PSI is dangerous and I'm surprised you're recommending it. On a spirited drive I can see my pressures come up by around 4-6PSI depending on the weather, by that same reckoning, you'd be near or at the maximum limit of 50PSI and serious risk of tyre failure.
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44 psi TT :surprised:
may have to try that you crazy fool :stupid: :drinking:
TBH, it isn't actually far off the fully loaded pressure anyway!
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:happy2: good advice, 2.6 (37psi) seems on the high side, even for the exaltos tbh
I run 2.2 (32 psi) all round
let us know how you get on ...
No - NEVER run below the manufacturers recommeded setting -which is 35psi front, and 35psi rear!
Inside my fuel flap says 2.6 bar front and rear, fully loaded 2.8 and 3.2! :surprised:
Hence I run at around 38 - 40psi.
I think on the other forum, there was a thread on different tyre pressure stickers on identical spec GITs - did you GTI come with 17s as standard?
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Finally I think running 44PSI is dangerous and I'm surprised you're recommending it. On a spirited drive I can see my pressures come up by around 4-6PSI depending on the weather, by that same reckoning, you'd be near or at the maximum limit of 50PSI and serious risk of tyre failure.
What an utter load of bollox! I supposed you think I should get locked up for attempted manslaughter by running 85psi in my bicycle tyres!
HTF can 44psi be dangerous? What about the 61psi in the space saver - do we have to have a 'Hazardous Substance' warning sticker on our tailgates!
The mind boggles how you can even post such statements! :stupid:
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The mind boggles how you can even post such statements! :stupid:
I think he was talking about the maximum limit printed on the side of the tyres. IIRC, they state you should not exceed 50psi.
I think the confusion arises about the 50psi:
- is it 50psi when the tyres are cold?
or
- is it 50psi max (which means that potentially 50psi could be reached and breached if the tyres are say at 48 psi and then the pressure increases due to temp when driving)?
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^^^^
Re tyre temperatures, I'm finding it fascinating how much the tyre temps vary during a drive via my TyreSure TPMS.
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:happy2: good advice, 2.6 (37psi) seems on the high side, even for the exaltos tbh
I run 2.2 (32 psi) all round
let us know how you get on ...
No - NEVER run below the manufacturers recommeded setting -which is 35psi front, and 35psi rear!
Some manufactures recommend their own Psi settings.
Vedesteins must be 40psi as ive been told by the retailer.
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:happy2: good advice, 2.6 (37psi) seems on the high side, even for the exaltos tbh
I run 2.2 (32 psi) all round
let us know how you get on ...
No - NEVER run below the manufacturers recommeded setting -which is 35psi front, and 35psi rear!
Inside my fuel flap says 2.6 bar front and rear, fully loaded 2.8 and 3.2! :surprised:
Hence I run at around 38 - 40psi.
I think on the other forum, there was a thread on different tyre pressure stickers on identical spec GITs - did you GTI come with 17s as standard?
Nope, Edition 30 comes standard on 18's.
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The mind boggles how you can even post such statements! :stupid:
I think he was talking about the maximum limit printed on the side of the tyres. IIRC, they state you should not exceed 50psi.
Can I kindly suggest you actually read the full text on the side of the tyre to which that comment relates to! I'll give you a clue - it does NOT apply to the UK or EU. :wink:
I think the confusion arises about the 50psi:
- is it 50psi when the tyres are cold?
There is absolutely NO confusion. Tyre pressures (on tyres for highway use, so not 'specialists' such as F1 slicks, or Dakar sand tyres, or whatever) should ONLY be checked when the tyre is cold, and at the ambient air temperature. You can read every handbook or workshop manual on the planet, and I'd strongly bet that it will categorically tell you NOT to check (and more importantly, adjust) tyre pressures when the tyre is hot. And just to clarify, a tyre can heat up in as little as half a mile.
or
- is it 50psi max (which means that potentially 50psi could be reached and breached if the tyres are say at 48 psi and then the pressure increases due to temp when driving)?
Tyres are categorically and specifically designed to cope with increases in pressue as the tyre heats up - and they have absoultely MASSIVE threasholds for 'overinflation'.
The 'dangerous' scenarious which can wreck a tyre is excessive heat, and NOT excessive pressure. And one of the primary causes of excessive heat in a tyre is too LOW a tyre pressure.
I've regularly inflated road-legal tyres to over 140psi - and have NEVER had a tyre fail due to over pressure!
Sadly, there is some clearly very serious cases of uneducated and/or 'old skool' 'head in the sand' opinions regarding tyre pressures.!!
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....
My GTI originally came with 17's and this is the fuel flap info : -
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FTyrePressures_label.jpg&hash=31406415a74472a0ab651f7506c1b5f4f52aa1c3)
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^^^^
Re tyre temperatures, I'm finding it fascinating how much the tyre temps vary during a drive via my TyreSure TPMS.
Yes, they certainly do fluctuate - and whilst it may seem a little unusual at first, you will (hopefully) soon get to know how your tyres behave. :smiley:
Rain can throw up some interesting readings, as can when the car is parked outside for a long time, and the sun is only heating up one side of the car. :wink:
Anyway, I can't remember if you answered this or not in your original post - do you have to mount any kind of receiver in each wheel arch to pick up the individual wheel sensors? Or are the receivers all self contained in the main unit? :confused:
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:happy2: good advice, 2.6 (37psi) seems on the high side, even for the exaltos tbh
I run 2.2 (32 psi) all round
let us know how you get on ...
No - NEVER run below the manufacturers recommeded setting -which is 35psi front, and 35psi rear!
Some manufactures recommend their own Psi settings.
Vedesteins must be 40psi as ive been told by the retailer.
Exactly. Different tyres all perform slightly differently.
And the crucial word in that above post is 'recommend'. Tyre pressures have ALWAYS been a RECOMMENDATION - and not some absolute 'sheeple' measurement or setting.
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And just to clarify, a tyre can heat up in as little as half a mile.
....Based on the data my TyreSure TPMS is displaying I've been surprised how long and not how quickly the tyres have taken to heat up. Bear in mind that I'm not ragging it from the word go.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FTyreSure_temp.jpg&hash=0597bb130e33b5ce6a46268fb9db8d6bb771cfeb)
^ Pic to illustrate the source of info rather than the specific values displayed ^
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:happy2: good advice, 2.6 (37psi) seems on the high side, even for the exaltos tbh
I run 2.2 (32 psi) all round
let us know how you get on ...
No - NEVER run below the manufacturers recommeded setting -which is 35psi front, and 35psi rear!
Inside my fuel flap says 2.6 bar front and rear, fully loaded 2.8 and 3.2! :surprised:
Hence I run at around 38 - 40psi.
I think on the other forum, there was a thread on different tyre pressure stickers on identical spec GITs - did you GTI come with 17s as standard?
Nope, Edition 30 comes standard on 18's.
Doh, my bad - completely forgot you had an Ed30! :ashamed:
I'll go and stand in the corner with the dunces cap on for 15 minutes - is that long enough? :evilgrin:
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Anyway, I can't remember if you answered this or not in your original post - do you have to mount any kind of receiver in each wheel arch to pick up the individual wheel sensors? Or are the receivers all self contained in the main unit? :confused:
....A reciever transmitter in each wheel with the valve and not in the wheel arch.
I wrote a review here : - TyreSure Wireless Monitor.... (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8314.0)
:happy2:
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....
My GTI originally came with 17's and this is the fuel flap info : -
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FTyrePressures_label.jpg&hash=31406415a74472a0ab651f7506c1b5f4f52aa1c3)
And that is exactly the same sticker I have on mine with factory 18"s ???? Yet there are other stickers too for GTIs???? So has VW c0cked up somewhere? Because the load index for 17" tyres is different from the 18" boots?
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Anyway, I can't remember if you answered this or not in your original post - do you have to mount any kind of receiver in each wheel arch to pick up the individual wheel sensors? Or are the receivers all self contained in the main unit? :confused:
....A reciever transmitter in each wheel with the valve and not in the wheel arch.
I wrote a review here : - TyreSure Wireless Monitor.... (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8314.0)
:happy2:
Thanks - yes, I knew that your kit had the transmitters in the new valves, which get mounted on the inside of the rim - but when something 'transmits' - then there also needs to be a 'receiver' too.
So on cars with factory fitted 'direct acting TPMS' (direct acting means it measures the actual pressure, rather than uses wheel rotational differences from the wheel speed sensors) such as Renaults, Vauxhalls and Audis - they use those same valve transmitters as you have in your TyreSure kit, but they also have four remote 'antenna' in each wheel arch. So basically, not only are the actual tyre valves 'coded' to the TPMS 'head unit' (for want of a better phrase), but also the wheels are 'positioned' on the vehicle too.
-
Thanks - yes, I knew that your kit had the transmitters in the new valves, which get mounted on the inside of the rim - but when something 'transmits' - then there also needs to be a 'receiver' too.
So on cars with factory fitted 'direct acting TPMS' (direct acting means it measures the actual pressure, rather than uses wheel rotational differences from the wheel speed sensors) such as Renaults, Vauxhalls and Audis - they use those same valve transmitters as you have in your TyreSure kit, but they also have four remote 'antenna' in each wheel arch. So basically, not only are the actual tyre valves 'coded' to the TPMS 'head unit' (for want of a better phrase), but also the wheels are 'positioned' on the vehicle too.
....No antennae in the wheel arches but you do have to 'connect' the wheel positions individually to the display unit as part of the setup. You then revise it as you revise tyre positions etc.
[We ought to be discussing this in the review thread]
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Can I kindly suggest you actually read the full text on the side of the tyre to which that comment relates to! I'll give you a clue - it does NOT apply to the UK or EU. :wink:
Honestly, TT it was something I noticed but didn't pay much attention to. I've never needed to inflate the tyres above 40psi! Will have a closer look tomorrow!
There is absolutely NO confusion.
I'm not the one confused TT. I've only ever checked my tyres when cold - as we've discussed in person - using a PCL type guage in the mornings when the atmosphere is cooler. I'm a good boy! :innocent:
I inferred that the previous poster may have been confused/misinformed about the '50psi' warning and may have interpreted it as not to exceed 50psi at all (so s/he may have thought that the limit would have been exceeded when the tyres were hot rather than exceeding the limit when tyres were cold, if that makes any sense!).
And just to clarify, a tyre can heat up in as little as half a mile.
Which is something you reminded me at the JKM meet and hence have never bothered checking tyre pressures unless when cold.
Tyres are categorically and specifically designed to cope with increases in pressue as the tyre heats up - and they have absoultely MASSIVE threasholds for 'overinflation'.
This is something I'm well aware of but wasn't sure whether the previous poster was!
I've regularly inflated road-legal tyres to over 140psi - and have NEVER had a tyre fail due to over pressure!
For educational purposes, why would you do this?
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Finally I think running 44PSI is dangerous and I'm surprised you're recommending it. On a spirited drive I can see my pressures come up by around 4-6PSI depending on the weather, by that same reckoning, you'd be near or at the maximum limit of 50PSI and serious risk of tyre failure.
What an utter load of bollox! I supposed you think I should get locked up for attempted manslaughter by running 85psi in my bicycle tyres!
HTF can 44psi be dangerous? What about the 61psi in the space saver - do we have to have a 'Hazardous Substance' warning sticker on our tailgates!
The mind boggles how you can even post such statements! :stupid:
I don't know, what does it say on the sidewall of your bicycle or the spacesaver regarding the maximimum permissable inflation?
I know for a FACT it says you DO NOT EXCEED 50PSI on the sidewall of a 225/40/18 Michelin PS2, and that is what we're talking about here after all... not bicycles, not egos, just PS2s.
You admit that tyre pressures can go up by a marked amount further up in this thread, yes? You therefore MUST accept that your tyres, at 44PSI when hot, will be reaching upwards of the tyre manufacturers MAXIMUM limit??
Am I wrong in that statement?
If you're happy to explrore the "thresholds" of the tyre, then fine - crack on.
If you're telling me I'm an idiot for running 2PSI under recommended when I've accounted for my tyres getting hotter than the fuel flaps "middle of the road" settings... why am I not granted the same threshold?
In my opinion though, you are handing out dangerous advice to people clouded by an arrogance of 'having to be right', even when you probably know better.
Immeadiately dropping to base level of insult and aggression is the act of a child, you should be ashamed of yourself.
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:popcornsoda: this smiley will be getting tired with how many uses it's had of late
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I know for a FACT it says you DO NOT EXCEED 50PSI on the sidewall of a 225/40/18 Michelin PS2, and that is what we're talking about here after all... not bicycles, not egos, just PS2s.
You admit that tyre pressures can go up by a marked amount further up in this thread, yes? You therefore MUST accept that your tyres, at 44PSI when hot, will be reaching upwards of the tyre manufacturers MAXIMUM limit??
See, I saw something like that and interpreted it as not exceeding 50psi when the tyres are cold, as that's when you're supposed to check (and adjust) the pressures.
Given that tyres vary in their pressure as you drive, combined with weather conditions, you cannot guarantee what pressures you might reach when say driving on a long journey on a hot day with a full load. If you set the tyre pressures at, say 42psi, you may exceed 50psi, in which case you risk tyre failure. In this case, it would be negligent for the manufacturers if they did not put a lower limit eg 40psi, so that 50psi is never reached.
It may be the case that the PS2s bugger up after 60psi, so to keep on the safe side, Michelin may have used 50psi as a safety limit as exceeding this would mean the possibility of exceeding 60psi when driving would be prevented.
After all, unless you have a TPMS like RR, you're not gonna stop on the motorway at intervals just to check tyre pressures. :grin:
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Yes, but it is exponential. The more air in the tyre, the more there is to expand.
My average increase at 34 may be 5PSI hot. At 44PSI it could be 10PSI - I have used my average as a conservative estimate.
The point is he's allowing himself all that threshold, yet a touch below is making him spit bile.
A tyre at that pressure on a car of our weight is a greasy mess and makes driving it like trying to keep a cat in a bath tub.
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Given that tyres vary in their pressure as you drive, combined with weather conditions, you cannot guarantee what pressures you might reach when say driving on a long journey on a hot day with a full load. If you set the tyre pressures at, say 42psi, you may exceed 50psi, in which case you risk tyre failure. In this case, it would be negligent for the manufacturers if they did not put a lower limit eg 40psi, so that 50psi is never reached.
It may be the case that the PS2s bugger up after 60psi, so to keep on the safe side, Michelin may have used 50psi as a safety limit as exceeding this would mean the possibility of exceeding 60psi when driving would be prevented.
After all, unless you have a TPMS like RR, you're not gonna stop on the motorway at intervals just to check tyre pressures. :grin:
....So far - A varied journey on Tuesday of 512 miles and 100 today, both in all sorts of conditions and speeds - I have found that the pressures have only fluctuated about 3 psi. Whereas the tyre temperatures have fluctuated as much as 15ºC and the fronts are mostly hotter than the rears (as you would expect).
^ This is according to my TyreSure TPMS.
-
Thanks - yes, I knew that your kit had the transmitters in the new valves, which get mounted on the inside of the rim - but when something 'transmits' - then there also needs to be a 'receiver' too.
So on cars with factory fitted 'direct acting TPMS' (direct acting means it measures the actual pressure, rather than uses wheel rotational differences from the wheel speed sensors) such as Renaults, Vauxhalls and Audis - they use those same valve transmitters as you have in your TyreSure kit, but they also have four remote 'antenna' in each wheel arch. So basically, not only are the actual tyre valves 'coded' to the TPMS 'head unit' (for want of a better phrase), but also the wheels are 'positioned' on the vehicle too.
....No antennae in the wheel arches but you do have to 'connect' the wheel positions individually to the display unit as part of the setup. You then revise it as you revise tyre positions etc.
[We ought to be discussing this in the review thread]
OK, do you wanna ask the mods to copy the relevent posts over! :happy2:
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Can I kindly suggest you actually read the full text on the side of the tyre to which that comment relates to! I'll give you a clue - it does NOT apply to the UK or EU. :wink:
Honestly, TT it was something I noticed but didn't pay much attention to. I've never needed to inflate the tyres above 40psi! Will have a closer look tomorrow!
:happy2:
There is absolutely NO confusion.
I'm not the one confused TT. I've only ever checked my tyres when cold - as we've discussed in person - using a PCL type guage in the mornings when the atmosphere is cooler. I'm a good boy! :innocent:
Sorry mate, I didn't mean to imply you personally were confused - more of a 'general' comment. :wink:
I inferred that the previous poster may have been confused/misinformed about the '50psi' warning and may have interpreted it as not to exceed 50psi at all (so s/he may have thought that the limit would have been exceeded when the tyres were hot rather than exceeding the limit when tyres were cold, if that makes any sense!).
Exactly - and he still hasn't got it! :stupid:
And just to clarify, a tyre can heat up in as little as half a mile.
Which is something you reminded me at the JKM meet and hence have never bothered checking tyre pressures unless when cold.
:happy2:
Tyres are categorically and specifically designed to cope with increases in pressue as the tyre heats up - and they have absoultely MASSIVE threasholds for 'overinflation'.
This is something I'm well aware of but wasn't sure whether the previous poster was!
Again, not at you mate, but arrogance is bliss elsewhere, if you get my drift! :wink:
I've regularly inflated road-legal tyres to over 140psi - and have NEVER had a tyre fail due to over pressure!
For educational purposes, why would you do this?
Think BIG, very big. :wink:
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You mean like lorries and tractors? But surely the tyres are designed to withstand such pressure on such vehicles?
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Finally I think running 44PSI is dangerous and I'm surprised you're recommending it. On a spirited drive I can see my pressures come up by around 4-6PSI depending on the weather, by that same reckoning, you'd be near or at the maximum limit of 50PSI and serious risk of tyre failure.
What an utter load of bollox! I supposed you think I should get locked up for attempted manslaughter by running 85psi in my bicycle tyres!
HTF can 44psi be dangerous? What about the 61psi in the space saver - do we have to have a 'Hazardous Substance' warning sticker on our tailgates!
The mind boggles how you can even post such statements! :stupid:
I don't know, what does it say on the sidewall of your bicycle or the spacesaver regarding the maximimum permissable inflation?
Well then maybe you ought to check before making such sweeping statements as you did earlier in the thread. Yes, sure, a bicycle tyre is a bit of an extreme and slighty irelevant example - but a spacesaver is categorically NOT irellevent!
I know for a FACT it says you DO NOT EXCEED 50PSI on the sidewall of a 225/40/18 Michelin PS2,
The you have just completely shot yourself - because that IS NOT RELEVENT TO UK OR EU MARKETS. It form no legal requirements, nor no 'advisory' requirements either. You are massively out of your depth in this particular issue!
and that is what we're talking about here after all... not bicycles, not egos, just PS2s.
You seem to be the one with the massive 'ego' problem. Because you categorically DID NOT state we were just dealing with PS2s. Talk about moving the goal posts! :stupid:
You admit that tyre pressures can go up by a marked amount further up in this thread, yes? You therefore MUST accept that your tyres, at 44PSI when hot, will be reaching upwards of the tyre manufacturers MAXIMUM limit??
Am I wrong in that statement?
Of course you are wrong! You are massively wrong - on two counts.
First, tyre pressures should ONLY be checked when the tyre is COLD. Pressures are NOT the limiting factor. It is the upper limits of tyre TEMPERATURES which are the limitiing factors - why the heck do you think that they don't bother with measuring the pressures - but DO measure temperatures - during motorsports meetings?
Secondy, simple laws of physics dictate that pressures will rise when a tyre heats up. This is PERFECTLY NORMAL - and provding the temperature doesn't rise too much, is perfectly within design parameters. Or do you not think that tyre manufacturers didn't realise that tyres get warm during use!
If you're happy to explrore the "thresholds" of the tyre, then fine - crack on.
So what do you think you are doing? Pot, kettle and black come to mind. :fighting:
At least I have a professionally educated understanding of what I am doing!
If you're telling me I'm an idiot for running 2PSI under recommended when I've accounted for my tyres getting hotter than the fuel flaps "middle of the road" settings... why am I not granted the same threshold?
I never said you personally were an 'idiot'. What I did say was that it is recommended never to go below the recommended settings. And as I've also pointed out - they are just 'recommendations'. Furthermore, in many other threads, I've explained the 'science' behind how tyre pressures can be 'adjusted' or tweaked.
And for the record, I don't have a problem with you personally running lower pressures - afterall, its your car, and your own 'butt dyno' should be giving you first hand feed back of what the car is doing. But I do have a problem when peeps make a sweeping statement to others to lower their pressures - especially when there is a shed load of info in the public domain about how dangerous under-inflated tyres are.
In my opinion though, you are handing out dangerous advice to people clouded by an arrogance of 'having to be right', even when you probably know better.
But my advice is NOT dangerous. My advice is supported by the Tyre Industry Council, along with all the major tyre manufacturers, and most modern car manufacturers - who ALL now state that cars should be run ALL the time on the 'full load' pressures (unless there is some exceptional over-riding reason not to). Or do you also think that the TIC and all the tyre manufactures, and the vehicle manufacturers are wrong - and are giving out dangerous advice?
Immeadiately dropping to base level of insult and aggression is the act of a child, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Huh - black cooking items again. Or is it just you who somehow has an absolute right to make unqualified dangerous statements - whilst being exempt from challenges?
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:popcornsoda: this smiley will be getting tired with how many uses it's had of late
Best you get a massive tub of Ben and Jerrys - Phish Food for me, and get some extra spoons too! :happy2: :laugh:
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I know for a FACT it says you DO NOT EXCEED 50PSI on the sidewall of a 225/40/18 Michelin PS2, and that is what we're talking about here after all... not bicycles, not egos, just PS2s.
You admit that tyre pressures can go up by a marked amount further up in this thread, yes? You therefore MUST accept that your tyres, at 44PSI when hot, will be reaching upwards of the tyre manufacturers MAXIMUM limit??
See, I saw something like that and interpreted it as not exceeding 50psi when the tyres are cold, as that's when you're supposed to check (and adjust) the pressures.
You are correct with your wisdom on the cold tyre pressures. But as the old saying goes "a little knowledge can be a bad thing" (or sommat along those lines) - the devil is in the detail. Those maximum pressures are NOT for the UK or Europe (nor are they for Asia, Australasia, Africa, or South America) - they are specific to half of one continent and have bu&&er all to do with us.
Given that tyres vary in their pressure as you drive, combined with weather conditions, you cannot guarantee what pressures you might reach when say driving on a long journey on a hot day with a full load. If you set the tyre pressures at, say 42psi, you may exceed 50psi, in which case you risk tyre failure. In this case, it would be negligent for the manufacturers if they did not put a lower limit eg 40psi, so that 50psi is never reached.
You are making great sence with your theories and deducements. :happy2:
It may be the case that the PS2s bugger up after 60psi, so to keep on the safe side, Michelin may have used 50psi as a safety limit as exceeding this would mean the possibility of exceeding 60psi when driving would be prevented.
But this is where you come to a grinding halt in your progress.
Tyre pressures are NOT the limiting safety factor. It is ONLY tyre temperature.
Secondly, Michelin, like all other tyres supplied to US markets - MUST, in order to comply with their US Department for Transportation (DOT) - state things like maximum pressures. Just like in microwave instruction manuals, they have to categorically state that the microwave must NOT be used to dry out live pets (little doggies who got wet in a rain shower). The Yanks have a very 'agressive' sue you strategy - which is why virtually everything from tyres to test tubes must have incredibly specific, and anal instructions of what you can and can not do.
After all, unless you have a TPMS like RR, you're not gonna stop on the motorway at intervals just to check tyre pressures. :grin:
Exactly. And furthermore, it is exactly for the reason of tyres heating up, and therefore increasing in pressure - that manufacturer fitted direct acting TMPS are calibrated and set up NOT to warn you of increases in tyre pressures. :wink:
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Yes, but it is exponential. The more air in the tyre, the more there is to expand.
More BS. Air is compressible. The tyre contains a fixed volume - so there is NO expansion. Once a tyre is inflated, it assumes a nominal volume, and that volume will remain static irrespective of weather it has 30 psi or 130 psi.
The point is he's allowing himself all that threshold, yet a touch below is making him spit bile.
I'm making a point of 'my threshold' simply because that is an 'industry standard' - and not some personal whim which you seem to think.
A tyre at that pressure on a car of our weight is a greasy mess and makes driving it like trying to keep a cat in a bath tub.
What an utter load of nonsence. Just how much force do you think goes into your front tyres when when you press the middle pedal v.hard at say 70mph - especially with your added Alcons?
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Given that tyres vary in their pressure as you drive, combined with weather conditions, you cannot guarantee what pressures you might reach when say driving on a long journey on a hot day with a full load. If you set the tyre pressures at, say 42psi, you may exceed 50psi, in which case you risk tyre failure. In this case, it would be negligent for the manufacturers if they did not put a lower limit eg 40psi, so that 50psi is never reached.
It may be the case that the PS2s bugger up after 60psi, so to keep on the safe side, Michelin may have used 50psi as a safety limit as exceeding this would mean the possibility of exceeding 60psi when driving would be prevented.
After all, unless you have a TPMS like RR, you're not gonna stop on the motorway at intervals just to check tyre pressures. :grin:
....So far - A varied journey on Tuesday of 512 miles and 100 today, both in all sorts of conditions and speeds - I have found that the pressures have only fluctuated about 3 psi. Whereas the tyre temperatures have fluctuated as much as 15ºC and the fronts are mostly hotter than the rears (as you would expect).
^ This is according to my TyreSure TPMS.
And have you noticed any difference, mainly in temperatures, between 'normal' driving - and then compared it with a few repeated heavy braking occurances (letting those big APs do some serious work :happy2:) ?
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You mean like lorries and tractors? But surely the tyres are designed to withstand such pressure on such vehicles?
In some occurances, yes, in others no. And whilst truck tyres may be designed to carry extra weight, and the associated forces - the steel in the bead is identical to a normal car tyre, the carcass materials are the same, even the rubber is fairly similar. And what is more interesting - truck and bus roadwheels are made to exactly the same set of standards and specifications as car roadwheels.
-
....So far - A varied journey on Tuesday of 512 miles and 100 today, both in all sorts of conditions and speeds - I have found that the pressures have only fluctuated about 3 psi. Whereas the tyre temperatures have fluctuated as much as 15ºC and the fronts are mostly hotter than the rears (as you would expect).
^ This is according to my TyreSure TPMS.
And have you noticed any difference, mainly in temperatures, between 'normal' driving - and then compared it with a few repeated heavy braking occurances (letting those big APs do some serious work :happy2:) ?
....As it's been very wet, I haven't had a proper opportunity to brake really hard and notice temps at the same time - I'll seek a safe opportunity in due course.
Putting aside the specific numeric values, it's very educational to see how things change relatively under different loading and conditions.
Of course in F1, races are won or lost according to tyre management and performance - It's a more specialist art/science.
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Because you're never wrong, are you? - cough cough, "S3/R32 CATEGORICALLY WON'T FIT A GOLF GTI - FACT" cough.
Hey, what does that ignore button do??
Ahhhhhhh..... life is now good.
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Because you're never wrong, are you? - cough cough, "S3/R32 CATEGORICALLY WON'T FIT A GOLF GTI - FACT" cough.
Erm . . . I have NEVER tried to state that I am never wrong. :fighting2:
And if you look back carfully through the forums on the S3/R32 rear brakes issue - yes, whilst it was my intial track of thought that they would not fit the GTI - I actually went to great pains to explain that that info came from various techs at my local VW stealer, and that I was just relaying their advice - just like what virtually every other person on this forum does (relays info from other sources). For the record, I am actually GLAD that I was wrong on this issue - as it is a mod which I intend to do (once I finalise what is going on up front). And if it makes you better - I offer you my personal appology for relaying such wrong information!
Hey, what does that ignore button do??
Ahhhhhhh..... life is now good.
Fine, if you like wearing blinkers, HAND and all that. :smiley:
But isn't it a little two-faced if you slag me off for getting things wrong, but YOU still can not admit you have this issue wrong - especially the max pressure issue! Hey ho.
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Hey, what does that ignore button do??
Perhaps you can report on your findings? :smiley:
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Hey, what does that ignore button do??
Perhaps you can report on your findings? :smiley:
Has he posted something?? I don't care, this is bliss....
I highly recommend ignoring him :happy2:
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^^^^
Just to try to restore a little balance to this, it's very well known that Sean (TT) and I have had many 'arguments' in various car forums all over the internet. I occasionally find his way of expressing himself extremely irritating and I know that some of the info I post (in good faith) greatly irritates him.
However, I personally wouldn't hit the ignore button on him or indeed on anyone else. Subjects are very rarely black and white and someone else's opinion is always interesting even if you think it's bollox. Besides we're human and there is occasionally a perverse enjoyment in witnessing an argument.
But, the ignore button is there for each of us to have the freedom to use it.
Perhaps TT and tony_d should try to sort out their differences by PM - It's worked for me and TT in the past.
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Finally I think running 44PSI is dangerous and I'm surprised you're recommending it. On a spirited drive I can see my pressures come up by around 4-6PSI depending on the weather, by that same reckoning, you'd be near or at the maximum limit of 50PSI and serious risk of tyre failure.
What an utter load of bollox! I supposed you think I should get locked up for attempted manslaughter by running 85psi in my bicycle tyres!
HTF can 44psi be dangerous? What about the 61psi in the space saver - do we have to have a 'Hazardous Substance' warning sticker on our tailgates!
The mind boggles how you can even post such statements! :stupid:
I don't know, what does it say on the sidewall of your bicycle or the spacesaver regarding the maximimum permissable inflation?
Well then maybe you ought to check before making such sweeping statements as you did earlier in the thread. Yes, sure, a bicycle tyre is a bit of an extreme and slighty irelevant example - but a spacesaver is categorically NOT irellevent!
I know for a FACT it says you DO NOT EXCEED 50PSI on the sidewall of a 225/40/18 Michelin PS2,
The you have just completely shot yourself - because that IS NOT RELEVENT TO UK OR EU MARKETS. It form no legal requirements, nor no 'advisory' requirements either. You are massively out of your depth in this particular issue!
and that is what we're talking about here after all... not bicycles, not egos, just PS2s.
You seem to be the one with the massive 'ego' problem. Because you categorically DID NOT state we were just dealing with PS2s. Talk about moving the goal posts! :stupid:
You admit that tyre pressures can go up by a marked amount further up in this thread, yes? You therefore MUST accept that your tyres, at 44PSI when hot, will be reaching upwards of the tyre manufacturers MAXIMUM limit??
Am I wrong in that statement?
Of course you are wrong! You are massively wrong - on two counts.
First, tyre pressures should ONLY be checked when the tyre is COLD. Pressures are NOT the limiting factor. It is the upper limits of tyre TEMPERATURES which are the limitiing factors - why the heck do you think that they don't bother with measuring the pressures - but DO measure temperatures - during motorsports meetings?
Secondy, simple laws of physics dictate that pressures will rise when a tyre heats up. This is PERFECTLY NORMAL - and provding the temperature doesn't rise too much, is perfectly within design parameters. Or do you not think that tyre manufacturers didn't realise that tyres get warm during use!
If you're happy to explrore the "thresholds" of the tyre, then fine - crack on.
So what do you think you are doing? Pot, kettle and black come to mind. :fighting:
At least I have a professionally educated understanding of what I am doing!
If you're telling me I'm an idiot for running 2PSI under recommended when I've accounted for my tyres getting hotter than the fuel flaps "middle of the road" settings... why am I not granted the same threshold?
I never said you personally were an 'idiot'. What I did say was that it is recommended never to go below the recommended settings. And as I've also pointed out - they are just 'recommendations'. Furthermore, in many other threads, I've explained the 'science' behind how tyre pressures can be 'adjusted' or tweaked.
And for the record, I don't have a problem with you personally running lower pressures - afterall, its your car, and your own 'butt dyno' should be giving you first hand feed back of what the car is doing. But I do have a problem when peeps make a sweeping statement to others to lower their pressures - especially when there is a shed load of info in the public domain about how dangerous under-inflated tyres are.
In my opinion though, you are handing out dangerous advice to people clouded by an arrogance of 'having to be right', even when you probably know better.
But my advice is NOT dangerous. My advice is supported by the Tyre Industry Council, along with all the major tyre manufacturers, and most modern car manufacturers - who ALL now state that cars should be run ALL the time on the 'full load' pressures (unless there is some exceptional over-riding reason not to). Or do you also think that the TIC and all the tyre manufactures, and the vehicle manufacturers are wrong - and are giving out dangerous advice?
Immeadiately dropping to base level of insult and aggression is the act of a child, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Huh - black cooking items again. Or is it just you who somehow has an absolute right to make unqualified dangerous statements - whilst being exempt from challenges?
to you find that running your tyre pressures that high TT wear the middle of the tyre out quicker
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What's to sort out, Robin?
I have simply exercised self censorship, much the same as when I deleted Radio 1 from my stereo.
As you say (well, you don’t actually, but I'm saying it in not so many words), he simply enjoys trolling various forums looking for an argument. A platform to ram his opinions down people's throats, no doubt because nobody will entertain him in real life.
Any question of his opinion whether correct or incorrect is met with aggression, shouting and insults, which I don't like. He especially doesn't seem to like sarcasm or being patronised, something I specialise in... but then the low skilled working classes never did appreciate sophisticated humour, that's why Bernard Manning's club was always full. Let's call it a clash of style.
If I ignore him, then I am no longer subjected to it, rather than getting embroiled in this farce - then I can't be accused of "baiting" him, admittedly something I have failed to resist the urge to do in this thread so far.
It’s for my own good, not his.
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You mean like lorries and tractors? But surely the tyres are designed to withstand such pressure on such vehicles?
In some occurances, yes, in others no. And whilst truck tyres may be designed to carry extra weight, and the associated forces - the steel in the bead is identical to a normal car tyre, the carcass materials are the same, even the rubber is fairly similar. And what is more interesting - truck and bus roadwheels are made to exactly the same set of standards and specifications as car roadwheels.
the difference in car tyres is they are 4ply meaning the wire is 4x
vans tractors wagons are 6ply upwards meaning they can accept more tyre pressure
ie a trailer tye 195-50-13 is 8ply and takes 90psi
think this has gone a bit of topic now
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golf gti on 225/45-17 91w tyres 32psi front 29psi rear
laden speed 35psi front 41psi rear,these are taking out of the michelin tyre fitment book we have at work
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Perhaps TT and tony_d should try to sort out their differences by PM - It's worked for me and TT in the past.
I fear my PMs may be . . . . ignored! :P :laugh:
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to you find that running your tyre pressures that high TT wear the middle of the tyre out quicker
Nope, not at all. Not on the Dunflops, nor the PS2s as used on the GTI. And on other cars when inflated higher than the recommended pressures - nor on ContiSportContact2s, nor Bridgestone S02, nor on Bridgestone ER30, nor on Bridgestone RE040, nor on the original Mich Pilot Sport, or the Pilot Exalto, or the Pilot SX, or the Pilot HX, not the Mich Energy, nor the Mich MXL, and nor the ContiEcoContact2, and nor the original ContiEcoContact, nor the Yokohama AVS Sport and AVS S1Z. So I have very considerable experience, over many, many years - of knowing it is perfectly safe, and does not produce any adverse or uneven wear - when running on a whole load of different tyres - at much higher pressures.
Actually, there was one tyre which did - and that was the Pirelli P Zero Rosso (from my RS4) - but then you had to run them high to get some semblence of stability. And when I binned them, there was a total lack of carcass strength - not only in the sidewalls, but more scarily in the tread area too. They were fairly light though. And come to think of it - EVERY flavour of Pirelli tyre has always been increadibly pressure sensitive in terms of even tread wear.
HTH
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You mean like lorries and tractors? But surely the tyres are designed to withstand such pressure on such vehicles?
In some occurances, yes, in others no. And whilst truck tyres may be designed to carry extra weight, and the associated forces - the steel in the bead is identical to a normal car tyre, the carcass materials are the same, even the rubber is fairly similar. And what is more interesting - truck and bus roadwheels are made to exactly the same set of standards and specifications as car roadwheels.
the difference in car tyres is they are 4ply meaning the wire is 4x
vans tractors wagons are 6ply upwards meaning they can accept more tyre pressure
ie a trailer tye 195-50-13 is 8ply and takes 90psi
Yes, agreed to a certain extent about the ply ratings. But when you look at a 4ply car tyre - which can carry say a 2.5 tonne car (fully loaded - total mass shared by all tyres) - doubling the ply rating to 8ply doesn't give you a total of 5 tonnes - but will actually take you into the 44 tonne realms (yes, there will be more wheels - but it is still possible to get a two axle tractor unit with just twin-rears above the fifth wheel) - it is actually the 'air pressure' which supports the load, not the 'ply rating'. Anyway - this is wayyyy to geeky for a PS2 thread.
think this has gone a bit of topic now
Not me, M'Lud, honest! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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golf gti on 225/45-17 91w tyres 32psi front 29psi rear
laden speed 35psi front 41psi rear,these are taking out of the michelin tyre fitment book we have at work
Sadly, the Michelin Car Tyre Fitment and Pressure Guide (I have one on my desk as I type) has some fundamental errors (covered by their 'obligatory' disclaimer) - because they list the Mk5 GTI as being available with 16" rims - in the UK market.
And regarding their stated tyre pressures - allow me to quote verbatum:
"The tyre pressures given in this book are for indication only.
Please refer to the vehicle manufacturer's advice (eg in the vehicle handbook, on the door pillar or fuel filler cap) for the specific tyre pressure information on a particular vehicle."
So it is pretty irellivent what Michelin themselves recommend. Those pressures recommended by tyre manufactures are generally just a 'ball park' figure for lazy tyre fitters, or tyre fitters who don't have access to the handbook or whatever.
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golf gti on 225/45-17 91w tyres 32psi front 29psi rear
laden speed 35psi front 41psi rear,these are taking out of the michelin tyre fitment book we have at work
Sadly, the Michelin Car Tyre Fitment and Pressure Guide (I have one on my desk as I type) has some fundamental errors (covered by their 'obligatory' disclaimer) - because they list the Mk5 GTI as being available with 16" rims - in the UK market.
And regarding their stated tyre pressures - allow me to quote verbatum:
"The tyre pressures given in this book are for indication only.
Please refer to the vehicle manufacturer's advice (eg in the vehicle handbook, on the door pillar or fuel filler cap) for the specific tyre pressure information on a particular vehicle."
So it is pretty irellivent what Michelin themselves recommend. Those pressures recommended by tyre manufactures are generally just a 'ball park' figure for lazy tyre fitters, or tyre fitters who don't have access to the handbook or whatever.
know what you mean about michelin ball point figures- i put 29psi in my 225-40-18 conti tyres but they where a bit soft--it could be because of my amps thou :signLOL:
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Would the Goodyear asymetric tyres be better than the directional ones, more specifically the GSD3's?
Am i correct in thinking directional and asymetric are suited to different cars?
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Would the Goodyear asymetric tyres be better than the directional ones, more specifically the GSD3's?
Am i correct in thinking directional and asymetric are suited to different cars?
....Asymmetrics are definitely a better allround tyre on the Mk5 GTI than directionals. I should qualify the term "better" by adding better in performance.
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Asymmetrics are massively better than directionals on ALL road cars. The only time directionals are good are on racing cars which corner flat and generate huge amounts of downforce.
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October 2010 update added to original post :happy2: