MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Technical Workshop => Topic started by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 17, 2010, 12:24:30 pm

Title: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 17, 2010, 12:24:30 pm
OK, I trust we all know the brake fluid must be changed every two years (at least).  :happy2:  And I also trust that some may also be aware that main stealers are supposed to hook up the VAS5051/5052 electronic diagnostic dooberys to 'cycle' the ABS/ESP unit, and that this can also be done with VCDS.

Now, I reckon many peeps (and indeed many main stealers - because they obviously didn't on my GTI  :fighting: - detail later) don't bother cycling the ABS/ESP when renewing the brake fluid.

Until now, my personal advice - for those of you who bleed your own brakes, was to try to use VCDS, but that it wasn't vital.  I've previously suggested to bleed the brakes using one of the conventional methods (either two-bod pumpy-pumpy, or with a one-man pressure bleeder), and then take the car for a spin, and 'exercise' the ABS/ESP systems (by doing a few hard stops on a slippery surface to activate the ABS, and a few wheelspins to activate the traction control).  And then go back and re-bleed the brakes.  And this was what I had previously done myself.

However, on my last brake fluid change, I did some experimenting.  I bled the brakes using the trad two-man pumpy method (200ml from left front, right front, left rear, right rear - then another 200ml from all four again).  I then hooked up VCDS and activated the relevant ABS functional tests (to activate all four individual circuits for 30 seconds) - and then bled all four again.  I was SHOCKED with the really black fluid which then came out.  It was clear to me that the fluid had been going stale in my ABS/ESP for four years.  :sick: :sad1: :mad: :scared: :fighting2: :stupid:


Now, the morale of this experience is very valid.  All VAG PQ35 platform cars (Golf Mk5, 8P A3/S3, TT Mk2, Leon Mk2, Octavia Mk2, Passat B6, Touran - and prolly some I've missed) all use a Continental Teves Mk60 ABS/ESP unit.  These Teves units are well-known to be unreliable.  The Touran forum is rife with real failures of these, costing owners £1500 to replace.  Many BMWs also use these Teves units, and again, are well-known to be very unreliable (especially when compared to the Bosch units which longitudinal Audis and Mercs, and Vauxhalls use).

So, I very strongly urge you all that you MUST activate the ABS/ESP unit via VCDS when changing brake fluid.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Rob GTI on October 17, 2010, 01:31:38 pm
Good timing this, I'm about to get my mechanic mate to change mine tommorrow. So how in VCDS and when do i activate the ABS pump, - I assume when emptying the current brake fluid??

Cheers. :drinking:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Rob GTI on October 17, 2010, 01:33:10 pm
PS I would have hit the thank you button but can't see one in this sub forum  :laugh:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 17, 2010, 02:08:49 pm
Good timing this, I'm about to get my mechanic mate to change mine tommorrow.
:happy2:


So how in VCDS and when do i activate the ABS pump, - I assume when emptying the current brake fluid??
OK, firstly, you should never 'empty' the old fluid (unless you are changing to a brake fluid from Satan - ie a silicone DOT5).  If your fluid in your master cyl resevoir is particularly manky, then syphon it off with a turkey baster or similar - but DO NOT then touch the brake pedal or open the nipples until it is topped up with fresh fluid.  If brake fluid is changed regularly, then it is simply a matter of pumping a quarter of a litre of fluid from each nipple, keeping the MC res topped up.

For using VCDS (or the OEM VAS5051 or VAS50502), you need a minimum of 11.5 volts in the battery.  Fire up VCDS, click on 'Select Control Module', 03-ABS brakes - then . . . . I can't remember (senior moment) . . . I think it is 'output tests' (or similar).  Basically, on the Golf, it takes you through various system functional tests for the four individual circuits.  If you have never done this before - you might sh!t yourself when the pedal starts grinding away really loudly - don't worry - this is perfectly NORMAL.  Oh, and if you are a weakling, you'll prolly get leg ache from holding the pedal so hard. :ashamed:  Now when it does its 'grinding' bit on each wheel circuit, you need to let it grind away for at least 30 seconds (this is what gives the leg ache!) for each wheel.

Then go round each wheel and bleed again.  Don't be shy about using 2 litres of fluid - more is definatly better in this respect.

Oh - and if you have a manual gearbox, don't forget to bleed your clutch too.

Then go and  :driver:

HTH
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 17, 2010, 02:10:37 pm
PS I would have hit the thank you button but can't see one in this sub forum  :laugh:
Haha - wondered why my thank-you count was low! :sad1:

Maybe time to press the Admins into enabling thank-you function on the teccy sections!  :wink:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Rob GTI on October 17, 2010, 05:41:38 pm

So how in VCDS and when do i activate the ABS pump, - I assume when emptying the current brake fluid??
OK, firstly, you should never 'empty' the old fluid (unless you are changing to a brake fluid from Satan - ie a silicone DOT5).  If your fluid in your master cyl resevoir is particularly manky, then syphon it off with a turkey baster or similar - but DO NOT then touch the brake pedal or open the nipples until it is topped up with fresh fluid.  If brake fluid is changed regularly, then it is simply a matter of pumping a quarter of a litre of fluid from each nipple, keeping the MC res topped up.

For using VCDS (or the OEM VAS5051 or VAS50502), you need a minimum of 11.5 volts in the battery.  Fire up VCDS, click on 'Select Control Module', 03-ABS brakes - then . . . . I can't remember (senior moment) . . . I think it is 'output tests' (or similar).  Basically, on the Golf, it takes you through various system functional tests for the four individual circuits.  If you have never done this before - you might sh!t yourself when the pedal starts grinding away really loudly - don't worry - this is perfectly NORMAL.  Oh, and if you are a weakling, you'll prolly get leg ache from holding the pedal so hard. :ashamed:  Now when it does its 'grinding' bit on each wheel circuit, you need to let it grind away for at least 30 seconds (this is what gives the leg ache!) for each wheel.

Then go round each wheel and bleed again.  Don't be shy about using 2 litres of fluid - more is definatly better in this respect.

Oh - and if you have a manual gearbox, don't forget to bleed your clutch too.

Then go and  :driver:

HTH
[/quote]


So basically when you open the ABS pump via VCDS it lets the fluid into the system which is in turn bled out? I take it the clutch uses the same fluid as the brakes hence requiring to be bled?


Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 17, 2010, 05:47:45 pm
So basically when you open the ABS pump via VCDS it lets the fluid into the system which is in turn bled out?
Basically, yes.  The ABS/ESP unit has its own integral hydraulic circuits and pumps.  During normal bleeding, these seem to be bypassed.


I take it the clutch uses the same fluid as the brakes hence requiring to be bled?
Yup, fed from the same resevoir on the brake master cylinder.
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Rob GTI on October 17, 2010, 06:37:15 pm
Old fashioned thank you  :happy2:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 17, 2010, 07:24:03 pm
Old fashioned thank you  :happy2:

You're welcome.  Let us know if you experience the same black flush!
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: john_o on October 17, 2010, 08:27:47 pm
playing devils advocate then TT ...

why dont VW then specify that this is done at fluid change time ?

and if I activate the ABS the old fashioned way, will it not it some way mitigate the problem and flush/dilute some of the fluid?
(pretty easy if its wet) , albeit not very safe!
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 18, 2010, 10:32:51 am
playing devils advocate then TT ...

why dont VW then specify that this is done at fluid change time ?
They do - categorically.  ELSA (the official VW electronic workshop manual) clearly describes, and STATES that the bleeding MUST be done with either VAS5051 or 5052.  The issue is that most VW stealers employ utter incompetent 'technicians' - one at my local can hardly read! - and those who can actually read can't be ar$ed to follow ELSA.  A classic example - how many stealers use a T40057 when changing oil on the 2.0 TFSI?


and if I activate the ABS the old fashioned way, will it not it some way mitigate the problem and flush/dilute some of the fluid?
(pretty easy if its wet) , albeit not very safe!
Not really.  That is how I have done it until recently, and it was pretty clear it didn't do the trick - brake fluid as black as coal is not good!  Modern ESP systems are considerably more 'technical' compared to just plain ABS systems.  ESP is a 'proactive' system, whereas ABS is 'reactive'.  Basically, an ESP will actively 'pre-charge' all four hydraulic circuits when the engine is running - older ABS didn't.

The other issue with activating the ABS is that it is very unlikely that all four circuits will be activated - never mind being activated long enough to usefully flush enough fluid through.
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: vRSAlex on October 18, 2010, 10:41:07 am
Great advice TT.  There are many garages that dont do this and even dont know how to do this.  Some of the fluid thats come out of ABS pumps ive replaced has been near sludge consistancy.

Make sure you ask the garage to bleed the ABS and if they cant then take it somewhere that can.

Its also worth asking them to bleed through the clutch too as many dont do that either.
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 18, 2010, 12:13:04 pm
Great advice TT. 
:happy2: :drinking:


There are many garages that dont do this and even dont know how to do this.
Agreed - and whilst it may be understandable for the small independent garage - it is completely disgraceful that official VW garages are not doing this.


Some of the fluid thats come out of ABS pumps ive replaced has been near sludge consistancy.
But the other killer of modern ESP systems is incorrect brake fluid.  Motul RBF600 and other 'race' fluids may be superb on the track - but they really fcuk ESP units.  I keep bashing on about the importance of this - only special low viscosity fluids should be used - which is why since 2006, the ONLY fluid officially permitted in by VWAG is one which meets VW501.14 - an ordinary DOT4, or even DOT5.1 fluids are not authorised by VWAG.


Its also worth asking them to bleed through the clutch too as many dont do that either.
Yup, agreed.   How do find clutch bleeding on Audi A4s?
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: dajonic on October 18, 2010, 12:20:58 pm
You refer to bleeding the clutch on a manual. Is this not required on the DSG box?
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 18, 2010, 12:34:06 pm
You refer to bleeding the clutch on a manual. Is this not required on the DSG box?
Errrrrr . . . . . no!

Unless you have three pedals!
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: vRSAlex on October 18, 2010, 12:46:42 pm
In a way you can bleed a DSG, but its done through a computer and resets all the adaptions  :love:

The A4's/A6's dont come in too often for brake fluid changes, but its a tad awkward to bleed them.  The clutches dont always pressure bleed that well so a few pumps of the pedal is often required.

TT - How do you find SRF with the ABS?
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 18, 2010, 02:18:18 pm
In a way you can bleed a DSG, but its done through a computer and resets all the adaptions  :love:
Talk about playing with words! :P  Anyway, if you just re-adapt the DSG, then you are still using the same fluid (and it aint no DOT4)!


The A4's/A6's dont come in too often for brake fluid changes, but its a tad awkward to bleed them.  The clutches dont always pressure bleed that well so a few pumps of the pedal is often required.
But how do you access the clutch bleed nipples? :popcornsoda:  Unless you have hands like a pixie, with 46 joints in your arm - it is virtually impossible to even get your hand in there, never mind an 11mm spanner to crack the nipple!


TT - How do you find SRF with the ABS?
I've no interest in sending my ABS/ESP to an early grave, so I won't be using SRF or RBF or any other race fluid.  These types of fluid are meant for very specific racing applications, where the ABS has been physically removed from the vehicle.  If any trader or workshop uses these type of fluids in any road car with ESP - then they should clearly document the customer that they may toast their ESP unit.
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Rob GTI on October 18, 2010, 10:59:13 pm
Old fashioned thank you  :happy2:

You're welcome.  Let us know if you experience the same black flush!

Well all done,  :driver: You are right its a bit if a oh sh*t moment when the pedal starts grinding, glad you give a heads up on that.

My mate did say that after the ABS cycle the fluid was dirtier than normal but not black (I was inside doing pumpy pumpy so didn't see it - on the pedal that is :laugh:). Dunno if the age and mileage has anything to do with it not being fully black, its 38k just over 3yrs, and had one fluid change about 13 months ago by the previous owner, not sure if that was done this way or not.

Oh and clutch was bled too my mate said in 10yrs he has never bled a clutch at the same time as brakes - maybe I should look for a new mechanic mate?? :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on October 19, 2010, 09:18:20 am
Old fashioned thank you  :happy2:

You're welcome.  Let us know if you experience the same black flush!

Well all done,  :driver: You are right its a bit if a oh sh*t moment when the pedal starts grinding, glad you give a heads up on that.
:happy2:


My mate did say that after the ABS cycle the fluid was dirtier than normal but not black (I was inside doing pumpy pumpy so didn't see it - on the pedal that is :laugh:). Dunno if the age and mileage has anything to do with it not being fully black, its 38k just over 3yrs, and had one fluid change about 13 months ago by the previous owner, not sure if that was done this way or not.
Age, rather than mileage has the greatest effect on causing brake fluid to deteriorate.  Maybe the reason your fluid wasn't black is down to its spritely age  :P - or maybe heaven forbid - the stealer actually did the job correctly last time!  :surprised:


Oh and clutch was bled too my mate said in 10yrs he has never bled a clutch at the same time as brakes - maybe I should look for a new mechanic mate?? :evilgrin:
Clutch bleeding isn't actually an 'official' scheduled item.  And historically, hydraulic clutches used to have their own separate fluid resevoir - so there was no scope for cross-contamination of fluid between the clutch and brakes.  But modern cars hydraulic clutches now 'piggy-back' their resevoir onto the brake master cylinder.  So if you are dilligent enough to regularly change your brake fluid - but omit your clutch fluid, you risk 'diluting' the efforts of your work (quite literally)!
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: oddhod on November 20, 2010, 06:06:50 am
Just came across this post whilst browsing and just had to sign up to say that this is complete nonsense.
Conventional brake bleeding is all that is required and is perfectly sufficient. You send brake fluid into the resevoir and if you open the nsr bleed nipple for example it will travel though the master cylinder, through the pipes, through the abs unit, through some more pipes and out of the caliper. Job done.
There is a basic setting facility to activate abs pump whilst bleeding but this is only if part of the system has been emptied. ie. if a caliper was replaced.
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: tmagnet on November 28, 2010, 08:06:09 pm
Did you notice any or much difference by replacing the old fluid in the ABS unit?
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Rob GTI on November 30, 2010, 11:45:01 pm
I wouldn't have noticed any difference as I upgraded the calipers, discs and pads at the same time - sorry.
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: MPS on January 02, 2012, 11:29:50 pm
I'm trying to ruffle a few feathers and make everyone aware of this problem of dealers cutting corners with brake fluid servicing on VW's UK facebook page. Mwuhahahah!  :evilgrin: Bet my name'll be black-listed at my local dealer now, I can kiss my warranty claim for rusty wheelarches goodbye!  :grin:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: mkviken on January 27, 2012, 10:40:50 am
if my car is new (2000 miles) and i fit braided lines and re-bleed with VW fluid do i still need to run ABS on VCDS or will i be ok? obviously the fluid will be clean but will there be air left in without the VCDS cycle?

also will i need to bleed the clutch if i change the lines?


thanks
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on February 07, 2012, 01:56:33 pm
Just came across this post whilst browsing and just had to sign up to say that this is complete nonsense.
Conventional brake bleeding is all that is required and is perfectly sufficient. You send brake fluid into the resevoir and if you open the nsr bleed nipple for example it will travel though the master cylinder, through the pipes, through the abs unit, through some more pipes and out of the caliper. Job done.
There is a basic setting facility to activate abs pump whilst bleeding but this is only if part of the system has been emptied. ie. if a caliper was replaced.

You, sir, are talking utter bollox!  You clearly havn't got a fcuking clue what you are saying, have you. :fighting:

Since when have Mk5 Golfs had just 'ABS' rather than the full-blown 'ESP'?  Do you drool out of your back passage, and use andrex on your mouth?  :indifferent:

Go fcuk off back under the little rock where trolls hide, there's a good chap!  :booty:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on February 07, 2012, 01:58:08 pm
Did you notice any or much difference by replacing the old fluid in the ABS unit?

Nope.  But I'll sleep better at night, knowing I've hopefully saved my ESP unit from an early grave.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on February 07, 2012, 02:00:35 pm
I'm trying to ruffle a few feathers and make everyone aware of this problem of dealers cutting corners with brake fluid servicing on VW's UK facebook page. Mwuhahahah!  :evilgrin: Bet my name'll be black-listed at my local dealer now, I can kiss my warranty claim for rusty wheelarches goodbye!  :grin:

What about all the other gazillion corners they cut, like using the wrong engine oil, not changing DSG fluid properly, fitting cheap budget tyres on 2nd hand cars, employing 'technicians' with NO qualifications, etc, etc
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on February 07, 2012, 02:03:03 pm
if my car is new (2000 miles) and i fit braided lines and re-bleed with VW fluid do i still need to run ABS on VCDS or will i be ok? obviously the fluid will be clean but will there be air left in without the VCDS cycle?

also will i need to bleed the clutch if i change the lines?
If your car is genuinely 'new' - ie, not a car which was built in 2007, but parked up on some disused airfield or docks, then registered as 'new' in 2011 - then no.  :wink:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: mkviken on February 07, 2012, 05:36:49 pm
the tyres are week 27 2011 and was delivered in septemeber so i know it was built between july or august
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on February 07, 2012, 11:13:25 pm
the tyres are week 27 2011 and was delivered in septemeber so i know it was built between july or august
The tyres could have been changed.  The VIN is a far more reliable method of determining the cars age - the 10th digit is the model year.  :wink:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: monte on February 07, 2012, 11:25:04 pm
Hi Sean, Ive been meaning to ask you for a while now….I have noticed probably 2 times now that when I brake really sharp (i.e. foot to the floor) I have felt a grinding in the pedal. Could this be related to brake fluid issues?

Thanks,

Carlo. :smiley:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on February 07, 2012, 11:51:56 pm
Hi Sean, Ive been meaning to ask you for a while now….I have noticed probably 2 times now that when I brake really sharp (i.e. foot to the floor) I have felt a grinding in the pedal. Could this be related to brake fluid issues?

Thanks,

Carlo. :smiley:

Nothing to do with fluid - that is just your ABS kicking in.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: monte on February 07, 2012, 11:55:13 pm
Hi Sean, Ive been meaning to ask you for a while now….I have noticed probably 2 times now that when I brake really sharp (i.e. foot to the floor) I have felt a grinding in the pedal. Could this be related to brake fluid issues?

Thanks,

Carlo. :smiley:

Nothing to do with fluid - that is just your ABS kicking in.  :happy2:

Thanks Bud  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: camfollower on March 18, 2013, 09:26:17 pm
Wow, I did this, this evening... lots of black stuff... holding the pedal back is fun, cheers :happy2:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: camfollower on March 19, 2013, 07:05:35 pm
Worth noting, that the ABS purge takes a huge chunk out of the battery power; today I had an Airbag warning malfunction, followed by no electrics... oh sh!t was my first reaction, then tried to start the car, nothing...... Battery, doh.  Quick charge and it was fine; took the long way home to get some juice into it.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: jedi-knight83 on October 24, 2015, 02:10:10 pm
Hello. Found this from the search function. Some good advice.

Although I'm relatively handy with basic mechanical tasks (I've changed discs and pads and managed to fit coil overs all on my own before), I've NEVER bled brakes before. Should I stop here and get a garage to do this for me?

I've got VCDS, A caliper winder tool, new brake discs and pads for the rear, new braided lines all round and new discs, pads, calipers to fit to the front. I'll get brake fluid from TPS (how much is needed)

Can I have a bit more detail on the process of bleeding once you've plugged in VCDS?

Do you need to just put it into 1 mode and then bleed it once.. or does it need bleeding in all of the 4 modes that were previously mentioned?

Thanks in advance.

Nathan
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Johnsy on June 14, 2016, 11:58:44 pm
Thread Revival!

Anybody in or around Newcastle upon Tyne who can do the VCDS abs trickery for me ?

Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Flyingscotsman on September 12, 2016, 08:27:35 am
Just thought I'd draw attention to this helpful thread on the importance of using VCDS to cycle the ABS during brake bleeding, and of flushing with plenty of fluid.

Did my brakes at the weekend and after using VCDS got about 100ml of pretty black fluid out of the rear calipers. This is despite the fact that I paid a VW dealer for a "brake fluid service" only last year!

I used about 1.5 litres of fluid to flush all four calipers (~350ml from each).   
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on December 22, 2016, 08:53:57 pm
Just thought I'd draw attention to this helpful thread on the importance of using VCDS to cycle the ABS during brake bleeding, and of flushing with plenty of fluid.
It is indeed a very helpful and important thread.  It really deserves to be a <cough>STICKY<cough>  :evilgrin:

Did my brakes at the weekend and after using VCDS got about 100ml of pretty black fluid out of the rear calipers. This is despite the fact that I paid a VW dealer for a "brake fluid service" only last year!
If it was only 100ml of fluid from your rear calipers - and bearing in mind the extra length of pipework to the rears, I would strongly doubt that came from the ABS/ESP unit.  More likely to be the seals in your rear calipers wearing which was what tainted the fluid.

And 90% of VW stealers are utter scum regarding brake fluid changes.  My ex-SWMBO asked me to check over her recently purchased genuine DasAuto approved Mk6 TDI - and the brake fluid is BLACK in the master cylinder reservoir.  Car has had full main dealer service history, AND the DasAuto used car sales check (which is supposed to check brake fluid condition) - and the amount of boxes they ticked, but blatantly failed to do is truely shocking.  The bluetooth head unit and DIS still had the previous owners full phone book and handset still stored.  :fighting:

I used about 1.5 litres of fluid to flush all four calipers (~350ml from each).
1.5 litres is a bit on the sparse side - especially if it has never been bled properly previously.
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: IOMAL on March 16, 2017, 08:54:52 pm
Forgive my ignorance,is this what your on about when you say  VCDS .....or is it another piece of kit that's lots more dosh (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170316/41f275c21ea3bbe2dc4b3bf8a7cb4405.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Shoduchi on March 19, 2017, 03:46:15 pm
Forgive my ignorance,is this what your on about when you say  VCDS .....or is it another piece of kit that's lots more dosh

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Second option man.

https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_VCHU_9.html#product_information (https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_VCHU_9.html#product_information)
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Newbieintown on March 19, 2017, 06:19:54 pm
So sorry to be stupid, how much would brake fluid should I need to do all 4 corners plus clutch? Then am guessing all 4 corners again when flushing the abs? Would I need to redo the clutch for the 2nd time? Thanks.
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: M4T VW on March 20, 2017, 08:52:45 am
Gave this a go on mine yesterday and failed. It's a completely empty system with new brakes front and rear. I put the pressure bleeeder on (10psi) and bled them manually and finished with the clutch. Then plugged in the laptop and used "basic settings" and followed the guide for a couple of times. Didn't really help and just seems to be  pouring brake fluid down the drain. (hypothetically)

Can anyone confirm if you are using the "basic settings" function or just using the "output tests" to kick the abs pump in while holding the brake?
Both my brake and clutch pedal go to the floor still.
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: GTICZ on April 11, 2017, 11:50:18 pm
i think, you will need to a second man to work with basic setting... with output tests it can be done by your self, but its ust my guess
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: M4T VW on April 24, 2017, 01:18:21 pm
That's what i did. I did have a 2nd man with me but the basic settings goes on forever and you end up using loads of fluid. I bet the dealers dont use that method!
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on June 03, 2018, 09:13:57 pm
So sorry to be stupid, how much would brake fluid should I need to do all 4 corners plus clutch? Then am guessing all 4 corners again when flushing the abs? Would I need to redo the clutch for the 2nd time? Thanks.
It can honestly depend on if it has ever previously been done properly.  I would personally make sure I had at least three litres of brake fluid.

And the clutch only needs doing once - leave it until the very last - and ONLY use a pressure bleeder.
Title: Re: Brake bleeding, brake fluid changes - IMPORTANT
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on June 03, 2018, 09:23:09 pm
Gave this a go on mine yesterday and failed. It's a completely empty system with new brakes front and rear. I put the pressure bleeeder on (10psi) and bled them manually and finished with the clutch. Then plugged in the laptop and used "basic settings" and followed the guide for a couple of times. Didn't really help and just seems to be  pouring brake fluid down the drain. (hypothetically)
You need to make sure ALL bleed nipples are closed when cycling the ABS/ESP unit.

The VAS5051 type 'bleed' method is only meant to be used with higher pressure, and much greater capacity and flow rate pressure bleeders.  A 'diy' type pressure bleeder with 10psi will never keep up with the very aggressive VAS bleed method.  I have known master cylinder reservoir seals to collapse when using crap pressure bleeders!


Can anyone confirm if you are using the "basic settings" function or just using the "output tests" to kick the abs pump in while holding the brake?
Not done it for a while, but I think it was just the output test.

Both my brake and clutch pedal go to the floor still.
Whoops.  Epic fail.  :confused: