MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: geordie56 on May 25, 2011, 08:13:59 pm

Title: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: geordie56 on May 25, 2011, 08:13:59 pm
Well, got my car back today and just thought I'd share my thoughts. After driving cars in the past with lsd's I know how good they are, however I haven't had one on my last four cars which have all been powerful front wheel drives apart from my r32. I must say I am very impressed, I have tried and I mean tried with all the other mods which help aswell to get the car to just slip a little bit , but I just can't make it budge. It doesn't have any issues pulling out of a bend anymore either with the power it needs to ut down through the front wheels. All I will say anyone thinking about it or not got it should really put it high on their mods list.

 
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: Bernhard30 on May 25, 2011, 08:32:34 pm
What diff did you plump for and where did you buy from? Who installed?

Glad you're please with the result.


Can you tell I'm thinking about one....
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: RedRobin on May 25, 2011, 08:41:12 pm
.
A 'LSD' diff transforms a FWD car doesn't it! It's one of those mods which is difficult to persuade people as worthwhile. I think it actually helps extend tyre life too.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: Rob GTI on May 25, 2011, 08:49:50 pm
I though the Rocco R had an electronic LSD, obviously it doesn't do much if it does?
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: geordie56 on May 25, 2011, 08:50:31 pm
I am over the moon with it red! It just grips and grips in the corners and as for pulling away from a standing start it is a he'll of a lot better! I got it done by matt at vw racing and a professional very efficient service aswell. As you say red it is hard to persuade people how good and effective a mod it really is, but I've went for it as I'm keeping the car a while and it's a very effective and worthwhile mod in my opinion. If you're doing a lot of modding you have to look at this.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: Janner_Sy on May 25, 2011, 08:50:48 pm
XDS is sh!te
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: geordie56 on May 25, 2011, 08:52:27 pm
It's a tsi GT with lots of mods not an R. And id take a mechanical diff over electronic any day to be honest.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: Bernhard30 on May 25, 2011, 09:17:31 pm
Did you go for the Quaife diff then, or do VWR do others makes?

Also is your car a manual or dsg? Just curious as to how the diff would do with a manual.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: geordie56 on May 25, 2011, 09:19:43 pm
I went with quaiffe yes, and I am sure the diff is justnas good in the manual to be honest.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: MAT ED30 on May 25, 2011, 09:25:34 pm
I have said it a few times before LSD is the best mod ever it should be the first mod on a fwd car
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: vRSAlex on May 27, 2011, 11:12:17 am
They don't really have an electronic diff as standard. It's the abs that will apply the brakes to the wheel that is getting slip.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: QD MBE on May 27, 2011, 11:16:56 am
Having owned both a car with XDS (Roc R) and a car with a Quaife LSD (ED 30 - fitted at Racing Line/VWR with problems but we got there in the end)

I can say the LSD is slightly better, only slightly.  The XDS is actaully pretty good.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: RedRobin on May 27, 2011, 11:21:45 am
.
I don't know exactly why but the feel of a mechanical diff is so much more direct than the 'electronic' version in current VW's. Personally I much prefer the mechanical. I would describe the feel of the electronic diff (XDS?) as squidgy! It doesn't feel as powerful either.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: PDT on May 27, 2011, 11:27:53 am
A mechanical diff will give more power to the wheel with grip. An electronic diff will just apply the brake to the spinning wheel, hence most E-diffs are a bit pants.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: StuF on May 27, 2011, 11:31:04 am
What are the pro's and cons of fitting an LSD?
Not done much research into them if im honest, and whats the cost involved?

Do they improve the rate at which power can be applied to the wheels before grip is lost?
I.E what was fitted to the Mk1 Focus RS which made it a little "grabby" on hard accleration.



Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: RedRobin on May 27, 2011, 11:40:50 am

What are the pro's and cons of fitting an LSD?
Not done much research into them if im honest, and whats the cost involved?

Do they improve the rate at which power can be applied to the wheels before grip is lost?
I.E what was fitted to the Mk1 Focus RS which made it a little "grabby" on hard accleration.


....If DSG, you most definitely want to use a professional workshop that has experience of fitting them.

A diff won't completely cure wheelspin etc if you are too heavy on the right foot but it sure jumps in and regains grip very quickly (assuming your tyres are in good condition). You can get on the power much earlier in exiting a corner. Of course, if you drive beyond a car's limits you are asking for trouble with or without a diff. It feels extremely reassuring.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: QD MBE on May 27, 2011, 11:47:53 am
A mechanical diff will give more power to the wheel with grip. An electronic diff will just apply the brake to the spinning wheel, hence most E-diffs are a bit pants.

My experinece was different than yours.  The E diff was pretty good as found in the Roc R, very suitbale for Road use.  Quaife in the Ed was good too, but I wouldn't bother again, unless tracking the car.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: RedRobin on May 27, 2011, 12:00:45 pm

A mechanical diff will give more power to the wheel with grip. An electronic diff will just apply the brake to the spinning wheel, hence most E-diffs are a bit pants.


My experinece was different than yours.  The E diff was pretty good as found in the Roc R, very suitbale for Road use.  Quaife in the Ed was good too, but I wouldn't bother again, unless tracking the car.


....Funny you should mention trackdays - I was just about to post that it used to be said that "Don't bother to get a diff unless you're tracking, because you won't use it and it'll be a waste of money". However, you've only to enjoy driving spiritedly on B-roads and roundabouts to action the benefits of a diff. In real world terms it can make sure you retain grip when overtaking on exiting a dual carriageway roundabout without crossing into the lefthand lane. By the same token you can often lose an annoying tailgater through a roundabout but then change lane and let him pass if he's a lot faster. Braking late into a tight B-road twistie and accelerating out without losing grip but feeling it happen is tremendous fun. I personally prefer it to high speed open road driving which can get you into more trouble legally anyway.

But I think you are right in that a diff won't necessarily suit everyone's style of road driving  :happy2:

I think the fact that VW have introduced an E-diff system as standard must say something about the need for a diff on the road.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: Richn83 on May 27, 2011, 12:04:18 pm
All the MK5 GTI's have something similar to the XDS with the Electronic Diff Lock XDS is just a slightly more sophisticated software deployment and branded all its capable of doing breaking one wheel independently which forces the normal open diff to transfer more power from the brake wheeled to the other.  

I have no experience with a LSD but I believe it will provide a more progressive movement of power from one wheel to the other and without cooking your brakes at the same time!
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: rich83 on May 27, 2011, 12:10:52 pm
Mk5 GTI doesnt have an E-diff.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: StuF on May 27, 2011, 12:12:49 pm
How much does a LSD cost to buy and install (approx) as im sure there are some fluctuations between manufactures?
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: RagingKileak on May 27, 2011, 12:32:28 pm
I always lol@ LSD threads because they usually involve a very definite split which goes like this...

Hello, I have an LSD and I'd like to say that it's wonderful chaps. It really helps me apply power to the road and does a variety of other lovely things, such as....

And the other:

Now den geezas. Onli a clwn wud consida 1 o dem trick difs. I as got 689 BHPs an me car is propa fast. U dont even need it man. get a big turbo from old calibra insted on it and save some doh for beer and dem birds and dat.

My opinion, I bought Hurdy's car because it had a Quaiffe diff fitted and others for similar money didn't. Simple as that.

Any car likely to be on this forum (GTI's or ED30's etc) are likely to have enough power to show a signifcant difference by fitting an LSD. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a damn fool. They MAY be expensive (and are) and that is what counts against them.

I'll try give some 'bang per buck' context. In my old 335d I had a remap which brought it up to 540 lbs/ft torque (yeah, over 700 nm etc) and an Autobox which had no idea what to do with it.... I ran it happily, loving my remap and superfast diesel. Then I tried one with an LSD fitted and it blew me away.... It was SO, SO, SOOOOO much quicker than mine because it was actually using most of that torque, whereas mine simply wasn't able to put it down. If it hadn't been for BMW making such a clever Auto I would probably have been dead to be honest.

Sadly, the LSD for the Auto 335d is only supplied by Birds and costs over £2000. For a Golf you're looking at something like £1000 - £1200 fitted I guess. If you have Stage 2+ etc it's well worth it, makes a world of difference. If Clarkson drove my car now he couldn't POSSIBLY say that FWD cars can't handle over 300 bhp. If he did, I would tell him he was a damn fool too.

Matt
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: stealthwolf on May 27, 2011, 02:12:39 pm
To those of you with an LSD fitted, what do you do to the traction control? Leave it on or turn it off (or press and hold which I'm led to believe deactivates more stuff)?
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: RedRobin on May 27, 2011, 02:32:05 pm

To those of you with an LSD fitted, what do you do to the traction control? Leave it on or turn it off (or press and hold which I'm led to believe deactivates more stuff)?


....On the road I always drive with ESP on. On track, except the narrow with expensive armco Nordschleife section (TF circuit) of the whole Nurburgring, I drive with ESP off as there's plenty of run off area on the modern F1 section of Nurburgring.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: Richn83 on May 27, 2011, 03:36:11 pm
Mk5 GTI doesnt have an E-diff.

Im fairly certain they do its termed EDL and is part of the ESP system.

 Bosch ESP 5.7 Electronic Stability Programme, with Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS), Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD), Anti-Slip Regulation (ASR) traction control system, Electronic Differential Lock (EDL), Engine Braking Control (EBC), with emergency Brake Assist (BA).
Note: The electronic differential lock (EDL) employed by Volkswagen is not, as the name suggests, a differential lock at all. Sensors monitor roadwheel speeds across an individual driven axle, and if one wheel is rotating substantially faster than the other (i.e. slipping) the EDL system momentarily brakes it. This effectively transfers power to the other wheel.

Its much simpler than XDS but uses the same principal, I also think it only applies up to a certain road speed.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: rich83 on May 27, 2011, 03:54:12 pm
Ohh ok. To be honest ESP is crap if your giving it beans. I have lost count the number of times my car has just 'cut out' mid corner or whilst booting it from 1st to 2nd gear. If Im giving my car some bootage in the dry the ESP goes off because it just cuts in too early.

If I had a bank full of money would i get a LSD? Probably yes.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: RagingKileak on May 27, 2011, 03:54:36 pm
To those of you with an LSD fitted, what do you do to the traction control? Leave it on or turn it off (or press and hold which I'm led to believe deactivates more stuff)?

I do both mate (with similar thinking to RedRobin) because an LSD WON'T save your life if you drive like a punk!!

If I am 'on it' then I will turn off ESP - I just give it one stab. If a long press turns off more, I will try that too (that's how BMW's work) but under normal circumstances, I rarely see the light flicker - which I believe is largely down to getting 10x more traction than a car without an LSD.

Matt
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: berg on May 27, 2011, 05:26:49 pm
speak to alex at bdm for a peloquin as you get the fixing bolts with it whereas with quaife and wavetrac you dont. 

Or if you are up north like me go to Statllers in Sheffield.

i am going for a wavetrac on 15th June at Statllers (as they are 80 miles from me and BDM are 200) with a sachs clutch so will do a full write up like RR's once has been on a few weeks.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: RagingKileak on May 27, 2011, 05:29:26 pm
speak to alex at bdm for a peloquin as you get the fixing bolts with it whereas with quaife and wavetrac you dont. 

Or if you are up north like me go to Statllers in Sheffield.

i am going for a wavetrac on 15th June at Statllers (as they are 80 miles from me and BDM are 200) with a sachs clutch so will do a full write up like RR's once has been on a few weeks.

I go to Statllers for everything too.

It will be interesting to read the report on your experience with the Wavetrac vs my own Quaiffe. I like the 'fit and forget' aspect of Quaiffe parts, but I was a big advocate of the Wavetrac Diff on some BMW's, mainly because I don't believe how sewn up Quaiffe/Birds have the BMW LSD market. I like free and open competition lol!!

Also, any indication of cost for replacement plates etc?

Matt
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: Carrera2RS on May 27, 2011, 05:47:51 pm
Interested in what the fitted cost is  :driver:
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on May 27, 2011, 07:05:22 pm

Would certainly do this when funds allow, probably at next clutch change.  In hind sight it should have been done with the first round of mods.
After borrowing VWRs Loan/Demo golf with the Quaiffe I was very impressed.  :smiley:
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: RedRobin on May 27, 2011, 07:41:53 pm

After borrowing VWRs Loan/Demo golf with the Quaiffe I was very impressed.  :smiley:


....Ah, The Red Temptress! Yes, she convinced me too.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: Cupra R on May 27, 2011, 07:54:44 pm
I'm interested too as to how much Stattlers are going to charge you Berg, I already have a Sachs Clutch in, should done the Diff at the same time.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on May 27, 2011, 07:59:44 pm

After borrowing VWRs Loan/Demo golf with the Quaiffe I was very impressed.  :smiley:


....Ah, The Red Temptress! Yes, she convinced me too.

For sale isnt she?  Lots of fun on the roundabouts of Milk & Beans with the Quaiffe  :party: :ashamed:
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: berg on May 28, 2011, 02:20:26 pm
the fitted cost of sachs and quaife was £1900.00 ish and the sachs with wavetrac is £2175.00, Steve Jr reckons the wavetrac is a better diff, more progressive.

he advised me friction plates did not need to be serviced? but will double check...
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: RagingKileak on May 28, 2011, 08:23:28 pm
Hi mate.

Wavetrac diff is better, but will need servicing eventually. Not likely on a normal road car to be honest.

Having said all that, Quaiffe is a bigger brand with lifetime guarantee. I'd never pay more for a WT in a million years. Your choice though.

Matt
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: Kesh on August 01, 2018, 12:13:12 am
Whats the difference between a quife and a wave track lsd? :evilgrin:
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: pudding on August 02, 2018, 01:04:42 pm
Quaife is open when one wheel loses all grip. Wavetrac has a bit of locking.
Title: Re: LSD now fitted and wow!
Post by: 9MAK on September 24, 2023, 10:19:10 am
who fitted it for you?