All Things Mk5 > Performance Modifications
Clutch slipping... Helix still the one to get?
MS1:
--- Quote from: Pudding on February 23, 2016, 12:39:40 pm ---
--- Quote from: AJP on February 20, 2016, 06:05:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: BradCobbs on February 20, 2016, 01:24:29 pm ---I've had the same problem in the last couple weeks which is gradually getting worse.
With 130,000 miles on the clock I think it has done well.
Will an OE clutch simply not take the extra torque that stage 1 provides? I've done roughly 8,000 miles since the remap.
Obviously an uprated clutch is the way to go, but they are significantly more expensive.
--- End quote ---
From what I gather, an oem clutch should handle stage 1 levels of torque, but simply won't last anywhere near as long as it should.
I suppose it depends how long you plan to keep the car, and if further power mods are a possibility down the line. For me, I'll be keeping the GTI for a good 5+ more years and I am planning more power, so it wouldn't make sense to go for another oem clutch in my situation.
Also if you look at the job as a whole, done right with a new flywheel, plus labour, it's a dear job whichever way you look at it. The clutch itself is just one part of the job so you're not going to be saving a huge amount relatively.
I like the idea of having a clutch that you can put 400lb/ft through. Not sure the con rods will be too happy but that's just another a bridge to be crossed when it arises..
--- End quote ---
A brand new OEM clutch can cope with 300lbft, just. One that's beyond half worn, doesn't like it and has been demonstrated enough times now that it's almost a fact!
Also, bear in mind VW only rate their FWD turbo gearboxes to a maximum of 280lbft, so over-boosting our cars puts us all on borrowed time anyway....but I digress....
.....Just to add some context to this because forums tend to be black or white with these things..... I am talking about peak boost / torque when the car is over-geared (so 6th on the motorway), peak boost up a hill in 4th and sometimes 3rd. Most of the time on a flat or slight down hill and with the wind behind you, the clutch can cope with it. Throw a cold winter's day into the mix and the variables all change again!
Just prior to getting my clutch done and with Revo, it was spinning up 3rd like clockwork, in the dry. After it was custom mapped, it was barely wheel spinning at all and just didn't feel as responsive when in boost. Why? Because the damn clutch was slipping!!! Threw the helix in and it's 'f'ck me', what an animal!!!
--- End quote ---
I'd like to try a Helix clutch, but I must say, I've just had the OE LUK clutch replaced on my Mk5 after 97,500 miles, 70,000 of that has been with nigh on 300bhp/300lbft, it never slipped, I just had a bit of flywheel judder. Upon removal it was clear the clutch was still in a fair condition, maybe 75% worn, suggesting the OE LUK may be good for up to 100,000 miles, even on a near maxed out Ko3. I'm going to R Tech on Wednesday and there'll be another 75lbft torque, so I'll let you know how it handles it.
AJP:
--- Quote from: MS1 on March 20, 2016, 04:28:18 pm ---
--- Quote from: Pudding on February 23, 2016, 12:39:40 pm ---
--- Quote from: AJP on February 20, 2016, 06:05:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: BradCobbs on February 20, 2016, 01:24:29 pm ---I've had the same problem in the last couple weeks which is gradually getting worse.
With 130,000 miles on the clock I think it has done well.
Will an OE clutch simply not take the extra torque that stage 1 provides? I've done roughly 8,000 miles since the remap.
Obviously an uprated clutch is the way to go, but they are significantly more expensive.
--- End quote ---
From what I gather, an oem clutch should handle stage 1 levels of torque, but simply won't last anywhere near as long as it should.
I suppose it depends how long you plan to keep the car, and if further power mods are a possibility down the line. For me, I'll be keeping the GTI for a good 5+ more years and I am planning more power, so it wouldn't make sense to go for another oem clutch in my situation.
Also if you look at the job as a whole, done right with a new flywheel, plus labour, it's a dear job whichever way you look at it. The clutch itself is just one part of the job so you're not going to be saving a huge amount relatively.
I like the idea of having a clutch that you can put 400lb/ft through. Not sure the con rods will be too happy but that's just another a bridge to be crossed when it arises..
--- End quote ---
A brand new OEM clutch can cope with 300lbft, just. One that's beyond half worn, doesn't like it and has been demonstrated enough times now that it's almost a fact!
Also, bear in mind VW only rate their FWD turbo gearboxes to a maximum of 280lbft, so over-boosting our cars puts us all on borrowed time anyway....but I digress....
.....Just to add some context to this because forums tend to be black or white with these things..... I am talking about peak boost / torque when the car is over-geared (so 6th on the motorway), peak boost up a hill in 4th and sometimes 3rd. Most of the time on a flat or slight down hill and with the wind behind you, the clutch can cope with it. Throw a cold winter's day into the mix and the variables all change again!
Just prior to getting my clutch done and with Revo, it was spinning up 3rd like clockwork, in the dry. After it was custom mapped, it was barely wheel spinning at all and just didn't feel as responsive when in boost. Why? Because the damn clutch was slipping!!! Threw the helix in and it's 'f'ck me', what an animal!!!
--- End quote ---
I'd like to try a Helix clutch, but I must say, I've just had the OE LUK clutch replaced on my Mk5 after 97,500 miles, 70,000 of that has been with nigh on 300bhp/300lbft, it never slipped, I just had a bit of flywheel judder. Upon removal it was clear the clutch was still in a fair condition, maybe 75% worn, suggesting the OE LUK may be good for up to 100,000 miles, even on a near maxed out Ko3. I'm going to R Tech on Wednesday and there'll be another 75lbft torque, so I'll let you know how it handles it.
--- End quote ---
Good luck with that! I think the standard clutch is good for maybe 310-320lb/ft. 375lb/ft may be pushing it, but fingers crossed it holds up for you.
MS1:
Fingers crossed indeed mate. The Stage 2+ hardware R-Tech suggest for 275-290bhp and 350-360lbft, doesn't include an uprated clutch, that only comes in at Stage 3.
AJP:
--- Quote from: MS1 on March 20, 2016, 05:29:53 pm ---Fingers crossed indeed mate. The Stage 2+ hardware R-Tech suggest for 275-290bhp and 350-360lbft, doesn't include an uprated clutch, that only comes in at Stage 3.
--- End quote ---
Well you're on a brand new clutch, and Niki will make sure the torque doesn't come in one big dollop. You might be ok.
Not sure if you've read the whole thread, but mine started slipping once I'd had a full Powervalve fitted on top of Stage 1 R-Tech. It's entirely likely the clutch was on its last legs anyway and the extra torque from the big downpipe just broke its back!
I do have plans for Stage 3 - a turbo upgrade as well as all the 2+ bits - so it just seemed like logic for me to go for the Helix.
MS1:
Yes bud, I read the whole thread. I saw that and guess you're right, it must have been on its last legs. You did the right thing uprating with your planned mods.
We'll see come Wednesday I guess. I'm looking for a linear map, with the bulk of the torque coming in at 3,200-3,500rpm, where my car is currently lacking a little, I can't be dealing with a huge torque spike. I don't know if I just got lucky or whether or not my previous mapper specifically created a clutch friendly map, for sure there's no big torque spike, but I've been stage 2 for 70,000 miles, including a big downpipe and 200 cell sports cat and the clutch has always been very well behaved.
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