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Author Topic: VWR Intake disappointing  (Read 48466 times)

Offline Shoduchi

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #60 on: August 09, 2017, 12:29:18 pm »
:grin:

The trims were very small with the VWR intake on mine, but that's only half the story.  The problem with CAIs is they slow down the air speed.   The sensor might still see the correct air mass, within a 5% tolerance, but that change in flow dynamics makes it feel lethargic off boost.
The initial hoorah this is great feeling I got from the VWR must have been placebo, because the car feels a lot better to drive with the OEM airbox  :happy2:

I think you can only feel the difference on WOT. Other situations you don't get the benefit and I guess you notice more the lethargic response of the engine.

Offline Shoduchi

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #61 on: August 09, 2017, 12:31:25 pm »
I gotta say that comprehensive reply frazzled my head a little..... Couple of points:

@AJP No logging needed, just a check of block 032

How relevant is pressure drop on an airbox that is under vacuum and sees no positive pressure? Genuine question.

A flow straightener has very little effect.... tried one, tried multiple mesh designs as close to the OE design as I could find and it made suprisingly little difference to the MAF readings, trims and feel.

Out of curiousity, where does the MAF sit on the VWR intake, centre or nearer the edge of the tube?

As for gains from an intake, it is impossible to give a static number or % in terms of what can be gained as it depends entirely on the car and hardware setup.... A 500rpm difference in spool could be achieved on a larger turbo setup, but on a punchy little K03 that is hitting peak boost by around 2500 rpm - not a chance.

Gains are there in terms of peak numbers, especially when you are on the limit of what the compressor can flow. There are many back to back dyno charts out there proving the gains from an intake alone on a previously tuned car... But as with everything in life, there are negatives to consider but these are almost always overlooked as the priority for most is to chase peak numbers and full throttle performance...

Noise is another drawback for some, although personally I am 29 going on 19 and love all manner of turbo noises.... What is acceptable to me would not be for a lot... Its all about finding the compromise that best suits you.... Whether you want to chase numbers or enjoy the quiet, refined OE drive

My K04 is peaking its boost at 2500 rpm. It's only peaking at 1.4 bar with the ECU requesting 1.24 bar, where it drops after not long.

As I said previously, the noticeable gains happen between the 6.000 rpm to the limiter (mine as increased to 7.000 rpm).

Offline pudding

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #62 on: August 09, 2017, 01:52:52 pm »
Did you get a retune after fitting your intake?

I can see there'd be a gain at the top end as a piece of 3" pipe is easier to breathe through than a baffled airbox, but 95% of the time, people live in the idle to 5500rpm range.


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Offline Shoduchi

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2017, 02:02:48 pm »
Did you get a retune after fitting your intake?

I can see there'd be a gain at the top end as a piece of 3" pipe is easier to breathe through than a baffled airbox, but 95% of the time, people live in the idle to 5500rpm range.

I didn't get a retune yet. The difference in power above 6.000 rpm is just from the VWR intake. If I add an octane booster additive the difference is bigger with the CAI than with the OEM airbox.

I'm still waiting to get one to take full advantage of higher octane fuel. I plan of filling up with race fuel on future track days.

I agree that on daily driving you don't notice anything with the CAI. I didn't feel any increased lethargy from the engine response but I rarely drive bellow 2.000 rpm. I prefer driving at least at 2.000 rpm.

Offline pudding

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2017, 02:10:07 pm »
You are one of the lucky ones being completely happy with yours  :happy2:

Maybe I will hang onto it for when I finally fit the TTE420, but for now, OEM it is  :smiley:


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Offline Shoduchi

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2017, 02:19:11 pm »
You are one of the lucky ones being completely happy with yours  :happy2:

Maybe I will hang onto it for when I finally fit the TTE420, but for now, OEM it is  :smiley:

I agree. I think the OEM airbox is good enough for up to 330 BHP. If you want more without pushing a lot of boost from the turbo, you'll need a good CAI. :smiley:

Offline Shoduchi

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2017, 12:54:15 pm »
My K04 VWR intake sold by Awesome GTI also needed the DV hose connector to be fitted.

Offline pudding

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2017, 04:25:07 pm »
My K04 VWR intake sold by Awesome GTI also needed the DV hose connector to be fitted.

I thought they were all like that?

I just cut the hole in with a scalpel. The punch tool is fine on a straight pipe, but a complete pita on a 90 degree pipe. More dumb arse VWR crap right there  :stupid:


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Offline Shoduchi

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #68 on: August 21, 2017, 07:19:40 pm »
My K04 VWR intake sold by Awesome GTI also needed the DV hose connector to be fitted.

I thought they were all like that?

I just cut the hole in with a scalpel. The punch tool is fine on a straight pipe, but a complete pita on a 90 degree pipe. More dumb arse VWR crap right there  :stupid:

There was a reply from another user with a print screen of a reply from VW Racing stating that a K04 VWR intake should come with the DV connector already fitted.

Not sure why it was deleted. :confused:

Offline AJP

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #69 on: August 21, 2017, 07:35:34 pm »
My K04 VWR intake sold by Awesome GTI also needed the DV hose connector to be fitted.

I thought they were all like that?

I just cut the hole in with a scalpel. The punch tool is fine on a straight pipe, but a complete pita on a 90 degree pipe. More dumb arse VWR crap right there  :stupid:

There was a reply from another user with a print screen of a reply from VW Racing stating that a K04 VWR intake should come with the DV connector already fitted.

Not sure why it was deleted. :confused:
Cutting costs knowing there was healthy demand. £££ basically.

Offline pudding

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #70 on: August 22, 2017, 08:25:22 am »
My K04 VWR intake sold by Awesome GTI also needed the DV hose connector to be fitted.

I thought they were all like that?

I just cut the hole in with a scalpel. The punch tool is fine on a straight pipe, but a complete pita on a 90 degree pipe. More dumb arse VWR crap right there  :stupid:

There was a reply from another user with a print screen of a reply from VW Racing stating that a K04 VWR intake should come with the DV connector already fitted.

Not sure why it was deleted. :confused:

Personally I think we should all send the intakes back. They were never fit for purpose to begin with.  I think I might drive to their building and set fire to mine outside it  :grin:


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Offline pudding

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2018, 07:11:54 pm »
Home brew flex joint for my VWR intake  :happy2:   It's just a flex joint from the standard engine cover with the square section chopped off  :grin:   Costs about £15 from VW iirc.

The wine is a reward for my ingenuity  :grin: :drinking:



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Offline Shoduchi

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2018, 07:25:54 pm »
It looks great! Maybe VWR should look at it seriously and improve their intake pipe. :congrats:

Offline pudding

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2018, 08:07:40 pm »
Thanks  :smiley:   It's really flexible and being plastic, it won't collapse with heavy boost like rubber flexis do  :happy2:

I also have a couple of options for spacing the bracket up to clear the coolant line.  Rubber couplers to improve noise isolation  :smiley:



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Offline pudding

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Re: VWR Intake disappointing
« Reply #74 on: February 24, 2018, 05:24:53 pm »
OK, VWR intake installed today, with some entirely necessary tweaks and modifications to avoid being stranded from coolant loss.

Let's start with the positives. 

I actually quite like it after sorting the installation issues.   It's VERY VERY quiet, a tiny bit louder than the stock intake.  No silly squawks, hisses, or Darth Vader dirty breathing noises, which for a daily car is very appealing indeed. Refinement is king. Shouting is annoying.   

No loss of torque off boost and from 4000rpm onwards it feels like it's adding power.  Perhaps not the masses of extra power claimed, but definitely feels stronger than stock. So that's a win  :happy2:



Now let's discuss the negatives, and there are a lot of them, so to quote Gaskings....'Pull out your sacks, sit back and enjoy'  :popcornsoda:

Problem 1: With the intake pipe pushed into the Silicon elbow as far as it will go.....



.... this section of pipe is pushed hard up against the battery.  You don't want parts that move touching parts fixed to the car because it's wears things out and transmits knocks and noises into the cabin.



To rectify that, I chopped this much off the elbow with a surgical scalpel (you need something super sharp and thin to cut silicon properly).  I used the clamp as a guide to ensure a dead straight cut.



Loads better.  It's hard to see in the pic but there is at least 10mm clearance on the battery side now.  Note the flex joint.  That is absolutely key to this intake not breaking the coolant elbow off, or pulling the canister out of the air guide attached to the grille.  VWR cannot be considered 'engineers' for ignoring such an obvious and vital component.  Do they think engines remain completely still when accelerating and changing gears?  :stupid:



Problem 2: This fitting required for KO4 engines.  You have to fit it yourself, and in exactly the right place.  Inexcusable at this price point.  It was sheer luck that I got it in the right place on first attempt, but I can imagine some people being less fortunate.



Problem 3: Maybe it was just mine, but I had to completely reprofile the MAF mount.  As supplied, the MAF's weather seal wasn't even compressed when bolted down, which caused a huge air leak.  I also had to file out the hole as the MAF wouldn't even slide in.  Again, there is no excuse for crap like this on a £400 intake.



Problem 4: No provision is provided for securing the MAF harness.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if the harness flaps about from engine movement, it will eventually cause metal fatigue and snap one or more wires off at the plug  :stupid:   So a cable tie is the only quick and dirty solution here.  I will figure out something better and more OEM looking.  Why didn't VWR notice the fact VW rigidly clipped the MAF harness into the stock airbox for this very reason?



Problem 5: And now onto the most idiotic and well known issue - the coolant elbow clearance, or complete lack of.  This is embarrassingly poor.  I know it's just an rebranded ITG intake, but either way, zero f'cks given by both ITG and VWR that customers have had this elbow snap off.

Absolutely bugger all clearance, and it also rests on the radiator hose.  Yet more abrasion related issues  :doh:





And look how close it sits to the fuel pump bleed valve??  FFS, did VWR wear very dark sun glasses when fitting this to their development car??!  :stupid:



I found a way to gain clearance.

If you fit the air guide plate as you would expect, i.e. with the 'lip' on top of the grille, you can't get the canister in far enough because it fouls the grille.



But if you fit the air guide like this, you can shove the canister in a further 10-15mm.



Which gives you a lot more coolant elbow clearance.  This is more than enough room with a flex joint.  The canister will not move.  I gave the car some very hard acceleration forwards and backwards and the canister did not move from this position.  Without a flex joint, the canister will almost certainly pull out of the air guide and snap the elbow off.   Well done VWR  :congrats:



So in summary, it works great as a filter.  Refined and effective at freeing power off.  But as a retail product for DIY enthusiasts - costing over £400 let's not forget - it absolutely sucks. It is the worst fitting car product I have experienced in 23 years of modifying VWs. A product that can cause damage to people's engines should not even be allowed on the shelves.  It truly is awful and a complete embarrassment to British engineering.

Because of these issues, I would not recommend this intake to anyone.  However, if you are prepared to modify it in the same way I have, then I think it's worth considering.


2007 ED30 | 2009 TDI 140 | 2016 BMW 330D