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Author Topic: Timing chain tentioner issue ? Or good? After Replacement 2.0tfsi  (Read 588 times)

Offline alexcon3

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Hi guys was wondering if anyone could shed some light

I've just had a chain and tentioner on my tfsi BWA 2.0 engine 2006 along with new o oil rings on the vvt casing.

The car drives fine no issues I've noticed randomly puffs of smoke but not whilst boosting or driving it's more setting off and sometimes a kickdown dsg. Idle is fine very slight hickup.

Anyway new chain tentioner gone into measuring block 93 and it's reading +4 apparently it should be 0 to -2 at most. Images below

My cam phase adjustment 1 requested is 28 and actual is 27-27.50 image below

Thanks




Golf MK5 GTi 2.0 TFSI AXX

Offline Jb55

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Re: Timing chain tentioner issue ? Or good? After Replacement 2.0tfsi
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2021, 06:59:14 pm »
Was car fully up to temp when you checked everything

Offline alexcon3

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Re: Timing chain tentioner issue ? Or good? After Replacement 2.0tfsi
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2021, 07:15:28 pm »
Was car fully up to temp when you checked everything

It's even worse now 5

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Offline Morrisey

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Re: Timing chain tentioner issue ? Or good? After Replacement 2.0tfsi
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2021, 05:36:58 pm »
I believe you are right, as I made a note against my similar snapshot last year (in order to monitor), stating it can't be more than +/- 4 or 5, otherwise urgently replace tensioner & chain!

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Offline alexcon3

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Re: Timing chain tentioner issue ? Or good? After Replacement 2.0tfsi
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2021, 12:54:18 am »
Most definitely looks like he the mechanic did not set the timing spot on. Alot of people rely on the locking tool to lock the cams but the lock tool isn't 100% sometimes as when you crank the big nut off the cam it will move slightly setting the timing off. He probably didn't adjust it back sadly

It's going back to be done again for free thank god. Hopefully the chain hasn't stretched! Otherwise will make him buy me a new chain lol

Car runs ok it's drinking a bit of oil I have noticed but boosts spot on
Golf MK5 GTi 2.0 TFSI AXX

Offline Jb55

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Re: Timing chain tentioner issue ? Or good? After Replacement 2.0tfsi
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2021, 11:33:10 am »
If the timing was out the camshaft adjustment specified and actual would be way out of line and they look ok , maybe it’s a vvt problem possibly worn gear

Offline alexcon3

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Re: Timing chain tentioner issue ? Or good? After Replacement 2.0tfsi
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2021, 12:19:50 pm »



Charles the Humble mechanic Vag master technician (all over YouTube too) said it's possible it's not timed right. Still waiting to get it back to mechanic to look into it.

I've only owned tfsi done a good few chains and everytime I put a new one on it's sitting at 0 or -2 

I remember my old GTi was at 4 and both phase readings where 28° we put s new chain and was sitting at 0 nice.

Definatly something wrong with the chain I recon. I will keep you all updated once it's been stripped again
Golf MK5 GTi 2.0 TFSI AXX

Offline Jb55

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Re: Timing chain tentioner issue ? Or good? After Replacement 2.0tfsi
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2021, 12:54:21 pm »
Yes humble mechanic seems a decent bloke I watch a lot of his stuff , It’s a strange one as everything in that pic you’ve sent to him is spot on for what it should be, I’m pretty sure if the timing was out then Intake b1 (actual) would be reading a different number to the specified.
Iv seen others with similar readings after changing chains and bank 93 is reading 4-5 +/- , Iv seen a post on face book where somebody’s chain was reading -8 so they got it changed and it only went to -6 all timing was perfect as well.
Please do update the thread with your findings and I hope it’s a easy fix for you.

Offline alexcon3

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Re: Timing chain tentioner issue ? Or good? After Replacement 2.0tfsi
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2021, 04:25:42 pm »
Thanks alot mate will definatly update the thread. Could a remap change the readings at all ?

Basic history and mods of my car
Purchased 2 months ago with a noisy chain and engine so I took the sump off replaced the pick up pipe which was absolutely full of crap. Then did the chain and tensioner and full service. Everything now sounds spot on and runs ok.

Mods on my car
Oversized ram air
Catch can kit
Hybrid turbo 360bearing billet internals
Decat 3inch
Vis HPFP internals

Now the turbo isn't mapped in yet nor the exhaust so been driving it careful. I'm due to go for remapping in two weeks just waiting on intercooler and R8 coils.

Noticed sometimes puff of smoke pulling off on more than one occasion like grey/black puffs only when setting off never on boost dearly too. Maybe it's the decat not mapped in yet or the turbo.
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Offline Pudding

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The difference between 0 to +4KW isn't even a tooth out from memory, but to be sure, count how many teeth are on the cam sprockets vs the crank and that will give you degrees per tooth.  From my own calcs years ago, 4KW (or degrees) isn't even half a tooth. I think I arrived at + or - 12KW if it was a tooth out, but don't quote me.

All of this assumes the base timing was set correctly on the last cam belt change, but again, if the cambelt was a tooth off, you'd know about it.  And the cambelt is something a 5 year old could do, so no excuses for that.

You are spot on about people relying on the cam lock tool.  Big no no.  You actually need to tweak the inlet cam anti-clockwise a tiny bit (with the lock tool in place) to get the correct chain tension across the two cams, and there's even a special VW tool for that.  Again, it's not by a massive amount and the VVT will automatically compensate for any slight timing drift, but you still need to set the static timing as near as dammit upon initial assembly.

Of more concern is the smoke.  Is it blue/white oil smoke?  Does it smoke pulling away after a period of idling in traffic?  Is it worse when hot?  Could be valve guides or turbo. How many miles on it? Is the PCV system up to snuff? No aftermarket deletes or anything?

The requested vs actual timing is always 0.5 off at idle.  Don't worry about that.  More importantly is the specified and actual mirror each other rapidly under load.  If you log the VVT channels, you should find it goes from 27KW down to nothing very quickly under hard load, and varies between 0 and 27 when driving.  So long as they match, you can outrule the timing and VVT operation.

If they don't, you normally get fault codes.  "Cam timing - set point not reached - over advanced/retarded", or "cam timing slow response".

And props to the Humble one.  Top, top fella and I watch all of his videos, and also his buddy Paul 'ShopDap's vids  :happy2:
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 12:53:57 am by Pudding »


2007 ED30 | Ohlins Coilovers | Revo Map | Plus some other stuff | Is all a GTI needs :-)

Offline alexcon3

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Re: Timing chain tentioner issue ? Or good? After Replacement 2.0tfsi
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2021, 02:23:52 pm »
Wow thanks for the reply full of information mate appreciate it!

To be far most of the time there is no smoke. It really only does it before the EML light comes on about the cat O2 sensor because my decat is not mapped out. It also mainly does it when you cruise slowly for a while or in traffic and you pull away. It's never on boost or driving fast ext. I got my friend to see as I rev it on on idle he said it looked black no blue.

I do have a catch can so the pcv has been removed to support the catch can.

As for turbo it's actually brand new 3 months old by turbo express hybrid (not remapped in yet)

I'm just waiting to get back the car to him to redo the chain and check it all I'm not sure where he went wrong or if he did. Fingers crossed I guess.

He said he will redo it free if he finds it was wrong of it wasn't wrong he will charge me 170
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Offline vRSAlex

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Re: Timing chain tentioner issue ? Or good? After Replacement 2.0tfsi
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2021, 03:34:27 pm »
If you have a phase position figure and the requested and actual on idle are 28/28 then the timing is fine.
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Offline alexcon3

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Re: Timing chain tentioner issue ? Or good? After Replacement 2.0tfsi
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2021, 02:58:36 am »
Thanks mate,

Was just on AKS tuning site as well browsing some goodies 😂

Do you work for them ? Does the chain reading matter then if the phase positions are ok ?

Also do you guys do boost leak tests. Out of no where today the car lost about 20-30% boost. Checked requested and actual and it's out by about 10-15% Checked all pips and couldn't spot anything obvious and zero oil. Can hear air somewhere though on hard boost. Tue o is new. I will check my DV and see
Golf MK5 GTi 2.0 TFSI AXX