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Author Topic: Engine cutting out  (Read 272 times)

Offline crashs2k

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Engine cutting out
« on: September 05, 2021, 10:34:44 pm »
Hi,

Hope you are all well.

I've been having a few intermittent issues with my 2008 GTI.  First happened going uphill with engine cutting out and not holding idle followed by EPC, traction control and ABS lights coming on.  Managed to get it home by restarting several times and making sure I was giving it some throttle so the engine wouldn't cut out when approaching a stop at lights, roundabouts etc.

My local specialist cleared fault codes and noticed some issues with throttle valve wiring (adjusted pins) and air mass pins (water damage).  They also checked live operation of throttle valve which checked out to be ok.  Has been fine for a while but now issues have come back and the check engine light is now on permanently.

VCDS scan shows the following fault codes:
4 Faults Found:
005476 - Throttle Actuator (J338)
               P1564 - 002 - Under-Voltage during Basic Setting - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 136354 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 100.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 68.0°C
                    Temperature: 27.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 9.779 V

000289 - Throttle Position Sensor (G69)
               P0121 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 137142 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 12:24:36

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1520 /min
                    Load: 22.0 %
                    Speed: 62.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 92.0°C
                    Temperature: 32.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.224 V

000545 - Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle (G188)
               P0221 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 137142 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 12:24:36

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1520 /min
                    Load: 22.0 %
                    Speed: 62.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 92.0°C
                    Temperature: 32.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.224 V

005445 - Throttle Valve Controller
               P1545 - 002 - Malfunction - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 137154 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 12:44:45

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 911 /min
                    Load: 27.8 %
                    Speed: 40.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 91.0°C
                    Temperature: 31.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.097 V

01314 - Engine Control Module
            013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101101
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 220
                    Mileage: 137143 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    Count: 0
                    Count: 32768
                    Count: 12800
                    Count: 8196
                    Count: 52030
                    Count: 2
                    Count: 0
                    Count: 0

I've done some research on the forums and could be throttle body, throttle position sensor or wiring (ECM - throttle valve: TSB 2018652/2).

My local specialist is at a bit of a loss and has suggested to clear fault codes and drive again until it happens.  Not sure what that solves and I don't really want to have an unreliable car that cuts out (on a motorway with my wife driving would be worse-case scenario).

Any thoughts from the gurus on the forum before I start replacing components and hope it resolves the problem?

Thanks,
John

Offline Pudding

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Re: Engine cutting out
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2021, 05:54:00 pm »
There are a couple of known issues on the throttle side.

1) The wiring harness that runs under the intake manifold can chaff/wear through and short out.
2) The factory fitted VDO branded throttle body was updated to a Continental branded part at some point in the production cycle.

It sounds like 1) is the likely culprit from your description.

The MAF wiring shouldn't suffer water damage.  Has someone meddled with the wiring on your engine at some point?

If it ends up being 2), prepare yourself for a £300 odd bill from VW!

VW sell a 'repair' kit for 1) btw, which is basically pre-terminated wires with new pins to slide into the throttle body plug, and the other ends get crimped/soldered onto the harness after the dodgy section has been cut out.



2007 ED30 | Ohlins Coilovers | Revo Map | Plus some other stuff | Is all a GTI needs :-)

Offline crashs2k

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Re: Engine cutting out
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2021, 11:09:40 pm »
Thanks for the response Pudding.

Indie has picked up misfires on cylinders 1 and 3 which were causing the CEL. He was planning on doing a smoke test for leaks but we needed the car back today.

Will go back to them for service next month for injector cleaning / de-carbon and potentially wiring / TB.

She’s a keeper and had planned to do some maintenance work on her anyway - just need to dip into the maintenance fund more than planned!

Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge on suspension refresh - am planning on replacing bushes and OEM shocks based on your threads / discussions.  :notworthy:

Stage 1 will have to wait until next year! Until then  :driver:


Offline Pudding

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Re: Engine cutting out
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2021, 10:22:20 am »
Yeah get the foundations nice and solid first, the mods can wait  :happy2:

It's amazing how much faster and smoother the engine can be just by fixing problems.  Some people launch straight into the mods without fixing underlying problems first and end up being disappointed.


2007 ED30 | Ohlins Coilovers | Revo Map | Plus some other stuff | Is all a GTI needs :-)

Offline crashs2k

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Re: Engine cutting out
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2021, 09:39:19 pm »
So the saga continues....

Got my car back from the indie on Friday.  He had diagnosed that one of the vacuum breather hoses was split in 2 and needed replacing.  It was only a minor split and would only be leaking when the engine was under load and hence causing intermittent misfire.

Replaced the hose and also had to fit a new water pipe / vacuum pipe and breather valve for the cooling system.  CEL no longer present and car returned with no fault codes on the dash and wallet lighter to the tune of £350.

Unfortunately, during the usual Saturday ferrying children to various activities (and managed to take the car for a little thrash to make sure everything was ok) the warning lights have returned.  Ironically not on the initial morning run when I was extending the engine but in the afternoon just normal pootling around in traffic / dual carriageways at 60mph.

Not the CEL but EPC, traction control and ABS warning lights this time (which was the original problem I had back in May).

Am at a little bit of a loss and somewhat reluctant to take it back to the indie given that this is their 2nd attempt at rectifying the problem but we don't seem to be diagnosing root-cause.

VCDS scan:

4 Faults Found:
000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
               P0300 - 001 -  - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 137724 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 14:48:44

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 4029 /min
                    Load: 100.0 %
                    Speed: 108.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 91.0°C
                    Temperature: 38.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.970 V

000771 - Cylinder 3
               P0303 - 001 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 137724 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 14:48:44

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 4029 /min
                    Load: 100.0 %
                    Speed: 108.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 91.0°C
                    Temperature: 38.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.970 V

000770 - Cylinder 2
               P0302 - 001 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 137724 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 14:48:44

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 4029 /min
                    Load: 100.0 %
                    Speed: 108.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 91.0°C
                    Temperature: 38.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.970 V

000289 - Throttle Position Sensor (G69)
               P0121 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 137775 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 14:19:05

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2241 /min
                    Load: 43.9 %
                    Speed: 92.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 93.0°C
                    Temperature: 31.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.097 V


Readiness: 0010 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (-----)       Labels:. 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 AN    HW: 1K0 907 379 AN
   Component: ESP MK60EC1   H45 0107 
   Revision: 00H45001   
   Coding: 163B600D092200FA680C06ED901F00813400
   Shop #: WSC 45073 002 1048576
   VCID: 7EA5FA8470F9CF6BD5E-802A

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
            013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101101
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 13
                    Mileage: 137714 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    Count: 7
                    Count: 4
                    Count: 4864
                    Count: 8196
                    Count: 45568
                    Count: 7935
                    Count: 0
                    Count: 0



Offline GVK

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Re: Engine cutting out
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 01:49:04 am »
Surely they should be diagnosing it it, not yourself, it needs a throttle body on it or the modified wiring loom to stop the cutting out, the misfire codes are probably a coil pack.

What area are you in?
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:51:22 am by GVK »
Reflex Silver Edition 30  ! VAG scans in South Lincs/Cambs/West Norfolk.

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Offline crashs2k

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Re: Engine cutting out
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 08:24:11 am »
Am in St. Albans / Hertfordshire.

I do think that the vacuum hose they replaced was causing an issue as at one point I had misfires on all 4 cylinders.

Any other VW independents recommendations?  Dealer service department won't even return my calls to get my car booked in!

AKS has quoted a replacement body as being £600.

Thanks,
John
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:26:08 am by crashs2k »

Offline GVK

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Re: Engine cutting out
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 11:45:13 am »
Sorry don't know of any specialists in that area, £600 seems steep!

SCC are or were Ford specialists in St Albans but i'm not sure if they work on VW?

https://www.car-clinic.info/
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:50:06 am by GVK »
Reflex Silver Edition 30  ! VAG scans in South Lincs/Cambs/West Norfolk.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/gvkmotorsport

Offline LC5F

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Re: Engine cutting out
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 06:47:28 pm »
Is that £600 just for the part or fitment too?
To get at the loom it would need the intake manifold off - an awkward job, wonder what the book rate is for that.

The whole change in brand Pudding was talking about is intriguing - why would a tyre company be making intake throttles - Simple, they bought out VDO. 
The continental site links into the VDO online catalogue:https://web.tecalliance.net/vdo/en/home
assuming I found the correct part - the going rate for a new VDO/Continental one is around £200 - There is one on ebay currently for £150.