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Author Topic: spring rates  (Read 8454 times)

Offline the bruce

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spring rates
« on: June 22, 2011, 11:44:39 am »
I was looking for spring rates.


I've found these:


edit:

Motion Ratio front (fixed) .98 ;  Motion Ratio rear (fixed) .65

some more added:


1.
Tein springs G5 GTI:
Spring Rate (Front) (kg/lbs):  2.9 / 160
Spring Rate (Rear) (kg/lbs):  3.8 / 210

>>  29 and 38 N/mm 


2.
Volkswagen Racing UK springs:
(similar VW Zubehör/Driver Gear > different sources)

>>  31 and 33 N/mm


3.
Volkswagen Driver Gear:
Front 42N/mm, Rear 40N/mm linear rate

>> 42 and 40 N/mm


4.
Tein suspension:
Spring Rate (Front) (kg/lbs):   5 / 280
Spring Rate (Rear) (kg/lbs):  4 / 220

>>  50 and 40 N/mm 


5.
B16 PSS 10 Golf 5:
215 f, 285 r (both progressive)
Front: E4-FD1-Y704A00 = progressive; initial rate 32.8N/mm (approx 190lbs/in), secondary rate 43.4N/mm (approx 250lbs/in)
Rear: E4-FD1-Y754A00 = progressive; initial rate 33.0N/mm (approx 190lbs/in), secondary rate 50.1N/mm (approx 285lbs/in)
At static height:

>>  39 and 51 N/mm  (R32 B16: 250F and 285R lbs/inch)


6.
H&R Monotube:
VA 45 N/mm; HA 40 N/mm (29014-2) progressive

>> 45 and 40 N/mm


7.
KW Variant 3 Coilovers:
in fact these are progressive (data provided by manufacturer)

>> 50.56 and 44.17 N/mm


8.
H&R Monotube low:
VA 45 N/mm; HA 55 N/mm (29000-3) progressive

>> 45 and 55 N/mm


9.
AST 4100:
Spring Type/Rates:
2 Front 60mm Coilover Springs, 7" Long
2 Rear Swift 60mm Coilover Springs, 9" Long
The GTS package is 350 lbs/in front, 250 lbs/in rear

>> 64 and 45 N/mm


10.
K-sport springs are:
Spring Rate (Front) (kg/lbs): 7.4 / 414
Spring Rate (Rear) (kg/lbs):  4 / 224

>>  74 and 40 N/mm 


11.
Ground Control: Öhlins dampers + Eibach springs:
spring rates 450/in front and 350/in rear

>> 81 and 63 N/mm 


12.
Tein coilover:
Spring Rate (Front) (kg/lbs):    8 / 450
Spring Rate (Rear) (kg/lbs):   8 / 450    

>>  80 and 80 N/mm 


13.
K-Sport Schweiz Version 'Street':
VA = 9kg/mm; HA = 4.5kg/mm

>>  90 and 45 N/mm


14.
IS Racing SPORT:
VA 9kg
HA 5kg

>>  90 and 50 N/mm


15.
KW Clubsport Golf V/VI:
90  N/mm front and 70 N/mm rear
Federlänge 170 mm front and rear + helpersprings (10-60-80 vo + 20-60-80 hi)

>>  90 and 70 N/mm  (Audi A3 rear 80-200)


16.
VWR Suspension Kit:
90-170 and 70-170 + helper springs

>>  90 and 70 N/mm


17.
H&R Clubsport RSS:
514 front, 571 rear

>> 90 and 100 N/mm


18.
H&R Clubsport RSA Flachwerk:
VA. 160-60-110
HA: 160-60-80

>> 110 and 80 N/mm


19.
AST Coilover:
130kg (740 lb/in) and 90kg (513 lb/in)

>>  130 and 90 N/mm


20.
K-Sport with custom springs:
I was going to start w/ F: 12K, R: 7.4K

>>  120 and 74 N/mm


21.
K-Sport Schweiz Version Rally Asphalt:
VA = 12kg/mm
HA = 8kg/mm

>>  120 and 80 N/mm


22.
FYI - I installed the Ksports w/ different springs
Front: 12Kg, Rear: 8Kg
After a week worth of DDing, The spring rates don't seem high enough and the shocks don't
seem able to handle the increased spring rates (I've got them on full stiff and they feel good
for the street, but I'd want stiffer for AutoX/track).

>>  120 and 80 N/mm


23.
KW Competition 3-way, VA 120/140 and HA 90/140

>>  120 and 90 N/mm


24.
Mine is 16kg/mm for front, 12kg/mm for rear.
Suspension is Bilstein PSS9, with third party made high rated spring and attachment.
Attachment is made of aluminum billet, grinded.

>>  160 and 120 N/mm


25.
IS Racing RACE:
VA 16kg
HA 18kg

>>  160 and 180 N/mm


26.
K-Sport Schweiz Version Track:
VA = 16kg/mm; HA = 18kg/mm

>>  160 and 180 N/mm


27.
H&R Slalom coilover:
spring rates 180 front and 160 N/mm rear
lengh 120 mm front and 160 mm rear

>>  180 and 160 N/mm
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 06:21:18 pm by the bruce »
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Offline the bruce

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2011, 01:55:29 pm »
11.
KW Competition 3-way for Nürburgring:

>>  120 N/mm und 90 N/mm
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Offline PDT

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2011, 02:38:08 pm »
Spring rates can be tricky to measure, especially if the spring is progressively wound. The old fasiones method of kg or pounds per inch doesn't apply to progressively wound springs in the same way. You also need to take pre-load into account.

All B16 springs are H&R, but made especially for Bilstein, although this is changing soon and all Bilstein kits will come with Eibach.

Offline Carrera2RS

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2011, 02:50:32 pm »
I guess my PSS10's are the same as the PSS9's

They are stiffer than I expected but with the right damper settings are still comfortable enough

Offline PDT

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2011, 04:23:40 pm »
Pss10 have the same spring part number as pss9. Just the damper thats different.

Offline the bruce

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2011, 04:59:58 pm »
Any data of unmodified Bilstein B16 springs?

 :driver:


Just made some changes and additions:


1.
Tein springs G5 GTI:
Spring Rate (Front) (kg/lbs):  2.9 / 160
Spring Rate (Rear) (kg/lbs):  3.8 / 210

>>  29 and 38 N/mm 


2.
Tein suspension:
Spring Rate (Front) (kg/lbs):   5 / 280
Spring Rate (Rear) (kg/lbs):  4 / 220

>>  50 and 40 N/mm 


3.
K-sport springs are:
Spring Rate (Front) (kg/lbs): 7.4 / 414
Spring Rate (Rear) (kg/lbs):  4 / 224

>>  74 and 40 N/mm 


4.
Tein coilover:
Spring Rate (Front) (kg/lbs):    8 / 450
Spring Rate (Rear) (kg/lbs):   8 / 450    

>>  80 N/mm and 80 N/mm 


5.
IS Racing SPORT:
VA 9kg
HA 5kg

>>  90 N/mm and 50 N/mm


6.
KW Clubsport Golf V/VI:
90  N/mm front and 70 N/mm rear
Federlänge 170 mm front and rear + helpersprings (10-60-80 vo + 20-60-80 hi)

>>  90 N/mm and 70 N/mm  (Audi A3 rear 80-200)


7.
VWR Suspension Kit:
90-170 and 70-170

>>  90 N/mm and 70 N/mm


8.
K-Sport with custom springs:
I was going to start w/ F: 12K, R: 7.4K

>>  120 N/mm and 74 N/mm


9.
FYI - I installed the Ksports w/ different springs
Front: 12Kg, Rear: 8Kg
After a week worth of DDing, The spring rates don't seem high enough and the shocks don't
seem able to handle the increased spring rates (I've got them on full stiff and they feel good
for the street, but I'd want stiffer for AutoX/track).

>>  120 N/mm and 80 N/mm


10.
Competition 3fach, VA 120/140 und HA 90/140

>>  120 N/mm and 90 N/mm


11.
Mine is 16kg/mm for front, 12kg/mm for rear.
Suspension is Bilstein PSS9, with third party made high rated spring and attachment.
Attachment is made of aluminum billet, grinded.

>>  160 N/mm and 120 N/mm


12.
IS Racing RACE:
VA 16kg
HA 18kg

>>  160 N/mm and 180 N/mm


13.
H&R Slalom coilover:
spring rates 180 front and 160 N/mm rear
lengh 120 mm front and 160 mm rear

>>  180 N/mm and 160 N/mm



If anybody sells the blue VWR springs 90-170 and 70-170 including the helper springs . . .

 :wink:
"You get what you pay for."

Offline E30Dom

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2012, 08:45:36 am »
14. KW Variant 3 Coilovers

Front = 50.56N/mm
Rear = 44.17N/mm
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Offline the bruce

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2012, 02:59:40 pm »
Motion Ratio front (fixed) .98 ;  Motion Ratio rear (fixed) .65

some more added:


1.
Tein springs G5 GTI:
Spring Rate (Front) (kg/lbs):  2.9 / 160
Spring Rate (Rear) (kg/lbs):  3.8 / 210

>>  29 and 38 N/mm


2.
Volkswagen Racing UK springs:
(similar VW Zubehör/Driver Gear > different sources)

>>  31 and 33 N/mm


3.
Volkswagen Driver Gear:
Front 42N/mm, Rear 40N/mm linear rate

>> 42 and 40 N/mm


4.
Tein suspension:
Spring Rate (Front) (kg/lbs):   5 / 280
Spring Rate (Rear) (kg/lbs):  4 / 220

>>  50 and 40 N/mm


5.
B16 PSS 10 Golf 5:
215 f, 285 r (both progressive)
Front: E4-FD1-Y704A00 = progressive; initial rate 32.8N/mm (approx 190lbs/in), secondary rate 43.4N/mm (approx 250lbs/in)
Rear: E4-FD1-Y754A00 = progressive; initial rate 33.0N/mm (approx 190lbs/in), secondary rate 50.1N/mm (approx 285lbs/in)
At static height:

>>  39 and 51 N/mm  (R32 B16: 250F and 285R lbs/inch)


6.
H&R Monotube:
VA 45 N/mm; HA 40 N/mm (29014-2) progressive

>> 45 and 40 N/mm


7.
KW Variant 3 Coilovers:
in fact these are progressive (data provided by manufacturer)

>> 50.56 and 44.17 N/mm


8.
H&R Monotube low:
VA 45 N/mm; HA 55 N/mm (29000-3) progressive

>> 45 and 55 N/mm


9.
AST 4100:
Spring Type/Rates:
2 Front 60mm Coilover Springs, 7" Long
2 Rear Swift 60mm Coilover Springs, 9" Long
The GTS package is 350 lbs/in front, 250 lbs/in rear

>> 64 and 45 N/mm


10.
K-sport springs are:
Spring Rate (Front) (kg/lbs): 7.4 / 414
Spring Rate (Rear) (kg/lbs):  4 / 224

>>  74 and 40 N/mm


11.
Ground Control: Öhlins dampers + Eibach springs:
spring rates 450/in front and 350/in rear

>> 81 and 63 N/mm  


12.
Tein coilover:
Spring Rate (Front) (kg/lbs):    8 / 450
Spring Rate (Rear) (kg/lbs):   8 / 450    

>>  80 and 80 N/mm


13.
K-Sport Schweiz Version 'Street':
VA = 9kg/mm; HA = 4.5kg/mm

>>  90 and 45 N/mm


14.
IS Racing SPORT:
VA 9kg
HA 5kg

>>  90 and 50 N/mm


15.
KW Clubsport Golf V/VI:
90  N/mm front and 70 N/mm rear
Federlänge 170 mm front and rear + helpersprings (10-60-80 vo + 20-60-80 hi)

>>  90 and 70 N/mm  (Audi A3 rear 80-200)


16.
VWR Suspension Kit:
90-170 and 70-170 + helper springs

>>  90 and 70 N/mm


17.
H&R Clubsport RSS:
514 front, 571 rear

>> 90 and 100 N/mm


18.
H&R Clubsport RSA Flachwerk:
VA. 160-60-110
HA: 160-60-80

>> 110 and 80 N/mm


19.
AST Coilover:
130kg (740 lb/in) and 90kg (513 lb/in)

>>  130 and 90 N/mm


20.
K-Sport with custom springs:
I was going to start w/ F: 12K, R: 7.4K

>>  120 and 74 N/mm


21.
K-Sport Schweiz Version Rally Asphalt:
VA = 12kg/mm
HA = 8kg/mm

>>  120 and 80 N/mm


22.
FYI - I installed the Ksports w/ different springs
Front: 12Kg, Rear: 8Kg
After a week worth of DDing, The spring rates don't seem high enough and the shocks don't
seem able to handle the increased spring rates (I've got them on full stiff and they feel good
for the street, but I'd want stiffer for AutoX/track).

>>  120 and 80 N/mm


23.
KW Competition 3-way, VA 120/140 and HA 90/140

>>  120 and 90 N/mm


24.
Mine is 16kg/mm for front, 12kg/mm for rear.
Suspension is Bilstein PSS9, with third party made high rated spring and attachment.
Attachment is made of aluminum billet, grinded.

>>  160 and 120 N/mm


25.
IS Racing RACE:
VA 16kg
HA 18kg

>>  160 and 180 N/mm


26.
K-Sport Schweiz Version Track:
VA = 16kg/mm; HA = 18kg/mm

>>  160 and 180 N/mm


27.
H&R Slalom coilover:
spring rates 180 front and 160 N/mm rear
lengh 120 mm front and 160 mm rear

>>  180 and 160 N/mm
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 06:27:49 pm by the bruce »
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Offline fuscobal

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2014, 09:27:35 am »
Ok Bruce, so MR for our cars is 0.98 front and 0.65 rear. I wonder if anyone measured the angle correction factor since it has a slight impact on the wheel rate formula. Would be nice to make some calculation for our cars here so it will help us better choose spring rates for custom coilovers.

WR = wheel rate
MR = motion rate
ACF = angle correction factor ( http://eibach.com/america/en/motorsport/products/suspension-worksheet )
C = spring rate

We know MR and spring rate for various coilovers or we want to substract de C from the formula > WR = MR^2*C*ACF. Now, what I don't know :
- for the spring rate I guess we should also take into account the rate of the sway bars which I don't know but will search into
- how do we match the wheel rate to the car's weight distribution (let's say 60/40) ?
Mk5 GTI 6MT - Revo stage 3

Offline the bruce

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2014, 10:03:08 pm »
Now, what I don't know :

- for the spring rate I guess we should also take into account the rate of the sway bars which I don't know but will search into

- how do we match the wheel rate to the car's weight distribution (let's say 60/40) ?

About sway bar rates:

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?s=3fb737ce73d0cf517c2dba8be923973e&t=45368


General guideline:

Set the wheel rates (without sway bars) appr. to weight distribution or slightly higher on rear,
then tune balance to your needs with camber and sway bars. Note, roll centers are almost always
different on front and rear, requiring different sway bar rates of if you want the car to behave neutral.
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Offline fuscobal

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2014, 11:46:51 pm »
Used http://www.ridetech.com/info/spring-rate-calculator/ to calculate the springs and it shows 450lbs (aprox 80N/mm on both front and rear). However, I see no sway bar taken into account in their formula !
Mk5 GTI 6MT - Revo stage 3

Offline fuscobal

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2015, 12:40:44 pm »
Hey Bruce, please add these :

AST 5100

Front > 70N/mm
Rear > 72N/mm

Warranty = 2 years / when suspension is used in racing / competition we can not offer you any warranty

Service: depending on the use of the suspension. Trackdays = 1 time every 3 years

They say the 5100 is the equivalent of B16/PSS10 (in terms of dampers maybe, springs are much stiffer)
Mk5 GTI 6MT - Revo stage 3

Offline ROH ECHT

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2021, 07:18:31 am »
I just mounted my third set of springs...Whiteline WSK-VWN002.
Rates are 31 N/mm-front & 40 N/mm-rear. Front springs are linear and progressive in back. Drop is less than I have had before with two previous sets. The FTG is 25-1/4 inch (having just been installed with Bilstein B8).
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Offline Pudding

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Re: spring rates
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2021, 08:34:03 pm »
That's pretty soft.  Not far off OEM rates?  VAG do tend to favour soft springs with stiff damping, but I prefer harder springs with softer damping personally.

Springs hold the car up, dampers do the damping  :happy2:

My Ohlins DFV are 70n/mm front and 60n/mm rear.  Feels spot on for a fast road car with occasional track work, imo.  Yes it's very firm, over twice factory stiffness, but with the matching dampers it's never jarring or unbearable on a daily basis. The MK5 can handle a very stiff spring as it's a torsionally rigid shell  :smiley:



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