All Things Mk5 > Performance Modifications
Revolution stage 1 generic
Janner_Sy:
--- Quote from: PDT on March 19, 2012, 09:19:57 pm ---I always start from the cars original stock file and then make a pre-determinedgeneric set of changes. These are always made to the cars original file and then Dyno tested and data logged. Further changes are then made based on the results of the datalogging and Dyno testing.
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Is that not just a play on words. So that's how you write yours, how do you write revos then? Pre determined(generic) set of changes or map with further tweaks once that's loaded?
The problem we have is to define a custom map, a tailored generic map and an install and forget generic file with no tweaks
heavyd:
So basically, its revolution 'generic' from unknown supplier £350 no rr or datalogging, or £299 for PDt with before and after RR sessions and datalogging, Maxitrol wants Revo cos APR are ignoring him, and now its the generic custom vs generic remap debate :signLOL:
:popcornsoda: :popcornsoda: :popcornsoda:
PDT:
The amount of work put into a map will depend on the spec of the engine, a stock car will not require a lot of changes from your 'pre determined' changes that you have made.
Saying that, its unlikely that the car will be perfect without further changes to the map. Some customers will use 95 ron, others 98, some want a more progressive power delivery, others want a very responsive aggressive map.
Generic maps are ready made, used by tuners that will just match a hardware number and flash it on with a 'that'll do, it was ok on the last car it was used on' attitude. They might have 5-6 ready made software versions that are just re-used time and time again. We often see cars with software that contains a completely different hardware and software number from that on the ECU when it left the factory, many cars with other cars chassis numbers, some cars with software from different model versions i.e pd150 stock maps copied and pasted into a PD115 ecu.
A generic map can be good, it can be pants. Its buyers beware to a certain extent, but at the very least the tuner should be checking the work by datalogging/dyno testing. the amount of cars we have seen over the years that have had cheap flash and hope remaps that have caused issues is scary, tfsi's with timing pull of 8-9, diesels with massive injection demands, diesel files with only fuel pressure raised and nothing else, BMW's with the rpm limiter set at 10,000 rpm.....
Generic diesel tuning is acceptable to an extent, but should still always be checked and not just flashed onto the ECU and driven away.
The problem is that even the worst of the worst tuners using cloned tools and map files are claiming to be offering the highest quality custom maps for £100, ideally the industry should be regulated in some way.
PDT:
Something I wrote on here a while back:
--- Quote from: PDT on February 20, 2011, 11:26:38 am ---Good debate this one, and a question I am asked daily is 'can you do custom maps and how is it better than a generic map?'
The explanation could go into 3+ pages but a general rule is that a generic map is a 1 size fits all product, suitable for a wide range of applications and is not and can not be adjusted by the end user. i.e bluefin or 'flash remaps'. Flash remaps are a simple procedure where you take the car to a 'tuner' ( I use the term tuner very loosely for this type of remap option) and they get an ID of your ECU type and software version and email it to a 3rd party that will copy and paste the changed settings that were made for a similar ECU and car into a file and send it back, this file is then flashed over your current software, you get the keys back and the 'tuner' hopes it doesnt have any problems. The worst type of flash tuning is usually carried out from a back of a van.
A custom map will be very different, the tuner will likely be making the software themselfes rather than sending it away to a 3rd party and the use of a dyno is essential for back to back testing and measuring, however the use of a dyno does not define a custom map, its just a very very handy tool to have to determine wether ther changes you have made are making any real difference to power, emmissions, torque and various other parameters. A dyno allows you to back to back test the effect of the customising of the map in a controlled and safe environment. I.e if you add ignition advance is it making extra power? Is that extra bit of fuel you have added at 3000 rpm at 80% throttle lowered the exhaust gas temps to a safer levels, or has it effected the power output in any way? You get the idea, its time consuming and costly but you get the best end product available, not essesntial for the average stage 1 car but for motorsport or highly modded stuff its a must.
Then you get the middle ground such as REVO, which offers the best of both worlds. A simple sliding scale to adjust the boost, timing and fueling properties within the map and can be accurately adjusted with on-road datalogging to get a good end product. Yes it is custom to a certain extent but lacks the resolution of a genuine custom map as you can only adjust 3 parameters on a 2D sliding scale, no single adjustments for fuel vs throttle position for example, but for a quick easy product they are the market leaders for a very good reason.
As a guide, anyone that offers a 'full custom map' without the use of a dyno is cutting corners a little. Anyone that offers a custom map without any datalogging is either missinformed or pulling the wool over your eyes. We had a customer in yesterday that had a 'proper custom remap' (his words) that cost just £200 and was finished in just 10 mins, he was enquiring about rolling road testing as he couldnt tell the difference after it was done apart from it was jerky at low throttle, the 'tuner' said it will get better when the weather isnt so cold :grin:
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Janner_Sy:
--- Quote ---the middle ground such as REVO, which offers the best of both worlds. A simple sliding scale to adjust the boost, timing and fueling properties within the map and can be accurately adjusted with on-road datalogging to get a good end product. Yes it is custom to a certain extent but lacks the resolution of a genuine custom map as you can only adjust 3 parameters on a 2D sliding scale, no single adjustments for fuel vs throttle position for example, but for a quick easy product they are the market leaders for a very good reason.
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This is how it was explained to me, but the 'no single point adjustment' and the limit of only '3 parameters of adjustment along a fixed preset scale' were highlighted as the main weakpoints of the revo maps. But you get a good result which is what sells maps at the end of the day
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