All Things Mk5 > Performance Modifications
does a dsg remap definitely increase torque?
RedRobin:
--- Quote from: GTI5 on September 19, 2012, 07:36:25 pm ---
Does modifying the DSG as discussed above reduce the life of the gearbox components significantly?
Also what about impact to engine mounts/transmission mounts and cv joint bearings etc
Thanks
--- End quote ---
....Regarding remapping the DSG, I don't know for certain but I think that it could help the gearbox longevity. I say this because it definitely makes the dsg shifts etc much smoother. However, if you do lots of Launch Controls, regardless of the DSG being remapped or not, it would stress the gearbox more.
Regarding aftermarket engine mounts, they reduce a lot of engine movement and so the transmission is again smoother and delivers the power to the wheels better. I don't think that a DSG remap will adversely effect a car with OEM engine mounts. The DSG remap is subtle, not giving a big torque kick.
Keith@APR:
--- Quote from: GTI5 on September 19, 2012, 07:36:25 pm ---Does modifying the DSG as discussed above reduce the life of the gearbox components significantly?
Also what about impact to engine mounts/transmission mounts and cv joint bearings etc
Thanks
--- End quote ---
Significantly no, but it will generate more heat which will wear all parts of the DSG more quickly but nothing to worry about. The DSG is designed and intended to last 100k miles or more and with a remap, depending on who made it I guess, you could be in trouble around 80k miles or more. Its also very complicated as in 1 in 1 million DSG's standard may fail below 100k miles and with a remap now 2 in 1 million may fail (not exact numbers but you get the idea of how it works). The other 999,998 may be just fine.
So, simple answer, no.
RedRobin:
--- Quote from: Keith@APR on September 25, 2012, 03:39:48 pm ---
Significantly no, but it will generate more heat which will wear all parts of the DSG more quickly but nothing to worry about. The DSG is designed and intended to last 100k miles or more and with a remap, depending on who made it I guess, you could be in trouble around 80k miles or more. Its also very complicated as in 1 in 1 million DSG's standard may fail below 100k miles and with a remap now 2 in 1 million may fail (not exact numbers but you get the idea of how it works). The other 999,998 may be just fine.
--- End quote ---
....I would have expected a German car manufacturer to have designed it to last a lot longer than 100k miles.
The DSG remap on my K03 car seems very subtle and so it's not easy to understand how a significant amount of extra heat is generated and how it would be detrimental.
Keith@APR:
--- Quote from: RedRobin on September 25, 2012, 03:50:11 pm ---
--- Quote from: Keith@APR on September 25, 2012, 03:39:48 pm ---
Significantly no, but it will generate more heat which will wear all parts of the DSG more quickly but nothing to worry about. The DSG is designed and intended to last 100k miles or more and with a remap, depending on who made it I guess, you could be in trouble around 80k miles or more. Its also very complicated as in 1 in 1 million DSG's standard may fail below 100k miles and with a remap now 2 in 1 million may fail (not exact numbers but you get the idea of how it works). The other 999,998 may be just fine.
--- End quote ---
....I would have expected a German car manufacturer to have designed it to last a lot longer than 100k miles.
The DSG remap on my K03 car seems very subtle and so it's not easy to understand how a significant amount of extra heat is generated and how it would be detrimental.
--- End quote ---
Its the sliding scale and number of failures. Most OEM's follow Six Sigma with every part they make or source or design. However, their primary concern is the warranty period so when the bean counters get involved in reducing costs, Six Sigma may be thrown out the window. From the engineers I know inside the VW Group, engines and components are designed to 150k miles and transmissions and components are designed to 100k miles considering a mixed use by the consumer. Testing procedures are secret and vary but all try to recreate how the average customer will use the car. Porsche goes a little bit further and so do Audi S and RS models where their testing procedures incorporate more spirited use of the vehicles.
All OEMs have an internal policy on the accepted number of failures at x number of miles or hours. Its all relative however to many variables. If you exceed torque ratings, etc. and drive it hard, often, your risk of failure greatly increases. If you exceed torque ratings but never use the torque, it may not fail any more quickly than a standard.
Remapping changes the shift points and the speed at which the clutches engage. Both of these increase the gear box temperatures. So do increases in torque. Shifting at 7200 rpm's instead of 6850 rpm's is going to generate more heat, no way around that. Slipping the clutches faster with a quicker engagement is going to generate more heat as well, no way around that.
For example, let's say VW/Borg Warner designed the DSG transmission to last 100k miles at an average gear box temp of 40 deg c. Remapping it may result in average temps of say 45 deg c depending on how you drive. The extra 5 deg c will reduce the life. How much? Don't know, nobody other than perhaps the OEM has tested it.
RedRobin:
^^^^
That's a very helpful and informative reply, Keith :drinking:
In my own case I'm at 103k miles but only had the DSG remap since ~78k miles. My style of driving is spirited when conditions allow doing so safely but I use the gears and never rely on torque from lower revs. Also I shift gear before ~5,000 revs as there is less power up there on my Revo Stage 2 K03 GTI. I also use engine braking through shifting gears more than trailing the brakes. As I have been driving for nearly 50 years I guess I am old school in my driving habits.
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