All Things Mk5 > Performance Modifications
Hpfp upgrade
DaveB@Vagbremtechnic:
--- Quote from: Janner_Sy on January 31, 2013, 12:43:27 pm ---
--- Quote from: DaveB1970 on January 30, 2013, 09:52:12 pm ---At (an assumed) £50 per pump that's 60,000 pumps even for a global company like APR that's a lot of pumps and a lot of testing I'm assuming you're batch testing and not testing every pump in which case what's the batch rate? In which case every pump doesn't get tested
60,000 pumps taking 45 minutes per pump is 45,000 hours and the average American doing 40 hours per week with 4 weeks leave that's 25 guys in a room assembling pumps all day......that's with no lunch...
--- End quote ---
I see where you are coming from but I dont see where APR have said that they have recovered costs on this $3mil test rig, so assuming they have and stating that would require 60,000 pumps is irrelevant.
They might well have only sold 10,000 pumps, 5000 pumps or even 1000 pumps who knows which renders that theory null and void. Theres alot of assumptions being made there, they might not even be close to recovering that cost, plus if they are only selling minor quantities then testing of each could be possible, but i dont know, thats just an assumption as well :laugh:
--- End quote ---
Si
I'm fully expecting to apologise and yes loads of assumptions made I'm not privvy to the internal workings of APR.
But a 5 Million USD (Not 3million USD) piece of test equipment is a MAJOR investment for BP never mind a succesful LLC from Alibama. I would foresee that if the test kit is that price then I would suggest that its the people that Machine for APR's machine and not APR themselves......
But from a sales and marketing point of view that's NOWHERE near as sexy sounding as how it reads above.
Again the APR pumps good and if the Loba pump is as good they've still got a lot of catching up to do by no other virtue of the fact that the APR item is well established.
Its just sometimes the Bullsh*tometer hits the opposite needle and here we are discussing that rather than the many happy pump customers APR have globally.....
I don't want to fall out with anybody....but let's not profess to be transparent whilst p1ssing in my pocket and telling me its raining
GNJ_Motorsport:
--- Quote from: DaveB1970 on January 31, 2013, 02:04:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: Janner_Sy on January 31, 2013, 12:43:27 pm ---
--- Quote from: DaveB1970 on January 30, 2013, 09:52:12 pm ---At (an assumed) £50 per pump that's 60,000 pumps even for a global company like APR that's a lot of pumps and a lot of testing I'm assuming you're batch testing and not testing every pump in which case what's the batch rate? In which case every pump doesn't get tested
60,000 pumps taking 45 minutes per pump is 45,000 hours and the average American doing 40 hours per week with 4 weeks leave that's 25 guys in a room assembling pumps all day......that's with no lunch...
--- End quote ---
I see where you are coming from but I dont see where APR have said that they have recovered costs on this $3mil test rig, so assuming they have and stating that would require 60,000 pumps is irrelevant.
They might well have only sold 10,000 pumps, 5000 pumps or even 1000 pumps who knows which renders that theory null and void. Theres alot of assumptions being made there, they might not even be close to recovering that cost, plus if they are only selling minor quantities then testing of each could be possible, but i dont know, thats just an assumption as well :laugh:
--- End quote ---
Si
I'm fully expecting to apologise and yes loads of assumptions made I'm not privvy to the internal workings of APR.
But a 5 Million USD (Not 3million USD) piece of test equipment is a MAJOR investment for BP never mind a succesful LLC from Alibama. I would foresee that if the test kit is that price then I would suggest that its the people that Machine for APR's machine and not APR themselves......
But from a sales and marketing point of view that's NOWHERE near as sexy sounding as how it reads above.
Again the APR pumps good and if the Loba pump is as good they've still got a lot of catching up to do by no other virtue of the fact that the APR item is well established.
Its just sometimes the Bullsh*tometer hits the opposite needle and here we are discussing that rather than the many happy pump customers APR have globally.....
I don't want to fall out with anybody....but let's not profess to be transparent whilst p1ssing in my pocket and telling me its raining
--- End quote ---
:signLOL:
Agree with all that, very well put.
RedRobin:
--- Quote from: Grizzle on January 31, 2013, 01:10:12 pm ---
I'm sorry but your really starting to get on my tits!
--- End quote ---
....Really? Simply because I have shared my opinions in this discussion?
--- Quote from: Grizzle on January 31, 2013, 01:10:12 pm ---
Why would a company who have a product, thought about it them selfs (in terms of the bits they wanted to add or upgrade), done research built the thing etc then come on here and reply to your question of how its different to exact detail spec and items upgraded and replaced.... ?
--- End quote ---
....Have you read the posts in this thread in which others apart from myself have voiced their disappointment in Loba's attitude about saying nothing about their product?
Why should they answer such questions? - Simply because potential customers ask such questions and the answers will influence their choice of purchase.
--- Quote from: Grizzle on January 31, 2013, 01:10:12 pm ---
You seriously have no business brain.
--- End quote ---
....Really? Then I wonder how on earth I managed to successfully run my own limited company business based in Chelsea, London for over 25 years and with blue-chip company clients and international projects.
--- Quote from: Grizzle on January 31, 2013, 01:10:12 pm ---
Apr are flavour of the month this time next year someone else will be flavour.
I'm not a huge purchaser of LOBA items i have recently bought the clutch and flywheel and the delivery, service and after care has been amazing, emails are replied to within mins at all times of the day from Simon, my next purchase from them will be a pump based purely on the service and the quality of the items i have previously bought not because everyone "Says" they are amazing.
--- End quote ---
....I respect that you personally have had extremely satisfactory service from Loba and also your contribution to this discussion in sharing your good experiences. I am not questioning that aspect.
In marketing a product, any organisation with a good "business brain" (as you describe it) understands that their product's sales success will be due partly to how it can be DIFFERENTIATED from its competitor's similar products. Now do you understand or do you still have itchy tits?
Keith@APR:
--- Quote from: DaveB1970 on January 30, 2013, 09:52:12 pm ---Full marks on engaging the debate Keith
Out of professional courtesy Im going to be extremely polite on the matter of the 3 Million GBP machine Keith
Name and model number of the machine please
...I was at one of the most accomplished Machine shops in the North West of England this afternoon supplying Rolls Royce Derby/F1 teams/MESM (an experimental clinical trials company) and running MAZAK 5 axis machines straight out of Japan and there's lots and lots of very raised eyebrows at that figure.
At (an assumed) £50 per pump that's 60,000 pumps even for a global company like APR that's a lot of pumps and a lot of testing I'm assuming you're batch testing and not testing every pump in which case what's the batch rate? In which case every pump doesn't get tested
60,000 pumps taking 45 minutes per pump is 45,000 hours and the average American doing 40 hours per week with 4 weeks leave that's 25 guys in a room assembling pumps all day......that's with no lunch...
in the interests of the aforementioned transparency can we have a little more info on the machine please, I'll happily eat humble pie and apologise publicly for being a doubting Thomas.
Or are they assembled off shore?
the product obviously works......very well....and APR should be applauded for turning out a good bit of kit, I'm hoping that the Sales and Marketing machine standard replies don't overshadow the product
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry. I think you are confused. We don't have that machine and its at a company that does the measurements for us. We looked at buying the machine ourselves and yeah, we were quoted $5mil. Its not a CNC machine, its a measurement machine used by the medical manufacturing industry.
Hope this helps.
Keith@APR:
--- Quote from: GNJ_Motorsport on January 30, 2013, 11:05:26 pm ---Appreciate the reply Keith, even if I think a lot of that came from the US book of sales jargon. Nobody has questioned the APR pumps quality, I don't think there is any doubting that at all.
I have actually run the Autotech before as well and I had no issues at all but I appreciate that going down that route has its obvious pitfalls. That is why we are really looking forward to testing the LOBA pump ourselves, on our £320k 2005 Volkswagen Golf :signLOL: (Joking)
--- End quote ---
Definition of JARGON
1
a : confused unintelligible language
b : a strange, outlandish, or barbarous language or dialect
c : a hybrid language or dialect simplified in vocabulary and grammar and used for communication between peoples of different speech
2
: the technical terminology or characteristic idiom of a special activity or group
3
: obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words
Jargon you say? Reread my post and I can't find any. :P
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