All Things Mk5 > Performance Modifications
Custom "retard" mapping?
Janner_Sy:
--- Quote from: xjay1337 on June 07, 2013, 02:49:49 pm ---Anyone who knows cars wouldn't touch a Superchips or any other flash map with a bargepole! :evilgrin:
--- End quote ---
On another hand. How many cars do you think the likes of REVO or APR (who are basically flash maps as graymk5GTI said above) have installed for the 2.0TFSI worldwide? HOw much R&D do you think REVO and APR have put in worldwide in countries with different fuel grades, altitudes, climatic conditions etc, how much more likely are the likes of REVO and APR to experience tuning issues (considering the sheer volume of maps they sell worldwide) as such have experience and undertstanding of the solutions, how many years have REVO and APR been mapping the 2.0TFSI? HOw many cars have REVO & APR tuned successfully for use in the many racing series available as a result of all that, how much extra do you think they understand the 2.0TFSI and ECU etc.
Then compare it to a small garage, such as R-TECH and many other small tuners, and ask the same questions as above? I remember reading the other day in a post on here, that R-TECH said they cant wait to finally tune a big turbo setup on a 2.0TFSI!!
Just because its a flash map, albeit an adjustable flash map,it doesnt mean that there hasnt been hundreds of hours, 1000s of miles of R&D. I for one like what R-TECH is doing at the moment, but is it much better than an APR or REVO map....probably not. six and two threes comes to mind.
xjay1337:
But it is better than a Revo map...
R-tech are hardly an emerging brand in the UK, they are very well known within the VAG community. Just as much so as Revo, to the "enthusiasts" at least.
Size of brand or number of people who use a certain product is not an indication of their quality.
Rtech don't advertise much, if at all. I've never actually seen an advert for R-tech on a website. But you see loads for Revo/AmD/APR.
Nick at Rtech is very very very knowledgeable. Not saying that the chief mappers at Revo aren't but you don't get them mapping your car, you get a map they wrote on ANOTHER car put onto yours, which may be slightly different.
Janner_Sy:
--- Quote from: xjay1337 on June 12, 2013, 04:58:29 pm ---But it is better than a Revo map...
--- End quote ---
On what basis though? You must have first hand experience of having both?
--- Quote from: xjay1337 on June 12, 2013, 04:58:29 pm ---R-tech are hardly an emerging brand in the UK, they are very well known within the VAG community. Just as much so as Revo, to the "enthusiasts" at least.
--- End quote ---
They might well be well known in the VAG scene but that is predominantly with the 1.8T which is vastly different to the 2.0TFSI and they are new with the 2.0TFSI in comparison. Hence all this very recent R&D done on James K04 and posting about how they cant wait to start working on a BT 2.0TFSI setup. I asked about getting my twincharger mapped there and they werent interested in developing software for a couple more years. So, say they decide next month that they are going to start 1.4TSI R&D, does the fact that they are well renowned in the VAG scene make up for the 3-4 years of extra R&D and tuning experience these "flash tuners" have on the 1.4TSI....no it doesnt.
--- Quote from: xjay1337 on June 12, 2013, 04:58:29 pm ---Nick at Rtech is very very very knowledgeable. Not saying that the chief mappers at Revo aren't but you don't get them mapping your car, you get a map they wrote on ANOTHER car put onto yours, which may be slightly different.
--- End quote ---
That he might be, but also bear in mind, he doesn't write software from the ground up on every custom map he does as he himself has even pointed this out in several posts on here. He has developed a solid base map(developed on ANOTHER car) which he will upload and then customize from there. This is no different really to a REVO maps being applied to the car and the likes of JKM, PDT etc then adjusting the settings and logs to suit the car and mods.
GrayMK5GTI:
--- Quote from: Janner_Sy on June 12, 2013, 05:12:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: xjay1337 on June 12, 2013, 04:58:29 pm ---But it is better than a Revo map...
--- End quote ---
On what basis though? You must have first hand experience of having both?
--- Quote from: xjay1337 on June 12, 2013, 04:58:29 pm ---R-tech are hardly an emerging brand in the UK, they are very well known within the VAG community. Just as much so as Revo, to the "enthusiasts" at least.
--- End quote ---
They might well be well known in the VAG scene but that is predominantly with the 1.8T which is vastly different to the 2.0TFSI and they are new with the 2.0TFSI in comparison. Hence all this very recent R&D done on James K04 and posting about how they cant wait to start working on a BT 2.0TFSI setup. I asked about getting my twincharger mapped there and they werent interested in developing software for a couple more years. So, say they decide next month that they are going to start 1.4TSI R&D, does the fact that they are well renowned in the VAG scene make up for the 3-4 years of extra R&D and tuning experience thes e "flash tuners" have on the 1.4TSI....no it doesnt.
--- Quote from: xjay1337 on June 12, 2013, 04:58:29 pm ---Nick at Rtech is very very very knowledgeable. Not saying that the chief mappers at Revo aren't but you don't get them mapping your car, you get a map they wrote on ANOTHER car put onto yours, which may be slightly different.
--- End quote ---
That he might be, but also bear in mind, he doesn't write software from the ground up on every custom map he does as he himself has even pointed this out in several posts on here. He has developed a solid base map(developed on ANOTHER car) which he will upload and then customize from there. This is no different really to a REVO maps being applied to the car and the likes of JKM, PDT etc then adjusting the settings and logs to suit the car and mods.
--- End quote ---
Wow this thread took off :jumping:
The difference between Revo & R-Tech is that with Revo you adjust 3 parameters across the whole rev range nick can fine tune each individual aspect of the map at any given point. For example, if there is a flat spot at 5200rpm (say a fuel cut type thing) nick can alter that specific rev band to correct. With Revo you would have to alter whatever factor (of the 3 you can adjust)that is causing the problem over the whole rev range, which means there is always a compromise. You can't adjust how or where in the rev range the turbo spools etc either. I could go on . . .
Your absolutely right, it's a base map fine tuned to the specific hardware of your car and how you want to drive it. No compromises.
You could take a graph of a Revo car to Nick and ask him to recreate that on your car if you so wanted. . . :grin:
I'm not trying to spam the thread or sell a product here. I just don't get the impression that people "get" what R-Tech are about
At the end of the day, you get the same(ish) peak figure from either Revo, APR, R-Tech, PDT etc. How much you want to pay for that increase is up to the individual :smiley:
I get what you mean about Revo mapping thousands of cars etc but in reality they have "tuned" one car and their dealer network has uploaded that map onto thousands of cars. Not the same as fine tuning lots of cars in front of you, each with individual running issues etc. Nick is always learning new techniques and ways to get more out of VAG engines (TIV mapping for example) so you could say his R&D never stops. . .
Just to be clear I'm not against any of the big brands at all (will be going somewhere different for the Scirocco - wouldn't rule out Revo :wink:)
I just like the FACTS to be right on here, that's all. Not selling anything or criticising anyone's products :drinking:
@Hedge - took you long enough to bite :P
vRS Carl:
I think someone is telling porkies here. I do not believe for one minute that R-Tech map EVERY single car differently. :chicken:
They will do EXACTLY what Revo do. I.E take the car, apply map, drive the car and alter the boost timing and fuelling to suit the car so it's running safe.
I seriously doubt Nick/R-Tech has the time to do what you are saying. Maybe on a select few cars they have sat on a Dyno and done what you say. But I think it would be a handful at most.
What you are saying they are doing would take a couple of days worth of mapping, data logging and fine tuning. From what I gather from people's posts they get the car back after a couple of hours at most. Hardly a "Custom" map. I've still yet to have someone convince me that a car can be set up on the rolling road better than the actual road. If that was the case then no Motorsport team or car manufacturer would do on road testing or drive the ring etc. it would all be done on a Dyno.
Each to there own and all that but I think some common sense needs to be applied.
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