All Things Mk5 > Mk5 General Area
APR's MK6 GTi The first to be tuned in North America
Keith@APR:
--- Quote from: jonnyc on August 12, 2009, 06:31:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: danishmkvgti on August 12, 2009, 06:22:51 pm ---Good news, the tsi has improved fuelling system, no need for upgraded HPFP and bigger injectors for this power level.
i might need to find me a tsi soon :driver: :jumping:
--- End quote ---
TSI runs 150 bar standard, the APR and Autotech etc fuel pump options for the FSI only run at 130bar.. And as far as I know the stock TSI injectors can run to 450hp..
Wander if there is a difference between the stock TSI injectors and the K04 TSI injectors as fitted to the Scirocco R etc? They could well be the upgrade injector of choice for FSI engines in the future rather than the RS4's..
--- End quote ---
From what I understand, VAG will continue the use of the current ED30/S3 FSI ko4 engine in the Scirocco R and R20. TSI injectors can't be made to work in a FSI without some serious effort. Fitment into the head is different as well as the wiring harness and injector body style.
jonnyc:
--- Quote from: Keith@APR on August 14, 2009, 02:41:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: jonnyc on August 12, 2009, 06:31:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: danishmkvgti on August 12, 2009, 06:22:51 pm ---Good news, the tsi has improved fuelling system, no need for upgraded HPFP and bigger injectors for this power level.
i might need to find me a tsi soon :driver: :jumping:
--- End quote ---
TSI runs 150 bar standard, the APR and Autotech etc fuel pump options for the FSI only run at 130bar.. And as far as I know the stock TSI injectors can run to 450hp..
Wander if there is a difference between the stock TSI injectors and the K04 TSI injectors as fitted to the Scirocco R etc? They could well be the upgrade injector of choice for FSI engines in the future rather than the RS4's..
--- End quote ---
From what I understand, VAG will continue the use of the current ED30/S3 FSI ko4 engine in the Scirocco R and R20. TSI injectors can't be made to work in a FSI without some serious effort. Fitment into the head is different as well as the wiring harness and injector body style.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the info Kieth.. So is the TSI with stage 3 a much stronger package than the FSI engine with the same turbo kit?
How far do you think that the stock TSI fuel system would be able to be pushed? 400WHP??
Keith@APR:
--- Quote from: jonnyc on August 14, 2009, 11:43:09 am ---
--- Quote from: Awesomemark on August 14, 2009, 11:12:48 am ---My Mk5 DSG stage 3 delivered the power in a completely different way it seemed to feel that it had more kick but i think thats because the DSG drops it a few gears and throws you back, whilst driving this MK6 i was comparing the speed gains... this car was verocious in how quick it got to 150mph, I do believe the Mk6 is even quicker.
APR have also built APR Stage III - Supercopa Killer - GTI Racecar build watch the video ... watch the mph needle and how quick this baby gets there even more so check the 50 to 100mph
http://www.goapr.com/media/videos/D69781F1EAEF5601/CCB08BC3EF40D884/
--- End quote ---
APR say thats a $38,000 engine apparently?? Would love to know where they come up with there pricing structure!? Thats a similiar price to some full spec GT2 engines..
And, 430whp from a little over 20psi on a GT2871R.. Hmm... :confused:
--- End quote ---
There is a drastically different approach when building an engine for endurance racing that will last an entire season at those power levels. Yes, its expensive, not $38k, but more than most are willing to spend. Our GTI race cars are no where near the Supercopa Killer power levels but are over $20k to build. Endurance Racing is just a different animal than a street car and lot's more internal parts are upgraded than you would apply to a streetcar application.
Headwork alone is $5k just for the cnc work.
This engine spools up 600 rpm's sooner than our standard FSI Stage 3, uses the same turbo and makes 430whp! Not bhp.
Yes, with lower compression, headwork, cams, more fuel and different calibration, its very, very possible and we have done so quite nicely. Its not always about turbo size. Going to a bigger turbo to get more power is an easy way of doing it but moves the power band to a late performer and is acceptable for drag racing but a road course client would never, ever enjoy the late power hit of a turbo bigger than a 28 frame on the 2.0T FSI. Efficiency is the key. We made the right internal engine mods to increase the efficiency of how the engine the makes power with the same turbo. Boost is up 4 psi over our production FSI Stage 3.
Keith@APR:
--- Quote from: jonnyc on August 14, 2009, 12:29:17 pm ---
--- Quote from: Hurdy on August 14, 2009, 12:15:22 pm ---I'd be ecstatic if mine made 430bhp at 20psi :laugh:
--- End quote ---
You would also be jesus..
--- End quote ---
To be fair its 430whp at 24 psi. Does that make us Gods or are we still just the messiah?
Keith@APR:
--- Quote from: jonnyc on August 14, 2009, 02:45:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: Keith@APR on August 14, 2009, 02:41:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: jonnyc on August 12, 2009, 06:31:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: danishmkvgti on August 12, 2009, 06:22:51 pm ---Good news, the tsi has improved fuelling system, no need for upgraded HPFP and bigger injectors for this power level.
i might need to find me a tsi soon :driver: :jumping:
--- End quote ---
TSI runs 150 bar standard, the APR and Autotech etc fuel pump options for the FSI only run at 130bar.. And as far as I know the stock TSI injectors can run to 450hp..
Wander if there is a difference between the stock TSI injectors and the K04 TSI injectors as fitted to the Scirocco R etc? They could well be the upgrade injector of choice for FSI engines in the future rather than the RS4's..
--- End quote ---
From what I understand, VAG will continue the use of the current ED30/S3 FSI ko4 engine in the Scirocco R and R20. TSI injectors can't be made to work in a FSI without some serious effort. Fitment into the head is different as well as the wiring harness and injector body style.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the info Kieth.. So is the TSI with stage 3 a much stronger package than the FSI engine with the same turbo kit?
How far do you think that the stock TSI fuel system would be able to be pushed? 400WHP??
--- End quote ---
This kit uses a different turbo than our FSI kit. The turbo selected for this kit provides 30 more lb ft of torque, 10 less hp but spools up 300 rpm's sooner.
Currently we are calling the TSI fueling capable of 380bhp at safe afr on pump gas but haven't completed our testing yet.
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