All Things Mk5 > Performance Modifications

Intercooler thoughts

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duncatr:
road logging is where I would take my data.
I dont drive the car on the dyno - I drive it on the road.
A dyno will never simulate the airflow going through the front of the car past the intercooler.
2 fans and an open bonnet is not real life.

I'm not saying that a Peron wouldn't be better than the oe but like you I always have to justify my costs before spending out on an upgrade.
So if its not adding any safety to the engine and no signals that there would be significant gains then I probably wont bother. Not while there are other areas of the car I could spend the cash to see significant improvements - brakes and suspension for a start :)

xjay1337:
I fitted a THS/Darkside Intercooler to mine.
Inlet temp recovery rate increased dramatically. Cruising temps 4-5 degree below previous, even lower than ambient at times
Proven gain in holding power at high RPMs on the same dyno in the same car. (peak power exactly the same).

It's more than just temperature, it's pressure drop across the core. Lot of people don't necessarily realise that.
for most people then a THS/Ebay intercooler is more than enough. If you are running 400+bhp and massive turbos then you need to worry about pressure drop etc and a peron would be a good choice here.

duncatr:
Yes I'm aware that there is more to it. Recovery rates are more for track and quarter mile in my opinion and rr data is not 100% valid as you dont see the real airflow through the intercooler as you will on the road. Even the airflow is not representational as you normally have 1 or 2 fans and an open bonnet on the RR.

On the road this is not the case. Like I say, road data is where its at for me. Even when mapping big power cars on the RR its best to final check and log on the road as thats where the car is run.

Size is not everything either, far from it in fact. Its the overall design. Bar & plate v tube and fin. end tand design and material. pressure drop through and accross the intercooler. Inlet and outlet position and size. Location and flow through for the cooling air. Even the piping to and from it. Lots and lots to look at, all depends how far you want to go. For a road car under 400BHP I've yet to be convinced that the oe S3 cant cope. Again, not saying there are not benefits to be had, just that I cant justify the expense for these. And thats from someone that spend over £20k modifying an Impreza LOL. Perhaps I'm just getting old and sensible :(

I'm no expert, thats just my opinion based on previous experience (Mostly in the subaru world) and what I have seen to date.

Madone:

--- Quote from: xjay1337 on May 01, 2015, 02:29:11 pm ---I fitted a THS/Darkside Intercooler to mine.
Inlet temp recovery rate increased dramatically. Cruising temps 4-5 degree below previous, even lower than ambient at times
Proven gain in holding power at high RPMs on the same dyno in the same car. (peak power exactly the same).

It's more than just temperature, it's pressure drop across the core. Lot of people don't necessarily realise that.
for most people then a THS/Ebay intercooler is more than enough. If you are running 400+bhp and massive turbos then you need to worry about pressure drop etc and a peron would be a good choice here.

--- End quote ---

For sure I agree that there is more too it than just temps, but temps are the thing that (in theory) will reduce power as the ecu knocks bag timing. I could as you say gain something from better flowing end tanks etc, but for the moment I am just thinking about not loosing power, rather than gaining more. Fitting a bigger IC will create a larger air chamber the compressed air needs to fill before it reaches the engine, so surely there are some downsides to just fitting the biggest you can ?, filling a bigger void with compressed air must produce more lag or reduced responsiveness ?, it might be small but it must be there ?.

The moment I see my temps rise to anywhere near 50 I would buy a new cooler, but so far, try as I might I can't get them up ! Haha. The increased air flow I get from driving faster pushes more air through, so seems to balance out and stay cool. I have no doubt in the rollers it would heat soak and be too hot to tune properly. But I wonder how many updates IC's would be fitted or even recommended if all tuning was done on the road and not in a workshop with two fans blowing warm recirculated air at the grill.   

As you say, if you are chasing 400+ then you need flow for peak numbers, but just looking at inlet temps on the road it seems to be another story

pudding:

--- Quote from: duncatr on May 01, 2015, 02:38:02 pm ---Yes I'm aware that there is more to it. Recovery rates are more for track and quarter mile in my opinion and rr data is not 100% valid as you dont see the real airflow through the intercooler as you will on the road. Even the airflow is not representational as you normally have 1 or 2 fans and an open bonnet on the RR.

On the road this is not the case. Like I say, road data is where its at for me. Even when mapping big power cars on the RR its best to final check and log on the road as thats where the car is run.

Size is not everything either, far from it in fact. Its the overall design. Bar & plate v tube and fin. end tand design and material. pressure drop through and accross the intercooler. Inlet and outlet position and size. Location and flow through for the cooling air. Even the piping to and from it. Lots and lots to look at, all depends how far you want to go. For a road car under 400BHP I've yet to be convinced that the oe S3 cant cope. Again, not saying there are not benefits to be had, just that I cant justify the expense for these. And thats from someone that spend over £20k modifying an Impreza LOL. Perhaps I'm just getting old and sensible :(

I'm no expert, thats just my opinion based on previous experience (Mostly in the subaru world) and what I have seen to date.

--- End quote ---

I'm of a similar opinion tbh.  The standard item is 'satisfactory' for most scenarios, given VW will have tested it Dubai, which can hit 50 deg C ambient!  But the standard item is designed to shift the heat of standard boost.  Whacking the boost up generates a lot more heat and sometimes the standard item can heat soak too quickly.

Aftermarket ones aren't always great either though.  I've seen some comedy IATs during dyno tests over the years, the worst being a MK4 Golf 1.8T with an 'uprated' side mount with ally end tanks and a 30% bigger core.   Said MK4 had the boost turned up to the max and IATs on that hit 70 (yes 70!) deg C by the top of the 3rd gear on the first run!  Completely useless.

What I don't really like about the standard setup is the a/c condenser being in front of the IC, but I suppose they had to put it there for packaging reasons, and to make the MK5's poor A/C performance as good as it can possibly be, but I also agree the S3 part is plenty good enough for the K04 turbo.  I just can't justify £350 + all the faff of fitting it for a core that's only a little bigger than standard.  I'm confident I wouldn't see night / day differences in IATs after all that!

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