MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: pudding on July 10, 2020, 05:09:45 pm
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My ED30’s manual box is making a nasty rattling noise when hot. I think it’s on it’s on it’s way out. Rather than replace like for like, does anyone know if MK6 gearboxes fit a MK5 engine?
I believe the 6 box got steel shift forks as standard, plus a few other improvements, hence considering it as an upgrade.
Ta!
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Answering my own question, yes they fit :smiley:
Looks like the KZS code from the 147KW Scirocco / MK6 2.0 TSI / A3 / Leon / EOS is a good suspect and plentiful on Ebay.
Just trying to figure out the gear ratios as the final drives are taller than those in my ED30 gearbox, JQN code.
If anyone knows of any gear ratio charts......I'm all ears :smiley:
My gearbox has 2-3mm shaft play which is causing massive gear lash and bearing noise. This is what happens when you subject the box to years of stiff clutches and remaps :doh: It sounds like there's a road drill inside the casing, and also a bell ringing brigade.
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Try www,reddit.com
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Thanks mate.
I gave AKS Tuning a call and they said any petrol turbo gearbox will fit and feel the same to drive. Just avoid diesel gearboxes as they're too tall!
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Surely add LSD at the same time?
I've got the KZS ratios, but cant see JQN - is that an 02S type box?
Type - 02Q
Code - KZS
6 speed
Scirocco 2010
Final drive ratio: 3.944
1st - 3.357
2nd - 2.087
3rd - 1.469
4th - 1.098
5th - 1.108
6th - 0.927
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Would love to fit a Wavetrac mate but can't afford it :ashamed: I think they're about £1200ish now :surprised:
Thanks mate.
JQN is an O2Q box mate, one of 3 or 4 different flavours fitted to the ED30 and Pirelli. I can only find the final drive ratios for the JQN, but not the gear stack.
K03 cars got a different box code for some reason but the ratios are the same. I think the difference is minor internal changes such as the end float shim and different final drive ratios, but the overall gearing is the same.
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Later boxes KDU & KPA are the same ratios as the JQN and will be a direct replacement.
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Same type as the planned new one - I can give you JLT & LMA, but JQN is missing from my list.
Yes - that is the problem with LSD, they are in the "capital investment" price range. I remember when Wavetrack first appeared, very attractive prices - unsure if its devalued £ but those prices have really jumped.
Can I suggest getting in contact with Mart at Gas'n Gears on face book, one man in a shed who does gearboxes - AKA Hotgolf - He sourced and fitted a Quaif for my other VW - He may be able to help with the price for a diff, and if you ask nicely may have the ratio's for JQN
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Thanks guys!
Yeah I remember HotGolf from my ClubGTI days!
I took a gamble on a low mileage KZS box from ebay, so will stick that in and see what it’s like. If the ratios are shorter, I’ll be happy with that. If they’re taller, I’ll live with it so long as the acceleration isn’t too blunted.
As a cheaper alternative to a wavetrac, I might look into the MK6 GTI abs pump swap as it has XDS TC, which works up to 60mph, compared to the MK5’s 30ish mph. This in theory should give the TC more time to slow the spinning wheel. Remapped MK5s just spin and spin as the control window is too small. That’s the theory anyway :grin:
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Yeah I remember HotGolf from my ClubGTI days!
Yes - that's where I found him too, I've still got an ABF lightened flywheel he did for me - such a shame that place ended up completely toxic.
Hope the new box works out, ABS upgrade would be messy, but worth it.
I understand with mine being DSG it can be re-mapped to reduce slip.
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Oh really? Seems to be the way with a lot car forums and Facebook groups these days. I haven't used it for years as it's mostly MK2s and track day stuff. This site is pleasantly free of bitchiness :drinking:
It was bloody years ago but pretty sure HotGolf supplied me with a 3.68 final drive for my old Corrado VR6. That really woke the car up. Should have been factory fit!
Cheers. On first inspection, the input shaft's lateral play is virtually zero compared to mine, which is encouraging. I can see externally where VW have changed a few things. It's a 2011 box. It's mainly under the black end shaft cover that's had some re-engineering under there.....hopefully for the better!
Hoping it's not too messy as the pump and ECU are integrated into one unit, but if the plumbing and harness are completely different, you're right, that is too messy and not worth the hassle.
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Hotgolf lightened a flywheel for my mk2, made it rev so quick. Nice bloke as well.
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I can confirm the MK6/Scirocco ‘KZS’ box works well in a GTI :happy2:
Even better with Redline MTL gear oil :smiley:
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Nothing to add other than to say cheers for the info re gearboxes. Pretty sure mine is getting ready to be replaced but purely through 175k of use :D
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No worries. In the end the rattling was nothing to do with the gearbox :doh:
After some stethoscoping, the likely suspect is the oil pump chain/tensioner.....and that isn't a pleasant job.
Anyway, the later gearboxes are a huge improvement so it wasn't a total loss :smiley: The lower 3 gears must be a bit shorter as the car has never felt so responsive off boost, I love it! Same 80ish @ 3000rpm in 6th though, so no change in the upper gears :happy2:
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Hi mate - is it a straight swap? My box has a bit of lateral play in the input shaft again (after shimming it and fixing it for a year/6,000 miles) and the clutch pedal’s getting stuck again. Might consider a mk6 box if it’s an easy swap?
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Yeah it is mate :happy2:
I would swap over the metal gearshift relay over from your box to the new box as that part switched to crappy plastic from 2008 onwards. Other than that, straight swap.
It’s solved all my clutch and gearshift issues. There wasn’t a huge amount of play in my input shaft, much less than I expected, but it was enough to cause major problems when hot. The new box makes the car feel new! Hard to believe a slicker gearshift can have that affect but it’s so much nicer to drive now.....especially dropping down through the gears approaching roundabouts. Way smoother and slicker :happy2: Dropping from 4th or 3rd to second used to be a real chore.
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Nice one. Thank you. So KZS box if I can find one.
I’ve got some thinner shims which I need to dremmel down to the correct circumference to see if I can pack out the slack in the input shaft on my box - I fitted one 0.65mm shim and this cured the issues I’d had, but as mentioned they’ve now returned. Can’t quite get another 0.65mm shim in place, so will see what I can do with the 0.1 shims I’ve picked up. Otherwise replacement box is cheaper than a repair!
Thanks for this.
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Yep. There were loads on ebay when I looked. As an idea of cost, I paid £350 for a 31K mile old one. Not horrendous money but please do seek a second opinion before spending that kind of money off the back of a forum post :wink:
It’s worth a go! I put a 0.12mm shim in the KZS box to remove all play completely, just for good measure! The only play in the shaft is from the bearing itself. It did the trick. The pedal and shift are both night/day better for me! Hopefully you’ll see the same improvements!
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Thanks for this (and the reply to my other post) - much appreciated. Will attempt another shim - it does need brake fluid - quite urgently - so will bleed the brakes and clutch (noting the pick up for the clutch line is at the top of the fluid tank) - but it feels more of a mechanical issue than hydraulics.
Incidentally - where did you get the shims from? I’ve had to buy oversized ones for a ford gearbox and Will dremel them against a template to get the inner bore/diameter big enough (the shims I found were 80mm outer diameter, so 2mm bigger, but should fit ok, and 63mm internal diameter....). Have also read not to go too nuts with removing the play - as can lead to premature bearing wear (although hardly a major concern based on the current problem!) and can even jam the shaft...
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Erm, we used one the standard VW 0.65mm shims and shaved it down :grin:
Your method is probably less of a faff! 0.12mm is what it had to be shaved down to to get it to fit. Yeah I’ve read the same about the input shaft but even with all of the shim slack removed, there is still play! I don’t track my car or thrash it, so I doubt mine will see the kind of stress & heat to seize the shaft. That bearing is barely even a press fit as I understand it. When things get really bad and the gear shafts start forcing each other apart, the outer race starts ovalising the casing.....which means a new gearbox anyway. This mainly only happens on aggressively remapped and/or track raced cars.
It wasn’t strictly necessary to do that to my new box but my OCD wasn’t thrilled by the play in the new box, even though it was signed off as ‘in spec’. I just know how sensitive the pedal & bite point are with shaft play, so did it anyway! My mechanic (who is a gearbox guru) said it would be fine, but on your own gearbox, obviously only do what you’re comfortable doing :happy2:
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Thanks - I don’t have a surface grinder - and can’t really measure the thickness required - so easier to (trial and error) fit set thicknesses (and easier to diy dremmel the internal diameter of the shims, which doesn’t need to be very precise than to diy the thickness of the shim!).
Thanks again. All very helpful.