MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: Shoduchi on March 24, 2017, 12:19:20 am
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I've sourced a pair of aluminium wishbones. Thinking of why the S3 has a different part number for the ball joints and if should I source the S3/Passat ball joints or use my stock parts. :thinking:
Anyone know the reason for a different part being used with that wishbone? The only difference I can see is the grooved area around the bolts. I has a bit more height in the Golf ball joint compared with the S3/Passat ball joint.
Golf ball joint:
(https://c1552172.ssl.cf0.rackcdn.com/129914_x800.jpg)
S3/Passat ball joint:
(https://c1552172.ssl.cf0.rackcdn.com/288040_x800.jpg)
I could only find topics talking about the TT/TT-S wishbones and adjustable ball joints. :confused:
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I think I found the major difference between them. I should have looked a bit longer and better... :ashamed:
The nut of the Golf ball joint is half the height of the S3/Passat ball joint nut. The increased height gives more clearance under the CV joint.
Golf ball joint:
(https://c1552172.ssl.cf0.rackcdn.com/129915_x800.jpg)
S3/Passat ball joint:
(https://c1552172.ssl.cf0.rackcdn.com/288039_x800.jpg)
I know the Golf ball joints fit, not sure if knowing that it's not the perfect combination of parts will prevent me from getting the S3/Passat ball joints when fitting the alloy wishbones... :laugh:
What do you think? :thinking:
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@OEM+ DUB (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=776) on here uses Golf ball joints on Passat alloy wishbones without an issue :happy2: As he told me, you just need to make sure you use the Passat/S3 shouldered nuts.
The difference between S3/Passat and the Golf BJ looks to be roll centre correction? The tapered pin is longer on the S3 ball joint, because I assume it's ride height is lower than the GTI's? This will correct bump steer.
You could, and probably should, use the S3 ball joints on a lowered Golf?
I've got the Passat wishbones and bearing housings also, and brand new Golf ball joints from VW ready to go. But I'm thinking the same as you now, should I switch to S3 BJs?
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What you said makes me want to fit S3 ball joints. I know the difference won't be huge but everything I can do to make my setup better, I'll do it. Unfortunately I can't fit alloy hubs and SuperPro ball joints with my calipers, so I'm a bit limited in that aspect. The good side of of my brakes is they fit behind my wheels without spacers or needing wider front wings to fit lower ET wheels. It's always a compromise due to costs and legal aspect of car modding (wheels spacers are illegal here).
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That's a pain! What do S3 people do for big brakes?
If you get some S3/Passat ball joints, could be so kind as to pass on the part number so I can get some too? :-)
I was going to get some VWR ball joints to balance the lowering of my VWR kit, but I didn't know OE S3 ones were roll centre correcting too. They're probably half the price as well!!
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@Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) I'll share the part numbers later. The OEM S3/Passat BJ cost about half the price of the SuperPro BJ, which is the same (or very similar) part used by VWR.
The S3 owners that want to fit Brembo 17Z or 18Z to their cars need to fit steel hubs. This calipers are fixed on the inner side of the hub, so the aluminium hub being thicker will make the calipers become too inside the wheel and the brake disc won't be centred. Other BBK are fixed with an adaptor that is fixed like the OEM calipers, so it won't be incompatible with the aluminium hub.
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S3/Passat ball joints:
-Left: 3C0407365B
-Right: 3C0407366B
Nuts: 6x N10332002
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Thanks for the numbers mate :happy2:
Lol, so GTI people want S3 alloy hubs and S3 people want GTI iron hubs :grin:
Not a problem for me as I am sticking with the OEM brakes, or maybe the MK7 caliper + TTS discs.
For those adding passat/S3 hubs too, you also need 4 x shouldered nut WHT 000 785. 2 for the track rod ends and 2 for the ball joints.
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Thanks for the numbers mate :happy2:
Lol, so GTI people want S3 alloy hubs and S3 people want GTI iron hubs :grin:
Not a problem for me as I am sticking with the OEM brakes, or maybe the MK7 caliper + TTS discs.
For those adding passat/S3 hubs too, you also need 4 x shouldered nut WHT 000 785. 2 for the track rod ends and 2 for the ball joints.
I'd go for the mk7 GTI PP/R/S3/Cupra/Ed. 40 calipers with TTS discs. I recommended those to a friend who sourced a reasonably priced set from Germany. Plenty of models have them so they're easily available and much better than the OEM brakes. :smiley:
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Picked up the Passat ball joints from VW today and just to confirm, the taper pin is 5mm longer than the GTI ball joint. GTI on the left, Passat on the right.
This will put the wishbone back to the correct angle on moderately lowered GTIs :happy2:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fx2%2Fkevhaywire%2FIMG_5391_zpsskzbdkzl.jpg&hash=20b4dab3572fc5850f7dd1c3b10d08f6b7936513)
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great kitchen!!
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I've fitted the Passat wishbones and ball joints. The nuts that fix the ball joint to the wishbone are the same to GTI nuts. I bought new ones since they're one use only (ideally).
The suspension now feels a bit more supple and less harsh over road creases and small bumps. Liked the result! :smiley:
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great kitchen!!
Cheers :smiley:
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I've fitted the Passat wishbones and ball joints. The nuts that fix the ball joint to the wishbone are the same to GTI nuts. I bought new ones since they're one use only (ideally).
The suspension now feels a bit more supple and less harsh over road creases and small bumps. Liked the result! :smiley:
You don't hang around! Nice one. Glad it worked out well :happy2:
I can't believe how much the VWR ball joints are. The same thing as OE (but probably not as good quality), just with elongated holes for camber. The Passat ones could be modified to do the same very easily, and MUCH cheaper!
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You don't hang around! Nice one. Glad it worked out well :happy2:
I can't believe how much the VWR ball joints are. The same thing as OE (but probably not as good quality), just with elongated holes for camber. The Passat ones could be modified to do the same very easily, and MUCH cheaper!
The VWR ball joints are made by SuperPro. I bought the SuperPro version and they're stronger than the OEM ball joints. Unfortunately for me, they're too big so they rub my brake discs. My mechanic tried to grind them a bit to see if that would sort the issue but with no luck. :sad1:
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Stronger as in bigger housing?
10 years ago I had to grind the ball joints on my Corrado to stop the AP racing discs rubbing on them when turning corners. So it seems nothing changes :grin:
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Stronger as in bigger housing?
10 years ago I had to grind the ball joints on my Corrado to stop the AP racing discs rubbing on them when turning corners. So it seems nothing changes :grin:
Yes, bigger housing. I guess some things don't change. :laugh:
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@OEM+ DUB (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=776) on here uses Golf ball joints on Passat alloy wishbones without an issue :happy2: As he told me, you just need to make sure you use the Passat/S3 shouldered nuts.
The difference between S3/Passat and the Golf BJ looks to be roll centre correction? The tapered pin is longer on the S3 ball joint, because I assume it's ride height is lower than the GTI's? This will correct bump steer.
You could, and probably should, use the S3 ball joints on a lowered Golf?
I've got the Passat wishbones and bearing housings also, and brand new Golf ball joints from VW ready to go. But I'm thinking the same as you now, should I switch to S3 BJs?
Apologies for the thread resurrection but its relevant ...
I fitted S3 alloy knuckles/hubs and wishbones to a 2010 Tiguan and used genuine VW TIGUAN ball joints ... properly aligned and 18 months and under 10,000 miles later they are both 'split' and leaking grease!
I have an alternate theory about the benefits (necessity?) of keeping to an S3 balljoint on the alloy hubs - using the shorter golf/tiguan item lets the knuckle/hub push down on the rubber boot too much and squashes it?
I don't have bare hubs available to measure but I would imagine that the alloy units may well be thicker than the steel units at this point. In other areas they are thicker than the steel ones to get the strength. I'll be stripping the joints off the old steel knuckle at some point so will be able to do some vernier caliper measurements of the parts then.
Just to throw a spanner in to this all, the alloy wishbone / balljoint combo I received was marked up as for a Q3/Tiguan but had the S3 balljoints on so I took these off and saved them. Does the Q3 (R/SQ3?) have alloy wishbones and knuckles as stock?
Any thought on this?
I think I will be pulling the driveshafts out next spring and, unless an assessment shows anything else to consider, will be putting S3 balljoints on my stock height Tiguan next spring and get it re-tracked to suit ...
I'm at a loss as to why this has happened besides its not actually a compatible part - any thoughts / suggestions welcome ;-)
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@OEM+ DUB (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=776) on here uses Golf ball joints on Passat alloy wishbones without an issue :happy2: As he told me, you just need to make sure you use the Passat/S3 shouldered nuts.
The difference between S3/Passat and the Golf BJ looks to be roll centre correction? The tapered pin is longer on the S3 ball joint, because I assume it's ride height is lower than the GTI's? This will correct bump steer.
You could, and probably should, use the S3 ball joints on a lowered Golf?
I've got the Passat wishbones and bearing housings also, and brand new Golf ball joints from VW ready to go. But I'm thinking the same as you now, should I switch to S3 BJs?
Apologies for the thread resurrection but its relevant ...
I fitted S3 alloy knuckles/hubs and wishbones to a 2010 Tiguan and used genuine VW TIGUAN ball joints ... properly aligned and 18 months and under 10,000 miles later they are both 'split' and leaking grease!
I have an alternate theory about the benefits (necessity?) of keeping to an S3 balljoint on the alloy hubs - using the shorter golf/tiguan item lets the knuckle/hub push down on the rubber boot too much and squashes it?
I don't have bare hubs available to measure but I would imagine that the alloy units may well be thicker than the steel units at this point. In other areas they are thicker than the steel ones to get the strength. I'll be stripping the joints off the old steel knuckle at some point so will be able to do some vernier caliper measurements of the parts then.
Just to throw a spanner in to this all, the alloy wishbone / balljoint combo I received was marked up as for a Q3/Tiguan but had the S3 balljoints on so I took these off and saved them. Does the Q3 (R/SQ3?) have alloy wishbones and knuckles as stock?
Any thought on this?
I think I will be pulling the driveshafts out next spring and, unless an assessment shows anything else to consider, will be putting S3 balljoints on my stock height Tiguan next spring and get it re-tracked to suit ...
I'm at a loss as to why this has happened besides its not actually a compatible part - any thoughts / suggestions welcome ;-)
I think I measured only a 5mm difference in pin length between S3/Passat ball joints and GTI. As you say, that could be enough to stop that problem, which hadn't occurred to me at the time. Good shout :happy2: