Post by: Wadgti on April 26, 2019, 10:05:17 pm
Getting the car ready for a remap in a few weeks and the following codes seem to be coming back. Tried the adaption aswell so no joy. When I clear the codes and the take the car out for a run its seems to have a bit more power which is annoying. Its looks my ECU has latest software for the flap control 0070 too. Can anyone help and point out what part no's I need here. The car is a 2005 axx. I take replace the flap motor should clear both codes.
Hoping someone has had this problem before and sorted it and could advise.
Many thanks
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 115 HW: 1K0 907 115
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 00 0070
Software Coding: 0403000318070060
Work Shop Code: WSC 00485 210 83213
VCID: E3C359D722D7EA06691-80B6
4 Faults Found:
012600 - Intake Manifold Runner Control
P3138 - 008 - Regulation Deviation
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 155549 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 17:50:57
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1090 /min
Load: 16.9 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 27.0°C
Temperature: 8.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.605 V
008200 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 1
P2008 - 001 - Electrical Malfunction
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 5
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 155549 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 17:50:57
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 961 /min
Load: 20.8 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 56.0°C
Temperature: 48.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V
Post by: pudding on April 27, 2019, 01:04:22 am
Post by: DBXdarkangel on April 27, 2019, 01:09:44 pm
Post by: pudding on April 29, 2019, 12:45:43 pm
Post by: Wadgti on April 29, 2019, 12:56:03 pm
So even though the motors are moving this is a dying motor which needs to be replaced? Reason I ask that I found one on the ebay that looks in good nick (compared to alot of others) for £20.00. I called VW this morning and they want £260 including the vat for the motor...shocking but not suprising.
Thanks
Post by: Wadgti on April 29, 2019, 01:54:31 pm
Thanks
Post by: pudding on April 29, 2019, 02:45:55 pm
Post by: DBXdarkangel on April 30, 2019, 09:48:25 am
It's on the engine module page iirc. You just open it and choose from the drop-down list of available tests. One of them is the intake flap.
Just run the teat and the arm moved backwards and forwards during the test. How far is it supposed to move in the test? Mine moved about 1cm constantly.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Post by: Wadgti on May 03, 2019, 02:34:24 pm
However the motor I have ordered is 06F 133 482E and after some reading today It appears this might not work with a 2005 AXX. Before I try and swap it out can anyone confirm that the E will not work with AXX incase they have tried as don't want to have to change it twice.
Many thanks
Liam
Post by: muff1991 on May 03, 2019, 02:57:34 pm
Got a better look of the car last night but my vcds cable melted a few nights ago by mistake, so had to order a newone. I was able to manually move the motor arm which at least tells me the flaps should be good.
However the motor I have ordered is 06F 133 482E and after some reading today It appears this might not work with a 2005 AXX. Before I try and swap it out can anyone confirm that the E will not work with AXX incase they have tried as don't want to have to change it twice.
Many thanks
Liam
Hi Liam,
funny I've seen a couple of posts on the inlet flaps.. I believe I also may have a problem with either my motor, the flaps (faulty / carbon) or wiring! but no EML or fault codes! long story but I am slowly getting round to diagnosing my issue.
but in answer to your question, from what I've read online when reading into this part.. if your motor has a letter on the end then you can replace with the latest revision which is "E"
if your inlet flap motor has NO prefix letter on the end then you MUST replace with a NO PREFIX part!
so to put it simple: if the part number is "06F 133 482" then you must replace with "06F 133 482"
if the motors part number is: "06F 133 482 B" then you can happily go ahead with the latest revision "E"
hope this helps :)
Post by: Wadgti on May 03, 2019, 03:03:29 pm
Got a better look of the car last night but my vcds cable melted a few nights ago by mistake, so had to order a newone. I was able to manually move the motor arm which at least tells me the flaps should be good.
However the motor I have ordered is 06F 133 482E and after some reading today It appears this might not work with a 2005 AXX. Before I try and swap it out can anyone confirm that the E will not work with AXX incase they have tried as don't want to have to change it twice.
Many thanks
Liam
Hi Liam,
funny I've seen a couple of posts on the inlet flaps.. I believe I also may have a problem with either my motor, the flaps (faulty / carbon) or wiring! but no EML or fault codes! long story but I am slowly getting round to diagnosing my issue.
but in answer to your question, from what I've read online when reading into this part.. if your motor has a letter on the end then you can replace with the latest revision which is "E"
if your inlet flap motor has NO prefix letter on the end then you MUST replace with a NO PREFIX part!
so to put it simple: if the part number is "06F 133 482" then you must replace with "06F 133 482"
if the motors part number is: "06F 133 482 B" then you can happily go ahead with the latest revision "E"
hope this helps :)
Thanks mate.
I am going to check later on what is stamped onto it but i feel it will be 06F 133 482.
IF you need one with an E, i got one delivered to day that looks in really good condition - no idea if it works tho - if you need it.
Post by: muff1991 on May 03, 2019, 04:06:15 pm
Oh ok cool, nice one Liam, I’ll give you a shout should I need that. Top man!Got a better look of the car last night but my vcds cable melted a few nights ago by mistake, so had to order a newone. I was able to manually move the motor arm which at least tells me the flaps should be good.
However the motor I have ordered is 06F 133 482E and after some reading today It appears this might not work with a 2005 AXX. Before I try and swap it out can anyone confirm that the E will not work with AXX incase they have tried as don't want to have to change it twice.
Many thanks
Liam
Hi Liam,
funny I've seen a couple of posts on the inlet flaps.. I believe I also may have a problem with either my motor, the flaps (faulty / carbon) or wiring! but no EML or fault codes! long story but I am slowly getting round to diagnosing my issue.
but in answer to your question, from what I've read online when reading into this part.. if your motor has a letter on the end then you can replace with the latest revision which is "E"
if your inlet flap motor has NO prefix letter on the end then you MUST replace with a NO PREFIX part!
so to put it simple: if the part number is "06F 133 482" then you must replace with "06F 133 482"
if the motors part number is: "06F 133 482 B" then you can happily go ahead with the latest revision "E"
hope this helps :)
Thanks mate.
I am going to check later on what is stamped onto it but i feel it will be 06F 133 482.
IF you need one with an E, i got one delivered to day that looks in really good condition - no idea if it works tho - if you need it.
Let us know how you get on with diagnosing your issue. I have seen online that people have replaced the motor and it hasn’t solved the problem and it’s been down to carbon build up. So you might (like me) need to be prepared to remove manifold and give everything a thorough clean.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Rob1 on May 05, 2019, 05:35:12 pm
Thanks
2 Faults Found:
012599 - Intake Manifold Runner Control
P3137 - 001 - Basic Setting not Completed - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 4
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 170954 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 63.0°C
Temperature: 48.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.938 V
001602 - Sensor Reference Voltage A: Circuit
P0642 - 002 - Low - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10100010
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 170954 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 63.0°C
Temperature: 48.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.938 V
Post by: muff1991 on May 05, 2019, 06:28:16 pm
Hi also have the same/similar problem although slight difference in the number P3137 instead of P3138Try doing the basic setting with VCDS and see how you get on.
Thanks
2 Faults Found:
012599 - Intake Manifold Runner Control
P3137 - 001 - Basic Setting not Completed - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 4
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 170954 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 63.0°C
Temperature: 48.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.938 V
001602 - Sensor Reference Voltage A: Circuit
P0642 - 002 - Low - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10100010
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 170954 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 63.0°C
Temperature: 48.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.938 V
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Rob1 on May 05, 2019, 06:52:03 pm
Post by: muff1991 on May 05, 2019, 07:21:24 pm
Cheers mate, I’ve reset it a few times but the problem still returns. If I’m honest I’m looking at selling the Edition 30 this year and moving into a MK7 ROh ok then, didn’t know you already had. Could possibly be wiring, motor or flaps then. The mk7 is a nice car but the edition 30 for age is special :-)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Wadgti on May 13, 2019, 09:13:01 am
So gave this an attempt on Saturday. Disconnected most of the sensor plugs and loosed the wiring loom from the brackets best I could on the right hand side of the motor. I could not see for the life of me how the the motor can come out other than removing the throttle body??
I seen some posts where folk have said it took an hour to replace, working from below I could only see 2 bolts through the loom and pipes - so much stuff around this motor.
Was hoping anyone can advise if it best to take the throttle body off to get it out properly.
https://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a3_mk2/power_unit/direct_petrol_injection_and_ignition_system_(4-cyl._2.0_ltr._4-valve_turbo)/mixture_preparation_system_electronic_inj.gas/injection_system/removing_and_installing_intake_manifold_flap_motor_v157_with_intake_manifold_flap_potentiometer_g336/
I looked at this guide but its not quite straight forward on the real thing lol.
P.s. I checked autodoc and they are selling the motor for £98 (possibly less with a discount). Anyone every bought from them...seems that they are based in VW land?
Thanks
Post by: muff1991 on May 13, 2019, 09:59:14 am
One cold morning when it was 0.5 degrees and engine stalled i decided to disconnected the Intake Air Temp sensor and bugger me the car instantly continued running and not an ounce of laggy/delayed throttle - and NO performance loss, it runs like a dream! It actually had more low down grunt.. full response and full power throughout the whole rev range! So replaced that and checked wiring.. didn't make a single bit of difference! Got hold of a wiring diagram and the same 5V wire going to the IAT also splices off to 5 other items/sensors. One of those is the Inlet Flap Motor! My theory is I cant help but thinking the issue must be a faulty inlet flap motor (inside these units is a Motor and Potentiometer - so either one of those) could be controlling the flaps incorrectly when cold if faulty and/or the flaps are damaged or carbon build up! Orrr i have an ECU Software/mapping issue and not all talking to each other correctly!
So i attempted to replace this motor.. and there is buggers all room in there! you WILL need a little "bit" ratchet as per that guide @Wadgti (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=37993) . i just ordered a sealey one from ebay for a tenner. but without one of those it will be virtually impossible! kind of defeats the object for me though as for piece of mind, I'm now going to remove the Inlet manifold to inspect flaps and carry out a DIY carbon clean on valves / flaps etc! so while its all off, it would make sense to change the motor too so probs wont need the ratchet. although it should be easy enough to change in situ with the new ratchet. so haven't decided to swap for certain until I've seen valve, flaps etc. we'll see.
Post by: Wadgti on May 13, 2019, 10:42:46 am
I was going to change mine yesterday, as i managed to get a spare motor to try. Reason being: (soz if you're all sick of hearing this by now - just cant figure it out) but: I have outside cold temperature cold start issues, 0 degrees - engine starts and stalls and throttle doesn't work or hardly works! Temps slightly warmer (say 5 degrees).. engine continues to run but the throttle pedal is very delayed but works enough to drive! Amongst that issue, the car will also cut the power drastically around 4000rpm. Anything above 10 degrees the car runs, no lag and no power cuts.
One cold morning when it was 0.5 degrees and engine stalled i decided to disconnected the Intake Air Temp sensor and bugger me the car instantly continued running and not an ounce of laggy/delayed throttle - and NO performance loss, it runs like a dream! It actually had more low down grunt.. full response and full power throughout the whole rev range! So replaced that and checked wiring.. didn't make a single bit of difference! Got hold of a wiring diagram and the same 5V wire going to the IAT also splices off to 5 other items/sensors. One of those is the Inlet Flap Motor! My theory is I cant help but thinking the issue must be a faulty inlet flap motor (inside these units is a Motor and Potentiometer - so either one of those) could be controlling the flaps incorrectly when cold if faulty and/or the flaps are damaged or carbon build up! Orrr i have an ECU Software/mapping issue and not all talking to each other correctly!
So i attempted to replace this motor.. and there is buggers all room in there! you WILL need a little "bit" ratchet as per that guide @Wadgti (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=37993) . i just ordered a sealey one from ebay for a tenner. but without one of those it will be virtually impossible! kind of defeats the object for me though as for piece of mind, I'm now going to remove the Inlet manifold to inspect flaps and carry out a DIY carbon clean on valves / flaps etc! so while its all off, it would make sense to change the motor too so probs wont need the ratchet. although it should be easy enough to change in situ with the new ratchet. so haven't decided to swap for certain until I've seen valve, flaps etc. we'll see.
I have noticed the low down/mid power loss. I came from a mk4 gti 180 and currently feels about the same power as that at the moment. As soon as I clear the code with the laptop and take it for a drive immediate the power is back then and after a minute the code is back with the loss of power.
I know people have said it is idle control and shouldn't affect the power band, but I have seen on other forums people mentioning that it does and I have to agree. I have a slight misfire when running at temp on idle which I hope will eliminate this as well.
Muff can you link to what ratchet you got please? I going to disconnect the air intake temp sensor this week to and see how it runs. I'm getting decent MPG on sensible driving this now too (43mpg on 20 mile motorway stretch sitting around 75 to 80 on the average counter).
I have done a fair bit of reading on the valve cleaning and other than chemical/handscraping or wall nut blasting are the only things that will make a difference. CRC valve cleaner is seemingly very good but its £40 for a can. I may start using it on every service every - haven't decided yet.
Post by: Wadgti on May 13, 2019, 11:03:55 am
https://workshop-manuals.com/volkswagen/golf-mk5/power_unit/4-cylinder_injection_engine_(2.0_l_engine_turbocharger)/mixture_preparation_system_electronic_inj.gas/injection_system/removing_and_installing_intake_manifold_flap_motorv157_and_intake_manifold_flap_potentiometerg336/
Post by: muff1991 on May 15, 2019, 03:24:38 pm
your symptoms do sound similar to mine.. but I'm still not sure exactly that mines the motor! if all your wiring looks ok, then I'd say yours is the motor.I was going to change mine yesterday, as i managed to get a spare motor to try. Reason being: (soz if you're all sick of hearing this by now - just cant figure it out) but: I have outside cold temperature cold start issues, 0 degrees - engine starts and stalls and throttle doesn't work or hardly works! Temps slightly warmer (say 5 degrees).. engine continues to run but the throttle pedal is very delayed but works enough to drive! Amongst that issue, the car will also cut the power drastically around 4000rpm. Anything above 10 degrees the car runs, no lag and no power cuts.
One cold morning when it was 0.5 degrees and engine stalled i decided to disconnected the Intake Air Temp sensor and bugger me the car instantly continued running and not an ounce of laggy/delayed throttle - and NO performance loss, it runs like a dream! It actually had more low down grunt.. full response and full power throughout the whole rev range! So replaced that and checked wiring.. didn't make a single bit of difference! Got hold of a wiring diagram and the same 5V wire going to the IAT also splices off to 5 other items/sensors. One of those is the Inlet Flap Motor! My theory is I cant help but thinking the issue must be a faulty inlet flap motor (inside these units is a Motor and Potentiometer - so either one of those) could be controlling the flaps incorrectly when cold if faulty and/or the flaps are damaged or carbon build up! Orrr i have an ECU Software/mapping issue and not all talking to each other correctly!
So i attempted to replace this motor.. and there is buggers all room in there! you WILL need a little "bit" ratchet as per that guide @Wadgti (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=37993) . i just ordered a sealey one from ebay for a tenner. but without one of those it will be virtually impossible! kind of defeats the object for me though as for piece of mind, I'm now going to remove the Inlet manifold to inspect flaps and carry out a DIY carbon clean on valves / flaps etc! so while its all off, it would make sense to change the motor too so probs wont need the ratchet. although it should be easy enough to change in situ with the new ratchet. so haven't decided to swap for certain until I've seen valve, flaps etc. we'll see.
I have noticed the low down/mid power loss. I came from a mk4 gti 180 and currently feels about the same power as that at the moment. As soon as I clear the code with the laptop and take it for a drive immediate the power is back then and after a minute the code is back with the loss of power.
I know people have said it is idle control and shouldn't affect the power band, but I have seen on other forums people mentioning that it does and I have to agree. I have a slight misfire when running at temp on idle which I hope will eliminate this as well.
Muff can you link to what ratchet you got please? I going to disconnect the air intake temp sensor this week to and see how it runs. I'm getting decent MPG on sensible driving this now too (43mpg on 20 mile motorway stretch sitting around 75 to 80 on the average counter).
I have done a fair bit of reading on the valve cleaning and other than chemical/handscraping or wall nut blasting are the only things that will make a difference. CRC valve cleaner is seemingly very good but its £40 for a can. I may start using it on every service every - haven't decided yet.
defo unplug your IAT and give the car a blast see if its any different. i have a feeling the 5V wire once disconnected might go back to the ECU and the ECU allows for all the other sensors and motor on that 5v to run on a "basic setting" (just like disconnecting the MAF sensor for those who know)
here's one i don't understand though! and to me, it seems wrong but I'm not sure if its right...
if you go into basic settings, punch in block 142 and youll see your flap motor bank 1 Actual and Specified.
when i first went into mine, it showed 0.000v actual and 1.440v specified. (engine off, ignition on)
completed an adaptation and it come up ADP OK which is cool, but then showed 3.720v Actual and 1.440v Specified!
done this to a mate, his first started at 0.000v and 1.760v done an Adaptation and got 2900v & 1760v
so mines like just over 2v diff and his is like 1v diff.. dunno if this would mean anything as he has an AXX and i have a BWA.
@Wadgti (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=37993) when you get 5 could you check yours out please and post up the figures.. anyone else please feel free to do so too :)
Post by: pudding on May 15, 2019, 04:41:12 pm
Post by: muff1991 on May 15, 2019, 07:15:23 pm
But the motor could still move even if faulty but flaps won’t be exactly where it should be. Although you’d probs get a code I guess. Which wadgti has got.
If you got a spare wad then change it, see what happens. If not do some more investigating before you punt money on a new one.
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Post by: muff1991 on May 15, 2019, 07:16:23 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190515/fe16fab7c9666bc315a19b678903548d.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Dan_FR on May 16, 2019, 07:34:08 am
Post by: Wadgti on May 16, 2019, 09:32:09 am
your symptoms do sound similar to mine.. but I'm still not sure exactly that mines the motor! if all your wiring looks ok, then I'd say yours is the motor.I was going to change mine yesterday, as i managed to get a spare motor to try. Reason being: (soz if you're all sick of hearing this by now - just cant figure it out) but: I have outside cold temperature cold start issues, 0 degrees - engine starts and stalls and throttle doesn't work or hardly works! Temps slightly warmer (say 5 degrees).. engine continues to run but the throttle pedal is very delayed but works enough to drive! Amongst that issue, the car will also cut the power drastically around 4000rpm. Anything above 10 degrees the car runs, no lag and no power cuts.
One cold morning when it was 0.5 degrees and engine stalled i decided to disconnected the Intake Air Temp sensor and bugger me the car instantly continued running and not an ounce of laggy/delayed throttle - and NO performance loss, it runs like a dream! It actually had more low down grunt.. full response and full power throughout the whole rev range! So replaced that and checked wiring.. didn't make a single bit of difference! Got hold of a wiring diagram and the same 5V wire going to the IAT also splices off to 5 other items/sensors. One of those is the Inlet Flap Motor! My theory is I cant help but thinking the issue must be a faulty inlet flap motor (inside these units is a Motor and Potentiometer - so either one of those) could be controlling the flaps incorrectly when cold if faulty and/or the flaps are damaged or carbon build up! Orrr i have an ECU Software/mapping issue and not all talking to each other correctly!
So i attempted to replace this motor.. and there is buggers all room in there! you WILL need a little "bit" ratchet as per that guide @Wadgti (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=37993) . i just ordered a sealey one from ebay for a tenner. but without one of those it will be virtually impossible! kind of defeats the object for me though as for piece of mind, I'm now going to remove the Inlet manifold to inspect flaps and carry out a DIY carbon clean on valves / flaps etc! so while its all off, it would make sense to change the motor too so probs wont need the ratchet. although it should be easy enough to change in situ with the new ratchet. so haven't decided to swap for certain until I've seen valve, flaps etc. we'll see.
I have noticed the low down/mid power loss. I came from a mk4 gti 180 and currently feels about the same power as that at the moment. As soon as I clear the code with the laptop and take it for a drive immediate the power is back then and after a minute the code is back with the loss of power.
I know people have said it is idle control and shouldn't affect the power band, but I have seen on other forums people mentioning that it does and I have to agree. I have a slight misfire when running at temp on idle which I hope will eliminate this as well.
Muff can you link to what ratchet you got please? I going to disconnect the air intake temp sensor this week to and see how it runs. I'm getting decent MPG on sensible driving this now too (43mpg on 20 mile motorway stretch sitting around 75 to 80 on the average counter).
I have done a fair bit of reading on the valve cleaning and other than chemical/handscraping or wall nut blasting are the only things that will make a difference. CRC valve cleaner is seemingly very good but its £40 for a can. I may start using it on every service every - haven't decided yet.
defo unplug your IAT and give the car a blast see if its any different. i have a feeling the 5V wire once disconnected might go back to the ECU and the ECU allows for all the other sensors and motor on that 5v to run on a "basic setting" (just like disconnecting the MAF sensor for those who know)
here's one i don't understand though! and to me, it seems wrong but I'm not sure if its right...
if you go into basic settings, punch in block 142 and youll see your flap motor bank 1 Actual and Specified.
when i first went into mine, it showed 0.000v actual and 1.440v specified. (engine off, ignition on)
completed an adaptation and it come up ADP OK which is cool, but then showed 3.720v Actual and 1.440v Specified!
done this to a mate, his first started at 0.000v and 1.760v done an Adaptation and got 2900v & 1760v
so mines like just over 2v diff and his is like 1v diff.. dunno if this would mean anything as he has an AXX and i have a BWA.
@Wadgti (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=37993) when you get 5 could you check yours out please and post up the figures.. anyone else please feel free to do so too :)
I will do mines tomorrow when I get a chance mate.
When I ran the adaption with the engine off, the first motor went up to 3.7v from what I can remember. I will take some photos tomorrow. i will probs do a log run when I am going to pick my beer up 2 from the shop :smiley:..
I have been tempted to take the manifold off but really cant be bothered having to reinstall the injectors plus I dont have the tool for it. I have ordered the micro ratchet, but wont get around change until next weekend as I need to attend to the garden and will be changing the oil and fuel filter on Saturday and thats the cars fully serviced now.
The motor I got was only £14 on ebay breakers but the guy said it was working, its worth a punt before I look at alternative options.
I have a spare "E" motor that I bought by mistake, its really clean if you need or anyone needs it. Bought it £20 delivered so can do the same as I don't need it anymore.
On @Pudding (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) point - if the flaps are stuck and the motor is still trying to turn, i wouldnt think it should throw the faulty motor code. I will try and and see if the flaps move on when adapting, not really wanting to do it on idle as means the cover and air filter would have to be off at the same time.
I will keep you posted.
Cheers
Post by: Dan_FR on May 16, 2019, 12:58:43 pm
Post by: pudding on May 16, 2019, 02:28:46 pm
As clunky, slow and outdated as VCDS is, it's the only option for VAG enthusiasts looking to get balls deep into diagnostics......unless you want to spend a few grand on a Snap-on Verus Pro!
Anyway, flaps. Everyone loves flaps and flapjacks! I agree they should be binned off. No one wants the extra complication and expense, but unfortunately some engines don't like having their flapjacks eaten....especially on a frosty morning eh @muff1991 (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9978) ? :grin:
Something strange going on with your flaps muff, and 'calculated' engine load seems a bit high to me! At idle, the flap position should be 99.6% i.e. fully closed.
Go for a drive from cold and get engine coolant, rpm, throttle angle and channel 143-3 (flap position) up on your screen. VCDS mobile via the HEX-NET interface is really handy for this as I stick my phone in front of the cluster for easy viewing.
Anyway, the flapjack behaviour is as follows:
Cold to 50 deg (iirc) water temp = flaps at 99.6% (fully closed) most of the time except heavy throttle.
50+ water temp = 99.6% at idle and cruising. When touching the gas, the flaps should go from 99.6% to 0.0% (fully open) pretty quickly. When backing off, the flaps should close progressively from 0.0 to 99.6. It's not a simple on/off and it's not rpm dependant either. The flaps can be closed cruising along at 80!
BTW, 'fully closed' doesn't mean blocking the port, it means maximum tumble effect. Air will always get past the flaps regardless......but if they are closed when they should be at 0.0%, you will notice a lack of power and/or very laggy torque delivery.
My Flap B1 positions are 0.00V and 1.450V by the way.....and they never move from that.....but the % position moves a lot!
Post by: muff1991 on May 16, 2019, 07:13:17 pm
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Post by: pudding on May 17, 2019, 10:26:37 am
I data logged it on the way into work this morning and I can confirm it comes out of warm-up mode at 50 degrees water temp.
The primary load is pedal position, not throttle as I first thought. The flaps very active! No wonder Revo don't offer a flap-less map. It's not as simple as just removing them.
Post by: Wadgti on May 17, 2019, 12:15:56 pm
@Pudding (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) temped to use a wire coat hanger and some string and make a pulley system for the flaps and just do it manually :happy2:
Post by: pudding on May 17, 2019, 05:05:32 pm
What VCDS have you got? I highly recommend HEX-NET and use VCDS mobile. It's REALLY useful for checking stuff when driving. You can't really look at a laptop sat on the passenger seat but a log would work also.
Log pedal position, water temp, rpm and flap position actual (143) and see what happens before reverting to medieval pulleys and ropes :grin:
Post by: Wadgti on May 17, 2019, 08:46:32 pm
Before adaption - code not cleared
(https://i.ibb.co/jLg87LV/Before-Adaption-Code-not-cleared.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7G2S7Gg)
Before adaption - code not cleared - idle
(https://i.ibb.co/ygy8bkB/Before-adaption-Idle-Code-not-cleared.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mhqHMyF)
Adaption screen - before adaption
(https://i.ibb.co/9p2fDtY/Adaption-Screen-before-adaption.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L06qF5p)
Adaption complete
(https://i.ibb.co/PxwYqLk/Adaption-complete.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R2zSRF8)
Idle after adaption
(https://i.ibb.co/HNFY7N7/Idle-after-adaption.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Xy2pXyX)
1800rpm
(https://i.ibb.co/SthLFbX/1800-rpm.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c6Gm40c)
Log file -
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z3vBybiUAtm3QCrP0XbAaWfp_b4-3V_S/view?usp=sharing
Post by: Wadgti on May 17, 2019, 09:04:36 pm
The plot thickens.... :laugh:
Post by: pudding on May 18, 2019, 11:31:04 am
Mine drives perfectly fine though! God knows. I'll try a basic settings adaptation and see if that changes anything!
Post by: Wadgti on May 20, 2019, 10:18:22 pm
Hmmmm, I'm now wondering if the % is open or closed now :grin: Yours is definitely moving but it seems to be the reverse operation of mine!. 99% open makes more sense than 99% closed thinking about it. The plot does indeed thicken!
Mine drives perfectly fine though! God knows. I'll try a basic settings adaptation and see if that changes anything!
Plot deff thickens now...
So changed the oil and fuel filter and over course pulled the fuel pump fuse on Saturday.
Scanned the car (car done about 100 miles since changed) today when I got back from work. Readiness was fully complete and no manifold codes only low pressure code for the fuel pump overcourse.
I will check it again in 2 days and see if the manifold codes are back but really strange. Ofcourse oil change wouldnt do anything, but thinking as I let the car die on ide with the pump out and had a violent shudder - i wonder if its knocked something into place on the flap motor - might be grasping tho.
Ps that sealey wrench came - its so small I could swallow it :grin:
Post by: muff1991 on May 21, 2019, 02:48:40 pm
So looking at your log, it almost seems like it’s varying under engine load as mentioned above. And I’d say 0% probably is open flaps looking at the higher load on your engine. But it would also make sense that 0% would be closed and 99% would be open. However I’m a bit confused on the whole thing tbh.
Looking at the voltage figures I would say they’re probs not far off correct. Coz that’s the 3rd GTI I’ve seen that shows around 2k volts and then 3k volts actual and specific after an adaptation!
I also have a spare motor which I plugged in (didn’t fit) and when you start turning the motor arm you see the voltage move! So the voltage shown is basically a position marking. Like a percentage of a throttle peddle for instance. Doesn’t make sense to me how they don’t match after an adaptation though maybe they just don’t.
I am starting to wonder if my issue and probably yours Wad.. could have something to do with a low fuel pressure sensor (the one in the side of HPFP). This sensor is run off the same 5v wire from the same pin on the ECU along with the IAT, inlet flap motor, cam sensor and coolant temp sensor! If any ones of these sensors are faulty they pull back on the others. Or revert others to a default/basic setting.
We ain’t had no cold weather for me to poke about with VCDS lately so Ive kind of ground to a holt as all stuff I’ve looked at seems to look ok, but then mine runs alright when temps are warm! I wrapped my IAT in bag of freezing sweetcorn the other day, to imitate freezing air temps but at -7 it didn’t make a blind bit of difference. Next I need to wrap up the Coolant temp sensor - yaaay! But it’s just so weird.. freezing cold, car won’t run, disconnect IAT it runs fine! Introduce freezing air to IAT when it’s warm outside and it still runs fine.. so nothing to do with the IAT or temps there what so ever.. it must be something along that line though! I’m wondering if whatever my issue is, we could be experiencing different issues but the end result is the same part! I’ll find a way to wrap the Coolant sensor and see if that makes a difference to the flaps positioning or sumin.
Oh and for the record.. only reason I’m thinking fuel pressure sensor is one cold morning the car started it was showing 2.5-3 bar and drove laggy etc. Drove to work (hour later) by the time I got there it was showing 6bar and drove fine!
Although all that fuel pressure mentioned.. the rail pressures after that sensor was fine! WTF
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Post by: Wadgti on May 21, 2019, 03:39:04 pm
Wad.. that sealey ratchet is the dogs though ain’t it! Will defo get in there!
So looking at your log, it almost seems like it’s varying under engine load as mentioned above. And I’d say 0% probably is open flaps looking at the higher load on your engine. But it would also make sense that 0% would be closed and 99% would be open. However I’m a bit confused on the whole thing tbh.
Looking at the voltage figures I would say they’re probs not far off correct. Coz that’s the 3rd GTI I’ve seen that shows around 2k volts and then 3k volts actual and specific after an adaptation!
I also have a spare motor which I plugged in (didn’t fit) and when you start turning the motor arm you see the voltage move! So the voltage shown is basically a position marking. Like a percentage of a throttle peddle for instance. Doesn’t make sense to me how they don’t match after an adaptation though maybe they just don’t.
I am starting to wonder if my issue and probably yours Wad.. could have something to do with a low fuel pressure sensor (the one in the side of HPFP). This sensor is run off the same 5v wire from the same pin on the ECU along with the IAT, inlet flap motor, cam sensor and coolant temp sensor! If any ones of these sensors are faulty they pull back on the others. Or revert others to a default/basic setting.
We ain’t had no cold weather for me to poke about with VCDS lately so Ive kind of ground to a holt as all stuff I’ve looked at seems to look ok, but then mine runs alright when temps are warm! I wrapped my IAT in bag of freezing sweetcorn the other day, to imitate freezing air temps but at -7 it didn’t make a blind bit of difference. Next I need to wrap up the Coolant temp sensor - yaaay! But it’s just so weird.. freezing cold, car won’t run, disconnect IAT it runs fine! Introduce freezing air to IAT when it’s warm outside and it still runs fine.. so nothing to do with the IAT or temps there what so ever.. it must be something along that line though! I’m wondering if whatever my issue is, we could be experiencing different issues but the end result is the same part! I’ll find a way to wrap the Coolant sensor and see if that makes a difference to the flaps positioning or sumin.
Oh and for the record.. only reason I’m thinking fuel pressure sensor is one cold morning the car started it was showing 2.5-3 bar and drove laggy etc. Drove to work (hour later) by the time I got there it was showing 6bar and drove fine!
Although all that fuel pressure mentioned.. the rail pressures after that sensor was fine! WTF
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I wish there was a more in depth workings of how the flap motor works and how vcds reads valves and what they relate to. Sadly I haven't found much. More specifically the upper voltage stop as it read's 0 volts when throwing a code.
Drove another 60 miles and the low end torque is deffenitly back and can hear a louder spool from inside the cabin with the windows closed now so the motor is deff working.
I seen on the tdi forums that there was an issue with broken wires inside the loom cant recall which sensors so wouldnt rule it out that they may be an issue with the loom - hopefully not.
When I changed the cam follower last month, I cleaned the sensor connection for the HPFP and coolant sensor and will do the other sensors as I come across them. I also cleaned the MAF with molly proper MAF cleaner (this stuff is nuts - used it for years - I brought my mates MAF back to life when readings were under 50 g/s and throwing codes). Cold starts I know can relate to the MAF and may not throw a code - I would deff give it a clean if its not been touched in years. I sprayed my maf against some kitchen roll and some oil did come off it.
Getting the car carbon cleaned tomorrow so hopefully will slightly improve things.
Whats the blocks for measuring the fuel pump pressure?
Thanks
Post by: muff1991 on May 21, 2019, 04:45:11 pm
Post by: pudding on May 25, 2019, 11:50:51 am
Post by: muff1991 on May 25, 2019, 06:56:15 pm
@Wad, did you replace your motor?
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Post by: Wadgti on May 27, 2019, 12:37:00 pm
The more I thought about all this. The more I thought they probably are normal. FWIW I’m going to chuck a rev E motor on purely as I got given one for free and it’s like new! I come to conclusion in my head that it’s probs not this motor or flaps anyway, so unless error codes are pinging up for this... I’m going to allow these flapjacks for now and revert back to replacing every temp sensor going
@Wad, did you replace your motor?
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Sadly not yet, I moved house last year, so I have had to spend the last 2 weeks doing the garden as I have shed being delivered and prepping to build my garage - so time has been short at the moment.
I will try and possibly give it a go this saturday. I have a feeling the the code is back, but really its changing on a day to day basis with the low end torque being there and not.
Got the engine carbon cleaned - was a bit of the joke tho the guy couldn't secure the pipe into the air intake - ended up taking out the air intake sensor and fed in via that. There was more or less than got 0 smoke out of the exhaust and nothing coming out in terms of carbon deposits. The guy doing it was a bit perplexed and only changed me half. What was weird was during the process the exhaust gas was coming out cold for a period of time lol.
Post by: Wadgti on May 29, 2019, 08:34:59 pm
changed the fuel filter yesterday - it was the original one from the factory still on it, mileage is now has 99k just turned the other day.
Since changing the filter more power is back, low end torque too picks up instantly from 2k revs - car feels like 200 bhp now and misfire on idle is gone. Just for info - this is what came out of the old filter :sick: :sick:
(https://i.ibb.co/27SkKGH/20190529-183534.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bgFKdcD)
Post by: muff1991 on May 29, 2019, 10:04:39 pm
sometimes its the most simplest of maintenance lol good find and glad yours its all sorted now mate. 
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Post by: pudding on June 01, 2019, 03:45:13 pm