MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: blingsta on September 16, 2022, 07:42:38 pm
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Hi all..
My edition 30 passed its MOT today :jumpmove:
But my shocks need replacing and I was wondering what the best set up would be ? What's the best shocks for me to buy? Orrr would it be worth considering coilovers? Which coilovers are good ones ?
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Too many choices fella, everyone will pitch in with their set up being dogs danglies, but difficult to compare.
You need to work out budget and how you want to use them - this will dictate the way to go.
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Well, my car is a stage 2+ and is my daily, mostly driven 30 miles a day on the motorway, so I'm after comfort but also wanna give a nice looking stance so was thinking a 20mm drop. Budget wise.... what would £350 buy me?
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You might be able to get Bilstien B4 dampers and Eibach springs for a bit over your budget.
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I'm happy to go over £350 for a decent set up as I have no intention of selling.. so is bilstein the best option for dampers?
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I'm open to try some coilovers.. but don't know which are decent and worth trying.. I don't want a harsh ride.
So what would be the recommendations if my budget was £500?
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Bilstein are great manufacturer, B4 are ok, reported to be slightly firmer than standard - but if your looking for a bit more control B6 are where it starts to get interesting.
Personally I have AP coil-overs I have been happy with for 2 years - or they also do matched shocks and sports springs for a bit less money, IIRC @Pudding (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) spoke favourably about, but has returned to more standard shocks since then, suspect it was the commute he does.
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Anyone had any experience or heard of stance ultra coilovers?
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Or am I just wasting my money with the above? Is the suspension that eurocarparts provide any good?
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Found some AP coilovers for £600.. does that sound about right?
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Found some AP coilovers for £600.. does that sound about right?
Probably - I got mine very cheap off ebay, but it was pre brexit/covid for £450 delivered from Italy.
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So I think I might just go for these.. its bilstien b4 and eibac 20mm drop
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331842661330?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=mE_L49NxRXC&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=hyuCg4coRGO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
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Can anyone recommend what top mounts to go for please
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Just on Aks website.. looks like the ttrs top mounts are the preferred option.. can anyone confirm if they are a good upgrade?
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Are the ttrs top mounts a must do upgrade or will standard new top mounts be ok with the above kit?
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Yes - they are tougher / less movement than standard ones - dont forget bearings too
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Don't the bearings come with the mounts? If not.... which bearings do I get and where from?
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I've just checked Aks... they sell the mounts for £165 and it shows bearings included :signLOL:
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I appreciate this will not be a particularly popular route, but I have done the following:
- New Sachs shock absorbers front and rear
- New front Sachs springs and original rears (they were fine)
- New Febi top mounts front and rear
- New Powerflex ARB bushes front and rear
- Genuine Passat B6 front wishbones with new OEM Lemforder bushes front and rear
- New Lemforder front drop links
- New Febi balljoints
- Front subframe collars
I will slowly start working through the rear arms, but for now I am really happy. Of course the springs mean that it won’t give you a drop but going the OEM-ish route will tighten things up massively, simply because all of the original factory suspension and bushes will be soggy by now. I think waiting for MOT fails is too late.
If I were to do it again I would try a better quality damper, perhaps a Bilstein, but otherwise very happy with the approach I have taken.
Lots of people compare worn factory suspension to aftermarket suspension (particularly shocks and springs) but that isn’t exactly a fair comparison. I’m also not sure aftermarket (and stiffer) shocks and springs with worn original bushes makes sense but I’ve certainly done it in the past.
Just another perspective!
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Thank you for the above mate :happy2:
This has been doing my head in for the past few days Lol.. I appreciate that you get what you pay for etc .. but I've kinda decided on the bilstein b4 shocks and eibac 20mm drop springs. Although I'm pretty sure I have lowering springs on mime at the moment, I thought I'd renew them too. Have read that the bilstein b4's are a little firmer than stock , but as long as the whole car doesn't crash and bang on a uneven road and the car can go over a speed hump without it scraping all the time.... then I'd be happy :signLOL:
So can anyone vouch for the above link I posted? The b4 kit with eibach springs?
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I have the B4s and Eibach as after 180k miles I figured the suspension needed a refresh. The rears are a little too low for me, there's a post in MK5 General about sorting this a bit. Overall very happy, paid £299 for the set. I also got Whiteline front and rear ARBs and adjustable drop links along with the Audi TTRS top mounts. Goes over all but the most ridiculously high speed bumps, i.e. those bricks in the road where the sides have been worn down so they're higher than they should be. Worthwhile if you're keeping the car, I'm on 200k and no intention of selling, too much fun! Just remember to get it all aligned afterwards.
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I should have said, my car actually came on Eibach springs. Front shocks had been replaced a few years ago but rears looked original. All shocks were Sachs. The ride was pretty crashy which I think was because all of the shocks had blown and the front top mounts were shot.
Broadly that confirmed my view that you should only use shortened shocks with shortened springs, because otherwise the shocks will be operating outside ideal range and more likely to blow.
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Bilstein are great manufacturer, B4 are ok, reported to be slightly firmer than standard - but if your looking for a bit more control B6 are where it starts to get interesting.
Personally I have AP coil-overs I have been happy with for 2 years - or they also do matched shocks and sports springs for a bit less money, IIRC @Pudding (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) spoke favourably about, but has returned to more standard shocks since then, suspect it was the commute he does.
That was the ST suspension kit mate. It was actually pretty good for the money but some folk would find it a bit too rough and tumble.
I went with H&R non-GTI springs and B4s about 6 months or so ago as I wanted a bit more compliance and travel. Seems to do the job but kind of regret not getting the B6 dampers though :grin:
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Thanking you all for the replies guys :happy2:
im still trying to find something within budget and kinda narrowed it down to these -
Euro's have got Bilstein shocks (but doesnt specify which model, so im assuming B4's) - Front and rear shocks only = £376.96
TDC Automotive- 4x Bilstein B4's with 20mm Eibach springs = £379.95
Awesom GTI have got Raceing line suspension for about £580
Sooooooo ... unless i can find B6 dampers for roughly £400 and i'll use my own springs - it looks like i might just go the B4 route - its what the budget allows - surely, it cant be any worse than my leaking shocks at the moment :signLOL:
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B6s are pretty expensive, and then there's Rabbit hole of MK6 vs MK5 B6s to go down as well, which is why I just got MK5 GTI spec B4s for an easier life :grin:
B4s are pretty good as an OEM like-for-like replacement, but I don't think they like stiff springs or uprated ARBs though. Bilstein say the B4 can be used with mild lowering springs, but just depends how much stiffer/lower they are compared to stock.
B4s + Stock springs + stock ARBs = No problem. Works as expected.
B4s + H&R or Eibach springs + Stock ARBs = No guarantees, but a lot of folk get on with that setup.
B4s + H&R or Eibach springs + H&R or Eibach ARBs = Horrible. You definitely need B6 or B8 for that combination.
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B6s are pretty expensive, and then there's Rabbit hole of MK6 vs MK5 B6s to go down as well, which is why I just got MK5 GTI spec B4s for an easier life :grin:
B4s are pretty good as an OEM like-for-like replacement, but I don't think they like stiff springs or uprated ARBs though. Bilstein say the B4 can be used with mild lowering springs, but just depends how much stiffer/lower they are compared to stock.
B4s + Stock springs + stock ARBs = No problem. Works as expected.
B4s + H&R or Eibach springs + Stock ARBs = No guarantees, but a lot of folk get on with that setup.
B4s + H&R or Eibach springs + H&R or Eibach ARBs = Horrible. You definitely need B6 or B8 for that combination.
wow.. a very good bit of info there pudding :happy2:..
so i now need to find out if my car has got upgraded ARB's :signLOL: what makes it horrible?
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Not super experienced in the combos but I can't say I've any complaints with the B4 + Eibach + whiteline ARBs. Certainly a lot better than a stock setup on 180k miles :grin:
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Thanks chaps.. I will report back with my feedback once purchased and fitted :happy2:
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Bilstein are great manufacturer, B4 are ok, reported to be slightly firmer than standard - but if your looking for a bit more control B6 are where it starts to get interesting.
Personally I have AP coil-overs I have been happy with for 2 years - or they also do matched shocks and sports springs for a bit less money, IIRC @Pudding (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) spoke favourably about, but has returned to more standard shocks since then, suspect it was the commute he does.
That was the ST suspension kit mate. It was actually pretty good for the money but some folk would find it a bit too rough and tumble.
I went with H&R non-GTI springs and B4s about 6 months or so ago as I wanted a bit more compliance and travel. Seems to do the job but kind of regret not getting the B6 dampers though :grin:
I thought you had Ohlins. Too stiff for road use?
I really liked the idea of their Road and Track kit when it was released. Top end damping for a road car but I can imagine them being stiff.
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Guys... would it even be worth considering a 2yr old 2nd hand B12 kit for £300?
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I would not buy used shocks. Not unless it was part of a trick coilover setup that I knew I was going to get rebuilt by the manufacturer. Even springs fatigue and crack.
Remember that shocks fail over time. Not suddenly they just lose their ability to dampen. There is also a chance that they are totally dead. My front Sachs shocks weren’t that old and were in good visual condition but a few years of Eibach springs killed them.
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B6s are pretty expensive, and then there's Rabbit hole of MK6 vs MK5 B6s to go down as well, which is why I just got MK5 GTI spec B4s for an easier life :grin:
B4s are pretty good as an OEM like-for-like replacement, but I don't think they like stiff springs or uprated ARBs though. Bilstein say the B4 can be used with mild lowering springs, but just depends how much stiffer/lower they are compared to stock.
B4s + Stock springs + stock ARBs = No problem. Works as expected.
B4s + H&R or Eibach springs + Stock ARBs = No guarantees, but a lot of folk get on with that setup.
B4s + H&R or Eibach springs + H&R or Eibach ARBs = Horrible. You definitely need B6 or B8 for that combination.
wow.. a very good bit of info there pudding :happy2:..
so i now need to find out if my car has got upgraded ARB's :signLOL: what makes it horrible?
It might just be my abysmal local roads, or the fact my car has 15 year old bushes on it (at the rear), but it just feels like the B4s can't cope with the extra spring rate of the Eibach ARBs over bumps. It translates into a very jiggly and unsettled ride. I can't find any stock ARBs to test my theory, but in any case, suspension is way too subjective to pin down any firm recommendations. One person's smooth roads is another's crater infested nightmare!
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Not super experienced in the combos but I can't say I've any complaints with the B4 + Eibach + whiteline ARBs. Certainly a lot better than a stock setup on 180k miles :grin:
Interesting! It could be some differences between H&R and Whiteline then as we are otherwise the same :smiley: Your roads are probably better too!
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Bilstein are great manufacturer, B4 are ok, reported to be slightly firmer than standard - but if your looking for a bit more control B6 are where it starts to get interesting.
Personally I have AP coil-overs I have been happy with for 2 years - or they also do matched shocks and sports springs for a bit less money, IIRC @Pudding (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) spoke favourably about, but has returned to more standard shocks since then, suspect it was the commute he does.
That was the ST suspension kit mate. It was actually pretty good for the money but some folk would find it a bit too rough and tumble.
I went with H&R non-GTI springs and B4s about 6 months or so ago as I wanted a bit more compliance and travel. Seems to do the job but kind of regret not getting the B6 dampers though :grin:
I thought you had Ohlins. Too stiff for road use?
I really liked the idea of their Road and Track kit when it was released. Top end damping for a road car but I can imagine them being stiff.
They're in the parts cupboard awaiting rebuild / trip to the metal skip / sell on..... haven't decided yet. They basically lasted 30,000 miles before they started knocking. Something to do with a nylon piston sleeve wearing out and allowing the piston rod to contact metal, which has also kindly chipped off chunks of chrome plate.
Absolutely appalling longevity, but absolutely sublime damping. I really liked them but they're of no use for cars that do 20K miles a year :grin:
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Bilstein are great manufacturer, B4 are ok, reported to be slightly firmer than standard - but if your looking for a bit more control B6 are where it starts to get interesting.
Personally I have AP coil-overs I have been happy with for 2 years - or they also do matched shocks and sports springs for a bit less money, IIRC @Pudding (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) spoke favourably about, but has returned to more standard shocks since then, suspect it was the commute he does.
That was the ST suspension kit mate. It was actually pretty good for the money but some folk would find it a bit too rough and tumble.
I went with H&R non-GTI springs and B4s about 6 months or so ago as I wanted a bit more compliance and travel. Seems to do the job but kind of regret not getting the B6 dampers though :grin:
I thought you had Ohlins. Too stiff for road use?
I really liked the idea of their Road and Track kit when it was released. Top end damping for a road car but I can imagine them being stiff.
They're in the parts cupboard awaiting rebuild / trip to the metal skip / sell on..... haven't decided yet. They basically lasted 30,000 miles before they started knocking. Something to do with a nylon piston sleeve wearing out and allowing the piston rod to contact metal, which has also kindly chipped off chunks of chrome plate.
Absolutely appalling longevity, but absolutely sublime damping. I really liked them but they're of no use for cars that do 20K miles a year :grin:
That’s a shame. I’d say Ohlins would definitely be worth rebuilding, either by you or the next owner.
When I first got my MK5 I actually did contemplate fitting the R&T kit to an otherwise standard (but very well maintained) car. Then realised I am old and grey and fitted factory stuff.
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Bilstein are great manufacturer, B4 are ok, reported to be slightly firmer than standard - but if your looking for a bit more control B6 are where it starts to get interesting.
Personally I have AP coil-overs I have been happy with for 2 years - or they also do matched shocks and sports springs for a bit less money, IIRC @Pudding (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) spoke favourably about, but has returned to more standard shocks since then, suspect it was the commute he does.
That was the ST suspension kit mate. It was actually pretty good for the money but some folk would find it a bit too rough and tumble.
I went with H&R non-GTI springs and B4s about 6 months or so ago as I wanted a bit more compliance and travel. Seems to do the job but kind of regret not getting the B6 dampers though :grin:
I thought you had Ohlins. Too stiff for road use?
I really liked the idea of their Road and Track kit when it was released. Top end damping for a road car but I can imagine them being stiff.
They're in the parts cupboard awaiting rebuild / trip to the metal skip / sell on..... haven't decided yet. They basically lasted 30,000 miles before they started knocking. Something to do with a nylon piston sleeve wearing out and allowing the piston rod to contact metal, which has also kindly chipped off chunks of chrome plate.
Absolutely appalling longevity, but absolutely sublime damping. I really liked them but they're of no use for cars that do 20K miles a year :grin:
That’s a shame. I’d say Ohlins would definitely be worth rebuilding, either by you or the next owner.
When I first got my MK5 I actually did contemplate fitting the R&T kit to an otherwise standard (but very well maintained) car. Then realised I am old and grey and fitted factory stuff.
I'm old and grey-ish and still fitted them :grin: Honestly, just those and everything else standard.....amazing.
I've heard there is a better, longer lasting bush now which should make them live longer. Trouble is, you're looking at about £250 per shock for a professional rebuild. That's Bilstein B12 Pro money, with some change! The rears are actually fine though and don't need doing, but me being me, I'd want all 4 doing at once. Anyhoo.....as Edd China says on his YouTube channel...."that's a job for another day."