MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Pudding on July 03, 2020, 07:42:44 pm

Title: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on July 03, 2020, 07:42:44 pm
The dread of all MK5 GTI owners....rust.

So I decided to take the sill covers off to attack a couple of tiny little scabs of rust on the sills adjacent to the front door, the usual spot.  The spot not covered under warranty due to VW's 'edge and fold' get out of jail card (w@nkers).

You know when you were a kid and picked at a 'falling off your skate board' scab, and regretted it?  Yeah....no different to picking rust scabs on MK5s.  Instant regret.

What I was greeted with after removing the arch covers was a bit shocking to say the least.  I know MK5s have a reputation for being rot bags, but I wasn't expecting this 1980s Ford Escort level of rust. 

Everyone knows about the front end of the sill rusting, but that isn't the main area of the concern.  It's the rear of the sill you need to worry about.

I'll let the pictures do the talking but suffice to say guys, if your love your MK5 and it's a keeper.....please take your sill covers off ASAP and check for this level of rot before it's too late.  Sill cover removal and refitting is a very involved job but definitely DIY'able.  I will go over that if folk want me to, but just take your time removing the sill covers and don't gorilla them off.  They are held on with double sided tape and a massive blob of urethane glue at the rear (very hard to remove).

A small 5mm scab in the usual place turned into lots of scabs the entire length of the sill.....

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50071925023_fcb8835231_k.jpg)

And then when we get to the back, and oh dear.  Pretty much the same on both sides but the driver's side was by far the worst, which is weird as most of the dirt is on the passenger side of the road....

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50072737422_03a9b4842d_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50072737647_51ab1f4d39_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50071925213_53a7653943_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50072738027_53f41258d3_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50072737917_288832576c_k.jpg)

I used POR-15 rust treatment and some glassfibre to fill the holes in the sill, and then repainted the whole lot and refitted the sill covers.  A complete and utter ball ache but well worth doing.  It's an easy £1000+ job at a body shop.

VW simply don't deserve the following they have with their parts pricing and shoddily made cars.  Seeing this p1ssed me right off.  If it wasn't for the fact MK5s are so nice to drive, I'd be switching brands.  Hopefully I've bought another 3-5 years lifespan repairing this, but my next car definitely will NOT be a VW.

The sill covers as nice as they are to look at, are primarily the cause of this rot problem.  How many 1.4 and diesel MK5s with no sill covers do you see with rotted out sills?  None.

Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: shail on July 03, 2020, 08:28:16 pm
While you are there, check the bit of the sill that is under the front wing.  I had bubbles both sides at that location.  Sorted it out last month.  Wasn't too bad, but glad I did it.

(https://i.ibb.co/ZK8WcNv/IMG-20200509-131735.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K7qFVmB)
<a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>upload photo to website[/url]
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on July 03, 2020, 08:36:13 pm
Cheers mate.  I didn't feel like taking the wings off at the time but I think I will attack that area next.  I did have as good a look as I could at that area and it seemed OK, but I'll pull the wings off when we get some decent weather!

Bloody cars.  12 year anti-corrosion warranty, ha!  I saw evidence of VW plastering seam sealer onto already surface rusted metal on mine, bloody cowboys.
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on July 03, 2020, 08:42:38 pm
Do you know what? I actually preferred the look of the car without the sill covers tbh, but if the car has them fitted at the factory, you can't leave them off due to the 9 self tapping screws VW rammed into the sills to locate them.....unless you like the look of said holes and crushed in dimples  :doh:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50072314498_932e0dbdda_k.jpg)

Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: titchy on July 03, 2020, 09:15:13 pm
Plastic cladding the bane of cars at least you got it before it got structural. The makers know but dont care as mostly past warranty
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: JR.303 on July 04, 2020, 09:04:26 am
Great. I have just spent loads on mine.
Head in the sand for a bit then.
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: rich83 on July 04, 2020, 12:51:24 pm
If I don't look, its not there...............
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on July 04, 2020, 04:34:58 pm
Aye, ignorance is bliss  :smiley:

I only attacked it because I want the car to last as long as possible within a reasonable budget.  I'm over it now.  There are far worse German cars out there for this sort of thing (cough, E46 M3, cough) and I forget it's 13 years old......
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: carsten on July 04, 2020, 07:31:07 pm
I am about to go dive in to this issue my self... The Danish climate is no good for these cars. Any advice on removing the sill covers?

/Carsten
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: GVK on July 04, 2020, 08:05:55 pm

Head in the sand for a bit then.

These were my thoughts when I saw this.  :scared:
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: OldGTI on July 05, 2020, 09:37:48 am
Great post Pudding. I have done mine and not as bad as your (07 car) but want to add that it is well worth also getting the outer wheel arches off and getting under there with a stiff brush and some Dinitrol RC900 followed by some cavity way. I found mud and dirt at the bottom of the arches and removed the sponge in the front arches that causes the rust. Luckily no rust on mine but could see the area could be a problem.
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: shail on July 05, 2020, 10:17:00 am
I am about to go dive in to this issue my self... The Danish climate is no good for these cars. Any advice on removing the sill covers?

/Carsten

I didn't remove the whole sill cover, just the bit by the front wing.   

Basically there are 3 or 4 torx bolts underneath the sill and at the ends.  To get sill off I gently pulled upwards and out, but mainly upwards force.  Appeared to be a channel that the sill is hooked into plus some adhesive tape.
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: maxamplitude10 on July 05, 2020, 12:10:44 pm
Hey pudding I've noticed some rust colour sores sneaking out from under the rear of the sill covers recently :mad: :mad:
How do you remove the sill covers?
I removed the front wheel liners and the front sill to wheel arch crevice was rammed with crap.... I cleaned all that and wax oiled it all. I want to prolong the life of the Ed30 so if I have sill rot I would prefer to deal with it now!!!!!

Thanks
Max
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: bobby_fodge on July 06, 2020, 01:05:03 pm
Hi Pudding, please can you let us know the steps for taking the covers off?

I KNOW mine need tidying and my wings will also come off as I see some bubble on the top edge of the fronts of the sills.
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: LC5F on July 06, 2020, 08:55:13 pm
I'm dreading what lies beneath my covers.

Stumbled across a site that tells you how well galvanised zinc copes - pretty much how corrosive your town or postcode is
https://www.galvanizing.org.uk/corrosion-map/?utm_source=home&utm_medium=internal&utm_campaign=Homepage (https://www.galvanizing.org.uk/corrosion-map/?utm_source=home&utm_medium=internal&utm_campaign=Homepage)
This is the full UK map, that dark blue spot on the NE coast of Scotland is Aberdeen... where I got my Golf:
(https://www.powerandcables.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Corrosion-Rates-for-the-UK.jpg)

Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on July 10, 2020, 06:59:19 pm
Sill cover removal.  Long post alert  :grin: 

It's worth taking the time to read through it as there are some 'gotchas' you need to be aware of to ensure the covers go back on to a factory standard. I messed it up the first time. Easily done  :doh:

Removing the sill covers is fairly easy, just need to take your time.  The sill covers are very tough, so don't worry about snapping them. What you need to be careful of is not damaging the good paint with a blade when cutting through the double sided tape.

I started at the front because the rust had destroyed the paint, therefore that end of the cover pulled away from the car very easily.  Whilst prizing the sill cover away from the car with a plastic wedge, I sliced through the tape with a scalpel, and worked my way along to the back of the car 3-4cm at a time.

At the back you may find there is a massive blob of urethane glue (you can see it on the 4th pic down, first post) bonding the cover to the car.  This was a right pain in the arse to break free.  I used assorted plastic trim removal tools to peck away at it until it finally broke free.  Be very careful with this bit as you can leave a permanent indent in the sill cover if you gorilla it.  I believe you can get urethane glue removing chemicals but it may damage the paint.  Not sure.  That was by far the most tedious, difficult bit of the whole removal process.

Once all the tape and glue is broken free, lift the sill up and off the car.  You will be left with a long plastic guide strip and 9 self tapping screws, and a big load of double sided tape to remove from the car...and sill covers.  Simply slide the plastic guide to the right and it will pop off the screws.

Remove the screws with a 5.5mm socket.  These may be rusted.  A few of them broke off on mine trying to undo them.  New screws are available from the dealer and I would replace them all personally.

Once the cover is off, you're now faced with the hideous task of removing the tape leftovers and glue residue from the car.  For this you will need a Toffee wheel.  Pop it in your drill and run it at a slow speed.  It will grab hard, so hold onto the drill tightly.  You may find your drill overheats and shuts off doing this (4 meters of sh1t per side to remove!) so give it a rest every few minutes.  If you over speed the toffee wheel, it WILL take your paint off, so be very careful.....but it's 1000x faster than using Goo Gone or similar oil based glue remover.  Don't use cellulose thinners as it WILL wreck the good paint. 

I recommend using the toffee wheel on the sill covers first to get a feel for it as they are a lot tougher than the paintwork on the car.

After removing all the tape from the car and sill covers, treat the rust and repaint the affected areas accordingly.

For repairing rusted areas under the factory seam sealer, and also to replicate the dimpled finish on the sills, I used U-Pol Grey Stripe.

For paint, VW do rattle can kits, or I found Halfords paint was a good match, and a lot cheaper.  I used U-Pol Clear One laquer as it's way better than the factory stuff.  Red cars in particular will benefit from that as it's UV resistant.

When it comes to refitting the sills, honestly, I highly recommend doing a 'dry run' without the tape first to get a feel for how they line up on the bodywork.  First you need to refit the plastic guide strip (VW used this to make sure the cover sits dead parallel on the car) onto the 9 screws mentioned previously.  The sill cover then clips into said guide strip and it's important you slot it in fully along the whole length or it will never line up properly.

Start at the back (important!) as the body to cover profile is very exact. Offer the sill up, and when you're happy with the alignment, pull on the tape's backing strip and work your away along towards the front, pushing the sill onto the car firmly as you pull on the backing.  If you want to reapply a blob of urethan glue, go ahead.  I did.  I figure VW put it there for a reason so I did the same.  The glue is also a good 'get out of jail' card to stick the cover down afterwards if there are gaps.

Don't use cheap generic double sided tape either.  The stuff you need is 1mm thick 3M automotive tape (linked below) and it will stick down perfectly.

Hope that helps.  You'll see what needs doing once it's all off the car  :happy2:

Useful links:

3M automotive tape - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01DVWCXWG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Toffee Wheel - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00ATPOH3C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Plastic razor blades - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07CZC21YF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Goo Gone - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00006IBNJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Urethane glue - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002SQY852/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Seam Sealer - https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-and-body-repair/fillers-and-preparation/u-pol-grey-stripe-1l-154195.html

Clear coat - https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-and-body-repair/scratch-repair-and-paint-restorers/upol-clear-1-aerosol-387662.html

Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: maxamplitude10 on July 11, 2020, 09:38:16 am
Thanks pudding great instructions, still wary of tackling this but it's a must so here goes...... :scared:
Max
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on July 11, 2020, 11:42:03 am
No worries Max  :happy2:

It's not too bad a job once you get stuck in and have done one side.  The other side you will know the score  :happy2:

Doing a dry run before peeling the backing tape off, and using the decent 3M tape are the key areas of concern when refitting them. Get that right and you'll have no issues  :smiley:  You will know when it's right when dropping the sill cover into it's locating channel because it will sit flush onto the car. 

If you have to use force to get it to sit flush, particularly in the rear arch area, something is wrong. The cause of that would likely be the rear of the cover isn't located into the guide channel correctly  :happy2:

It all sounds complicated and scary but it really isn't.  Could probably be explained in a 1 minute video but it's too late for that now  :grin:
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: maxamplitude10 on July 16, 2020, 02:52:12 pm
Thanks I'll feedback my experience:-)
Max :happy2:
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: bobby_fodge on July 16, 2020, 03:04:35 pm
Thanks for making the effort Pudding.
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on July 17, 2020, 05:25:56 pm
No worries guys.  I don't know how long my amateur repairs will last but looking OK from 6 feet away and lasting 2-3 years will do I think! 
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: shail on July 17, 2020, 05:45:20 pm
You might be surprised how long it lasts.  I did some rust repairs on my old MK4 - arch lip and boot handle.  No issues after 4 years, and that was using cheap paint from Halfords.
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on July 17, 2020, 05:58:33 pm
That's encouraging  :happy2:

MK4s were just a lot better made than MK5s in the first place, imo.  My missus has a MK4 1.6 that's 18 years old and there's not a single bit of rust on it anywhere, not even around the boot handle - which was a common spot on those.  My old MK4 R32 was equally rot free.

I don't know if all MK5s are the same but mine is terrible. Iffy panel gaps, zinc inclusions everywhere and the paint on the roof and bonnet is incredibly thin and fragile. If I was OCD about paint and detailing, I would have got shot of it long ago  :grin:

The annoying thing about MK5s is they drive so damned nice, so I end up forgiving it's shortcomings.
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: OldGTI on July 17, 2020, 08:53:59 pm
"Iffy panel gaps, zinc inclusions everywhere and the paint on the roof and bonnet is incredibly thin and fragile. If I was OCD about paint and detailing, I would have got shot of it long ago  :grin:

The annoying thing about MK5s is they drive so damned nice, so I end up forgiving it's shortcomings."

Sounds like you are talking Italian :)
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on July 17, 2020, 09:54:19 pm
Funny you should say that, these cars do enjoy a good Italian tune up!

But yeah, they are irritatingly similar to an Alfa..... love / hate  :grin:
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: chimp400 on July 18, 2020, 01:18:36 pm
While you are there, check the bit of the sill that is under the front wing.  I had bubbles both sides at that location.  Sorted it out last month.  Wasn't too bad, but glad I did it.

(https://i.ibb.co/ZK8WcNv/IMG-20200509-131735.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K7qFVmB)
<a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>upload photo to website[/url]


I see evidence of this on mine and will take a look soon, is the wing easy to remove?
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: shail on July 18, 2020, 01:27:31 pm
To remove wing is a bit of a pain.
Need to remove bumper and wheel arch liner to access some of the bolts holding wing in place.  Once bumper and liner are off the wing bolts are straight forward. 
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on July 18, 2020, 04:22:22 pm
Is there any scope for wing re-alignment when you bolt it back on?  My passenger wing's shut line sticks out proud of the door slightly.  Not massively so, but it's noticeable.  One of those things you can't unsee once you've seen it.  Or maybe the door itself needs moving out?  I hate bodywork stuff  :sick:  Would much rather be building an engine!

I see you've got the same white line in the paint just above the top of the sill.  Mine was like that all the way along. I think grit gets in that gap and just abrades the paint away or something.
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: shail on July 18, 2020, 07:46:41 pm
You can realign the wing.  If it's sticking out by door then you may get away without needing to remove bumper.   Get wheel liner off and loosen the 3 or 4 behind.  Also loosen bolts at top of wing under the bonnet.  Don't forget the one tucked under windscreen.

You should then be able to move wing about a little.
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on July 20, 2020, 11:56:26 am
Thanks mate, will give that a try  :happy2:
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: maxamplitude10 on July 25, 2020, 06:19:57 am
I had my doors realigned at a body shop, 40 quid and looks much better now. Might be worth a try
Max

Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on July 25, 2020, 01:17:24 pm
Thanks Max.  Moving the door up or down is easy enough, but in and out seems to be lacking in online info!
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: rich83 on April 13, 2021, 08:13:22 am
@Pudding (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) what size tin of POR15 did you buy? I have my rear wheels off at the moment so I am going to treat the rear arches where needed.

Rich
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: amanda on April 13, 2021, 10:00:58 am
If I don't look, its not there...............





You WIMP :P


I know mine are heading that way as Vw replaced wings but wouldn’t budge on sills  :fighting:
New Sills are Are on my list as repair in my book doesn’t cut the dreaded tin worm out!!!
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: rich83 on April 14, 2021, 10:22:28 pm
If I don't look, its not there...............





You WIMP :P


I know mine are heading that way as Vw replaced wings but wouldn’t budge on sills  :fighting:
New Sills are Are on my list as repair in my book doesn’t cut the dreaded tin worm out!!!

Touché!!!

Well I looked and surprisingly they are not too bad
(https://i.postimg.cc/Jn3TL87M/16-F8-EC12-779-B-4-C4-A-825-F-BFDD073-FFFEF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gXJyVf6T)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Hnp6WNj5/239391-FD-7-B44-48-E0-8-B89-D7-FA61-E84-A4-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wyGX00XT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3xWbDz1F/45572083-BBF7-4-F03-9451-F46719-E0-E37-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qNVGPb9N)

That last photo is the worst bit
Title: Re: Rust! Warning: contains images some viewers may find distressing.
Post by: Pudding on April 16, 2021, 09:35:43 pm
I just got a starter kit which is pretty much tester sized pots, which was plenty.

Yours is in good shape  :happy2: