MK5 Golf GTI
Forum Market Place & Useful Links => Traders Showcase => Topic started by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on March 07, 2014, 12:56:32 pm
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As above, if anybody's interested can post some pics up.....
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do it, do it :popcornsoda:
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As above, if anybody's interested can post some pics up.....
Do bears sh*t in the woods?
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As above, if anybody's interested can post some pics up.....
Do bears sh*t in the woods?
Does he use a rabbit to wipe his arse? :party: :party: :party:
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In your own time Dave. :popcornsoda:
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Are you allowed to post brake porn? :jumping:
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I do I do I do :laugh:, nothing like a bit of dirty brake porn
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:party:
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come on Dave :pomppomp: :pomppomp:
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Come on then, where are they?? :wink:
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Are you allowed to post brake porn? :jumping:
Another night of going to bed unsatisfied "teaser" :rolleye:
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Sh1t sorry chaps, didn't think anybody be too interested.....
I'll sort it promise
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Come on Dave you know us better than that :signLOL:
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:popcornsoda:
:worthless:
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Subsbed
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Mee
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Firstly apologies, didn't think anybody be arsed and I've been away - will take some today and see if I can't post them up....
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Lol
I hope you deliver faster
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:popcornsoda:
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:fighting2:
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I knew a girl like you in school, but I still liked looking at her.
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Great thread this isn't it?
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Great thread this isn't it?
:sad1:
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Is this a subtle way of saying you're not supplying the brakes to VW Cup Teams? Breaking the news slowly? :P
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Ok Ok Ok Ok......asked the question and forgot I did....
Start with the disc assemblies then.....its all about the rotor....these 4542 Castings from AP serve a number of motorsport applications and feature in competition kits from AP racing for all sorts of cars from Scoobies, Fords if anybody have ever bothered tp read the Seat Supercopa Race Car parts catalogue then you'll see them in there too...
They're hard, heat treated post machining and the initial treatment involves them being treated in molten salt.
So heres the rotor fresh out of the box we paint the heat temp paint on it to save the guys a job trackside
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F4E159418-741C-4A9F-8849-8C8EB6804141_zpsulha7crw.jpg&hash=32b6248f0b7817f60dfcf589719d5c6f58e197d5)
So we add our own design bell, this kit started life as a replacement disc assembly for the Caparo VWR kit, many will probably know Im not a huge fan for no there reason than the fact that when they arrived they were very hyped as being able to cope on track and win races.....they can't....in my very humble opinion they need to be floating at that diameter - theres been some failures which can happen to any supplier but things get hot in races and the forces involved in heat expansion are relentless....you need to manage heat and expansion to have reliability
spot the missing rotor......this is a VWR bell with rotors in numerous pieces in the kitty litter at Snetterton, it took out quite a bit of expensive kit when it exited stage left
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F76171EA9-4230-4FBB-95A5-31441C2A655D_zpsfuw2sgdg.jpg&hash=119b56215d50e89328d31043d8ba21faff317a9a)
The bell is then added, its lightened on the front face and we also machine the rear of the bell to provide front face cooling, the mounting system is the same as on a GT car and the mods we do to the back of the bell are straight from a LMS car so whilst looking like a normal bell theres quite a bit of thought gone into it.
Without this sounding like an advert these disc assemblies are the same offset as the previous VW Caparo setup....so if you are fed up with warped rotors then I can supply you some road friendly versions of these assemblies in grooved or drilled
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F85C143A9-5C6F-4674-B85A-F0E01CB6DD47_zpscejsp9vc.jpg&hash=84851021a78222a2874f9f32ae96d78c949306c0)
If you've ever wondered what floating or fully floating means then hopefully the pics that follow will help explain, we need to manage heat and expansion we need to mount the rotors to the bell in a manner that allows cooling, radial float and axial float. So we use these Bobbins......
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2FAA43E953-7059-4891-8CC6-88F90CFA993A_zpspvhpvoyj.jpg&hash=88672244b16a2f62ba1bd53e9d72947ea4dd95cd)
They insert into the slots on the bell, they're clever in that they slide within the slots so are unconstrained radially but are also taller than the thickness of the bell....this means that we can dial in about 0.2mm of axial float so that in the very most arduous of service they can find their own centre in the caliper. The top hat section stops them from falling to pieces
So heres the bobbin in the slot,
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F0FBEA39F-C84C-4DEC-9D7F-BFC520C830EB_zpsqozq1pu4.jpg&hash=0b2cfb01ac28786a80de64ca30a7641bcfdea38f)
Repeat 12 times bolt it all together in a sensible tightening order and you have an assembly!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F19ADE663-AF88-4A51-832B-7565E5F276F4_zps251q0sl1.jpg&hash=5a8108f333289f370fd044e71fdd298f4bc5d6ef)
For road use we add some bobbin springs because as they are supplied to the race teams they're fookin noisy and rattle like crazy.....this we like, things rattling means that all is good generally its one of the first checks we do.
The first TTRS kits we did were like this and probably looking back a little too hard core for road use - only one person didn't moan and that was one Mr Jonny Cocker - funny that!
We ended up having our own Bobbin springs made right here in Rochdale, i didn't know it but Rochdale is the spring manufacturing capital of the country I've since found out and and 3000 small springs turned up minimum order!
The bobbin spring put the assembly in tension but allow expansion and thats how all the RS4/TTRS kits are made, a lot of guys on here have the TT kit on the Mk5//6 - its manufactured with all the above principles, the bell machining and fixing mechanism......
So here you go.....too busy to jerk about any more for now but I'll get some pics up of the carriers and the calipers and chat through pads over the next couple of days
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F4E159418-741C-4A9F-8849-8C8EB6804141_zpsulha7crw.jpg&hash=32b6248f0b7817f60dfcf589719d5c6f58e197d5)
Heat temp paint? Can you explain that please? I presume its some sort of thermo-sensitive paint, rather than to stop them rusting. :signLOL:
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F4E159418-741C-4A9F-8849-8C8EB6804141_zpsulha7crw.jpg&hash=32b6248f0b7817f60dfcf589719d5c6f58e197d5)
Heat temp paint? Can you explain that please? I presume its some sort of thermo-sensitive paint, rather than to stop them rusting. :signLOL:
Having a guess, I'm gonna say that the red, orange green indicates the direction that the brake disc must be fitted (to each side of car). Traffic light system to show what way it is coming to a stop?
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Nah..dead easy....
The green changes to white when it hits 430 degree
Orange to brown at 560 degree
Red goes to white at new rotor time which is 610 degrees
We're looking in testing to get the Orange to turn about 50%
You won't see the orange paint on proper carbon carbon Le Man brakes as it delaminates the rotors
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Nah..dead easy....
The green changes to white when it hits 430 degree
Orange to brown at 560 degree
Red goes to white at new rotor time which is 610 degrees
We're looking in testing to get the Orange to turn about 50%
You won't see the orange paint on proper carbon carbon Le Man brakes as it delaminates the rotors
Cool. :happy2:
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well heres hoping so!
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What are the disc dimensions? :notworthy:
And when is the rest of the p0rn coming? It's like seeing pu$$y - but without the t!tties or the boat race! :evilgrin:
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Hi Sean - good to see you back its a 362x32mm. Its designed for a short race so avoids the weight of a heavier duty 36mm BTCC stylee rotor, that said the package has done two endurance races totalling 36 hours one in Dubai with some challenging ambients and the other at Mugello. The bell design is worth as much as 140 degrees over an OEM rotor and a couple of teams are running them without any augmented cooling at all which I think is the designs biggest compliment...
Sooooo......Calipers
So generally for motorsport purposes stuff just needs to work, you won't find K-Sport, XYZ, Hi Spec or other anodised pacific rim items. Theres been a general attitude change about the VWR Cup recently, technically you could still turn up in a privateer Mk1 Rocco or a Mk3 Golf GTI and race but for the last three years or so maybe even longer its been generally moving along to a significantly better funded and more competitive race, theres some significant sums of money being spent which in some ways was inevitable but also a little sad. Theres a big shift this year to Sciroccos which represents a bundle of cash as a donor vehicle in its own right. The TV coverage is welcomed by many but brings its own pressure amongst the builders to succeed....
So we use the CP5060 Caliper, its a six potter with dimensions to take the 3894 pad which is very popular and is also the pad shape for BTCC this year, the pads are relatively affordable ranging from £100 plug and play 1 race specials to over £600 more on pads later...
Ok so the caliper gets no paint just an anodised finish, no dust seals, no anti rattle clips. Its very accurately machined and is designed to be very rigid even though its two piece, piston sizes are a very good match for a 23.8mm master cylinder but thats fairly incidental as all the guys are running pedal boxes from either Tilton or if they have too much money AP.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F642B6292-BF03-4A75-BD95-5D8D561A376E_zpsxbcwrsnq.jpg&hash=a6a630d7bf3c282a15a3b9a258ff0606461d2cd5)
You can see from the pic that the small piston is indeed quite small - this is about pedal feel the small piston will deploy furthest for a given system pressure so will reward the driver with good bite and responsiveness, the power for the big stops is available from the 2 & 3 pistons even though as soon as the pedal is moved they're in the game too - the sizes arent just guessed at they are designed so that over the cause of the race you don't get pad tapering.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2FAB0B94C5-50EE-4A1F-963B-9316DAADBACC_zpsdkwslvvg.jpg&hash=3872d61d3da196ebfcf4459ceec431fb0d5a3676)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F1DFD70CF-3761-40BD-82E4-7021C71CF67F_zpsddbkwjzt.jpg&hash=28ce35970cd242fd2e7ba7d42da7a4be21cd2517)
So the calipers are available in leading or trailing config - the smallest piston has to "see" the disc first on rotation, the calipers are also available with stainless pistons but not many guys spend the extra £100 with these being around £600 a corner anyway. They get checked over to make sure the caliper is in the right box and then the temperature strip is applied, the strips arent necessarily calibrated but they are accurately made in respect to each other....so its easy to check on either caliper to see if the marks are the same to see if you've got a hot side.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F173B5316-F510-48CF-B5B7-9E05D2E383AB_zpsxrhw58ph.jpg&hash=1b09433d37975b1cf1ec138064b10217e851d333)
Its a Pro5000 caliper which means that its a fairly common stock item for AP which they manufacture in good numbers, unfortunately stock is always an issue with AP currently...its been a real challenge to make sure we have all the orders fulfilled but we got there in the end.
Pads and bracketry next when I get a min......
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I like the idea of the heat paint on the disc. Would be great to try it on OEM discs at a trackday so you can make an accurate decision on the pad required.
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In the latest craze of brake upgrades, these make most things look pathetic. As for my R20 front brake upgrade... :sad1:
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Some good info there! And those brakes :happy2:
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So we use these Bobbins......
Used in F1 these.
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Thanks for your help on the new Disc set up Dave :happy2:
Looking forward to getting these on :driver:
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Thanks for your help on the new Disc set up Dave :happy2:
Looking forward to getting these on :driver:
:grin: get to give these some abuse in 3 weeks :driver:
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Thanks for your help on the new Disc set up Dave :happy2:
Looking forward to getting these on :driver:
:grin: get to give these some abuse in 3 weeks :driver:
Yes Mike should be good and well over due, no TrackDays for me since August last year :sad1:
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Spotted these at the anodisers on Friday, I know they are CP5555 bodies but it'll be where the CP5060s get anodised too
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fv248%2FBlAck0ut%2FPhoto02-05-2014110909am_zps378c598e.jpg&hash=a0015d955e365f8d5f8c9a15e1e8070e8ce3ed07)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fv248%2FBlAck0ut%2FPhoto02-05-2014110915am_zps85aa6dc9.jpg&hash=e0437ed107cd797e92a445585743e6e40e45f867)
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I had chance to give the new rotars a good hammering yesterday Silverstone :driver:
Great bit of kit and so smooth under heavy braking,
I should of fitted floating discs when I got the kit 3 years ago !
Would of saved me a packet in the long run,
Great Service thanks Dave
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi601.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt94%2FNeilGti%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F2014-05%2F16A1D344-7295-4447-A30C-CC1FBF9F2664_zpspcorntdf.jpg&hash=356c7538c437fdb99d9d33901ca96813244d5f20) (http://s601.photobucket.com/user/NeilGti/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/16A1D344-7295-4447-A30C-CC1FBF9F2664_zpspcorntdf.jpg.html)
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They look sweet !!