MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: csrigo on May 30, 2018, 01:35:49 pm
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Hi folks just bought some DB9 brakes from AKS and just want to know what minimum spacers I'm need to run these....im going to be keeping my pescaras.
I'll be running the TTS 340mm disks
I know people say they are the same as the ttrs variants but I've also read the db9 items require more spacing...ive tried having a quick look on here but I'm pressed for time so just wanted to see if anyone has a definitive for me...cheers in advance for any help/info.
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You'll need 12mm With the 340mm discs.
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You'll need 12mm With the 340mm discs.
Cheers mate nice one. I ordered 15mm before seeing this.. i'll be dropping to 12s tho... i noticed u upgraded to 362 2 piece and cut it down to 8mm...looks minted..may go this route further down the line.
Cheers for the help
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Brakes came this afternoon...got them on with some sun still to spare. Will stick some of my pics up ones photobucket or whatever is working.
Millions of room well no need for 15mm spacers...12s getn ordered....not liking the stance just now and the rubbing is happening at some turns...and thats me raised my coiloverss another 5mm..will try stiffining it more at the front to forgo raising yet again but will prob need to happen.
Brakes look good tho
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Is it rubbing on the arch liner screw? A lot of folk cut that tang off or fold it flat.
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Is it rubbing on the arch liner screw? A lot of folk cut that tang off or fold it flat.
No not rubbing on that i got rid of that as soon as the coilovers went on moons ago however it is still rubbing badly on the rest of the arch, i had to raise it again today and up the dampening...still no good.
My 12mms come tmoro im not holding out these will make much difference...im genuinly rethinking these shld have researched more before buying but been a hectic week. I cooked my old brakes at knockhill Monday night to the point of no return.
If the reyland ap330mm kit fits under pescaras with no spacers these will be for sale
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Update for anybody following this or interested.
12mm spacers are feckn close but there is clearance....tight tho. I fitted them leaving it at the same height as yesterday...a little bit better.
Ive raised them slightly again and i will be doing my long drive home tnite so will have a better idea. I know its only 6mm difference total across both wheels from 15s to 12s but even looks better.
I will stick some pics up tmoro. Brakes look and work amazing must be said. Running mintax1155s. I have bedded them in as per procedure and they do seem good..not tracked or put under heavy use so cant review properly yet.
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Had a decent length journey home over a combo of a and b roads....Meh 12s still causing scuffing tho not as bad, the only solution is to raise the coilovers yet again FS..turning my dampening down as well once raised cos its absolutely solid too much for crap scottish roads.
Brakes are great but due to the spacers required no use for anyone wanting decent lows on their car that want to use it on track or potholed/bumpy roads imo.
Also havent got my alignment/geometry set up yet to compensate for the spacers/height adjust obv because im not yet decided on the final ride height required but the understeer and torque steer with these spacers on in the wet is shockingly bad.
Does anyone know if the reyland kit requires spacers under pescaras and if so what size?
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Reyland have a 330mm AP kit which they claim works with OE wheels, presumably without spacers. A different set of wheels like TD 1.2 / Neuspeed / OZ Allegerita will however have a different internal spoke profile, which in combination with their typical ET45, will allow you to run with minimal or no spacers. All quite an expensive palaver and if you want to keep the OEM look with Pescara, then there is also the option of using the wider SRS Tech wings.
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Reyland have a 330mm AP kit which they claim works with OE wheels, presumably without spacers. A different set of wheels like TD 1.2 / Neuspeed / OZ Allegerita will however have a different internal spoke profile, which in combination with their typical ET45, will allow you to run with minimal or no spacers. All quite an expensive palaver and if you want to keep the OEM look with Pescara, then there is also the option of using the wider SRS Tech wings.
Cheers mate. Yeah I seen that on their website but it's doesn't state spacers arent required just that they will fit under an 18" wheel...im assuming 18" monzas. I'm definitely wanting to keep the pescaras.
You are right tho mate a bit of a palava but it's my own fault tbh I rushed in which isn't like me. I've had some time today to scroll through the forum and try and research a bit more.
I need to compromise somewhere just need to sus out what I want more...and as it stands just now the wheel bling can take the hit...is anybody on here running the ap330mm setup that can give me a definitive on them under pescaras? Might even just go down the R32 route which I shldve just done the first time pfft lol.
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Presume you’ve done the arch liner screw mod already? More neg camber via SP balljoints or top mounts might also help.
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Presume you’ve done the arch liner screw mod already? More neg camber via SP balljoints or top mounts might also help.
Yes mate done the arch mod when coilovers went on. I have a set of top mount adjusters sitting ive never used may need to fit them just to give me that little bit extra..same line of thinking... i have a compromise now for height/scrubbing....not the biggest fan totally different look to the car..brakes look good but i need maybe 10s on the back to square it a bit and will also have to raise the rear to compensate...rear inner arch is deceiving not a lot to play with...for lows
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Do you know what caliper model the Reyland kit supplies?
AP Racing provide a wheel clearance template on their site for the MK5 6 pot kit, in the downloads tab - https://www.apracing.com/product_details/performance_upgrades/factory_big_brake_kits/vw/golf_mk5/mk6_and_scirocco_mk3-gti/tdi-front_6_piston_kit_cp5570-1015.aspx
I feel your pain. I did this some years ago on a Corrado with an AP 330mm kit, which was quite a faff to fit. A change of wheels and ball joint grinding was required.
Since that experience, I now prefer to make parts fit the car rather than making the car fit the parts, so I opted for the 340mm Clubsport S setup instead of 4-6 pot kits.
Probably not the same level of repeatability and fade resistance as your DB9 setup, but it works well enough on the road. I reckon the CS S discs could stand up to track work, but you'd probably need some stickier pads. This setup fits behind Pesceras with room to spare. No spacers required :happy2:
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Do you know what caliper model the Reyland kit supplies?
AP Racing provide a wheel clearance template on their site for the MK5 6 pot kit, in the downloads tab - https://www.apracing.com/product_details/performance_upgrades/factory_big_brake_kits/vw/golf_mk5/mk6_and_scirocco_mk3-gti/tdi-front_6_piston_kit_cp5570-1015.aspx
I feel your pain. I did this some years ago on a Corrado with an AP 330mm kit, which was quite a faff to fit. A change of wheels and ball joint grinding was required.
Since that experience, I now prefer to make parts fit the car rather than making the car fit the parts, so I opted for the 340mm Clubsport S setup instead of 4-6 pot kits.
Probably not the same level of repeatability and fade resistance as your DB9 setup, but it works well enough on the road. I reckon the CS S discs could stand up to track work, but you'd probably need some stickier pads. This setup fits behind Pesceras with room to spare. No spacers required :happy2:
Cheers mate thanks for that very handy link I think I will be doing some measurements and contacting AP about the CP9200 calipers (as advertised on reyland site).
Lol I had a couple of low corrados myself back in the day...loved they cars would have another one ..and yeah some of the things you did back then to get the car how u wanted it looking/sounding was wild thinking back lol
To be fair I would have been more than happy with the CS S setup you have as have read good things and your defo right what your saying I hate having to modify the setup to such a degree just because of the brakes..cannot stand spacers, never have...again my fault tho. Maybe will only do 3 track days a year at knockhill but it does pound your brakes around there.
On a side note the brakes are immense both in terms of performance and looks (do not like the Aston logo tho bit cheesy for me tbh)...again not tracked them yet tho.
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Do you know what caliper model the Reyland kit supplies?
AP Racing provide a wheel clearance template on their site for the MK5 6 pot kit, in the downloads tab - https://www.apracing.com/product_details/performance_upgrades/factory_big_brake_kits/vw/golf_mk5/mk6_and_scirocco_mk3-gti/tdi-front_6_piston_kit_cp5570-1015.aspx
I feel your pain. I did this some years ago on a Corrado with an AP 330mm kit, which was quite a faff to fit. A change of wheels and ball joint grinding was required.
Since that experience, I now prefer to make parts fit the car rather than making the car fit the parts, so I opted for the 340mm Clubsport S setup instead of 4-6 pot kits.
Probably not the same level of repeatability and fade resistance as your DB9 setup, but it works well enough on the road. I reckon the CS S discs could stand up to track work, but you'd probably need some stickier pads. This setup fits behind Pesceras with room to spare. No spacers required :happy2:
Cheers mate thanks for that very handy link I think I will be doing some measurements and contacting AP about the CP9200 calipers (as advertised on reyland site).
Lol I had a couple of low corrados myself back in the day...loved they cars would have another one ..and yeah some of the things you did back then to get the car how u wanted it looking/sounding was wild thinking back lol
To be fair I would have been more than happy with the CS S setup you have as have read good things and your defo right what your saying I hate having to modify the setup to such a degree just because of the brakes..cannot stand spacers, never have...again my fault tho. Maybe will only do 3 track days a year at knockhill but it does pound your brakes around there.
On a side note the brakes are immense both in terms of performance and looks (do not like the Aston logo tho bit cheesy for me tbh)...again not tracked them yet tho.
The wheel clearance is dependant on the disc offset among other things, but this technical drawing might help you determine the clearance of the CP9200 - https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiEku20xsTbAhWFOcAKHZ45AMkQFggoMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apracing.com%2Fproduct_details%2Fperformance_upgrades%2Froad_and_aftermarket_brake_calipers%2F4_piston_calipers%2Fcp9200-forged_front-152mm_mounting_ctrs.aspx&usg=AOvVaw0TiUicd_UlARwYHFsm6Wh5
It's very similar to the CP5200 I ran on the Corrado, which isn't a massive caliper, so you might be in luck :happy2: My Corrado was a bit of a beast because it had a Garret GT35R turbo strapped to it, so it needed some brakes! The CP5200 on 330mm AP groove discs with Pagid RS15 pads was sublime. Really, really nice setup :happy2: I got 60K out of the AP discs, worn way past their wear limit and still didn't fade or warp!
The only reason I got rid of the Corrado was because I just couldn't get any parts for it! Either obsolete or on 1 - 6 month back order!
I learned a lot on that car, especially with spacers, wheel weights and offsets, scrub radius and roll centres. In short, the factory get all of that right, so I've since avoided going too low and absolutely avoided spacers!
The CS S setup has some nice usable stopping power and I didn't really notice the increased weight. When you already have silly heavy 12Kg Pesceras, a bit extra in brake weight makes no odds really :grin:
I bet they are! They look the bizz with the J hook discs :happy2: Shame they don't fit without spacers!
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Do you know what caliper model the Reyland kit supplies?
AP Racing provide a wheel clearance template on their site for the MK5 6 pot kit, in the downloads tab - https://www.apracing.com/product_details/performance_upgrades/factory_big_brake_kits/vw/golf_mk5/mk6_and_scirocco_mk3-gti/tdi-front_6_piston_kit_cp5570-1015.aspx
I feel your pain. I did this some years ago on a Corrado with an AP 330mm kit, which was quite a faff to fit. A change of wheels and ball joint grinding was required.
Since that experience, I now prefer to make parts fit the car rather than making the car fit the parts, so I opted for the 340mm Clubsport S setup instead of 4-6 pot kits.
Probably not the same level of repeatability and fade resistance as your DB9 setup, but it works well enough on the road. I reckon the CS S discs could stand up to track work, but you'd probably need some stickier pads. This setup fits behind Pesceras with room to spare. No spacers required :happy2:
Cheers mate thanks for that very handy link I think I will be doing some measurements and contacting AP about the CP9200 calipers (as advertised on reyland site).
Lol I had a couple of low corrados myself back in the day...loved they cars would have another one ..and yeah some of the things you did back then to get the car how u wanted it looking/sounding was wild thinking back lol
To be fair I would have been more than happy with the CS S setup you have as have read good things and your defo right what your saying I hate having to modify the setup to such a degree just because of the brakes..cannot stand spacers, never have...again my fault tho. Maybe will only do 3 track days a year at knockhill but it does pound your brakes around there.
On a side note the brakes are immense both in terms of performance and looks (do not like the Aston logo tho bit cheesy for me tbh)...again not tracked them yet tho.
The wheel clearance is dependant on the disc offset among other things, but this technical drawing might help you determine the clearance of the CP9200 - https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiEku20xsTbAhWFOcAKHZ45AMkQFggoMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apracing.com%2Fproduct_details%2Fperformance_upgrades%2Froad_and_aftermarket_brake_calipers%2F4_piston_calipers%2Fcp9200-forged_front-152mm_mounting_ctrs.aspx&usg=AOvVaw0TiUicd_UlARwYHFsm6Wh5
It's very similar to the CP5200 I ran on the Corrado, which isn't a massive caliper, so you might be in luck :happy2: My Corrado was a bit of a beast because it had a Garret GT35R turbo strapped to it, so it needed some brakes! The CP5200 on 330mm AP groove discs with Pagid RS15 pads was sublime. Really, really nice setup :happy2: I got 60K out of the AP discs, worn way past their wear limit and still didn't fade or warp!
The only reason I got rid of the Corrado was because I just couldn't get any parts for it! Either obsolete or on 1 - 6 month back order!
I learned a lot on that car, especially with spacers, wheel weights and offsets, scrub radius and roll centres. In short, the factory get all of that right, so I've since avoided going too low and absolutely avoided spacers!
The CS S setup has some nice usable stopping power and I didn't really notice the increased weight. When you already have silly heavy 12Kg Pesceras, a bit extra in brake weight makes no odds really :grin:
I bet they are! They look the bizz with the J hook discs :happy2: Shame they don't fit without spacers!
Again cheers :happy2: I'm off today so will attempt to work out the clearances and see what I can come up with.
It's weird u mention the corrados I was talking about them the other day with my mate...ooft so you went deep and fitted the gt35r on the VR6 must have been rapid! Lol it's funny VR6s are basically what I was known for having (golfs included) but I never went the turbo route which was always the dream...mustve sounded tremendous love the VRs... I did drop a 1.8T (agu) in a 2.0l rado i had which was nippy in it's day.. had an old school Jabba map on it and an intercooler off an old merc van...cldve done with your brake setup lol.
Wish I kept the vr6s they go for stupid money now, back then loads of us locally had them cutting about....had a mulberry golf VR6 high line which was my baby for years..loved it.
Going to stick these brakes up for sale soon if anyone is interested..will post in the for sale section but can pm me if interested.
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Here's another potential issue...the 12mm spacers are too close for my liking...its is definitely the minimum to run the car however the spacing is no good for a track day...especially in this weather.
Im thinking about trying the brakes out at knockhill on friday but i think im going to need to stick the 15mm spacers on for safety...i dont know how much caliper flex if any there is with these under pressure and also how significant thermo expansion is but im assuming it would caise them to collide(alloys included)?
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Monitor the calipers for scuff marks. There is generally a recommended minimum clearance but a hard track day is as good a test as any!
Any joy with the AP Racing route? I reckon the CP5200/9200 might need smaller spacers and be just as powerful!
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Monitor the calipers for scuff marks. There is generally a recommended minimum clearance but a hard track day is as good a test as any!
Any joy with the AP Racing route? I reckon the CP5200/9200 might need smaller spacers and be just as powerful!
Cheers mate, yeah I have been checking constantly as I am conscious of it and there are no scuff marks as yet so I am assuming all good for normal driving...that's with some bad roads as well. Your right tho that a track day would test it out...just need the weather back don't even bother with it on track in the wet.
Tbh I haven't looked much further into the AP calipers as yet, I've concentrated setting up the car to a ride height that doesn't scuff but still sits close to how I like it. I think I have found a nice compromise just now, may stick some before and after pics up on my own page for comparison and people can see the difference with and without spacers and what adjustments I've had to make to run bigger brakes. I know this won't be the same for all as there are many variables in suspension setup and of course is all a matter of opinion/perspective.
@Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) I will be tracking it soon to see how bad these spacers effect the handling and that will determine how quick I make the change....may go your CS S setup tbh save any hassle.
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Can't complain about the CS S setup, even with the standard GTI pads. VW do CS S specific pads which are over double the price, but not sure how good or bad they are.
The only negative of this setup is the weight, but on the road with decent dampers, the increase is barely noticeable :smiley: A slight softening of the bite at the top of the pedal, but otherwise no complaints :happy2: And being OEM, it's all silent, well, apart from a faint clicking noise from the drilled discs but that's only noticeable when driving alongside a wall or something.