MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: RedRobin on February 19, 2009, 05:44:48 pm
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When I first had my Mk5 GTI with DSG, I was very apprehensive about the small plastic paddles which are somewhat hidden from view when driving. I used to mostly use the box in only two gears - D and S, driving mostly in D and just popping in and out of S-mode for overtakes and twisties. I didn't, and still don't, like the feel of nudging the floor stick in a tiptronic fashion so I eventually started using the paddles. To my surprise I found them perfectly placed when holding the steering wheel and I also liked their very contoured and ribbed feel. Yes, we are still talking about a car product here.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2Fpaddle_stockJPG.jpg&hash=ca8273b7a529e33f6a0c903b8f6a22b251fe9087)
I was aware of some people's criticisms of the paddles as feeling like a Playstation but I never found that, and most of such criticism comes from those who much prefer to drive conventional manual gearboxes. The stock paddles do have a soft click sound but the gear selection is still instant and feels direct.
One problem I found was occasional situations such as on a roundabout when the hands weren't still exactly where the small paddles were when turning the wheel. The problem is usually from wanting to change into 2nd from 1st but there are always lots of workaround options with the DSG box of tricks such as nudging the floor stick or starting off in D or S and letting the system find 2nd gear for you before going into full Manual mode and continuing. With this problem in mind I wondered, back in 2006, whether any aftermarket paddle extensions were available but there weren't. TTSroadsport helped me at the time to investigate whether Audi ones would fit the Mk5 Golf but they don't. Some rare versions of the late Mk4 GTI's in France had DSG but their paddles wouldn't fit either. So I gave up and got familiar with the stock paddles and continued to enjoy using them.
Then suddenly there was a post on the Tyresmoke forum about some carbonfibre ones made by TID and fitted to a Mk5 GTI Edition 30.
Although they looked both very cool (I love carbonfibre!) and very oem, I wasn't convinced. But then a colleague on GolfGTI.co.uk forum also got some and both were independently reporting how pleased they were with them. So, in learning that they were available from my friends TTSroadsport, I had a chat with Dave and a pair were immediately sent.
The parcel arrived the next day and on opening it I was immediately amazed at their quality. I had assumed that they might be thin and possibly flimsy but the carbonfibre is 4mm thick and utterly rigid.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2Fpaddle_bothsidesJPG.jpg&hash=9eb62e5fcb3a88174d5a893b01dc2f94181fcc48)
Not only are they rigid but they are very securely bolted to a mount which is perfectly shaped to fit onto the contours of the stock paddles. A lot of thought and effort has gone into their design. I had to spend the morning at home but found that I spent the whole time with one of these paddles clutched in my hand and my fingers constantly exploring and testing for any weak spots - None were found.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2Fpaddle_mouldingJPG.jpg&hash=02aaadb364806cd4b2f0458b76c05faa6d119031)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2Fpaddle_backJPG.jpg&hash=9a8df60440bc7ef3a78a4c51579761f24b8bf40a)
I quickly became aware of a long slightly raised ridge and realised it was there for a purpose. So far I just wasn't succeeding in finding any faults but the proof of the pudding is always in the eating, so it was time to install them and then go for a test drive.
I removed the manufacturer's labels whilst cursing the strength of modern adhesive but knowing that soon after I would ironically be hoping that the adhesive tape for fixing them on my car had extreme strength! Before adding the tape I offered the new paddles up to the stock ones and was very pleased to see how well they would fit and how oem they would look. The enclosed instructions suggest either using the supplied tape or using a sealant/glue. I decided to start off at least with the tape and couldn't help noticing the letters VBH printed - That Vicky gets herself everywhere in the world of motorsport.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2Fpaddle_tapeJPG.jpg&hash=fb048337c6006b97cd8c3c5fe423295bbd0239d1)
The instructions suggest "applying heat to double sided tape" - What with!? I wasn't about to set fire to my brand new carbonfibre paddleshifters! I just rubbed the tape hard and thought of VBH. Well, whatever happens I know that Plan B will involve glue. I then noticed that my stock paddles were beginning to wear and show white - Not a good standard after only 50,000 miles, Mr Volkswagen!
Once on I noticed how much further away from the back of the wheel and closer to the stalks they were and I was a bit concerned. Too late now, time to try them out. Just sat in the car with no engine running they felt awkward but fortunately reassuringly very firm and rigid.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2Fpaddle_sideJPG.jpg&hash=e3e605bbd05b287cb9ee90634f7954ccc9e60e0d)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2FcockpitJPG.jpg&hash=7469f007324b6ef47daf7701262a808be704a73e)
I needed some more Meg's Detailer so decided to go to my nearest stockist about 30 miles away, especially as it was a gloriously sunny day and would involve all sorts of roads. Once through town and out of D-mode I immediately found that the new paddles were very comfortable and a real pleasure to touch. The ridge makes perfect sense and it's a case of driving more with your finger tips than pads.
[Sorry for poor quality pic]:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2Fpaddle_ridgeJPG.jpg&hash=bd397b9b869660765cb0e3d7f42d04d23de2e454)
Although my hands are nearly always in the 'quarter-to-three' position which the GTI steering wheel sensibly urges you to adopt, I found that the extended paddles are easier to find. What really surprises me while driving is that there is no longer any click when shifting and the result is a much smoother gear shift sensation. The carbonfibre maintains a perfect temperature and I would advise very strongly indeed against an aluminium version as the material can get either sizzling hot or frostbite cold.
I ended up buying rather more Meg's cleaning products than I intended but the round trip of 60 miles was a real joy and I even had the opportunity to play with a Porsche on the way home - Those carbonfibre paddleshifters made me feel I was driving a Ferrari!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2FfingersJPG.jpg&hash=41e00ec509bbc2a7bb193db1005bfe8800c07159)
I'm now used to the paddleshifters and overall I much prefer them to the stock paddles. However, the lower extensions don't action the gearshifts as superbly as the upper extensions do - The leverage seems to be weaker. I hasten to add that they are well and truly stuck on and integrated with the stock paddles and so there is no weakness whatsoever in their installation. The key to using them is to gently pull on the ridge as if beginning to close your palms. They are much more at your fingertips than the stock ones - The connection between brain decision and finger action is faster.
A couple of times I have unintentionally changed gear when I wanted to use the signal indicator stalk, but now I know, I'm learning quickly to avoid doing that - It's just a matter of adapting one's habits.
One thing that I really, really cannot understand is that the actual gearshifts themselves feel very noticeably smoother and seamless with the new paddles.
They are exclusively available in the UK from TTSroadsport - 01234 855 555 - and I have no hesitation in very highly recommending this carbonfibre version. You don't need these paddleshift extensions but like all good mods, it takes you that extra mile.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2Fpaddles_frontJPG.jpg&hash=c7b91e7a1b6050d017fecfa5318ea57dd6a817ab)
:happy2: 8) :happy2:
Forum member Mandy can usually get alternative paddleshifter extensions for around £25, which is considerably cheaper than my TIDs. But mine were the only option available back in early 2009.
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they look great, nice write up :happy2:
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One thing that I really, really cannot understand is that the actual gearshifts themselves feel very noticeably smoother and seamless with the new paddles.
I have noticed on my car that the faster you hit the micro switch the faster and more responsive the change.. Maybe it has a pressure sensor too??
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One thing that I really, really cannot understand is that the actual gearshifts themselves feel very noticeably smoother and seamless with the new paddles.
I have noticed on my car that the faster you hit the micro switch the faster and more responsive the change.. Maybe it has a pressure sensor too??
....That's really interesting - I was thinking it was just a placebo effect but when I first started using these paddle extensions I felt my changes were happening faster. If it is so it'll also be possibly because the extra leverage actions the micro switch more sharply.
Do you have oem or paddle extensions?
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Oem and fast fingers lol..
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Oem and fast fingers lol..
....Is that what you tell all the girlies?
I was going to say that if anyone is thinking of these extensions and goes on trackdays wearing fairly thick gloves, best to check gloved finger clearance before buying and installing. It'll be tight unless you've removed the indicator stalks etc.
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Oem and fast fingers lol..
....Is that what you tell all the girlies?
I was going to say that if anyone is thinking of these extensions and goes on trackdays wearing fairly thick gloves, best to check gloved finger clearance before buying and installing. It'll be tight unless you've removed the indicator stalks etc.
Haha.. No comment..
I was speaking to mark about trying to get the Cupra Cup car steering wheel and paddles on mine, looks awesome!
Something more like this out of the Scirocco 24 car..
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fo304%2Fjonnnny28%2FVolkswagen_Scirocco_GT24_Concept_3.jpg&hash=fd0b03b9b6c64bce07d20c917fc26b0d79c166cb)
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^^^^
That's uber-cooool!! VERY stylish, Jonny.
I'm assuming you been around the 'other' garage and seen all those Cupra's etc. Do you want me to distract Mark while you do a swifty? :evilgrin:
Did you see the red DSG GTI up at VWR that looks like a normal road car but is built for a 'handicapped' driver? I'm sure Mark could help you out with something special in that department.
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^^^^
That's uber-cooool!! VERY stylish, Jonny.
I'm assuming you been around the 'other' garage and seen all those Cupra's etc. Do you want me to distract Mark while you do a swifty? :evilgrin:
Did you see the red DSG GTI up at VWR that looks like a normal road car but is built for a 'handicapped' driver? I'm sure Mark could help you out with something special in that department.
Looks slick doesn't it..
Ah cool, yeah been into the other place, lots of nice bits in there haha..
Ok well maybes there would be something that we can do on that then, would be a nice touch I though! Not really sure about getting rid of the air bag though.. hmm..
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that red one in the corner is great as it has 2 gas pedals and is LHD very cool setup
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2FVWRday003.jpg&hash=9ede7b5346b05f7f0d8fc2dc24c96b10449f2ca1)
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^^^^
That's the one for the 'handicapped' driver. I use the term with reservations and with great respect for such still having the determination to race cars.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FHandicap.jpg&hash=3d3f0b530d6ffc7eff729527fe31755404865276)
Did you have a good day at VWR, Mat?
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did i :driver: i am in love :evilgrin: and its red :evilgrin:
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I have great safety concerns about extension paddles for the wheel-equipped paddle shifters. In the (heaven forbid) event of accident, the wheel could spin around and one of those things could cause significant injury to your hands or arms. You will notice that "long" paddle shifters are used on vehicles where the paddles are fixed to the steering column box - this is what Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini, et al do. On the Scirocco race car the situation is the same, the paddles are not affixed to the wheel and will not spin around.
On vehicles with the paddles attached to the wheels - VW/Audi/Seat range, Bugatti Veyron, Porsche PDK-equipped cars, the paddles are very small and heavily integrated into the wheel to help avoid injury.
If you track your car at all I would strongly advise against using these, and would advise against using them on the road as well.
Just my tuppenny-worth.
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^^^^
That's the one for the 'handicapped' driver. I use the term with reservations and with great respect for such still having the determination to race cars.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FHandicap.jpg&hash=3d3f0b530d6ffc7eff729527fe31755404865276)
Hey, I know that car!! It's in Votex a fair bit too as they do some of the more routine stuff on it. I can't remember the exact story behind the 2 gas pedals, but it's got something to do with being for when he gets leg fatigue. Nice bit of "out of the box" engineering.
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Raising the gear lever looks very cool there ^^. I wonder if they could do the same to mine!
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I have great safety concerns about extension paddles for the wheel-equipped paddle shifters. In the (heaven forbid) event of accident, the wheel could spin around and one of those things could cause significant injury to your hands or arms. You will notice that "long" paddle shifters are used on vehicles where the paddles are fixed to the steering column box - this is what Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini, et al do. On the Scirocco race car the situation is the same, the paddles are not affixed to the wheel and will not spin around.
On vehicles with the paddles attached to the wheels - VW/Audi/Seat range, Bugatti Veyron, Porsche PDK-equipped cars, the paddles are very small and heavily integrated into the wheel to help avoid injury.
If you track your car at all I would strongly advise against using these, and would advise against using them on the road as well.
Just my tuppenny-worth.
....A very interesting tuppenny-worth!
I'm having difficulty imagining just how such paddles might be damaging but I'm not able to totally disagree with you.
Just thinking aloud about this important safety point: As these paddle extensions are attached by adhesive pads, might they in fact come off relatively easily when subjected to the force of an accident? I'm thinking that although they wouldn't break within their own structure before a human finger would break, their adhesive fixing would break first.
Their fixing is such that they are very strong when pulling towards you (which is the action of their everyday operation) but weak when pushed away from you (which is an action you neither take nor do you travel with your fingers between the wheel and the paddle extensions).
At the moment I'm not convinced you are right but I keep an open mind and I may be wrong. Could you elaborate, please?
:happy2:
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Raising the gear lever looks very cool there ^^. I wonder if they could do the same to mine!
Hmm - interesting thought. Is it a series of switches (which would make it easy) or a physical linkage?
Oh, and RR. Good write up, don't know if they're my cup of tea but I'd be interested in a feel of them - I've only got little hands and the paddles when at the quarter to three postion and thumbs up are only really at my fingertips.
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Raising the gear lever looks very cool there ^^. I wonder if they could do the same to mine!
Hmm - interesting thought. Is it a series of switches (which would make it easy) or a physical linkage?
It is an interesting concept yeah! On my Elise, it has a very high gear lever shaft so that the shift knob is very close to the steering wheel. Really effective in minimising hand movement away from the wheel, and im sure it reduces shift times by a few biliseconds!
I've always felt that the golf gear knob is too low (as are most road cars in comparison to fully prepped race cars obviously), so any chance to raise the gear lever would be welcomed IMO!
Sorry to digress away from this thread topic, i shall shut up now :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :chicken:
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Another superb write up Robin that Im sure I've read before but enjoyed just as much the second time around :wink:
Nearly makes me want a DSG :rolleye:
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Another superb write up Robin that Im sure I've read before but enjoyed just as much the second time around :wink:
....Yes, I'd originally written it on BIALI Motorsport but thought it might be useful here. I didn't bother to rewrite it in the WHY/SOURCE/INSTALLATION etc format.
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Oh, and RR. Good write up, don't know if they're my cup of tea but I'd be interested in a feel of them - I've only got little hands and the paddles when at the quarter to three postion and thumbs up are only really at my fingertips.
....Then make please sure you ask me when we meet sometime in the future and I'll let you have a feel.
[Don't let Nathan know though :evilgrin:]
:happy2:
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Oh, and RR. Good write up, don't know if they're my cup of tea but I'd be interested in a feel of them - I've only got little hands and the paddles when at the quarter to three postion and thumbs up are only really at my fingertips.
....Then make please sure you ask me when we meet sometime in the future and I'll let you have a feel.
[Don't let Nathan know though :evilgrin:]
:happy2:
Been there done that, he's all yours :wink: :rolleye:
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....A very interesting tuppenny-worth!
I'm having difficulty imagining just how such paddles might be damaging but I'm not able to totally disagree with you.
Just thinking aloud about this important safety point: As these paddle extensions are attached by adhesive pads, might they in fact come off relatively easily when subjected to the force of an accident? I'm thinking that although they wouldn't break within their own structure before a human finger would break, their adhesive fixing would break first.
Their fixing is such that they are very strong when pulling towards you (which is the action of their everyday operation) but weak when pushed away from you (which is an action you neither take nor do you travel with your fingers between the wheel and the paddle extensions).
At the moment I'm not convinced you are right but I keep an open mind and I may be wrong. Could you elaborate, please?
:happy2:
If in an accident the driving wheels are made to turn - easily possible in a number of situations - the steering wheel will spin and these extensions could very easily act as a blade (even though they aren't sharp). Remember, in a serious accident, arms/hands/fingers can go into a number of places, not always in a controlled manner.
Whether or not the paddleswould break off on contact with a hand depends on the shear strength of the adhesive, but if the adhesive is strong enough the carbon blades will go through bone (it's unlikely to suffer structural failure). The tensile strength of the adhesive (as you describe) is unlikely to be important.
A number of components in the Golf (indeed, in all modern cars) are designed to fail in a controlled manner, in the case of knobs/buttons through a shearing motion. It's my guess that these paddles are not and the main decision behind choosing the adhesive is "is it strong enough to hold the paddles on securely".
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^^^^
I understand your points and your concerns.
Perhaps the only way to establish whether the paddles' adhesive fixing would fail (as preferred) or not, would be with controlled tests.
The laminated carbon paddles themselves are extremely strong and are unlikely to break easily in the circumstances we are discussing, but lateral forces or forces in some other directions are likely to cause the paddles to fall away. All this is theoretical but based on my experience of fitting them and using them - However, I may be entirely wrong.
I'm afraid it's a risk I'm currently prepared to take as being no more of a risk when driving a Golf GTI Mk5.
The hope is that whereas it's been designed and produced to hold the paddles on securely, it's not welded on.
:happy2:
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I have great safety concerns about extension paddles for the wheel-equipped paddle shifters. In the (heaven forbid) event of accident, the wheel could spin around and one of those things could cause significant injury to your hands or arms. You will notice that "long" paddle shifters are used on vehicles where the paddles are fixed to the steering column box - this is what Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini, et al do. On the Scirocco race car the situation is the same, the paddles are not affixed to the wheel and will not spin around.
On vehicles with the paddles attached to the wheels - VW/Audi/Seat range, Bugatti Veyron, Porsche PDK-equipped cars, the paddles are very small and heavily integrated into the wheel to help avoid injury.
If you track your car at all I would strongly advise against using these, and would advise against using them on the road as well.
Just my tuppenny-worth.
The last thing id be worried about in the event of a prang is my finger nails!!. in a major smash, your hands wont be still on the wheel and the airbags would be my 1st concern and the crumple zones do there job. Either one of those fails it would be good night nursey.
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The last thing id be worried about in the event of a prang is my finger nails!!. in a major smash, your hands wont be still on the wheel and the airbags would be my 1st concern and the crumple zones do there job. Either one of those fails it would be good night nursey.
I know I'm being something of a killjoy here, put it to my engineering background (I deal with high voltages and vehicle testing every day, so safety is priority 1).... say the crumple zones collapse as intended, the airbags deploy, the seatbelt restraint fires (seatbelts are the NUMBER ONE safety device in a car. Airbags and crumple zones help, but their impact on survival is much less than a seatbelt is), so you will survive. But, whilst you're being thrown around, your hand gets caught inside the ring of the wheel. Is that a place where you really want what is effectively a spinning blade? Then instead of a broken hand/wrist to worry about, you've got the possibility of lacerations in your hand or amputation of your fingers to worry about as well.
Anyway, it's just me bing a worrywort I suspect :)
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^^^^
I think that what you describe may indeed happen but isn't every accident different? I'm not convinced the spinning finger chopper is a definite foregone conclusion.
Rightly or wrongly I'm inclined to think positive and take my chances. Afterall, one's life is at risk every time you drive!
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If the air bags go off (which they invariably will in such a violent smash that would shear off the extensions). Then your hands would be blown away from the area anyway!
To force off the extensions there would have to be an impact sooo significant that any part of your hands in the area that is affected would be injured regardless of two bits of carbon fibre.
As Phil has said. I'd have more important things to think about if the collision was violent enough to displace the extensions.
What are the odds going to be anyway? I'll take my life into my hands and risk it for the .000000000000000001% possibility that they turn into mini shurikens! :signLOL:
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Last note on this - I appreciate the odds of catastrophic failure occuring with those extensions are small, I was just raising the point. @Hurdy, I'm not suggesting that the things would fly off shuriken-style and decapitate you, merely that a limb may get trapped within a spinning wheel where they could do some damage. I'd ensure that the shear strength of the adhesive used was low enough such that a sideways force (ie from your hand) would cause them to come off the paddle, rendering them somewhat safer.
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I can see your point of view about a spinning steering wheel in the event of an impact, but I suppose it is like everything else in life, If you think about it too much, you would never do anything or say anything for fear of the impact it may have. :smiley:
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Hmn, come to think of it, I wonder if those paddles can be turned into rough-and-ready shurikens... handy to keep in the car in case of ninja attack:
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Hahaaa
LOL :grin:
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I had to watch that twice. :laugh: :grin:
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why dont we get quality tv like that in this country :mad:
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....
Now we know the truth about what you really do, cmdrfire!
No wonder you're concerned about chopped fingers - No airbags in that machine!
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not sure TC will be too happy you posted full pictures of his car with R32 bumper before he did :signLOL: :evilgrin:
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not sure TC will be too happy you posted full pictures of his car with R32 bumper before he did :signLOL: :evilgrin:
....:signLOL: Classic!
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not sure TC will be too happy you posted full pictures of his car with R32 bumper before he did :signLOL: :evilgrin:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Now thats funny :wink:
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Can you all stop spamming this thread please this is a serious topic. I for one would not like to be maimed by killer carbon paddles.
And in fact i think i have just created a tongue twister killer carbon paddles killer carbon paddles killer carbon paddles killer carbon paddles killer carbon paddles killer carbon paddles killer carbon paddles killer carbon paddles killer carbon paddles (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDaft_stuff%2Fwatchingyou.gif&hash=cfc5eeb535bfbc332cba1f34fd41219b38fbc3b1) :innocent: :laugh:
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I couldn't find a carbon shuriken...
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fninpowisconsin.homestead.com%2FDSC09916_op_800x531.jpg&hash=baf7f117041c8e05cf5194c48c2b788cab0ca2f0)
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.
Forum member Mandy can usually get alternative paddleshifter extensions for around £25, which is considerably cheaper than my TIDs. But mine were the only option available back in early 2009.
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