MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: RedRobin on November 09, 2013, 10:19:55 am
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ATTENTION all you airheads whether you are died blonde or otherwise!....
Personally I have always disliked air rides just as much as I dislike blokes wearing trousers which hang off the bottom of their arses. But now, after seeing my favourite automotive porn reviewer Matt Farah's video I have revised my opinion about air rides (but not about the half mast trousers).
Here you go....
And the gear that makes it all work looks uber funky and must be put on show and not hidden away.
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Ive seen a few of these videos recently, both of which are pedalled by a specific air ride company.... Do you really think that the Co-Founder of Acu-air would be on a video that went to show that the air-ride system was not as good? :popcornsoda:
Give me a totally independent comparison and I will listen.
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have a look at some of the autox things rich,
competition air ride setups have been around for yonks and they do well,
from my point of veiw my cars drove better on air than coils
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Most people buy cheap 150quid coilovers.... No wonder! Put 3k worth of coilovers on a car, the result will be much better than air.
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Suppose it depends what you've drove.
I've had cars with kw v3 on
For me tyre and rim choice make the biggest difference in drive feel
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Most people buy cheap 150quid coilovers.... No wonder! Put 3k worth of coilovers on a car, the result will be much better than air.
They will never be as comfortable.
People mug air off yet haven't driven it, let alone been in a car with it.
RedRobin, so you take your opinion from one guys video? As opposed to people, who have been saying for years "Air is fine for handling" , which gets dismissed... says it all to be honest. Many people are similar to you. :popcornsoda:
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RedRobin, so you take your opinion from one guys video? As opposed to people, who have been saying for years "Air is fine for handling" , which gets dismissed... says it all to be honest. Many people are similar to you. :popcornsoda:
....If you care to re-read my post you will see that I said I had "revised" my opinion about air rides. I'm still not a fan.
But yes, as you ask, without experiencing it directly myself, I take more notice of such a clearly demonstrative video as this than by the written word of guys on forums.
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I know what you said first time bud. :innocent:
You've revised your opinion because some guy you trust (yet ultimately is just the same as anyone on the forum (sharing an opinion), said that was OK - Still not having experienced it yourself, or taking the word of those who HAVE?
Do you see where I'm failing to see the logic there? :chicken:
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I wanna know what exhaust the car had on it, as it sounded lush!
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I know what you said first time bud. :innocent:
You've revised your opinion because some guy you trust (yet ultimately is just the same as anyone on the forum (sharing an opinion), said that was OK - Still not having experienced it yourself, or taking the word of those who HAVE?
Do you see where I'm failing to see the logic there? :chicken:
....You say you "know what I said" - Okay, you can read but you seem to have a problem understanding what I wrote. I'll try and make it simpler for you.
The posted video demonstrates/shows/illustrates how some air ride systems (specifically the one in the video) allow reasonable car handling.
The video demonstrates that some air ride systems allow better handling than many people had realised (me included), hence modifying/revising opinions. The fact that I personally still think that slamming a car right down looks ridiculous means diddlysquat.
I started this thread and posted the video simply because I thought that some people might be interested in how some air ride systems actually allow a car to be driven when in comparison to cars with non air ride suspensions.
So what's your problem?
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I don't have a problem. You are not understanding what I am saying.
My issue (let's not call it problem) is as follows
You (and many other people) assume/think/are told that air ride makes a car handle badly. Whether this is because it's not a typical "coil spring over a damper" arrangement or because often the front roll bars are removed - Whatever the reason, anyone who modifies their cars for "performance" assume air ride handles badly compared to coilovers or uprated springs and dampers - Am I correct so far?
And that now your eyes have been opened, and that "air ride systems allow for better handling than many people have realised (you included") - This is not from first hand experience , but from watching a short video from the /Drive network - Am I correct so far?
However if myself, or another member with air ride would have said "Air ride handles really well" we would have been shot down/not taken seriously/not believed. - Am I correct so far?
I don't mind why you start the thread or discuss it. My problem is that people who have first hand experience, and share that, on a forum are not taken seriously by those who have not had the first hand experience - And when someone who is "well regarded" (or in this case makes video - Matt Farah), if they say "Air ride handles really well" everyone believes them. What makes them different, why do you believe them over anyone else. After all they are just one person sharing their opinion.
Do you see what I'm saying now? :sad1:
Ps I would just like to explain a little...
E-level is an air management platform.
Airlift is a suspension manufacturer (in the same way that KW are)
Once you have set your height the management platform is redundant. and has no effect on the vehicle handling. All the management system does is set the height and , if applicable, adjust the ride height as appropriate.
E-level does adjust your car while driving every 45 seconds and every 5 seconds when stationary, to maintain the "equal ride height" across all 4 corners. It does not adjust spring rates, damping rates, rebound rates, or any other settings such as that.
I have E-level myself and have turned off the RideMonitor setting because I find it irritating to be honest.
However on Paddle valves the car would handle EXACTLY the same.
E-level management (without the actual air suspension units) costs more than pretty much any available coil over on the market.
:happy2:
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Actually. Inflating and deflating the bags does change the "spring" rate
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Yes Rich, I know that!
It does not actively change the spring rate (it changes the air pressure for the purposes of adjusting vehicle ride height, which in effect changes the spring rate). It does not for example pump more air into the left hand side when you turn a right hand side corner and then let the same amount of air out on the other side! (I wonder how good/bad it would be if such a system existed...)
This is done for ride height purposes (as with E-level it is set on ride height sensors) not for handling. Management systems are all about maintaining preset ride heights.
:drool:
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:indifferent:
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The bags there using there are like the old style bag over coil.
Where all you replace is the metal spring for the air sleeve.
In reality it makes very little difference, if anything the air bag bounce less. That method is very crude compared to the bag and shock setups out there, a lot built on bilstien shocks etc.
This debate will go on forever, as there are too many people who haven't tried air first had, I know people who used to say bags are for fags. Till they fit air ride on their cars.
I think the one main reason for not fitting air as a factory optio. Is cost and rreliability. Take a look at range rovers or the audi all road for that.
Ps there's a vid of a 500bhp odd scoob on air used for racing on YouTube too
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:indifferent: x2
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http://vimeo.com/78528697 I'm running full airlift with v2, best thing I've ever bought
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I don't have a problem. You are not understanding what I am saying.
My issue (let's not call it problem) is as follows
You (and many other people) assume/think/are told that air ride makes a car handle badly. Whether this is because .............................
- Am I correct so far?
Do you see what I'm saying now?
....I am very grateful that you took the time and effort to reply so fully. I now understand much more about air rides (though personally it is most definitely not for me!).
Btw, I like two of the photos you submitted for the 2014 calendar.
:happy2: :drinking:
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:indifferent:
:indifferent: x2
....If you guys are so bored by the subject why bother reading and posting in this thread? Expressing your boredom or criticism without qualifying it does nothing but alienate people from you.
I don't like air rides but at least I am open minded and have some respect for those who do.
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Robin - I read it and I'm completely indifferent about it other than it will never, ever appear on a car I own. Along with stretched rubber and other scene sh*t.
That better? :happy2:
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I don't have a problem. You are not understanding what I am saying.
My issue (let's not call it problem) is as follows
You (and many other people) assume/think/are told that air ride makes a car handle badly. Whether this is because .............................
- Am I correct so far?
Do you see what I'm saying now?
....I am very grateful that you took the time and effort to reply so fully. I now understand much more about air rides (though personally it is most definitely not for me!).
Btw, I like two of the photos you submitted for the 2014 calendar.
:happy2: :drinking:
No worries man.
Of course it's not for everyone. I wasn't really a fan of it until I was in a position to try it (and buy it). I probably wouldn't buy it again simply for the cost but the practicality is very very handy.
Hedge - Good for you. Point is pal, we are all enthusiasts and who cares if someone else modifies their car in a different way to you... some may think your car is other "OEM sh*t" but don't say it...we say we personally don't like it but appreciate the work that's gone into it? I hate people in Mk4s who buy a car put 3dsm 005s on it and some coilovers but I'd never mug it off..
And to be fair as RR says if you're not interested in air ride why come in just to moan about those of us who are.. :stupid: :stupid:
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Air is sh*t!!!
/disengage troll mode
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:P :P :P :P
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Airs pract'cool...
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I'm not commenting to dig at anyone, but until you witness air suspension for yourself you cant really judge.
Its so much more comfortable and practical than coils, and i personally think it handles just as well. Accuair done a test, they had that black a4 in the video against a white s4 ( same car) on the best rated coilovers going round a track, and the audi with the air suspension performed just as well as the one with coils.
Its my personal opinion but until you witness it you cant judge.
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I've not experienced air ride in a car but in my 20 tonne, 40' DAF CF the rides sublime :driver:
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Let's not forget the original 'air-ride', the Citroen DS.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Ff%2Ff0%2F1974_Citroen_D-Special_02.jpg%2F800px-1974_Citroen_D-Special_02.jpg&hash=0b425f6eaf78563b9fb9aef470400380900aad2e)
Cool car
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Let's not forget the original 'air-ride', the Citroen DS.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Ff%2Ff0%2F1974_Citroen_D-Special_02.jpg%2F800px-1974_Citroen_D-Special_02.jpg&hash=0b425f6eaf78563b9fb9aef470400380900aad2e)
Cool car
....the only good thing to come out of the country since kissing!
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good find RR! My knowledge in this area is very little!
Paul
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Let's not forget the original 'air-ride', the Citroen DS.
Cool car
Depends if you class oil and nitrogen filled spheres as air. :confused:
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Let's not forget the original 'air-ride', the Citroen DS.
Cool car
Depends if you class oil and nitrogen filled spheres as air. :confused:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydropneumatic_suspension
Airlift will be offering it in 2080 :signLOL:
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Can't wait.
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http://vimeo.com/78528697 I'm running full airlift with v2, best thing I've ever bought
Nice little post makes me want air but from the video, it seems unfair as they did not mention what coilover or equivalent it was getting compared to. Im guessing a air set up would cost 3k+ but I can't imagine a set of 3k coilover performing so poorly against air.