MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: K9 on October 20, 2016, 12:35:07 pm

Title: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: K9 on October 20, 2016, 12:35:07 pm
Changed to a walk kit and one off the 16mm stretch bolts snapped when trying to remove them.

What should i do now? one side walk is now secured with the lonk end bolt and one 16mm bolt to the subframe.

anyone else been in this situation before?
Title: Re: Snapped sunframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: rich83 on October 20, 2016, 01:02:12 pm
Is I snapped one and had to drive it for about 50 miles :-S
Title: Re: Snapped sunframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: K9 on October 20, 2016, 01:48:25 pm
Is I snapped one and had to drive it for about 50 miles :-S
i have been driving for like 3 weeks and ni problems. but it's bugging me
Title: Re: Snapped sunframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: Paradox1 on October 20, 2016, 04:29:40 pm
Is I snapped one and had to drive it for about 50 miles :-S
i have been driving for like 3 weeks and ni problems. but it's bugging me

Id complain to whoever supplied the kit.
Think they will need drilling out tbh
Title: Re: Snapped sunframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: K9 on October 20, 2016, 04:31:25 pm
Is I snapped one and had to drive it for about 50 miles :-S
i have been driving for like 3 weeks and ni problems. but it's bugging me

Id complain to whoever supplied the kit.
Think they will need drilling out tbh
It's the oem vw bolt that snapped when trying to remove it

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Title: Re: Snapped sunframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: ROH ECHT on October 20, 2016, 07:43:21 pm
Did it snap in a way you cannot grip it with vise grips to remove the broken bit? You did install the W.A.L.K. with new bolts at all other locations, yes?

You likely need to use an easy-out/bolt extractor to remove the broken bolt if unable to get at it if not protruding outside the subframe. Means drilling a hole in the broken bolt...but first need to make a centered dimple in the end that's broken with a small grinding bit before the final drill bit is used...for being easier. :wink:
Title: Re: Snapped sunframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: Stupots on October 21, 2016, 08:24:33 am
When doing my anti lift bushes (I just used TT ones) 4 of the bolts came out fine, one bolt wouldn't come out and the other took about an hour of lubing, undo 1/2 turn, do up 1/4... spray lube... rinse repeat. If you've broken one off you could try buying an Alum bar off of eBay, it dissolves the steel bolt, but not the aluminium. Chances are it's just a few broken threads locking it solid. I know you have broken it, but this will help loosen it up, they are rather tough to simply drill out or use an easy out on. You should be able to see the top of the bolts coming through the sub-frame when looking through the wheel arch, so would be able to apply (and maybe some mild heat) to the end of the bolt and let gravity do it's thing. Don't let it get on the other bolts though, or take them out first!

This vid gives you the rough idea, but it will dissolve a drill bit without touching Aluminium, so it's quite strong stuff :)


Cheers and good luck

Stu
Title: Re: Snapped sunframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: grey golfster on October 21, 2016, 08:45:35 am
Is that an Alum bar, like those used for shaving?
Is that what he's rubbing on to a heated seized bolt?

Title: Re: Snapped sunframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: Juliand on October 21, 2016, 08:57:17 am
That was an interesting vid. Shows patience is the key - no bull at a gate there... Like everything - if you have the right kit :congrats:
Title: Re: Snapped sunframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: Stupots on October 21, 2016, 12:10:11 pm
Is that an Alum bar, like those used for shaving?
Is that what he's rubbing on to a heated seized bolt?

Yep, one in the same :)
Title: Re: Snapped sunframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: K9 on October 21, 2016, 04:18:44 pm
i guess i will have to drill it out  :scared: there is a small head still sticking out like 1cm from the subframe where it snapped.
Title: Re: Snapped sunframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: dazza on July 02, 2021, 10:14:40 pm
Opening up an old thread

Went to change the front control arm bushings and one of the stretch bolts snapped on removal.

(https://i.postimg.cc/QNyCGYLR/Screen-Shot-2021-07-02-at-23-08-14.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Vice grips slip off.

Welded a nut on and put the impact gun (electric) on it which did nothing

In the end it snapped again

I could weld a larger nut and really fill it with weld or drill out?

Drilling out would be a pita under the car i suppose i could remove the subframe?

Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: Pudding on July 02, 2021, 10:32:41 pm
Which one sheered?  The yellow arrow one or the red arrow?

The red one is bad news if it means replacing the captive nut in the chassis rail.

If the yellow ones...... I would just get new subframe parts from ebay personally, and run a tap through the threads before fitment, and use anti-seize grease on the new bolts.  I think I paid £50 for the whole lot when my dogbone mount bolt did the same thing.  I couldn't be bothered with welding/drilling/swearing/shouting.
Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: brian_badonde on July 02, 2021, 10:59:51 pm
Came here to say what Kev said don't even bother trying to drill them, new console section can be had for 25 quid from the breakers.

I sheared mine when I installed my superpro kit. It happens because the tips of the bolts galvanically corrode and seize up on their way back out through the console. You can try corrosion inhibitor on the new bolts for future disassembly but it won't help much as it's chemical reaction. Only sure fire way to avoid it is to wire brush the tips before you remove them.

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Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: Pudding on July 02, 2021, 11:37:30 pm
VAG used to use  coated bolts in the good old days when they were diligent about car assembly, but I haven't seen those used since the MK4.  Dealers also used to sell the best anti-seize compound known to man, which was called 'hot bolt paste'.  Can't get either anymore.

I've been using the silver coloured anti-seize grease for years on the MK5 and the chassis/brake/wheel bolts all just plop off with ease  :smiley:
Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: dazza on July 03, 2021, 01:08:02 am
Thanks guys its the one with the yellow arrow pointing down.

Things are not that cheap here, I will see what i can find.

And the complete subframe needs removing?

And a lot more stretch bolts to be replaced?
Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: brian_badonde on July 03, 2021, 07:09:03 am
Unfortunately yes, you'll have to lower the whole subframe and replace the stretch bolts. You'll also have to remove the steering rack and ARB bolts on the side that you're replacing. Attached is a picture of how it mounts up from the other side. The big hole at the back is a body mount and the 4 smaller ones are ARB/rack. The rack has locating dowels in those holes so you have to gently pry the console away from it, it won't immediately come free once you undo the bolts.

On the stretch bolts, you could maybe get away with not replacing the ARB/rack ones but I would definitely replace the body mounting ones.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210703/40ea083196933bd61b01a7564bee66ce.jpg)

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Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: chimp400 on July 03, 2021, 07:46:15 am
I’ve just removed my subframe to do the steering rack and it’s quite a nice job to be fair, nothing too taxing.
Probably going to take some heat on that bolt to free it off.
I’d replace the subframe stretch bolts personally, the rest will probably be ok if your not disturbing them.
It’s a slippery slope when you get it down though thinking what else you should change, I went for super pro arb bushes and the vibra technics dog bone subframe bush.
Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: dazza on July 03, 2021, 03:06:35 pm
that was a pita

(https://i.postimg.cc/rFhbmZ2c/Whats-App-Image-2021-07-03-at-16-01-08.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jL7v3Xjk)

the bolt is well and truly stuck i welded a bolt heated and hit with the impact gun > bolt snapped again
Then i drilled all the way though heated and used easy out still would not come out.

I will order a new one.

Can I rebuild and torque the control arms on the bench?

Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: chimp400 on July 03, 2021, 05:30:27 pm
Final tightening of the front bolt would be beneficial with the car on its wheels but no issues with rebuilding them on the bench.
Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: dazza on July 03, 2021, 07:16:09 pm
Thanks for your help guys

So I need to order 4 more subframe bolts

2 * N90823501

2 * N91039801

1 * N10528602 for the new console.

4 * N10579702 steering rack

4 * N10570601  ARB

1 * N10204808 dog bone

1 * N10454801 dog bone

Are any other bolts one use?
Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: chimp400 on July 03, 2021, 07:22:57 pm
Most are single use, I’ve just had my subframe out to do the rack and arb bushes etc and replaced the following.
6 subframe, 4 rack, 4 arb bush, 3 dog bone.
Got them all from Vag bolts on eBay.
There is a good list here midway down the first page.
https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=117626.0
Title: Re: Snapped sunframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: LC5F on July 03, 2021, 11:15:38 pm
Drilling out would be a pita under the car i suppose i could remove the subframe?

Yes - but the subframe is made out of 3 parts centre and 2 outers, last time I checked it was £15 for replacement side part on ebay, no need to drill.

I managed to snap off 3 of those bolts, it was the white powder that bound up the thread solid, even with the subframe in an oven at 200C it wouldn't budge with good penetrating oil or wax melted onto the thread.

For console bolts - Febi do a good kit or if this kit seems good value doing both sides - brand is Topran - terrible name, but great cheap parts: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224355416883?hash=item343c9ffb33:g:1R0AAOSw7kdgLQQj (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224355416883?hash=item343c9ffb33:g:1R0AAOSw7kdgLQQj)
Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: dazza on July 12, 2021, 09:52:49 pm
Thanks guys, I've order a replacement off ebay for 25 euros.
Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: LC5F on July 13, 2021, 09:30:19 pm
Can I rebuild and torque the control arms on the bench?

Yes to bench tighten
When I did mine with DSG - even with the dogbone disconnected - there was not enough room to get a torque wrench + socket in between the bolt head and the mechatronix
Ended up dropping the subframe just enough to tighten

If you want to get a head start, you can partially re-assemble the subframe in the Golf ready to add the side part of the subframe.
Lastly, don't forget to bolt in the cable tray on the top of the Left side... its close to the inner CV and can rub
Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: dazza on July 15, 2021, 11:09:12 am
All done just need an alignment and a couple of new tires.

I found this cap on the floor and cant remember where its from?  :scared: :rolleye:


(https://i.postimg.cc/vT7yNGcq/IMG-20210715-111246.png) (https://postimg.cc/rRp7dXGx)
Title: Re: Snapped subframe walk 16mm bolt. What to do?
Post by: brian_badonde on July 15, 2021, 11:20:39 am
Nice one, congrats

Don't remember seeing one of those. Having said that, the caps on my axle stand release handles look like that. Worth checking your tools maybe

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