MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Technical Workshop => Topic started by: DJ on November 19, 2008, 12:01:57 pm
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Hope I'm posting this in the right place and apologies if this topic already exists. I did search for 'Cold Starts' but nothing hit home.
Does anyone else have a problem with their car needing the engine turned over a good few times before catching? I drive quite a variety of cars (rentals, company cars, old cars etc) and the GTI is by far and away the worst for starting. Even when you think the engine has caught and ease back on the key the engine will die.
Usually once the engine is warm everything is OK and it will restart without a problem but now we are getting into depths of winter (not today though) I am noticing this more and more.
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The only thing I have noticed with mine is that it does struggle on initial start up, sometimes sounds like its going to die, but as you say once its going no problems.
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Mine's not great on start up either but always fires first time.
The wife's Jetta 2.0 TDI was the same until it was serviced, then it seemed to start much better :happy2: Has your's had it's first service?
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Mine's not great on start up either but always fires first time.
The wife's Jetta 2.0 TDI was the same until it was serviced, then it seemed to start much better :happy2: Has your's had it's first service?
Nope, not yet, Im assuming the display will tell me when its due ?
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Mine's not great on start up either but always fires first time.
The wife's Jetta 2.0 TDI was the same until it was serviced, then it seemed to start much better :happy2: Has your's had it's first service?
Nope, not yet, Im assuming the display will tell me when its due ?
It will be two years old on the 3rd of Jan so I'd get it done either way If I were you mate :happy2:
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Mine's not great on start up either but always fires first time.
The wife's Jetta 2.0 TDI was the same until it was serviced, then it seemed to start much better :happy2: Has your's had it's first service?
Nope, not yet, Im assuming the display will tell me when its due ?
It will be two years old on the 3rd of Jan so I'd get it done either way If I were you mate :happy2:
Yeah, ive no doubt it will shout up soon, but I had planned on getting it done in the next month or so! :wink:
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Hope I'm posting this in the right place and apologies if this topic already exists. I did search for 'Cold Starts' but nothing hit home.
Does anyone else have a problem with their car needing the engine turned over a good few times before catching? I drive quite a variety of cars (rentals, company cars, old cars etc) and the GTI is by far and away the worst for starting. Even when you think the engine has caught and ease back on the key the engine will die.
Usually once the engine is warm everything is OK and it will restart without a problem but now we are getting into depths of winter (not today though) I am noticing this more and more.
Hi DJ, mine is almost new and has been like this form the first day, i dont drive mine to often so it can go 5 or 6 days without being turned over but i suffer from the very same thing.
Now i have asked this on another forum and it is very common and the best bit of advice i got and was from our resident expert, a certain mr TT. And he told me to just keep the key turned until you know its running, instead of releasing when it should have fired or when you think it has fired.
Now i pulled a face and thought huh. But i do it all the time now and it works perfect obviously you dont keep the key turned once its running but that split second longer makes all the difference and since this advice i have not once had to turn the key more than once to start. simple but effective.
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Yeah I get this aswell, must be common amongst GTI/ED30's. I always wondered if it was just my car but after reading this I feel a lot better :happy2:
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Thanks for the replies all, glad to hear I'm not the only one to notice this.
All my previous cars have started almost immediately on start-up so I notice it more, especially if I use mine after driving something else for a while. I go away a fair bit for work so sometimes the car will sit for a few weeks without running. It always starts but it does seem strange for a modern vehicle to take so long!
I have no problem/ worries turning the engine over until it catches but a couple of people have remarked "is there something wrong with your car?" which is a tad embarrassing for what is essentially a new car. 7 months old and under 3k miles.
Last time I was passed a VW dealer I mentioned it to the technician and of course because the engine was warm it started no problem.
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Mine also does this and if anything has got slightly worse since the first service.
But like the others have said it will always start but you just have to hold the key for a bit longer than on some other cars.
Previous 05 Plate GTI didn't do though :confused:
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Hello. Funny you mention this. Our gti starts perfectly each time. Never a problem. Never just cuts? just an idea. I know that last year vw had an issue with batteries and some cars were recalled for new batteries as the batteries were going flat and at that stage our gti did wat you described. New battery and no problems. So you might want to get that checked out as i was told it was a uk issue too. Mike
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08micsta, was this an official recall? As I said I have spoken to one dealer about this (although not the one I purchased from) and he was unable to offer an explanation.
My car is an 08 build registered in March so I would have thought anything that happened last year would be sorted by now although this is VW we are speaking about...
My friend has a year old TT and doesn't have this problem, does anyone know if any other models with the same engine share these characteristics or just the GTI?
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Well looking at those who have replied this seems to be common amongst the edition 30 besides TC's and ours which was solved.
We were told its an official recall of "certain" models that were given the wrong batteries.
So maybe just maybe the cause of this is because the Edition 30 has uprated internals and a bigger turbo. Perhaps the normal GTi Battery battles a bit with these upgrades and then of course as the car gets older it could become worse as the battery is deteriating?
Perhaps a little overboard but it is a possibility. Ours was recalled for the new battery and has worked perfect since.
Mike
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Hello. Funny you mention this. Our gti starts perfectly each time. Never a problem.
Ditto. Never had an issue with starting.
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Stealthwolf. Your are Edition 30 correct?
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Stealthwolf. Your are Edition 30 correct?
Yeah. why?
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Can you do me a favour?
Pop outside and pop the hood and see if there is a product number, or product code or a model for the battery in your GTI.
Once you have it maybe post it here wiht a picture... Im not near our GTi for a few days so cant look at ours. But then maybe TC or someone with a normal GTi can check the product number/code on theirs. Maybe take a pic and we can compare.
Im probably way off the mark but Im sure the batteries will be the same. However if we see a difference in battery product codes we will know that the batteries might be the issue.
Example. I have the recalled battery in a 2007 GTI. My code is 12
Yours is a edition 30 2007 model with a code: 13
Yet Steve's 2007 ed30 is a code: 12
You dont have starting issues but he does? Maybe its a different or weaker battery, hence the slight issue starting. What you guys think?
Mike
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Will have a look today when I head off to work.
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Great stuff. Im going to pop VW an email about the battery recall we had.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv55%2Fstealthwolf%2Fth_DSCF0484.jpg&hash=b8da5fc3119097b674cfd01acb7cef0be569b7e6) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v55/stealthwolf/?action=view¤t=DSCF0484.jpg)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv55%2Fstealthwolf%2Fth_DSCF0485.jpg&hash=9b8098a29f45a58d834cbcaa7cd4736b896bcf51) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v55/stealthwolf/?action=view¤t=DSCF0485.jpg)
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Thank you Stealthwolf. TC. Im going home today so wil check our Golf's battery.
Here is the response from VW (Read from the bottom upwards):
Good morning Michael.
This is the feedback I got from my workshop department. Let me know if there is more information that you need.
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Hodges
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:47 AM
To: Willem Du Plooy
Subject: RE: Battery recall
Their was no battery recall campaign-it was found that the radio was the problem drawing current when veh. was off-thus
we carry out campaign 91c3 -which is a software update on the radio to rectify this current draw.-this is done to all effected models when they come in for service.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Willem Du Plooy
Sent: 21 November 2008 09:34 AM
To: Trevor Hodges
Cc: Michael Frederick Stafford
Subject: FW: Battery recall
Hi Trevor would you please look into this for us.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Frederick Stafford [mailto:08micsta@wbhs.org.za]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 5:11 PM
To: Willem Du Plooy
Subject: RE: Battery recall
Thank you.
The reg plate is: *
The vehicle is a silver GTi.
Thank you very much.
-----Original Message-----
From: Willem Du Plooy [mailto:Willem@claremont.co.za]
Sent: Thu 20 November 2008 05:07 PM
To: Michael Frederick Stafford
Subject: RE: Battery recall
Yes the reg. no. will help….thanks.
I will then have an answer for you tomorrow.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Frederick Stafford [mailto:08micsta@wbhs.org.za]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 5:05 PM
To: Willem Du Plooy
Subject: RE: Battery recall
Unfortunately I wont be near the car for about a week as I am away. Could I supply you with a registration number or my details?
-----Original Message-----
From: Willem Du Plooy [mailto:Willem@claremont.co.za]
Sent: Thu 20 November 2008 05:03 PM
To: Michael Frederick Stafford
Subject: RE: Battery recall
Hi Michael
Can you please supply me with the VIN no of the car? It will start with aavzzz……..with this no. I can assist with your request .
Regards
Willem
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Frederick Stafford [mailto:08micsta@wbhs.org.za]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 4:59 PM
To: Willem Du Plooy
Subject: Battery recall
Hello
Shortly after buying our Golf 5 GTi last year there was a battery recall done on the batteries. We were told that the wrong battery had been fitted to the vehicle and that other GTi's were also being recalled for the issue.
Could you perhaps supply some information about why the recall had to be done? What caused it etc?
I would also appreciate it if you could supply the technical specifications of the current batteries being supplied in the MK5 GTi.
The reason for my asking is an issue that has come up on a Golf GTi forum I belong to and was hoping your response with this information could clear up some of these issues.
Regards,
Michael Stafford
So not battery related but more radio related which drains the battery causing trouble starting... I replied with:
Thank you very much for your quick response. Could you tell me whether this radio issue if not solved could be the reason that some GTi's battle to start (You have to turn the key for longer then most cars) or is this trait something to expect from a golf 5 GTi? This seems to be prevelent on a madel in the Uk called the Edition 30 which has extra power and uprated internals from the factory. The problem seems more prevelent in this model. Maybe the battery is unable to cope properly with the uprated engine? Im playing devils advocate here. What do you think?
Will keep you all updated.
Mike
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Mate, firstly, do you wanna edit your post to take out your name, reg no and email addy? Not good thing to post online.
Secondly, I remember something about mk5 golfs having problems with the stereo. People would turn it off, go to bed and come back in the morning to find the stereo on and playing music. Apparently, it would think you put in a cd, try to play that cd, realise there was no cd, and switch to radio. Was this related to the above or something else?
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Hello Stealth
Im from South Africa. The Gti is as common as flies around here so whats a Reg plate honestly going to do here? lol But I edited anyway. And everyone knows my name anyway. lol
That was a different issue to this. This was the CD player sapping off th battey whilst not even being on leaving the car with hardly any power to start. It was a software issue but once again. I feel there is more to this than it seems and Im certain that the battery is an issue. Im at home and will check our battery later...
Mike
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Hi Micsta thankyou for looking into this starting problem for the guys. :smiley:
I am confident it is not a battery problem. I went through the problem with TT and he made me go through how it starts in detail and he said it is just a characteristic and nothing to worry about, and it is just as common on GTI's as ED 30's so all is good. :driver:
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I must admit that tt is extremely knowledgeable and somewhat missing for a while. But how come only some gtis have this issue and not others? i probably sound like im overreacting a tad. But this has me curious and i would like to know the reason. I will check our battery later. And if its the same i will leave it be. But if the batteries are different with different specs i will look further into it.
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Hey all,
just to let ya know, i have a 2006 'normal' GTi and suffer from same problem when
starting from cold, 'sigh of relief' thought I bought a dud!
Also my gti engine taps quite a bit, sounding more like a diesel
than a petrol, is this normal???
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^^ The diesel sound is very normal, all the 2.0 TFSI engines I have heard are the same :smiley:
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Mike, you say you have not heard of any other Golfs with such problems, but is it not the case there aren't many forums for 1.4 Golf Matches etc? Obviously any problem on the GTI is likely to be highlighted due to the enthusistic following and the number of different forums that cover this model? :wink:
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The radio??? FFS! :surprised:
Good lad for finding that out though, would be interested to hear if this is the cause and from what date new software was applied from for newer cars.
My car is a standard GTI (non-Ed30) and have the problem with cold starts. My dad has an 06 TDI which starts first time every time.
Interestingly, I used the 12v plug in the boot last weekend for a tyre compressor and noticed that it was running slow, only when the engine was running did the pump motor run at full speed so I guess running off less than 12v when just using the battery rather than through the alternator with the engine running?
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The radio??? FFS! :surprised:
Good lad for finding that out though, would be interested to hear if this is the cause and from what date new software was applied from for newer cars.
My car is a standard GTI (non-Ed30) and have the problem with cold starts. My dad has an 06 TDI which starts first time every time.
Interestingly, I used the 12v plug in the boot last weekend for a tyre compressor and noticed that it was running slow, only when the engine was running did the pump motor run at full speed so I guess running off less than 12v when just using the battery rather than through the alternator with the engine running?
DJ the starting problem is nothing to do with the battery. I am not saying yours doesn't run down when the radio is left on i am simply saying the starting delay is not caused by this. :smiley:
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I didn't think that would be the problem hence my reaction.
I stand corrected. That will teach me to read all posts rather than just skipping through them.
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My standard 2006 GTI often stands 2-3 weeks without being started and starts almost instantly. However I do often connect it to a CTEK top up smart charger thingy if left for long periods. If some start fine and others don't then there surely has to be a reason. Are we all running on the happy juice (98/99 ron fuel)? Perhaps this makes a difference??
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My standard 2006 GTI often stands 2-3 weeks without being started and starts almost instantly. However I do often connect it to a CTEK top up smart charger thingy if left for long periods. If some start fine and others don't then there surely has to be a reason. Are we all running on the happy juice (98/99 ron fuel)? Perhaps this makes a difference??
Yeah I run mine only on Tesco 99 and it still sounds like a banger at start up :surprised:
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on a slight TDI tangent i find using shell v-power makes for a much better and quieter start
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I've noticed that my 'normal' 05 GTI has this starting charectaristic. My old 1.8T would always fire after a couple of turns but the 2.0T can be a bit unpredictable. Sometimes a couple of turns and sometimes a couple more and at times you think its about to die again. Glad to see its 'normal'!
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So maybe just maybe the cause of this is because the Edition 30 has uprated internals and a bigger turbo. Perhaps the normal GTi Battery battles a bit with these upgrades and then of course as the car gets older it could become worse as the battery is deteriating?
Standard GTI battery is a 72Ah 380A
Standard Ed30 battery is a 70Ah 340A
So your logic is wrong! :wink:
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I must admit that tt is extremely knowledgeable and somewhat missing for a while. But how come only some gtis have this issue and not others?
"User Error"! :wink: It has naff all to do with one GTI being iffy, and another being perfect! :happy2:
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The radio??? FFS! :surprised:
Yup, the RNS-MFD SatNavs also had the same issues! :rolleye:
My car is a standard GTI (non-Ed30) and have the problem with cold starts. My dad has an 06 TDI which starts first time every time.
User Error, and User OK. :wink:
Interestingly, I used the 12v plug in the boot last weekend for a tyre compressor and noticed that it was running slow, only when the engine was running did the pump motor run at full speed so I guess running off less than 12v when just using the battery rather than through the alternator with the engine running?
Sadly, that just seems to prove that the batteries fitted to the GTI can best be descirbed as 'boarderline'. They really need a higher capacity battery as standard.
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OK - some plain english - to-the-point advice for engine starts - for ALL engines - hot or cold - petrol or diesel.
- Do NOT touch the throttle pedal at all - don't even fart near it - untill the engine has started and running under its own steam (unless the owners manual specifically states otherwise)
- when putting in the ignition key, turn it to the "ignition on" position, but do NOT immediately activate the starter motor. Wait about 5 seconds, until all the usual warning lights have extinguished. During this phase, the electronic throttle valve self calibrates (and feeds back status info to the ECU). If you touch the throttle pedal - it just messes this up, and confuses the ECU
- Then twist the ignition key - and HOLD it on the starter UNTIL the engine has fired and running under its own steam. It is perfectly safe to hold the key on the starter for upto 10 continuous seconds. If it don't start, turn the ignition fully off, turn on, and wait another 10 seconds before engaging the starter and trying again. Still keep your Doc Martins off the throttle pedal
- After you have released the starter motor, try to let the engine idle for at least 30 seconds, and then you can press the loud pedal to your hearts content
Further info for the GTI, and all FSI and direct injection petrol engines:
Because the high pressure fuel system in these engines is only developed from the engine-driven pump - then these engines have to be physically turned by the starter motor, to build up the pressure in the fuel rail. This means that the GTI (and associated FSI/TSI) engines seem to take slightly longer than normal engines to start. This is perfectly normal, and is not a problem. Just make sure you hold the key on the starter for slightly longer than you may be used to, as described in the above bullet points. :smiley:
If the Mods/Admins want to sticky this, or move it to a separate post, then that is fine by me. :happy2:
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I have this problem as i sometimes go up to ten days without use. and ever since you passed on this advice on the dark side i have held the key turned longer and always fires now, it just takes that fraction longer than other cars.
I wiil definitely make this a sticky, as its clear a lot of us think its a fault rather than a characteristic . :smiley:
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I have this problem as i sometimes go up to ten days without use. and ever since you passed on this advice on the dark side i have held the key turned longer and always fires now, it just takes that fraction longer than other cars.
I wiil definitely make this a sticky, as its clear a lot of us think its a fault rather than a characteristic . :smiley:
OK, thanks. :happy2:
Another 'converted' :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
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- After you have released the starter motor, try to let the engine idle for at least 30 seconds, and then you can press the loud pedal to your hearts content
My car is parked in a garage overnight. I can wait until all the lights are out before ignition but help sitting there for 30 seconds might be a bit much. Can I bring the car out of the garage under clutch control (no gas whatsoever) or is that still a neddy-no-no?
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- After you have released the starter motor, try to let the engine idle for at least 30 seconds, and then you can press the loud pedal to your hearts content
My car is parked in a garage overnight. I can wait until all the lights are out before ignition but help sitting there for 30 seconds might be a bit much. Can I bring the car out of the garage under clutch control (no gas whatsoever) or is that still a neddy-no-no?
Yeah, that would be fine. Even light pressage of the accelerator pedal would be fine.
That bit of advice is really aimed at the numpties who think it is cool to be flooring the gas whilst the engine isn't working (as in actually 'driving' the vehicle in forward or reverse motion!). The "30 second" bit is just a general rule of thumb, because it can take that long for the engine oil to reach the camshaft!
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Cool beans! Thanks TT!
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This is probably not helpful at all to those who are experiencing this issue... but my '07 Edition 30 always starts instantly, sometimes having been stood for a week or more. I'm posting this response simply to highlight that this clearly doesn't affect all such vehicles and as others have said it does seem odd that there's seemingly no rhyme nor reason to it.
Sorry... no gloating intended!javascript:void(0);
Shaun
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This is probably not helpful at all to those who are experiencing this issue... but my '07 Edition 30 always starts instantly, sometimes having been stood for a week or more. I'm posting this response simply to highlight that this clearly doesn't affect all such vehicles and as others have said it does seem odd that there's seemingly no rhyme nor reason to it.
Sorry... no gloating intended!javascript:void(0);
Shaun
x2, mine is fine too
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mine starts instantly always as well BUT it makes some horrible ticking over noise in the mornings, was thinking its the timing belt or something but im not sure anyone else get this??
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just to update i left mine for a bit as there was no problems once i got going and didnt affect the drive, but got it sorted now under warrenty was the cam belt so any other people with similar things should get the car booked in or it could be painful.. cams arnt meant to go at 20 odd k! thanks to mr gary for the knowledge! i had a few people look at it and he was the only person who knew from the noise not even the tech at vw believed it! nice one geezer :happy2:
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Just to try and clarify why some seem to be fine and start nigh-on instantly, and others longer - it is simply down to the actual pressure in the fuel rail. Just like when you blow up a baloon (and therefore pressurise the air inside), and then leave it - some baloons seem to stay inflated for ages, and others can seem as limp as a wet lettuce after a few days - well maybe the internal seals within the high-pressure side of the fuel system might be leaking everso slightly on those cars which are difficult in starting!
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Just like to say that I went into get the battery changed by vw and apparently on my 2.0 BKD pd diesel its the biggest heavy duty battery they do and i still find it does struggle to start some times. It's deffo nothing to do with the battery has TT says.
Darren
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Just to try and clarify why some seem to be fine and start nigh-on instantly, and others longer - it is simply down to the actual pressure in the fuel rail. Just like when you blow up a baloon (and therefore pressurise the air inside), and then leave it - some baloons seem to stay inflated for ages, and others can seem as limp as a wet lettuce after a few days - well maybe the internal seals within the high-pressure side of the fuel system might be leaking everso slightly on those cars which are difficult in starting!
I don't know if anyone else has noticed but if I leave my car for 5 mins after turning it off it sounds like my car is crying it makes a weeping noise every 30 seconds or so I'm 100% sure this is fuel leaking back as it's comeing from the inlet manifold area and it only does the poor starting wether it's cold or not 1st start in the morning so giveing it enough time to leak enough back to just not catch te first time....
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Ah I've only had my 07 gti does seen to struggle on first start up ?unlike my old 1.9gttdi fired up with no probs, but it's new to me and I thought it was coz it's a petrol and big engine...!!
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Just to chip in with something which may be useful for the manual owners is that in the instruction booklet (what the hell is that i hear you ask :grin:) it recommends you start the engine in the way TT describes plus as you turn the key to start the engine fully depress the clutch pedal
I've followed this method for start up from both cold and warm and no problems so far *touches wood* :happy2:
I really am trying to exercise 'car sympathy' with this motor :jumpmove:
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Just to bring up a old post. I have exact same problem with my 08 reg Normal GTi (24k miles), especially now the weather has gotten a bit colder. Every morning I start the car, although it starts first time, It hesistates, almost as if its going to fail and then fires up. I've got the Liquid Golf Gauge installed and that has not revelaed any fault codes. The car has also been dyno'd at Awesome GTi who has said the car is in healthy condition. When speaking to a staff at Awesome, they recommended checking the battery?
Is it worth leaving the car with the garage to have this problem investigated or is this a common characteristics of FSI engines?
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I have exact same problem with my 08 reg Normal GTi (24k miles), especially now the weather has gotten a bit colder. Every morning I start the car, although it starts first time, It hesistates, almost as if its going to fail and then fires up.
Mate, I've got the exact same "issue" with my 2006/06 GTI - I noticed it this morning and panicked a little bit. However, with so many other owners reporting seeing the same behaviour it sounds like a 'characteristic' rather than an indication of a more serious underlying problem...
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+1
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+1
My conclusion to this problem was that the GTI's engine has no way of priming like most petrol engines do, since the high pressure fuel pump is driven by the engine. Therefore, cold starts are basically priming the engine as you turn the starter motor, or at least that is my understanding!
It doesn't explain why some people experience no such issue though :fighting:
*EDIT*
p.s. it would be interesting to see whether there is a link between those who don't hear the in-tank pump prime when the drivers' door is opened, and those who have cold-start issues...
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Just like to say that I went into get the battery changed by vw and apparently on my 2.0 BKD pd diesel its the biggest heavy duty battery they do
Me thinks the VW stealer has been bullsh!tting you . . . what is the spec on the battery they fitted?
Because below is the 'biggest heavy duty battery' which VW do (that is a monster 110Ah 850A DIN CCA beast):
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FTeutonic_Tamer%2Fmy_B7_RS4_saloon%2Fea1b1937.jpg&hash=5a3e4f742686b66845874b02b46722aaa677a75e)
and i still find it does struggle to start some times. It's deffo nothing to do with the battery has TT says.
In what way does it struggle to start?
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I'm guessing they mean that the starter is turning over just fine, but the engine isn't firing up as quick as it should... i.e. a fuel problem rather than a battery problem.
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Just to try and clarify why some seem to be fine and start nigh-on instantly, and others longer - it is simply down to the actual pressure in the fuel rail. Just like when you blow up a baloon (and therefore pressurise the air inside), and then leave it - some baloons seem to stay inflated for ages, and others can seem as limp as a wet lettuce after a few days - well maybe the internal seals within the high-pressure side of the fuel system might be leaking everso slightly on those cars which are difficult in starting!
I don't know if anyone else has noticed but if I leave my car for 5 mins after turning it off it sounds like my car is crying it makes a weeping noise every 30 seconds or so I'm 100% sure this is fuel leaking back as it's comeing from the inlet manifold area and it only does the poor starting wether it's cold or not 1st start in the morning so giveing it enough time to leak enough back to just not catch te first time....
That noise could be a number of things: there is an after-run electric coolant pump which is mounted low down at the front of the engine near the oil filter, it could be the electronic throttle valve, or it could be the motor for the inlet manifold tumble flaps, or even the purge valve for the evap canister. It is highly unlikely you will hear fuel leaking (bearing in mind the pressure in the fuel rail).
Don't forget that modern cars can take as long as 90 minutes (or even longer) to go to 'sleep' after locking the car - you can often hear relays clicking and servo motors adjusting during this time.
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Just to bring up a old post. I have exact same problem with my 08 reg Normal GTi (24k miles), especially now the weather has gotten a bit colder. Every morning I start the car, although it starts first time, It hesistates, almost as if its going to fail and then fires up. I've got the Liquid Golf Gauge installed and that has not revelaed any fault codes. The car has also been dyno'd at Awesome GTi who has said the car is in healthy condition. When speaking to a staff at Awesome, they recommended checking the battery?
Is it worth leaving the car with the garage to have this problem investigated or is this a common characteristics of FSI engines?
What spec battery do you have?
The Mk5 GTI was originally specified with a 72Ah battery, but around the 2007 model year change, Wolfsburg started penny euro-cent-pinching by fitting a 70Ah battery. Now you might think the difference between 72 and 70 isn't significant - but the Ah (Amp/hour) figure is a rating for 'slow drain' power output capacity. What is more relevant in car batteries is the CCA or 'cold cranking amps' - this is basically the 'stress test' which is basically how much juice the battery has when trying to start a cold engine (there is a specific ambient temperature, but I can't remember it). The original spec 72Ah had a CCA of 340A DIN / 570A SAE, whereas the cheapskate spec 70Ah had a much better CCA of 380A DIN / 640A SAE.
If anyone still has a 70Ah battery, I'd strongly recommend getting it changed for a 72Ah batt (if not a genuine OEM, then an aftermarket one with a comparable CCA rating). I had horrendous problems with the 70Ah batt as supplied on mine (competely dead on cold mornings, repeated call-outs of VW Assist, etc, etc) - and the thick monkies at my stealer refused to accept the battery was faulty (tried fannying around with other things such as battery drain from sat nav - the useless cnuts basically just kept turning off the TIM recording settings). I eventually went compained to VW UK (who still took a little persuading) who authorised (basically told the service 'manager') to fit the 'correct' spec 72Ah batt - and touch wood, the same battery is still going strong five years later.
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Sorry to jump in on the thread but i'm having Cold and hot starting issues on my 140tdi, have changed starter motor and glow plugs and had a service, have just checked the battery and its a 72Ah but not sure how old it is. It's got to the point where I have to bump it now rather than it just taking a while. Any ideas?
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Sorry to jump in on the thread but i'm having Cold and hot starting issues on my 140tdi, have changed starter motor and glow plugs and had a service, have just checked the battery and its a 72Ah but not sure how old it is. It's got to the point where I have to bump it now rather than it just taking a while. Any ideas?
this is specifically to daboy3000.
I bought a 2.0TDI (BKD motor) a little over 3 years ago. Mine also had starting issues. Eventually the car would not start at all.
in the firs 3 weeks, VW replaced all the following parts. Battery, Alternator Wiring Harness, Two injector seals and re-calibrated all the injectors.
It was poor on diesel to say the least. But never had another starting issue afterwards.
Related to this topic -
Our newly acquired GTI. Also seems to have this infamous starting problem. Only when left a while or cold. But turn key and it fails, a few seconds later car starts first pop. It also keeps having the stupid P0441 - upper limit exceeded problem. So will replace the N80 and hose next week. See if the problem then rectifies the starting problem too?
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Have had some starting difficulties too, replaced my battery with a Bosch Silver S4 and I think that made my starting much smoother :smiley:
Still isn't as good as my Dad's passat TDI tough...
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I have the same cold start problems BUT my GTI's symptoms are abit unique compared to the rest to confuse the matter :confused: -
She doesnt always start up 1st time on cold starts - sounds as tho its going to die and then cranks up fine. (without me having to turn the ignition again) When it does start up, 1 of the following things happen --
* Rear wiper starts to operate it self (until I switch the wiper stalk to 'on' and then 'off') which then returns back to its normal position.
OR
* The onboard computer completely resets with the clock, trip etc all going to zero (in which I have to set the clock again to the correct time. In addition to this I then get the Steering Wheel, ESP and TPMS lights come on dashboard - these lights then go away completely as soon as I start driving. (within a matter of seconds) My one touch windows feature 'sometimes' needs resetting again but not all the time. Sometimes the one touch window feature still seems to operate as normal.
Any thoughts on this? (She is an 05 GTi with a VARTA 70Ah battery) Warm starts are fine
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Any thoughts on this? (She is an 05 GTi with a VARTA 70Ah battery) Warm starts are fine
Either your battery is dying or you have a bad ground connection from battery to chassis or to engine block. It might also be wiring to starter motor. What you are describing, happens because voltage drops too low during engine start (those same issues come up if you need to remove and reconnect battery). I would put it on battery charger over night and see how it behaves then. I have seen a lot of mk5 GTI's that had to change their battery after about 6 years, so it might be just that.
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I posted the same on other thread but wanted to mention it here too . Could the cold start issues be related to coil pack combined with low CCA of the battery ? Mine has the same issue when cold start .
Update : changed the battery to Bosch S5 and it starts immediately ever time from cold start. 74Ah and 680 CCA
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My GTI is a 2005 build. My car used to hesitate to start when I bought it last year. When I was doing work on my car few months ago, I did a battery health check...the print out read critically low. Popped down to my local TPS and picked up a new battery. I noticed this battery was a higher spec on the figures. Since my car has been a lot better on cold starts.
P/N - ZGBEB 712 096 SE Excell 096 Battery £39.65+vat
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I have 2007 gt tdi 170. First cold start it turns over and starts quickly, then immediately stalls. Next time I turn it over it starts quickly abd then stays running. Does it just every time but just once…?
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Mk5 Edition 30, 2007 (BYD) with 186000 miles.
12/2021 (less than a year ago):
New Bosch S5 008 780A (EN) 77Ah 12V and same time a new starter motor (Ridex 2S0383) to be sure that original is not the cause.
Starts were perfect until last week, when the temperature started to get lower, closer to zero Celsius with very moist weather.
Sometimes when I turn the key, it won't start. It is totally quiet. All lights are normal, no warning lights.
Then I turn it again and it has started so far, at least on the third try. When it starts, it starts great, not like with bad or dying battery.
I drive about 25 minutes one way to work (and back), so the battery will get warmed/charged up well daily.
Do we have a real solution to this, or is it a new battery for the coming winter (again)?
I am going to change key battery, if this has something to do with that (probably not).
+1000 miles later:
With new key battery, I got few "strange starts", but after those it has started perfectly thought the winter. :smiley:
Maybe my key battery was close to dying and did not report to cars computer perfectly every time(?).
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When you say it won't start, does turning the key do nothing at all, or it cranks over but won't fire up?
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When you say it won't start, does turning the key do nothing at all, or it cranks over but won't fire up?
Totally quiet. No crank, no nothing, except all lights are normal.
Then turning key back off, and try again, and it goes.
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Not starting... Car cold after a night. Dry garage.
Gives a "click" somewhere in the engine bay.
Does not turn, won't even try. Just a click of a relay.
2021: Battery (Bosch S5 008 780A (EN) 77Ah 12V) - time for new? EDIT: New Exide EA640 64Ah/640A and all seems ok. Bosch lasted only 20 months (18500miles).
2021: New starter motor (Ridex 2S0383)
No more Bosch for me.