MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: momo.mk5GTI on February 18, 2020, 03:25:33 pm
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Hello, after quite a bit of discussion on the topic of low pressure, I found this forum. After much reading and topics left in half I couldn't find what I was looking for. I am new to your forum, and I am also the new owner of the Golf 5 GTI 2006 with the BWA motor code. (I also want to point out that I'm not from England, but I don't think that interferes.) Like most of you, I also ran into a low pressure problem that I couldn't find out exactly.
With your opinion and what you've been through over the years, I hope my problem is found.
Let me start from the beginning. My New Year's gift was brilliantly bright as a fireworks 'check engine' lamp, after diagnosis through a vag-com it turned out to be the P0441 error which was typical and a distinctly audible sound from the purge valve was heard. Which, after replacing the purge valve, the error reappeared. One day again in this forum, I saw the evap purge canister. Someone had mentioned getting out and shaking and also cleaning the plastic pipe that connects to the tank hose. I did that and magic. The error did not occur again (I think it may reappear after a while.)
One day, when I got home, I decided to lightly gas and boil, but the car started to rev at about 3500 to 5000, which made me gas more and more into each gear to see what was going on, at 1st and 2nd gears no problem but from third to above this tugging in time became when I pressed the throttle all the way as if I had removed my legs from the throttle the car does not want to take in the throttle, also when I push the throttle at low revs it is not the one as it was before. After a while the check engine light was illuminated in the diagnostics I saw P0087 Fuel rail system pressure too low. Reading Walking on some 2 3 garages I found that I must to change the piston of the high pressure pump (cam folower). But when I opened it, and with what I met at first, it terrified me, the folower was broken and the pump touched the camshaft but for my chance the camshaft is good. After changing the piston the car continued to be the same followed by a new pump, a new fuel filter, new spark plugs, but it has no effect the car just dies whichever one it wants to go on 4 as long as it goes. And I also want to point out that after the pump change, the response time to the 3rd has improved. But sometimes even at 2nd speed he doesn't want to make some adrenalin. I don't know what the problem may be, I just don't want to waste money on a part that already works. I'll try to post some pictures. I also want to point out that for the 2nd time I get the following error for the circuit I don't know if it matters but let me share it with you 'P000A Camshaft positioner slow response.' Thanks in advance for all your help.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/86488525_212683289843268_1090565356927320064_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQkCsY3eVcUEF0RT7nyWT9k-kyI8e5Mnl62vsMox6kgrKv5nG41TcgraZ5TugUeP0Qc&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=0287c3d51cf231a0cf4020be6e1b6167&oe=5ECB91CC)
And there is some others picture of the folower and pump.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/86969933_638207746992430_609650747738423296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQnsCMYq2CWhjPQ6SyCy69tiDZuvl0wk0GgVrsjBMoUZ1F1yGEk5_FGmya7OrSlsnYg&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=aa0ac6fb87a2a7ff6e237151ce2d4b54&oe=5EF7B443)
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/86746703_249827089341537_3939489276865019904_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQnAQyUJWOlvS6QZWkisam0AIQuVbQ99RMBLnn26pWsmR0kfbAXhyip8hWVU-V0VfTM&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=da584a6d3f4a0a1b2e8d265f577657f2&oe=5EBFE40B)
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/86932817_786863675056413_829576012713951232_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQmdCqot6CcnJNd2f54cNYS5J3QFjAhaxmA39tyCaI3iGqewuA_zsUrLFhXruZvuckk&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=4c717cc63f278950dfb7c62be3507206&oe=5EC9BF7F)
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/86806971_495782417980610_8090413334081306624_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQlkOzj36w1f4HL7unSrKgUX6inEDd2Sd3xd9JdRVA7IT5E095WBIK1iW69MveVEqgA&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=58f98b7e2d4f928777eb20db78cca62b&oe=5EBC9124)
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/86701666_176793456947357_1911256332141330432_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQlNxIV7i7PAFtxiCpWlueVA5GOrPBny3XHI-df3C0lVO7a2SrjnLkTchSwi3y5TKk4&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=9a47b945a62d95a616f84a22d9f95cb1&oe=5EF9723E)
And i also notice this pipe that have a litle bit something like rust.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/86443928_2824621504247667_2679406508566904832_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQkEpu4Bbj5-U57D3ToDcBHe1GZCflPFuZNqWz_MxrQi2pTUa6ovzoCGdJfaKnyAnPU&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=1285c736d140fed69bfcc008dccc5074&oe=5EC8D911)
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P000A Camshaft positioner slow response
is a code i'll be helping my mate look into on his edition 30. at first thoughts and from what I've read.. i think it will have something to do with the cam chain, tensioner and/or adjuster. also read it could be the seals buggered going into the adjuster from the chain covers plunger bit. sludgy oily type stuff in and around the area too, maybe the tensioners oil passage is sludgy and not tensioning properly!. A replacement of all the parts and a good clean sounds like it will be the most likely outcome anyway. When he first got the car, i see his cam chain on VCDS bouncing between 28kw and 27.5kw so i think he chain or tensioner might be on its way out, or the adjuster isnt doing its job correctly.. who knows!
you might have been lucky to put a new cam follower in, but dont rule out the pump plunger or camshaft fully as they could be more worn that what meets the eye. Sounds like you definitely have a fuel pressure problem so look into anything fuel related.. have you replaced the Fuel Filter?
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Looks like you need:
1. New HPFP
2. New HPFP follower
3. New intake cam
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P000A Camshaft positioner slow response
is a code i'll be helping my mate look into on his edition 30. at first thoughts and from what I've read.. i think it will have something to do with the cam chain, tensioner and/or adjuster. also read it could be the seals buggered going into the adjuster from the chain covers plunger bit. sludgy oily type stuff in and around the area too, maybe the tensioners oil passage is sludgy and not tensioning properly!. A replacement of all the parts and a good clean sounds like it will be the most likely outcome anyway. When he first got the car, i see his cam chain on VCDS bouncing between 28kw and 27.5kw so i think he chain or tensioner might be on its way out, or the adjuster isnt doing its job correctly.. who knows!
you might have been lucky to put a new cam follower in, but dont rule out the pump plunger or camshaft fully as they could be more worn that what meets the eye. Sounds like you definitely have a fuel pressure problem so look into anything fuel related.. have you replaced the Fuel Filter?
Thanks foy your answers, the next week if anything be good with wheather i will change my timing belt, if anyone knows how can i open the chain cap to see if everything is good or bad, because from chain cover i dont hear any noise. If there have a tutorial how to change the chain or simply open the cap?
For another fault, yes i change the fuel filter 2 or mybe today 3 weeks ago. Today i was at the garage just to speak witth my cousin and he said that the intank pump does not make enought pression and thats why the car sometimes not pull like 200hp. Sometimes car start a litle bit slow then what must be, also sometimes car puls like have nothing like issues or something. And what must be the intank fuel pump bars? Have you any sujestions for mark? Ive been at vw for the oem number 1K0 919 051 DB this is the number what they gives me for intank fuel pump.
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Looks like you need:
1. New HPFP
2. New HPFP follower
3. New intake cam
New folower and HPFP was installed already. For intake cam im not sure that i must to change because its not very bad what were see. But i will make photos when i open cap for chain. Thank you.
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P000A Camshaft positioner slow response
is a code i'll be helping my mate look into on his edition 30. at first thoughts and from what I've read.. i think it will have something to do with the cam chain, tensioner and/or adjuster. also read it could be the seals buggered going into the adjuster from the chain covers plunger bit. sludgy oily type stuff in and around the area too, maybe the tensioners oil passage is sludgy and not tensioning properly!. A replacement of all the parts and a good clean sounds like it will be the most likely outcome anyway. When he first got the car, i see his cam chain on VCDS bouncing between 28kw and 27.5kw so i think he chain or tensioner might be on its way out, or the adjuster isnt doing its job correctly.. who knows!
you might have been lucky to put a new cam follower in, but dont rule out the pump plunger or camshaft fully as they could be more worn that what meets the eye. Sounds like you definitely have a fuel pressure problem so look into anything fuel related.. have you replaced the Fuel Filter?
Have a look at the pics in the link below.
2006 is probably on the early metal oil control rings > plastic cross over year. That would definitely cause a slow response because the oil pressure would bleed off instead of moving the VVT adjuster as commanded. My 2007 ED30 had plastic rings when I stripped it down to replace the chain. I suspect 2005-2006 GTIs and ED30s had metal rings. Not a cheap fix if that's the problem :surprised:
Best thing to do before spending that kind of money is verify the fault. Log the VVT actual and requested angles and see how closely the numbers match. Is it measuring blocks 91 and 92? I can't remember. I've watched mine adjusting on the laptop and it's very fast to respond. 28ish KW at idle and light throttle but as soon as you give it load, it goes to zero or +1-3KW very quickly. If the actual lags way behind requested, I reckon it's worn out VVT parts as shown. A worn chain or solenoid would show up as different faults.
Stuck record time: Oil changes, oil changes, oil changes. Every 3-5K with the best oil you can afford!
https://www.akstuning.co.uk/genuine-oem-parts/575-genuine-vvt-repair-kit.html
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Thanks, i will look make some photos and write again. This things with chain make me fear... :confused:
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P000A Camshaft positioner slow response
is a code i'll be helping my mate look into on his edition 30. at first thoughts and from what I've read.. i think it will have something to do with the cam chain, tensioner and/or adjuster. also read it could be the seals buggered going into the adjuster from the chain covers plunger bit. sludgy oily type stuff in and around the area too, maybe the tensioners oil passage is sludgy and not tensioning properly!. A replacement of all the parts and a good clean sounds like it will be the most likely outcome anyway. When he first got the car, i see his cam chain on VCDS bouncing between 28kw and 27.5kw so i think he chain or tensioner might be on its way out, or the adjuster isnt doing its job correctly.. who knows!
you might have been lucky to put a new cam follower in, but dont rule out the pump plunger or camshaft fully as they could be more worn that what meets the eye. Sounds like you definitely have a fuel pressure problem so look into anything fuel related.. have you replaced the Fuel Filter?
Have a look at the pics in the link below.
2006 is probably on the early metal oil control rings > plastic cross over year. That would definitely cause a slow response because the oil pressure would bleed off instead of moving the VVT adjuster as commanded. My 2007 ED30 had plastic rings when I stripped it down to replace the chain. I suspect 2005-2006 GTIs and ED30s had metal rings. Not a cheap fix if that's the problem :surprised:
Best thing to do before spending that kind of money is verify the fault. Log the VVT actual and requested angles and see how closely the numbers match. Is it measuring blocks 91 and 92? I can't remember. I've watched mine adjusting on the laptop and it's very fast to respond. 28ish KW at idle and light throttle but as soon as you give it load, it goes to zero or +1-3KW very quickly. If the actual lags way behind requested, I reckon it's worn out VVT parts as shown. A worn chain or solenoid would show up as different faults.
Stuck record time: Oil changes, oil changes, oil changes. Every 3-5K with the best oil you can afford!
https://www.akstuning.co.uk/genuine-oem-parts/575-genuine-vvt-repair-kit.html
Hey Pudding,
Thanks for your info and advice as usual. I did check blocks 91 and 93 I think it was yesterday, after being left on idle for a while the chain was bouncing 26.5-27kw. Give it a little Rev and it was back up to 27.5-28kw the cam adjustment percentage was around or just over 6% which I guess is chain stretch. He’s going to do it all anyway, but as long as the VVT isn’t worn (like in the AKS photo below) I’ve told him the VVT should be fine and we’ll just do the seals, chain and tensioner etc.
Thanks again pud.
And for OP:
Apologies for half a thread hijack. But the chances are your fault P000A will be the same issue as my mates.
The cover simply unbolts and removes. There is a guide on this forum in the “how to” section.
Funny you should mention longer starting problems as he too has sometimes been getting that. Probably all linked.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hello a litle update to with photos.
Here is at idlle work.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/87415113_207006924018964_6646982440596275200_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQnMgxpsLc6EwhR1Voh81Z8FWRHTHGM3ilPk5irt_nJC4mGnrbr8nLPfWJtr7UKda6I&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=f16e5dcfb8b81dc958649ba5d47dd60f&oe=5EBCC951)
A litle bit gas.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/84296841_858213384629695_4957302543542648832_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQlY1qEL87Ws-lOOgmuaDskg3KS2hAjoodwvuQEKKTZdKcHq0HPRhmWWZSUSgqqpwFw&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=185e7e656bd2368d60c51719aa2106c6&oe=5EC6690A)
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/86983098_189326022333438_6196491253723430912_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQkwPjHBZZhir8qYdnL8dH5CStm71W8MyNTacome0HXqlBlgsPq9VnI3t0hs_kWNaAo&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=afba0054f5f0867a4eed769a6ae5345e&oe=5F035D76)
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/87532763_172977730816246_6504060192571785216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQkuXYEJwyP0_X-kSOm4Flo13B9ttrB-EPzakprHZaWNog89Tje4lk73Hrg4t18yqmM&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=4a97be7680a322acef7c4325d4ba9871&oe=5EC09C9A)
Here is the fuel pressure system too.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/87318008_830472864132120_9108883017790652416_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQmiR09Yr8deyaOwVOsaRKGdqs-dhUXpnYZFYGi9zmYX6biREhHD7ETx-34Gofh0M6Y&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=4ad984c669a6eaa56f0b778835c2f240&oe=5EF8F11E)
With a litle bit gas.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/84316297_1384643985053992_2576094647969382400_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQnv_26BkG00IQByfeprcZ9NS6CPhbAc0hLmchJ4BCXhElQkArsfGiQg-UXECsibFxU&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=22d172a8fd4994e9c39e692e9b26a067&oe=5EB84F00)
And i see that the Electric Fuel Pump 3/4 was not indicate something. Is this a normal?.
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Up...
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Hello a litle update too the topic. This morning when i start the car you know that hold 1200 1300rpm but sometimes like this morning after the start car not hold the rpm in high. Its just started normaly and then the rpm is down to normal.
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Hello a litle update too the topic. This morning when i start the car you know that hold 1200 1300rpm but sometimes like this morning after the start car not hold the rpm in high. Its just started normaly and then the rpm is down to normal.
I think this is normal. Mine does this when the outside temperature is particularly low (a few°C or less). Seem to remember being told the car decides which best start up mode (high idle or straight to normal) is best based on environmental conditions at the time orf starting.
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Hello a litle update too the topic. This morning when i start the car you know that hold 1200 1300rpm but sometimes like this morning after the start car not hold the rpm in high. Its just started normaly and then the rpm is down to normal.
I think this is normal. Mine does this when the outside temperature is particularly low (a few°C or less). Seem to remember being told the car decides which best start up mode (high idle or straight to normal) is best based on environmental conditions at the time orf starting.
both of my GTi's done this, i do believe this is meant to happen. (it seems to pick and choose wrong sometimes though)
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Hello a litle update too the topic. This morning when i start the car you know that hold 1200 1300rpm but sometimes like this morning after the start car not hold the rpm in high. Its just started normaly and then the rpm is down to normal.
I think this is normal. Mine does this when the outside temperature is particularly low (a few°C or less). Seem to remember being told the car decides which best start up mode (high idle or straight to normal) is best based on environmental conditions at the time orf starting.
Yes the outsite temp was 1⁰C or something like this. So i do not worry about this? If its normal. Thanks you. :happy2:
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So you have not replaced the intake cam yet?
If you don't do that then you will just eat through cam followers....
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So you have not replaced the intake cam yet?
If you don't do that then you will just eat through cam followers....
Not yet, i will open to see in what condition is intake cam. Normaly intake cam has not damage, like disforming or used when i change folower i looked for that. Today i will try with another intank fuel pump from another golf 5 gti and write again.
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Change the intake cam..... seriously!
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For intake cam im not sure that i must to change because its not very bad what were see. But i will make photos when i open cap for chain. Thank you.
You need the intake cam. Not only will it wear a new follower and damage its new hpfp piston quicker, but the hpfp pressure regulator will need to be open more to make the target rail pressure.
The wear on its tri-lobe is obvious in your pic. It gives you a clear sign that the peaks of its lobes are not as tall as they were when new or undamaged;
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49597723047_0624c970e6.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iyMi6Z)
New cam;
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48303059882_e7d439d812.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gAnNRh)
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Hello a litle update too the topic. This morning when i start the car you know that hold 1200 1300rpm but sometimes like this morning after the start car not hold the rpm in high. Its just started normaly and then the rpm is down to normal.
I think this is normal. Mine does this when the outside temperature is particularly low (a few°C or less). Seem to remember being told the car decides which best start up mode (high idle or straight to normal) is best based on environmental conditions at the time orf starting.
Yep, normal. Idle speed vs ambient temp is not consistent through the 4 seasons and can be ignored. There are a complex set of parameters in the ECU that govern the idle speed vs ambient temp, which is largely related to EGR (Exhaust Gas Recurculation) and cat warm-up. Older VWs used a combination of cam phasing and an air pump (SAI - Secondary Air Injection) to manage that, but the TFSI engines seem to just use a combination of more precise fuelling & idle speed instead.
The main thing to focus on is engine smoothness. Doesn't matter what the idle speed is, so long as the engine is smooth and responds quickly to pedal requests. TFSI engines throw their toys out of the pram if coils, injectors, plugs and oil pressure aren't up to snuff. It lets you know immediately if there's a fault.
And yeah, that cam is f'cked. I'd be temped to throw a new head on it from VW. Comes with cams, VVT and chain gear etc. A new head also restores compression providing the bottom end is still tight. Improved off boost torque and engine braking.
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Hello a litle update to the topic, ive changed the intank fuel pump with used one, just for try and definetly car pulls beter than my pump, but after a litle test at the highway, when i was out and put the gas, first i dont have the problem car just flyed like before :driver: and i dont know i was make like 160 180km/h and no cut out. After test when i take the highway out, its cut a new at 110 120km/h. :confused: (when i push the gas the rpm just stays at the same). I dont know what happens i was changed fuel filter but not with the original VW, i think the fuel filter bars are much low than be must. :thinking: and i see thah thu hpfp pump is with letter L at the end mine was with F. (And the seelers must be send me with letter J) we also looked that J is compatible with my car and yes it was compatible, but with L and dont know. Is that can be play something. And after the test when i puted back my pump, its pulls like other fuel pump. And now im with my fuel pump, car goes beter but have this cut out... i cant understand this.
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For intake cam im not sure that i must to change because its not very bad what were see. But i will make photos when i open cap for chain. Thank you.
You need the intake cam. Not only will it wear a new follower and damage its new hpfp piston quicker, but the hpfp pressure regulator will need to be open more to make the target rail pressure.
The wear on its tri-lobe is obvious in your pic. It gives you a clear sign that the peaks of its lobes are not as tall as they were when new or undamaged;
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49597723047_0624c970e6.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iyMi6Z)
New cam;
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48303059882_e7d439d812.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gAnNRh)
I understand, what is the price of this cam? Must be the original one or aftermarket will done the same job. And what is the ref. number? And what you mean i didn understand that ' but the hpfp pressure regulator will need to be open more to make the target rail pressure.'
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Hi @momo.mk5GTI (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=61094)
What @ROH ECHT (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3794) means is:If the cam lobe is worn then the High Pressure Fuel Pump is not mechanically operating how it should as the pump isnt being "pumped" in far enough by the lobe. Because of this the Fuel Regulator will need to allow more fuel going through (staying open) to reach the engine/Fuel Rails requested pressure.
The only thing i'm a little unsure on: if the pump has been changed and no real difference was made then it rules the pump out. You say the car pulls fine one minute and not so good the next minute. if the lobe was worn out and causing the above - would it not cause a problem all the time not just sometimes?
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Hi @momo.mk5GTI (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=61094)
What @ROH ECHT (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3794) means is:If the cam lobe is worn then the High Pressure Fuel Pump is not mechanically operating how it should as the pump isnt being "pumped" in far enough by the lobe. Because of this the Fuel Regulator will need to allow more fuel going through (staying open) to reach the engine/Fuel Rails requested pressure.
The only thing i'm a little unsure on: if the pump has been changed and no real difference was made then it rules the pump out. You say the car pulls fine one minute and not so good the next minute. if the lobe was worn out and causing the above - would it not cause a problem all the time not just sometimes?
Hello muff1991 thank you for the answer, yes exactly what amazes me too is that sometimes the car goes all the way and nothing but after pushing it about 10 15 minutes on the highway and doing high speeds, it just goes into service mode and stops the throttle , even if I didn't press the throttle, it just sits at its rpm and after a short while, it did, I had it done before changing the folower and the hpfp. Because it is already 138xxx km and I am doubtful that it will enter service mode because of the timing belt or the chain (since I had a fault with the chain and they told me about the cover payment I will order them and change them). And the other thing is that the filter is not original from vw but it is purflux and it reads 3 or 4 bars, which makes me think that the filter cannot deliver enough fuel to the engine. Once the check light comes on, even when the drive is normal. very slight tingling that is almost not felt on a rough road. I just don't know where the problem is. I was looking and asking about the problem of the cam but cars with the problem cam work in a completely different way and when i was open the hpfp the folower was wear good to the cam. I just don't know where to look for the problem.
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If the fuel filter hasn't been replaced for the updated 6bar filter, or never been replaced at all.. its a cheap enough part to replace and try :happy2:
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Hello everyone, because of the lack of time i could not play with the car and write here. A week ago, I removed the high-pressure sensor and cleaned it with a WD40. After putting back the power on the first 3 4 hard riding it was as unique as before, but after a short while it went back to the mode it is now. Today I took a few laps with the laptop, I also posted a schedule and this was noticed. When car is cut of fuel this thing goes very down at mybe 60 or more down when he upper the values car is back to his force and continur to up the rpm's when is stationary he is at -5xx -6xx values. When i push i see at the graphic, this goes high, while im riding and he's go down car cut of power.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/91753569_1133369290344589_3870022651913175040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=ubhQun1orrgAX8JmQ5R&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=1121387dedffe3022861eb61948bdf7b&oe=5EAA4426)
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Have you changed the intake cam yet?
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Have you changed the intake cam yet?
No i dont change the intake cam, and im not gonna change because probleme is not there. I was out folower for inspect if it have a contact with lobe, and when i was out it the folower and lobe make a contact like my friend gti is same, If i have problem with intake cam, car wiĺ not be same as before sometimes. He will be poor in every gear. Unfortunetly i cant make anything because i have an accident and dont know what expert will say. I think i was said before that im not change timing belt and timing chain yet. And also i have a oil leak from valve cover and add1L oil every mybe 3000km. I have a litle bit work then if its not gone i will think for the intake cam as you said. But for now i dont think that the cam is problem. But thank you for your help i will keep in mind. :happy2:
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Look, I believe you do need a new intake cam, but if you do not accept this...the rail pressure is failing you. This can be related to more than one issue.
The FPRV; 06D 133 400 A may be unable to hold rail pressure and may be releasing fuel back into the low side.
The high pressure outlet valve on the bottom of the hpfp may not be sealing to retain rail pressure.
One or more fuel injectors are sticking open.
The hpfp regulator isn't working, but you replaced the hpfp with a new one, right?
The "fuel pressure sensor-high" on the rail is failed, but you replaced it too, right?
The low pressure is insufficient; meaning the lift pump or fuel filter is failed or incorrect(not 6.6 bar regulated filter).
The lift pump PWM controller is failing when warm/hot.
Or, the intake cam tri-lobe is worn...and your picture proves that.
BTW...I cannot make out the pics of the vcds screen you post as they become fuzzy when I zoom on it. Cannot tell which MB you are on or tell what the data reads. Please try getting in closer for those shots in the future.
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Look, I believe you do need a new intake cam, but if you do not accept this...the rail pressure is failing you. This can be related to more than one issue.
The FPRV; 06D 133 400 A may be unable to hold rail pressure and may be releasing fuel back into the low side.
The high pressure outlet valve on the bottom of the hpfp may not be sealing to retain rail pressure.
One or more fuel injectors are sticking open.
The hpfp regulator isn't working, but you replaced the hpfp with a new one, right?
The "fuel pressure sensor-high" on the rail is failed, but you replaced it too, right?
The low pressure is insufficient; meaning the lift pump or fuel filter is failed or incorrect(not 6.6 bar regulated filter).
The lift pump PWM controller is failing when warm/hot.
Or, the intake cam tri-lobe is worn...and your picture proves that.
BTW...I cannot make out the pics of the vcds screen you post as they become fuzzy when I zoom on it. Cannot tell which MB you are on or tell what the data reads. Please try getting in closer for those shots in the future.
I was changed hpfp with new this is true, i think i was post it somewhere that the hpfp the last letter is different then mine, i dont know if this play something.
The fuel filter was changed with NOT OEM but 4.0 bar filter i was market this too.
The fuel pressure regulator was cleaned with WD-40 and placed at the rail. (NOT CHANGED with new one)
This FPRV as you said can not be hold the pressure at the rail this must be true because sometimes when i start the car he turn a litle bit longer then must turn until start.
Oke then i have a question, if the cam lobe is worn why sometimes power back at any gear? And why when i push slowly the gas pedal car runing well? As everyone said if my cam is worn car will not running good at any other gears? When llobe is worn car has no power right?
Sorry abaout picture quality when i upload the quality drop down i dont know why.
https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/91711718_821418891704115_6447991692330008576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=4BkPP4EhzUsAX_6LRco&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=b815fc2f66fd1fde2461fbdc246ee4de&oe=5EAF896A
At the group 103 the second window with name 'Fuel Pressure Regulator' values drop down i dont remember whic was the values he drop very very down like 50 or 60 mybe i was alone and drive at the same time cant see everything, then car cut of power when he up the values car goes better.
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Your cam lobe is bad, you can clearly see it in the picture.
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If you are pushing the pedal slowly then it likely that the HPFP is able to meet the requested fuel pressure. If you problems are occurring when driving hard then its because the HPFP cannot meet the requested pressure.
Do a log on the car... in 3rd gear from 1000rpm-6000rpm.
Record...
1/ RPM
2/ requested fuel pressure
3/actual fuel pressure
The lobe on the intake cam is worn. A worn lobe will result in the HPFP not being about to meet the requested pressure. It will also mean that your follower will wear very quickly.
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I was changed hpfp with new this is true, i think i was post it somewhere that the hpfp the last letter is different then mine, i dont know if this play something. Last letter change only means a revision change. These revision or letter changes can simply mean location the pump was manufactured and nothing more.
The fuel filter was changed with NOT OEM but 4.0 bar filter i was market this too. That is incorrect, it should not be a 4 bar regulated filter...it should be a 6.6 bar filter. You should definitely correct that.
The fuel pressure regulator was cleaned with WD-40 and placed at the rail. (NOT CHANGED with new one) You sprayed the regulator on top with WD-40?
This FPRV as you said can not be hold the pressure at the rail this must be true because sometimes when i start the car he turn a litle bit longer then must turn until start.
Oke then i have a question, if the cam lobe is worn why sometimes power back at any gear? And why when i push slowly the gas pedal car runing well? As everyone said if my cam is worn car will not running good at any other gears? When llobe is worn car has no power right? On light throttle, the hpfp only makes 50 bar and up...at full throttle is when it needs to make max rail pressure. Yours may be able to do so for a bit but is likely not able to maintain the rail pressure with its worn tri-lobe.
Sorry abaout picture quality when i upload the quality drop down i dont know why. I still cannot read it...closer might help.
https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/91711718_821418891704115_6447991692330008576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=4BkPP4EhzUsAX_6LRco&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=b815fc2f66fd1fde2461fbdc246ee4de&oe=5EAF896A
At the group 103 the second window with name 'Fuel Pressure Regulator' values drop down i dont remember whic was the values he drop very very down like 50 or 60 mybe i was alone and drive at the same time cant see everything, then car cut of power when he up the values car goes better. This is because the regulator is unable to maintain requested rail pressure. You need a new intake cam.
You can use electrical cleaner on the regulator on top of the hpfp that you once sprayed with WD-40...but more importantly, you need to address the 4 bar regulated filter you installed and install a 6.6 bar filter. If the problem persists, give it a new intake cam.
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If you are pushing the pedal slowly then it likely that the HPFP is able to meet the requested fuel pressure. If you problems are occurring when driving hard then its because the HPFP cannot meet the requested pressure.
Do a log on the car... in 3rd gear from 1000rpm-6000rpm.
Record...
1/ RPM
2/ requested fuel pressure
3/actual fuel pressure
The lobe on the intake cam is worn. A worn lobe will result in the HPFP not being about to meet the requested pressure. It will also mean that your follower will wear very quickly.
Coud you please tell me how to make a log ile which is the values at vcds? Thanks.
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Fantastic guide here.....
http://www.goapr.co.uk/support/datalogging.php
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I was changed hpfp with new this is true, i think i was post it somewhere that the hpfp the last letter is different then mine, i dont know if this play something. Last letter change only means a revision change. These revision or letter changes can simply mean location the pump was manufactured and nothing more.
The fuel filter was changed with NOT OEM but 4.0 bar filter i was market this too. That is incorrect, it should not be a 4 bar regulated filter...it should be a 6.6 bar filter. You should definitely correct that.
The fuel pressure regulator was cleaned with WD-40 and placed at the rail. (NOT CHANGED with new one) You sprayed the regulator on top with WD-40?
This FPRV as you said can not be hold the pressure at the rail this must be true because sometimes when i start the car he turn a litle bit longer then must turn until start.
Oke then i have a question, if the cam lobe is worn why sometimes power back at any gear? And why when i push slowly the gas pedal car runing well? As everyone said if my cam is worn car will not running good at any other gears? When llobe is worn car has no power right? On light throttle, the hpfp only makes 50 bar and up...at full throttle is when it needs to make max rail pressure. Yours may be able to do so for a bit but is likely not able to maintain the rail pressure with its worn tri-lobe.
Sorry abaout picture quality when i upload the quality drop down i dont know why. I still cannot read it...closer might help.
https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/91711718_821418891704115_6447991692330008576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=4BkPP4EhzUsAX_6LRco&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=b815fc2f66fd1fde2461fbdc246ee4de&oe=5EAF896A
At the group 103 the second window with name 'Fuel Pressure Regulator' values drop down i dont remember whic was the values he drop very very down like 50 or 60 mybe i was alone and drive at the same time cant see everything, then car cut of power when he up the values car goes better. This is because the regulator is unable to maintain requested rail pressure. You need a new intake cam.
You can use electrical cleaner on the regulator on top of the hpfp that you once sprayed with WD-40...but more importantly, you need to address the 4 bar regulated filter you installed and install a 6.6 bar filter. If the problem persists, give it a new intake cam.
Thanks for all the information that you write line per line. I m not spreyed the regulator electric area with WD-40 :D
Spreyed this area. I think this is the first regulator not updated one.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-0/p280x280/92350802_976688176062292_5112047380539113472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_oc=AQlbUC5tVZ5IsG6bzvULaylIyUhZzqd98EMFtr7_yiG1o0bpsMVntgdrXO13nug2M7s&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=963283d198d20a9205e2a70a8a236e41&oe=5EB36310)
There because i make e photo with my phone. Sorry about 2nd picture.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/92391748_1272247676300236_6754944316256288768_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_oc=AQkSWt4P6n0bkxX3PHBgReUgcXWopPuKy4W51_bT6l6QYpBatLW1OM8bVMe8G__Spnw&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=1229dac80386f0b4cc275ec76c3f2d07&oe=5EB21B38)
And today i make a litle test i drive with unpluged MAF sensor car runs well, much beter then with pluged maf sensor. I was test it at 3rd and 4th gear there s no fuel cuts and runs beter and turbo sounds a litle bit much more then with pluged maf. I think maf sensor is died.
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Remind us... are you getting any error codes?
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Thanks for all the information that you write line per line. I m not spreyed the regulator electric area with WD-40 :D
Spreyed this area. I think this is the first regulator not updated one. (That isn't the pressure regulator...it is the fuel low pressure sensor I believe. So is it mounted on the left side of the HPFP? The regulator is the black portion on top of the hpfp, I circled it in the picture below...the arrow points to where the fuel low pressure sensor goes. Also, it looks different than all I have seen up to now. AXX engine?)
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-0/p280x280/92350802_976688176062292_5112047380539113472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_oc=AQlbUC5tVZ5IsG6bzvULaylIyUhZzqd98EMFtr7_yiG1o0bpsMVntgdrXO13nug2M7s&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=963283d198d20a9205e2a70a8a236e41&oe=5EB36310)
There because i make e photo with my phone. Sorry about 2nd picture.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/92391748_1272247676300236_6754944316256288768_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_oc=AQkSWt4P6n0bkxX3PHBgReUgcXWopPuKy4W51_bT6l6QYpBatLW1OM8bVMe8G__Spnw&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=1229dac80386f0b4cc275ec76c3f2d07&oe=5EB21B38)
And today i make a litle test i drive with unpluged MAF sensor car runs well, much beter then with pluged maf sensor. I was test it at 3rd and 4th gear there s no fuel cuts and runs beter and turbo sounds a litle bit much more then with pluged maf. I think maf sensor is died. Don't jump to that conclusion just yet. For me, will you log lambda with the MAF plugged and unplugged. Try to provide data from the same rev range and throttle position. If you see it run better with the MAF unplugged...it typically has a leak after the MAF. Lambda should show leaner with MAF unplugged and richer with the MAF plugged.
You can check here, scroll down to groups 103 and 106 to see the range they should be and there are tips as to a probable cause if outside those ranges. http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/2.0l_TFSI_(AXX/BGB/BPJ/BPY/BWA)
Circled is the pressure regulator and arrow is so to see if this is where you see the sensor is that you thought was a regulator;
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49751661142_3cd346b3d8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iNogx5)
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APR groups were given, and here are all VCDS groups; https://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/
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Thanks for all the information that you write line per line. I m not spreyed the regulator electric area with WD-40 :D
Spreyed this area. I think this is the first regulator not updated one. (That isn't the pressure regulator...it is the fuel low pressure sensor I believe. So is it mounted on the left side of the HPFP? The regulator is the black portion on top of the hpfp, I circled it in the picture below...the arrow points to where the fuel low pressure sensor goes. Also, it looks different than all I have seen up to now. AXX engine?)
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-0/p280x280/92350802_976688176062292_5112047380539113472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_oc=AQlbUC5tVZ5IsG6bzvULaylIyUhZzqd98EMFtr7_yiG1o0bpsMVntgdrXO13nug2M7s&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=963283d198d20a9205e2a70a8a236e41&oe=5EB36310)
There because i make e photo with my phone. Sorry about 2nd picture.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/92391748_1272247676300236_6754944316256288768_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_oc=AQkSWt4P6n0bkxX3PHBgReUgcXWopPuKy4W51_bT6l6QYpBatLW1OM8bVMe8G__Spnw&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&oh=1229dac80386f0b4cc275ec76c3f2d07&oe=5EB21B38)
And today i make a litle test i drive with unpluged MAF sensor car runs well, much beter then with pluged maf sensor. I was test it at 3rd and 4th gear there s no fuel cuts and runs beter and turbo sounds a litle bit much more then with pluged maf. I think maf sensor is died. Don't jump to that conclusion just yet. For me, will you log lambda with the MAF plugged and unplugged. Try to provide data from the same rev range and throttle position. If you see it run better with the MAF unplugged...it typically has a leak after the MAF. Lambda should show leaner with MAF unplugged and richer with the MAF plugged.
You can check here, scroll down to groups 103 and 106 to see the range they should be and there are tips as to a probable cause if outside those ranges. http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/2.0l_TFSI_(AXX/BGB/BPJ/BPY/BWA)
Circled is the pressure regulator and arrow is so to see if this is where you see the sensor is that you thought was a regulator;
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49751661142_3cd346b3d8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iNogx5)
The sensor i show is the Fuel rail pressure sensor. I recieve the HPFP full with all the sensor only thin i was take from mine was a this thing.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdataton.net%2Fvw%2Fengine_bay%2Fhpfp%2Fhpfp-new_old-comparison.jpg&hash=d1a8978a9cdcea247f6c59021b8b46109f3e6ac4)
And yes i get the same error code P0087 Fuel pressure/system too low
When i clean the fault code, at group 103 Fuel pressure reguletor values are on positive when the i get the error they pass to negative.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/92462143_543969699852681_1009086112175489024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_oc=AQlXiW3ymReakycayQXxLKOMRSYzfzdb8-Rg7Lpy_Ktlqo3f5zPgS2BfSJmDR-DtXlU&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_zor=9&_nc_ht=scontent.xx&oh=eb324bc568138106c253f7b5355f1d7e&oe=5EB662DF)
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And here is the videos what i make.
1-https://youtu.be/vo2vMrTX-58
2-https://youtu.be/_zhQl_T3uXM
I searched at group 10. to find actual and requested pressure but nothing find.
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So at 4400RPM you have a 60bar difference between your specified and the actual rail pressure.
This is your problem.
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So at 4400RPM you have a 60bar difference between your specified and the actual rail pressure.
This is your problem.
So with simple words? Is this mean a fuel rail pressure sensor?
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What error codes do you have?
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I get this error code but check engine light is not on dashboard.
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s1080x2048/92823635_2851300831633283_9120473502434983936_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_oc=AQn18xj4YdCkd1pp87CNNGbxzPEth4OeiqWsgILul4OB0qcKbKFw4FpqX05Xh6e1Pig&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=548f31b0757be915f3118fabc39e331c&oe=5EB67F31)
And today i see this error, it appears for second time while i was clean faults. (i erased it yesterday when i make the video).
(https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s1080x2048/92661288_453206778791542_9005388990450237440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_oc=AQnqzTgJiL7-Y1i-XMJYPRThR3LxKr-Aj00C8aim8UX3iSN7uwHhDHpSjjEDmU3LOaA&_nc_ht=scontent.fbru2-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=89bae63df4b22150d4bf13a07b46a703&oe=5EB6193E)
I will open the chain cap after quarantine. If i open it i think there have a seal gasket. Every comment is usefull for me now.. Thanks.
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P0087 and the fact your hpfp is unable to make requested pressure puts my thinking right where we started...your tri-lobe on the cam is worn too much. Your hpfp piston is a bit worn as well unless you added a new hpfp, can't remember right now and don't want to go back and look. But I believe you said you have a new hpfp, is this true? If there isn't a loss of fuel pressure due to a leaky injector or a failed FPRV(rail pressure relief valve)...then its your intake cam and the wear on the tri-lobe.
I doubt it is the high or low pressure sensor failing because data for both sensors shows what the they are reporting. You can go ahead and replace the sensors if you like, but I believe you will eventually need to replace that intake cam. The data more than confirms that.
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You need a new intake cam.
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Thanks to all mates for help me to resolve the problem, after re-examining the camshaft, we saw that on one side it is much more worn out than the other (for that I was wrong that the shaft is in good condition because i dont turn it) it is scratched slightly but it cannot be felt with fingers and even through a small opening not many things can be seen. But what bothers me is after this camshaft is changed, what can happen badly. My logic is this, the current camshaft humps are already in miles away and slightly worn aren't they? Should the head valves hoses must be corrected before the new shaft is fitted, because the valves are right now fit in their place, but with the new shaft fitted will any of the valves remain open or have problems with the valves? That scared me the most. Are there any mates who have changed the camshaft what are the risks I want to know more information and I will decide what to do. I do not want to overhaul a car that is already 14 years old. Excuse me if my question is stupid I feel a little annoyed with my reasoning and questions but I'm not too rich to put my month pay in the car. Thanks.
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The camshaft uses hydraulic lifters to open the valves, which automatically adjust with oil pressure. The camshaft lobes push down on rollers that are attached to the hydraulic lifters which press down on the valves. I doubt there will be any damage in there unless a piece of you broken cam follower found its way in there. It is best practice to also change the cam chain and adjuster while replacing the camshaft as you have to take it off anyway.
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The camshaft uses hydraulic lifters to open the valves, which automatically adjust with oil pressure. The camshaft lobes push down on rollers that are attached to the hydraulic lifters which press down on the valves. I doubt there will be any damage in there unless a piece of you broken cam follower found its way in there. It is best practice to also change the cam chain and adjuster while replacing the camshaft as you have to take it off anyway.
thanks for the info, yes the chain and the tensioner will also be replaced as the timing belt water pump rollers and the belt with the dynamo tensioner, if anyone has a pdf file or some link about the principle of how valves work they can publish it I want to understand how valves and camshafts work.
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No need to worry much about the valve lobes. They will not wear near as much as what the cam follower did to the tri-lobe because the rockers for the valves have rollers on them. VW had an extended warranty and cars were getting new intake cams with up to 120k miles without any worry to the performance of the valves.
If you want an engine pdf to keep...download this; http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_337.pdf
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No need to worry much about the valve lobes. They will not wear near as much as what the cam follower did to the tri-lobe because the rockers for the valves have rollers on them. VW had an extended warranty and cars were getting new intake cams with up to 120k miles without any worry to the performance of the valves.
If you want an engine pdf to keep...download this; http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_337.pdf
Thanks, i did not understand exactly how they works but now i have an idea how these rocker arms works. So i want to ask too if the camshaft must be original from VW or i can purchase it from another manufacturer, any sugestion which mark can be usefull? Or i see at ebay has some 'OEM' VW parts but i dont know how many is 'OEM' parts.
This is the link
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333266036290
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Hello, coud someone tell me the ref number of exhaust camshaft, and any suggestion for a camshafts kits. I think im gonna change the exhaust camshaft too. I think car will run much more better with new camshafts. Thanks.
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This number is for the BPY in the US "for all 2.0t FSI" exhaust cam. I searched using this number to see if it comes up as the same for yours; 06F 109 102 E
Same as the BWA; https://www.autopartspro.co.uk/carparts-suche?keyword=+++++06F+109+102+E&maker_id=121&model_id=6245&car_id=23795
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This number is for the BPY in the US "for all 2.0t FSI" exhaust cam. I searched using this number to see if it comes up as the same for yours; 06F 109 102 E
Same as the BWA; https://www.autopartspro.co.uk/carparts-suche?keyword=+++++06F+109+102+E&maker_id=121&model_id=6245&car_id=23795
I found for the BWA engine too. But i think its the same as the other one, this motor BWA is the same as the Audi, so if i cant find for VW i can search for Audi.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-OEM-VW-Golf-GTI-Passat-2-0-TFSI-intake-camshaft-Original-EA113-BWA-AXX/233286398506?hash=item3650f3f22a:g:6xcAAOSwTU5dKW54
This is the original camshaft from VW i want to find OEM camshaft for exhaust side too. I'm a litle bit scared of fact if i replace it with in aftermarket camshafts it not be runing long as the original parts (and mybe dont given the real power). So i prefer to take this one (the link is up there) to intake side and hope to find one OEM to exhaust side too. And for the exhaust side i must to search with this OEM number? (06F 109 102 E).