MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => How to Guides / Troubleshooting => Topic started by: GTiWILL on July 21, 2019, 12:27:15 am
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Since I bought my MK5 GTI, I’ve had an issue where the clutch pedal will sometimes stick on the way back up again, needing a toe underneath to flick it back up again. It often did this whilst turning/just after a right turn. I knew when it was going to happen as it would feel like it had lost a bit of pressure when I depressed the pedal. I also found if I put my foot a little on the clutch pedal and then started to jab the accelerator, the clutch would pulsate up and down again in time to pressing the accelerator.
I was worried it might be crank walk after reading up a little on the symptoms along with other posts from people who’ve replaced the whole clutch system chasing the same symptoms as I had, only to never fix the fault. I also thought it may be the pressure plate or the clutch slave cylinder.
To start with, I bled the system and changed the master cylinder which improved things a little - but only temporarily.
I then stumbled across a post about input shaft play on the early MK5 GTI’s. What happens is the input shaft bearing starts to eat into the gearbox case, causing play within the gearbox. Symptoms are difficulty selecting gears, whining from the gearbox, clutch drag and, certainly in my case, a clutch that sometimes sticks on the way back up.
The fix is either a new gearbox, or, for £28 and an hour of your time DIY, a gearbox shim kit from these guys
https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/02m-02q-gearbox-input-shaft-shim-kit-and-end-cap.html
It’s an easy-ish DIY job. Simply jack the car up, remove wheel, remove arch lining, remove plastic end cap from gearbox, remove snap ring from input shaft bearing, insert between 1-3 shims depending on the play (I did 2) , re-insert snap ring, put new plastic end cap on gearbox, fit arch lining, fit wheel and then bask in your own self glory.
I believe this problem affects early MK5 GTI’s rather than the later ones as they had the shim fitted at factory. I think some other VAG cars with the 02M, 02Q gearbox are also affected.
I drove my car for an hour after doing the work and I couldn’t stop grinning. It’s made a massive difference and I have zero problems with the clutch sticking now.
So in summary, if your clutch keeps sticking it might be due to play on your input shaft bearing. For £28 and an hour of your time, you are as well doing this before you start pulling the gearbox off thinking you’ve got clutch slave cylinder, pressure plate, crank walk or dual mass flywheel issues.
Here’s the how to vid;
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6WWChWV9Rqw
Enjoy, GTiWILL :happy2:
P.S my car is a ‘55 plate manual with 151,000 miles for reference.
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This is very useful GTiWILL, thanks for this. My 2005 GTI have sticking clutch pedal issues as well, I had a full brake fluid change done recently and Clutch & DMF replacement not long ago which didn't solve the problem so I gave up and lived with it. But seeing how easy this looks to solve the problem I may give this one a go.
By chance can you tell us which kit you ordered - the 79.35mm one or the 84.5mm?
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This is very useful GTiWILL, thanks for this. My 2005 GTI have sticking clutch pedal issues as well, I had a full brake fluid change done recently and Clutch & DMF replacement not long ago which didn't solve the problem so I gave up and lived with it. But seeing how easy this looks to solve the problem I may give this one a go.
By chance can you tell us which kit you ordered - the 79.35mm one or the 84.5mm?
It was the 79.5mm kit for mine but I’d check yours by measuring it.
It’s definitely a worthwhile mod. It’s changed mine like you wouldn’t believe. Let me know how you get on!
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nice write up @GTiWILL (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=41162)
very well explained, problem & solution all in one! enjoyed my read.. and will sure look out for that, I have heard of it before but was some extra symptoms you listed, which make total sense!
thanks :happy2:
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nice write up @GTiWILL (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=41162)
very well explained, problem & solution all in one! enjoyed my read.. and will sure look out for that, I have heard of it before but was some extra symptoms you listed, which make total sense!
thanks :happy2:
Thanks bud, hopefully it will help others who are suffering from the same fate.
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Top post @GTiWILL (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=41162) :congrats:
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clutch pedal shuld be level with brake when not pressed
if its lifting very quickly --like half way --maybe cable is adjusted wrong and over centereing the clutch causing it to bind?
full clear about 1-2 "off floor would be correct presuming std clutch
my site hdfkuoy78qerygsadhsdh.com (http://hdfkuoy78qerygsadhsdh.com)
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clutch pedal shuld be level with brake when not pressed
if its lifting very quickly --like half way --maybe cable is adjusted wrong and over centereing the clutch causing it to bind?
full clear about 1-2 "off floor would be correct presuming std clutch
my site hdfkuoy78qerygsadhsdh.com (http://hdfkuoy78qerygsadhsdh.com)
Clutch pedal should be level with the brake pedal yes. But can I just point out - these clutch pedals are all operated via a hydraulic master cylinder not a cable as seen is older/other cars.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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^^^ I haven’t clicked that link but I think it’s possibly spam.
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Nice :happy2:
You can easily check crank end float by levering on the crank pulley. There should be barely any movement at all. If the pulley pops out a good 3-4mm, it's engine out time as the thrust bearing is shot.
FWIW.... apart from the pedal sticking down, some sports clutches like the earlier Helix kit for example, can exhibit exactly the same symptoms.
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Hi all,
Since installing an R154 conversion, the clutch release point is right at the top of the pedal stroke and makes for difficult driving.
I know you can adjust the rod from the back of the master cylinder, but can anybody guide me as to which way to turn the rod and how to set the pedal stop?
TIA
Josh
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I’ve got this problem with mine - 113,000 miles, AXX engine - can’t remember which gearbox code off hand... itms overdue a brake bleed, so will bleed the clutch too while I’m there (having seen few helpful threads re the need to brim the brake fluid reservoir as the clutch filler is above the max line....). Not holding out much hope - as too simple a fix! So may go down this route too, and will report back.
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Just done this on my sons mk5. Result, nice one.
I had read it before and only when he mentioned it did I show him the post. He read it and was all giddy, yes that is it mine does that. :jumpmove:
When he was under there he noticed the intercooler pipe had come off and found a plastic cap that needed screwing back in probably causing the oil leak. Triple result.
My son has not been doing so well lately, bit of stress due to work etc and has been a bit lacking in the maintenance dept and has been fed up with his Golf (and everything else really) so this has been a nice cheap fix.
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Good to hear - trying to get through some diy jobs this morning/afternoon inside - then going to have a bash at this myself!
Hope things get better for your son - get him a remap to put a real smile on his face!
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Mine’s fixed too!
OP - thank you SO much for posting this, you total legend. Car is now drivable - and avoided unnecessary time and cost chasing slave cylinder issues etc.
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No worries boys. I’m glad it has helped a few people out :happy2: :happy2:
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:happy2:
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Bit of a bump - the sticking clutch pedal has now returned.... seemed fine ever since October when I inserted a shim. Anyone have ideas? I’ve only down 6,000 miles and can’t believe it’s worn enough for another shim.
MNy thanks!
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Slave & master cylinders OK?
If they are, probably the gearbox.
The 02Q manual box uses a plain roller bearing to support the input shaft, which is not designed for thrust loads. They rely on the shim to take up the slack, but the bearing itself can wear out and create its own additional play that no amount of shimming will take out. It’s a serious issue with heavy aftermarket clutches. Eventually the play gets so bad, the gears start rubbing each other, causing difficulties shifting and lots of noise.
It’s a crap bit of design really. I’m surprised no one has come up with an 02J taper bearing conversion....which *is* designed to handle thrust loadings.
Went through all this myself and ended up fitting the box from a newer car. A 2011 Scirocco TSI. ‘KZS’ code....to keep the ratios near as dammit the same.
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Sorry to resurrect this post, but I want to thank the OP for supplying this information :smiley:
I recently bought a 2005 mk5 GTi which had an intermittent sticky clutch peddle (slow to return).
Without this post, I probably be swapping out slave/master cylinders, clutch's and gearboxes trying to cure this problem.
But a shim kit for £28 completely resolved it. :jumpmove:
Thanks again.
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I have a 08' GTI, and the clutch started sticking, is 08' considered to be a newer GTI, or could this be a fix for my clutch sticking as well?
If not, any ideas what could cause the sticking.
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I have a 08' GTI, and the clutch started sticking, is 08' considered to be a newer GTI, or could this be a fix for my clutch sticking as well?
If not, any ideas what could cause the sticking.
Did you try this fix in the end? Mines a 2008 and has the sticky clutch. New master and slave cylinder fitted with no luck.
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For what it’s worth - the shim kit fixed mine for a year or so - and when it returned it transpired to be because of ancient brake fluid in the clutch line. Perfect ever since a proper bleed through.
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Has anyone had this issue where its not the shims and the master cylinder is new alongside new fluid and a braided hose?
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Hey @svvg (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=44494), apologies for reviving this ancient thread but I wondered if you could help with your experience.
I've had the exact same symptoms, discussed in my post here (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,133694.15.html). In essence, sticking after right turns only, did a shim fix which lasted for 1000km, I've now tried to insert a second shim but there was no play and no room to get the second shim in.
I've checked for crankshaft end float (nothing that I could see), and there's no scratches visible on the flywheel with the sump removed.
I have had the brake fluid changed for racing fluid earlier this year but I assume the bleed didn't involve the clutch bleed valve (the clutch issue still appeared on track, and the pedal stuck for as much as 1.5 seconds after the hardest right turn), so from your experience would you say that's the next best thing to do?
Cheers :smiley:
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Hi - I’d have a look at bleeding the clutch properly - if you’re the car then it sounds like you’re mechanically minded and able to do this all yourself - but to double check, you know that the brake fluid reservoir needs to be brimmed in order for fluid to route down the clutch line (the off take for the clutch line is at the very top of the fluid reservoir, and so won’t bleed/take on new fluid unless you brim the reservoir. You then need to lower the lever with a syringe (or use a straw with your finger over it - which takes bloody ages but can also work!). The bleed valve for the clutch line is also in the engine bay from memory. Mine snapped on first effort. So had to swap that over. Best of luck! If that doesn't solve it then it could be the clutch slave cylinder. Afraid that is a box off job as I think it's inside the bell housing….
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Hi - I’d have a look at bleeding the clutch properly - if you’re the car then it sounds like you’re mechanically minded and able to do this all yourself - but to double check, you know that the brake fluid reservoir needs to be brimmed in order for fluid to route down the clutch line (the off take for the clutch line is at the very top of the fluid reservoir, and so won’t bleed/take on new fluid unless you brim the reservoir. You then need to lower the lever with a syringe (or use a straw with your finger over it - which takes bloody ages but can also work!). The bleed valve for the clutch line is also in the engine bay from memory. Mine snapped on first effort. So had to swap that over. Best of luck! If that doesn't solve it then it could be the clutch slave cylinder. Afraid that is a box off job as I think it's inside the bell housing….
Got the clutch bled a few months ago, made sure with the mechanic that he brimmed the reservoir. Old clutch fluid was the blackest he'd ever seen.
Unfortunately it made no difference to the clutch feel, and here we are a few months later, and the clutch pedal stickiness is happening even more easily before.
Before it would happen after going around a roundabout briskly and occasionally at medium speed, now even going around it slowly results in the annoying phenomenon :(
Any suggestions what to investigate next?
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Sorry to hear this mate. Nope. Out of ideas I’m afraid. The shims and then fluid change sorted it for me. Could be the clutch slave cylinder - but that’s inside the bell housing - so needs the gear box off I think
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Hi - I’d have a look at bleeding the clutch properly - if you’re the car then it sounds like you’re mechanically minded and able to do this all yourself - but to double check, you know that the brake fluid reservoir needs to be brimmed in order for fluid to route down the clutch line (the off take for the clutch line is at the very top of the fluid reservoir, and so won’t bleed/take on new fluid unless you brim the reservoir. You then need to lower the lever with a syringe (or use a straw with your finger over it - which takes bloody ages but can also work!). The bleed valve for the clutch line is also in the engine bay from memory. Mine snapped on first effort. So had to swap that over. Best of luck! If that doesn't solve it then it could be the clutch slave cylinder. Afraid that is a box off job as I think it's inside the bell housing….
Got the clutch bled a few months ago, made sure with the mechanic that he brimmed the reservoir. Old clutch fluid was the blackest he'd ever seen.
Unfortunately it made no difference to the clutch feel, and here we are a few months later, and the clutch pedal stickiness is happening even more easily before.
Before it would happen after going around a roundabout briskly and occasionally at medium speed, now even going around it slowly results in the annoying phenomenon :(
Any suggestions what to investigate next?
Sounds like the flywheel may be damaged now. Every time the pedal sticks down the centre of the flywheel will move towards the gearbox. If that happens enough then the bush in the flywheel can break apart.
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Thanks for the info, this was useful.