MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: bbfb10 on March 05, 2016, 08:44:30 pm

Title: Going Stage 2+
Post by: bbfb10 on March 05, 2016, 08:44:30 pm
Right then boys and girls, lve saved a few pennies and am looking to go from stock straight to Stage 2+. Im very excited.

I know l need an intercooler and a downpipe, l dont want a decat so have been looking at the 'ebay special' Direnza sports cat pipes. Ive searched on here and found differing opinions. Does anyone have a first hand review or opinion of one?

In terms of intercooler am l best to go for an S3 one or are the ebay specials just as good? Again, first hand opinions would be great.

Im tempted by the R-Tech Wellycooler, but dont know a great deal about them. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Ta. Ben.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: jacobrownoly on March 05, 2016, 10:02:49 pm
Right then boys and girls, lve saved a few pennies and am looking to go from stock straight to Stage 2+. Im very excited.

I know l need an intercooler and a downpipe, l dont want a decat so have been looking at the 'ebay special' Direnza sports cat pipes. Ive searched on here and found differing opinions. Does anyone have a first hand review or opinion of one?

In terms of intercooler am l best to go for an S3 one or are the ebay specials just as good? Again, first hand opinions would be great.

Im tempted by the R-Tech Wellycooler, but dont know a great deal about them. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Ta. Ben.

Stage 2+ is great. You will need an intercooler tho to get the best out of it.I would look at Airtec and is much better than the S3 one. In terms of exhaust you only need a de-cat downpipe, you can get one off eBay for £150 (leave your cat-back stock).

I just made 280bhp and 400nm on stage 2+ the car is great!
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Chris92 on March 06, 2016, 11:11:00 am
Id go with full exhaust system, my pal had his r at r-tech going stage 2+ but only had a de cat downpipe on instead of a full system but they said he come of had another 10-15 bhp with a cat back on.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Ricky123 on March 07, 2016, 01:15:06 am
S3 intercooler is more than enough for stage 2+ on k03 turbo and is a lot cheaper than other options.

I had a direnza cat back on a previous gti and it was fine, can't comment on long term use or a sports cat as I didn't have the car long enough and didn't use one of there sports cats.

Decat would be a better choice, it will be mapped so you don't have an engine light on with the decat fitted. It will just need swapping at mot time unless you have a friendly mot man. Not a huge job anyway so worth considering.

The biggest restriction on the exhaust is the cat/downpipe the rest of the system will efffect performance but I never felt any real difference myself going from stock cat back and decat to aftermarket cat back and decat.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: c4pete on October 03, 2016, 10:07:55 am
Hey Ben,

What did you end up doing?  I'm looking at the Direnza down pipes with sport cat, be curious what you thought if you fitted one.

Cheers,
Pete.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Sulley91 on October 03, 2016, 10:34:49 pm
I'll be selling my turbo back Milltek system in the next week if your interested @c4pete (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=16861)
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: croak2012 on October 03, 2016, 11:27:14 pm
I'm sure I read s3 intercooler is good for 360bhp somewhere...
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on October 03, 2016, 11:42:43 pm
niki says it's good for stage 2+ as I have the R6 ic when we had words last so that's good enough for me.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: croak2012 on October 03, 2016, 11:48:44 pm
niki says it's good for stage 2+ as I have the R6 ic when we had words last so that's good enough for me.

exactly! and the whole idea of ka04 upgrade is to bring it up to audi s3 spec anyways haha!
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: bbfb10 on October 04, 2016, 07:09:27 am
@c4pete (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=16861) I managed to get hold of a Milltek 200 cell sports cat d/p and a resonated cat-back in the end for bargain prices from members on here. Sounds great.

In terms of Stage 2+ lm yet to fit my intercooler and get a map as lm seriously considering buying an edition 30 and moving my Stage 2+ parts over to that.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on October 04, 2016, 02:34:48 pm
niki says it's good for stage 2+ as I have the R6 ic when we had words last so that's good enough for me.

exactly! and the whole idea of ka04 upgrade is to bring it up to audi s3 spec anyways haha!
lol definitely and anyone who says it's no good should contact Niki at r-tech who will put things right  :signLOL:
I can also say these Chinese copies will easily do the same job as any other fmic although figment is very tedious. Been there done that with my last car and took a whole six hours to do including chopping the cross member and manufacturing your own pipes with odds and ends lots of swearing too  :doh:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: xs2man on October 04, 2016, 04:33:39 pm
Happy to hear that.  I just got a S3 intercooler (later one with plastic ends, same as 6R I beleive, off a 27k motor).  Only because it was silly cheap really.  I wasn't planning on going stage 2+, was only planning a DP / decat.  But I think I'll only be HPFP internals + rs4 valve away from 2+ now, so is probably worth the extra £350 or so.

OP.  Keep an eye on the likes of Audi-Sport.net and other Audi forums for S3 intercoolers.  I picked mine up for £100 delivered, probably because no-one wants such a thing on the Audi forum as it's not an upgrade to them.  It is to us though.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: bigeyd on October 04, 2016, 07:56:37 pm
Stage 2+ is the way forward :D
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: JackL15 on October 05, 2016, 07:25:24 am
Mine made 282bhp 347 torque at stage 2 with a standard fuel pump. Now have a loba fitted and need to get the map tweaked.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: DANBOY66 on October 05, 2016, 07:39:50 am
i have a THS intercooler for sale i will be adding it to my for sale items later today  :happy2:

and stage 2+ is excellent always scare quite a few quick cars  :grin:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: irish_ram on October 05, 2016, 12:22:09 pm
niki says it's good for stage 2+ as I have the R6 ic when we had words last so that's good enough for me.

exactly! and the whole idea of ka04 upgrade is to bring it up to audi s3 spec anyways haha!
lol definitely and anyone who says it's no good should contact Niki at r-tech who will put things right  :signLOL:
I can also say these Chinese copies will easily do the same job as any other fmic although figment is very tedious. Been there done that with my last car and took a whole six hours to do including chopping the cross member and manufacturing your own pipes with odds and ends lots of swearing too  :doh:

Sorry to hijack the thread and I am clueless really on this sort of stuff but would an S3 intercooler be good enough for a K04 Stage 2+ as I have seen they can make around 380bhp.

Only reason I ask is I have a generic map on my ED30 and want to get rid for an R-Tech map so toying with the idea of collecting the Stage 2+ parts and going straight for Stage 2+
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: DANBOY66 on October 05, 2016, 12:44:55 pm
an s3 intercooler will make upto 380bhp but its the heat recovery that they suffer with a better intercooler will be more consistent over more pulls
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: irish_ram on October 05, 2016, 01:19:28 pm
an s3 intercooler will make upto 380bhp but its the heat recovery that they suffer with a better intercooler will be more consistent over more pulls

Cheers mate, seems a better intercooler is the way to go
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: croak2012 on October 05, 2016, 11:22:06 pm
an s3 intercooler will make upto 380bhp but its the heat recovery that they suffer with a better intercooler will be more consistent over more pulls

Cheers mate, seems a better intercooler is the way to go
would you want more than 360bhp with a mk5 gti?   well... without spending an absolute fortune to accommodate?...
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: DANBOY66 on October 06, 2016, 05:15:43 am
Your missing my point

Heat kills power

The s3 intercooler can make the power but when it's starts getting very hot after a bit of abuse the s3 intercooler begins to struggle with the heat

Then the ecu will retard timing making the car slower but still safe to cope with the heat

Dan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on October 06, 2016, 11:52:51 am
On a track day on a summer's day that might be an issue, but in 90% of road driving scenarios, heat soaking an S3 intercooler would take some doing.

Dyno cells don't have anywhere near the amount of cool, fresh air going through the IC as the open road, so I wouldn't always take a dyno operator's word on IATs being too high.  They might well be, during 10 back to back power runs in a tiny little room!

And then of course there is the volume of the thing to fill, which can increase lag a bit.  That's why the S3 intercooler is only marginally bigger than the GTI one.  VAG focused more on improving the core than outright size.

I think ~ £260 for a brand new 6R/S3 intercooler from the dealer is a great upgrade & OEM quality, even on a K04 for stage 2.  Even better if you can find them on ebay for a steal!

Whilst the Peron, Welly boots, APR, Integrated Engineering & Revo ICs of this world have their place.... sometimes they're not necessary for the job in hand  :smiley:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: croak2012 on October 06, 2016, 04:02:17 pm
Your missing my point

Heat kills power

The s3 intercooler can make the power but when it's starts getting very hot after a bit of abuse the s3 intercooler begins to struggle with the heat

Then the ecu will retard timing making the car slower but still safe to cope with the heat

Dan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
On a track day on a summer's day that might be an issue, but in 90% of road driving scenarios, heat soaking an S3 intercooler would take some doing.

Dyno cells don't have anywhere near the amount of cool, fresh air going through the IC as the open road, so I wouldn't always take a dyno operator's word on IATs being too high.  They might well be, during 10 back to back power runs in a tiny little room!

And then of course there is the volume of the thing to fill, which can increase lag a bit.  That's why the S3 intercooler is only marginally bigger than the GTI one.  VAG focused more on improving the core than outright size.

I think ~ £260 for a brand new 6R/S3 intercooler from the dealer is a great upgrade & OEM quality, even on a K04 for stage 2.  Even better if you can find them on ebay for a steal!

Whilst the Peron, Welly boots, APR, Integrated Engineering & Revo ICs of this world have their place.... sometimes they're not necessary for the job in hand  :smiley:
Could he  install the s3 ic and down the line if needed just add twintercooler on?
or is this total overkill!...
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on October 06, 2016, 04:08:09 pm
Pudding has given excellent information an I would go by that and my experiences on fmic in the past. Overkill on the s3 and twintercooler if you ask me  :signLOL: but if your running 400bhp then go for the kill  :grin:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: DANBOY66 on October 06, 2016, 05:09:19 pm
S3 intercoolers struggle on a hot day let alone on a track day


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on October 06, 2016, 05:19:27 pm
Really  :scared:

When I was discussing my remap on fb niki replied and said I should be going 2+ with the gear I'm fitting on and said it would be enough.

S3 forsale on fb right now 75 + delivery  :signLOL:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: DANBOY66 on October 06, 2016, 05:22:42 pm
s3's are great for k03's stage 2+

not so great for k04's

people want every last bhp they can get i have seen it a thousand times i have done this and that what else can i do before mapping

an s3 intercooler will be ok but not the best option
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: DANBOY66 on October 06, 2016, 05:27:18 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fcabrio16v%2Fedition_30%2F4E2C7B8D-804A-4D81-96CB-0E4376BA9A29_zpssclfn6cj.jpg&hash=aa3299d196079086ef33c1628515773e8e78bd49)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fcabrio16v%2Fedition_30%2F0D4153EA-4501-432C-B868-E5C315F55FBC_zps6muyqgoh.jpg&hash=5790ecfa276a0069ea0647e6904c1d49213b7608)

best intercooler bang for buck if your handy all new can be done for under £200
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on October 06, 2016, 05:44:26 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fcabrio16v%2Fedition_30%2F4E2C7B8D-804A-4D81-96CB-0E4376BA9A29_zpssclfn6cj.jpg&hash=aa3299d196079086ef33c1628515773e8e78bd49)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fcabrio16v%2Fedition_30%2F0D4153EA-4501-432C-B868-E5C315F55FBC_zps6muyqgoh.jpg&hash=5790ecfa276a0069ea0647e6904c1d49213b7608)

best intercooler bang for buck if your handy all new can be done for under £200
I remember me asking questions about that but as you didn't give the dimensions I went a bought n R6 one lol also too much hassle to cut the cross member and drill holes to mount an aftermarket one on so easier to go oem  :signLOL:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: AJP on October 06, 2016, 05:52:59 pm
Funny thing is you get a different answer depending on who you speak to. I was chatting to Steve when I was last at Statller and he said my standard cooler would be fine for a k04 conversion....! I'm not too sure about that myself, but who am I to question his knowledge?!

He also told me about Peron intercoolers suffering from pressure drop and possibly not being as good as I'd heard they were. But at the same time other equally respected tuners rate the Peron highly.

Whatever's right or wrong, it's definitely something I need to look into lots more before I go k04.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: croak2012 on October 06, 2016, 06:25:08 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fcabrio16v%2Fedition_30%2F4E2C7B8D-804A-4D81-96CB-0E4376BA9A29_zpssclfn6cj.jpg&hash=aa3299d196079086ef33c1628515773e8e78bd49)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fcabrio16v%2Fedition_30%2F0D4153EA-4501-432C-B868-E5C315F55FBC_zps6muyqgoh.jpg&hash=5790ecfa276a0069ea0647e6904c1d49213b7608)

best intercooler bang for buck if your handy all new can be done for under £200
seems like this is the best option to go for then!  I have ka04 with front mount ic and the red forge silicone pipes looks bad ass too ahahahah :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on October 06, 2016, 06:29:11 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fcabrio16v%2Fedition_30%2F4E2C7B8D-804A-4D81-96CB-0E4376BA9A29_zpssclfn6cj.jpg&hash=aa3299d196079086ef33c1628515773e8e78bd49)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fcabrio16v%2Fedition_30%2F0D4153EA-4501-432C-B868-E5C315F55FBC_zps6muyqgoh.jpg&hash=5790ecfa276a0069ea0647e6904c1d49213b7608)

best intercooler bang for buck if your handy all new can be done for under £200
seems like this is the best option to go for then!  I have ka04 with front mount ic and the red forge silicone pipes looks bad ass too ahahahah :evilgrin:
Its pain in the  :booty: when trying to get everything together and cut out bumper supports  :doh:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: croak2012 on October 06, 2016, 07:00:19 pm
more hassle?...but the red silicone pipes....  :signLOL:  I heard something about increased lag with fmic because of length of piping ?   if that's the case I would go for s3 if I was on stock ka03 gti turbo ... but like dan says - if you want  to go big with ka04 and go to track days in the summer with more bhp , heat soak etc !... ?   I don't have enough experience to offer further advice as I bought car with fmic already installed - seems the decision is not so straight forward!
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on October 06, 2016, 07:16:24 pm
...but the red silicone pipes....  :signLOL:
nice I had blue painted black with alloy hosing :signLOL:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: xs2man on October 06, 2016, 07:58:11 pm
Really  :scared:

When I was discussing my remap on fb niki replied and said I should be going 2+ with the gear I'm fitting on and said it would be enough.

S3 forsale on fb right now 75 + delivery  :signLOL:

You sure that's for sale?  And not just me saying "woo hoo, look what I got for £75 + delivery"...
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on October 06, 2016, 08:08:22 pm
Really  :scared:

When I was discussing my remap on fb niki replied and said I should be going 2+ with the gear I'm fitting on and said it would be enough.

S3 forsale on fb right now 75 + delivery  :signLOL:

You sure that's for sale?  And not just me saying "woo hoo, look what I got for £75 + delivery"...
your right but it was too late by then lol although another member is selling one who comented in that post  :signLOL:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on October 06, 2016, 09:11:05 pm
You've got to read this post off FB  :scared:

Yeah the primary job of the end tank is to distribute the air into the core rails evenly. Cooling is secondary. The tanks aren't even in the air flow. The S3 cooler is a massive improvement over the GTI one. People just don't think it is because it's not a lot bigger. There is such a thing as going over the top with IC sizing. And remember, dyno cells have don't have the same airflow compared to the open road, so of course any cooler will heatsoak after 10 runs back to back in a cell. VAG designed the S3 cooler to work in Dubai. Heatsoaking it on the road in the UK would take some doing!
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Paradox1 on October 07, 2016, 10:26:28 am
If your aiming for top figures with k04 or another bigger turbo, go hybrid. I did mine for less that 200quid
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on October 07, 2016, 10:48:45 am
S3 intercoolers struggle on a hot day let alone on a track day

I think you are exaggerating.   My 6R/S3 intercooler was absolutely fine this summer running 23psi, KO4.  Temps were always under the 50 deg timing pull threshold, even on that 33 deg day we had.

I think if people are heatsoaking an S3 cooler on public roads with a K04, they're overspinning the turbo and it's time to fit a bigger one running slower but more cfm.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Paradox1 on October 07, 2016, 10:52:50 am
S3 intercoolers struggle on a hot day let alone on a track day

I think you are exaggerating.   My 6R/S3 intercooler was absolutely fine this summer running 23psi, KO4.  Temps were always under the 50 deg timing pull threshold, even on that 33 deg day we had.

I think if people are heatsoaking an S3 cooler on public roads with a K04, they're overspinning the turbo and it's time to fit a bigger one running slower but more cfm.

Or just dont drive like a nutjob on public roads
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on October 07, 2016, 11:01:54 am
S3 intercoolers struggle on a hot day let alone on a track day

I think you are exaggerating.   My 6R/S3 intercooler was absolutely fine this summer running 23psi, KO4.  Temps were always under the 50 deg timing pull threshold, even on that 33 deg day we had.

I think if people are heatsoaking an S3 cooler on public roads with a K04, they're overspinning the turbo and it's time to fit a bigger one running slower but more cfm.

Or just dont drive like a nutjob on public roads

That too.  There are always cool off periods in between full throttle blasts for the cooler to dissipate the heat.  If the turbo was in full boost all the time, even a 5 foot wide intercooler would eventually heatsoak.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: DANBOY66 on October 07, 2016, 11:07:06 am
 :grin: :grin: :grin: my favourite place is to drive fast past schools  :laugh:

time and place for everything stop talking stupid i am not 17

when sitting in traffic at pod heat soak on the s3 cooler was insane it got even worse when we turned the engine off the front mount fitted does not hold the heat as much as its further away from the engine

anyway i am never going to agree with your opinion on the s3 cooler but thats life we all have opinions like bumholes  :happy2:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on October 07, 2016, 11:37:39 am
S3 intercoolers struggle on a hot day let alone on a track day

I think you are exaggerating.   My 6R/S3 intercooler was absolutely fine this summer running 23psi, KO4.  Temps were always under the 50 deg timing pull threshold, even on that 33 deg day we had.

I think if people are heatsoaking an S3 cooler on public roads with a K04, they're overspinning the turbo and it's time to fit a bigger one running slower but more cfm.

Or just dont drive like a nutjob on public roads
yeah be careful  :happy2:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on October 07, 2016, 12:18:41 pm
:grin: :grin: :grin: my favourite place is to drive fast past schools  :laugh:

time and place for everything stop talking stupid i am not 17

when sitting in traffic at pod heat soak on the s3 cooler was insane it got even worse when we turned the engine off the front mount fitted does not hold the heat as much as its further away from the engine

anyway i am never going to agree with your opinion on the s3 cooler but thats life we all have opinions like bumholes  :happy2:

Aha, we're not talking about driving then!  Any intercooler will heat soak sat idling for ages as there's no airflow, other than the fans. Agreed that pushing yours out further can help with that, but how does that affect the air guide cowling on the slam panel?  Plastic end tanks are actually better in that scenario as alloy just absorbs all the heat and passes it into the core, but anyway, you're right, let's agree to disagree  :happy2:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: DANBOY66 on October 07, 2016, 12:59:22 pm
we agree on something  :grin: :happy2:

sitting at a set of traffic lights getting ready to boot it away the s3 cooler will be heat soaking like mad and it would take longer for the air to cool as the air flow is much better on my front mount.

cooler air means faster car like winter and summer driving  :happy2:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on October 07, 2016, 02:22:25 pm
We got there in the end  :grin:

Yeah I hate that VW sandwiched the intercooler between the radiator and A/C condenser!

I'm not that worried by traffic and idling scenarios, just so long as it does the business when booting it at speed, which it does!
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Madone on October 07, 2016, 04:02:03 pm
I think the point with hear soak is not down to how much heat the cooler attracts but how quickly it cools back down. When the car is stationary all coolers will heat up based on where temp in the engine bay. It's how quickly that temperature drops when you start moving and how efficiently it disapeats that heat. They all get hot then cool down when moving, but the less efficient ones hold that heat. So as soon as you stop or slow down temps go back up

I had a stage 1 airtech, worked well, got hot when stationary and cooled fairly quickly when moving. I switched to a peron, noticed a big difference in this recovery of soaked in heat. It runs cooler anyway during general driving, but the way it gets rid of the hear after a good soaking is most impressive. It felt like the airtech and def the oem were fighting the soaked in heat and once soaked would be a struggle to consistently keep the temps down.

Also the ecu will pull timing way before 50deg, as soon as it senses knock it will pull,  an important factor to prevent knock (as well as octane) is temp. So the colder you can keep things the more timing you can run. Hence you can run water meth kits with mainly water to just lower charge temps and wind your timing up. Obviously adding meth increases octane with is another boost to running more timing. But colder is definitely better  :happy2:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on October 07, 2016, 04:26:51 pm
Sorry, should have said the timing pull is most noticeable when IATs hit 50.  Before that it's quite subtle, well, I can't really feel it tbh!

Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Madone on October 07, 2016, 08:10:57 pm
I tried running my Revo map with one extra timing value with the airtech cooler and was getting about 6deg of timing pull which I wasn't too happy to leave on, but haven't tried since fitting the Peron. Will give it a go. I'm not sure what the max timing the ecu can pull out before it goes into safe mode, guessing somewhere around 10+ deg ?.
Title: Going Stage 2+
Post by: DANBOY66 on October 07, 2016, 09:31:16 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161007%2F81d9a45a9638287097b9d24db499e586.jpg&hash=9830eb4ced1620f2a36f85e0cf19efe55cc661f2)

Dark blue line is air intake temps
Yellow line is actually all 4 cylinders zero knock

This was my eddy on a 4th gear pull same intercooler setup I posted a picture of and 50/50 meth that car on that pull gave everything it had

It maintained 15 Deg on a full pull no way an s3 setup could do that




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Little_Dave on October 07, 2016, 10:55:19 pm
I own an S3 and can confirm that the s3 cooler isn't great on a ko4 once u start tuning the car

It's not even that great standard as would get heat soak just driving to work last summer in 30' heat, car was noticeably slower at lunchtime in the heat to early mornings or evenings

Tune the car and the problem multiplies and so on

I now run a peron cooler which is a lot better than the s3 cooler obviously and haven't had a hint of heat soak in day to day driving in the heat or even when driving the car hard, but still got heat soak at Santa pod sitting in the queue waiting to do runs

As Dan said it's all about how long it takes to recover the ambient temps and it's always a trade off with a standard fitment cooler as the air con rad covers most of the surface area

Peron airtec etc will do a better job than the s3 cooler and in my eyes is worth the upgrade but if you're serious about chasing numbers and getting the best solution the kind of cooler Dan had on his eddy would be the way to go

And before u ask why I haven't got one fitted I don't track my car and only go to the pod once or twice a year so even though I'm running 360bhp 400lbs it's perfect for the way I use the car

Dave
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Paradox1 on October 10, 2016, 10:29:25 am
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161007%2F81d9a45a9638287097b9d24db499e586.jpg&hash=9830eb4ced1620f2a36f85e0cf19efe55cc661f2)

Dark blue line is air intake temps
Yellow line is actually all 4 cylinders zero knock

This was my eddy on a 4th gear pull same intercooler setup I posted a picture of and 50/50 meth that car on that pull gave everything it had

It maintained 15 Deg on a full pull no way an s3 setup could do that




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Welly cooler ftw :driver:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: oak_grun on October 10, 2016, 11:07:21 am
I used a Eurojet FMIC onn my stage 2+ Ed30. :smiley:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: flashp on October 10, 2016, 06:35:07 pm
I use an S3 IC with 330bhp (stage 2) and have done a number of track days and not been aware of a problem.
At Goodwood the car is moving at up to 140mph which gives good air flow through the rads.

Granted my tune isn't wringing the engines neck for every last ounce of power, the turbo duty cycle is around 60% at present.

As an aside, I found the stage 2 Revo map to be smoother than the 2+.

I would be interested to do a back to back on a track day if it were possible before committing to a big spend which obviously isn't practical so some track gathered data rather than rolling road logs would be good to see.
I'll keep an open mind on this I think.

Next time out I'll keep an on intake temps more closely, I have Polar FIS. In the past I feel they've been below 35 degrees but can't be certain now.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Chargercharger on October 17, 2016, 07:04:13 pm
@Sulley91 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=17197) pm regrading exhaust if still avaliable
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on January 23, 2017, 03:50:34 pm
Well having looked at this post after so long I've decided I'm going welly and will cut out the frontal accommodate the welly although it looks a mother of a job. Shame I can't see exaclty what's been chopped as the front panel looks like it'll need a chop shop job to get pipes on  :doh:
@DANBOY66 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8622) we're there any other modifications needed like the front bumper to fit it like this?.

Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Craig Stanley on May 30, 2017, 12:44:12 pm
niki says it's good for stage 2+ as I have the R6 ic when we had words last so that's good enough for me.
Hi. Don't suppose you have a part number for this bud.

Sent from my ZTE B2017G using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on May 31, 2017, 01:31:42 am
niki says it's good for stage 2+ as I have the R6 ic when we had words last so that's good enough for me.
Hi. Don't suppose you have a part number for this bud.

Sent from my ZTE B2017G using Tapatalk
sorry mate sold it a while back and now have a welly with home made piping  :doh:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Craig Stanley on May 31, 2017, 07:05:46 am
niki says it's good for stage 2+ as I have the R6 ic when we had words last so that's good enough for me.
Hi. Don't suppose you have a part number for this bud.

Sent from my ZTE B2017G using Tapatalk
sorry mate sold it a while back and now have a welly with home made piping  :doh:
Ok. No worries. Thought it was a long shot.

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Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on June 01, 2017, 12:24:36 am
niki says it's good for stage 2+ as I have the R6 ic when we had words last so that's good enough for me.
Hi. Don't suppose you have a part number for this bud.

Sent from my ZTE B2017G using Tapatalk
sorry mate sold it a while back and now have a welly with home made piping  :doh:
Ok. No worries. Thought it was a long shot.

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I'll get a mate to get the PN from his one  :happy2:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Craig Stanley on June 01, 2017, 07:52:44 am
That would be spot on. Thanks. I'm back at rtech on 29th September and am slowly getting my car ready. I'm no mechanic but I'm gonna tackle putting this in on my own.:-D

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Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on June 01, 2017, 10:49:30 pm
@Craig Stanley (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=15958) 1K0-145-803-BP

Associated Parts to retro fit to gti
Drivers (Left) Lower Intercooler hose for Golf R 1K0-145-834-AK
Passenger (Right) Lower Intercooler hose for Golf R 1K0-145-832-AE
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Craig Stanley on June 02, 2017, 06:36:42 am
@Craig Stanley (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=15958) 1K0-145-803-BP

Associated Parts to retro fit to gti
Drivers (Left) Lower Intercooler hose for Golf R 1K0-145-834-AK
Passenger (Right) Lower Intercooler hose for Golf R 1K0-145-832-AE
Thanks r5gtt. Thats brilliant.

Sent from my ZTE B2017G using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: r5gtt on June 08, 2017, 08:56:36 pm
@Craig Stanley (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=15958) 1K0-145-803-BP

Associated Parts to retro fit to gti
Drivers (Left) Lower Intercooler hose for Golf R 1K0-145-834-AK
Passenger (Right) Lower Intercooler hose for Golf R 1K0-145-832-AE
Thanks r5gtt. Thats brilliant.

Sent from my ZTE B2017G using Tapatalk
your welcome  :smiley:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Craig Stanley on September 08, 2018, 09:08:34 am
Hi, sorry to open up an old thread and I haven't been on here for ages but I need some advice @r5gtt.

I've finally got round to sorting my intercooler and I've opted for the s3 with alloy end tanks but I wanted to ask you if I need to change the pipes on it or will I just need to cut the old ones to fit. Thanks in advance and I'd really appreciate your input.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: ellis346 on July 10, 2019, 09:56:58 pm
I’ve been reading this thread as I’m looking for an intercooler. There’s a lot of mentions of s3 intercoolers for £200. I’m being quoted £550 from the dealership. Are you guys talking about aftermarket eBay ones or something? If some one could send us a link would be appreciated! Also what’s the toyo sports and intercoolers like. Also what are perons? Thanks
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Dan_FR on July 11, 2019, 08:56:45 am
That's the going rate for a used item rather than new. Usually plenty floating about
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: ellis346 on July 11, 2019, 02:18:27 pm
Ahhh ok. Thanks for the reply dan really appreciated. I’ve been looking for weeks but no joy. Im keeping an eye out on eBay, mk5 parts sales on Facebook and the audi-sport forum. Maybe I’m looking in the wrong places?
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Second on July 11, 2019, 10:51:07 pm
You’re not the only one! I’ve also been looking for one recently and haven’t seen any.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: ellis346 on July 12, 2019, 05:32:51 pm
good to know I'm not the only one then!
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on July 19, 2019, 05:14:16 pm
I’ve been reading this thread as I’m looking for an intercooler. There’s a lot of mentions of s3 intercoolers for £200. I’m being quoted £550 from the dealership. Are you guys talking about aftermarket eBay ones or something? If some one could send us a link would be appreciated! Also what’s the toyo sports and intercoolers like. Also what are perons? Thanks

There's 2 choices of S3 IC.  Pre-2009 which is about £550 as you say, and post 2009 which has plastic end tanks for £349ish.  Golf 6R is another option.   Darkside developments sell the pre-2009 S3 IC for £360 - https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/audi-s3-intercooler-with-alloy-end-tanks-for-mk5-mk6-platform.html

Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: ellis346 on July 27, 2019, 09:40:38 pm
Thanks Pudding! I've actually found a second hand pre 2009 s3 intercooler for £220 with hoses. If id seen this before agreeing to buy, I would of checked Darkside out! all good, hopefully the one I'm getting is worth the slight saving.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on August 02, 2019, 04:19:00 pm
No worries.  With s/hand intercoolers, I would take the time to clean them out thoroughly in case of turbo failure and also get a pressure test.  You can do that simply with a cheap gauge and a bike pump  :happy2:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: ellis346 on August 10, 2019, 05:50:39 pm
Right will do, cheers. What’s the best way cleaning it?
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Second on August 21, 2019, 11:09:46 am
I’ve decided to just get a new oem S3 intercooler from Darkside. I was just wondering if anyone thinks it’s worth upgrading to the Forge Turbo Hoses (https://www.awesomegti.com/shop-by-brand/forge/forge-turbo-hose-kit-for-vag-2-0tfsi/), or is it not worth it; will the originals do the job?
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: muff1991 on August 21, 2019, 04:19:35 pm
The original hoses will do the job, you must have to cut the hose at the metal bit, try to get it as tight to the metal as you can to save as much hose as possible.


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Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Second on August 23, 2019, 05:21:50 pm
The original hoses will do the job, you must have to cut the hose at the metal bit, try to get it as tight to the metal as you can to save as much hose as possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cheers  :happy2:
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Kebab Spider on March 06, 2020, 12:01:53 am
Hi, sorry to drag up an old thread but I'm going for Stage 2 or Stage 2+ on my GTI and I've just giddily bought this on eBay because I got it for £45! The guy said he took it off his 2013 S3. Will this be alright? I'm having doubts all of a sudden, that old saying if something seems too good to be true then it probably is! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233509365713

Cheers
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: colesey on March 06, 2020, 10:49:43 am
Best check the depth, sbe 38/40mm thick rather than 32mm of stock gti
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on March 06, 2020, 03:38:55 pm
Terrible pics  :grin:  Yeah it will bolt right in.  It's the same intercooler as the Golf 6 R, which I have in my Edition 30, zero fitment issues  :happy2:

I've run 2+ with that intercooler and monitored intake temps very closely, and they were absolutely fine.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: chumeta on April 16, 2020, 08:23:27 pm
I think that the only recommended intercooler oem is the S3. since the 6R is with plastic sides and almost the same in terms of measurements and the same thickness 32 as that of the gti 5 200hp

  617x418x32  golf gti,leon fr, A3. (all 200cv) ref                          1K0145803 S
  626x405x32  golf gti ed, R6, cupra 240 and 265, and some S3    1K0145803AK
   
       S3   616x409x40   S3    ALL ALUMINIUM                                  1K0145803P
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on April 24, 2020, 05:35:36 pm
6R and 2009 S3 use exactly the same intercooler, and it's certainly thicker than the GTI cooler.  Audi switched to the plastic end tank one later in the 8P's life. 
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: WolfsburgEd on May 22, 2020, 04:09:42 pm
sorry to drag this thread on a bit longer ... but does anybody have any experience of Nissens aftermarket intercoolers? I have been made aware that they do one with alloy ends for the S3 with equivalent part number 1K0145803P and about £250... How bad can it be as an upgrade??
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on May 22, 2020, 08:05:50 pm
£250 buys you a genuine 2009 S3/6R one.  Why chance an unknown entity for the same price?  This obsession with ally end tanks...for a road car....is a bit unnecessary, imo.  It's a far heavier intercooler with minimal gain over a plastic ended one.  The end tanks are obscured by the bumper anyway so don't get any air flow.  The only advantage of metal end tanks is boost pressure capacity......but not even a K04 running flat out will burst plastic end tanks, so it's a moot point.  Big hybrid turbo running big pressure....different story.  Metal end tanks will be of benefit.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: WolfsburgEd on May 22, 2020, 08:53:28 pm
I get the thing with the end tanks - I've just not even seen plastic ended new IC's at that price and saw this one.

I've only just come back into all this lark - where would you get a genuine new one at that price from then?
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: asd30l on May 23, 2020, 09:05:03 am
sorry to drag this thread on a bit longer ... but does anybody have any experience of Nissens aftermarket intercoolers? I have been made aware that they do one with alloy ends for the S3 with equivalent part number 1K0145803P and about £250... How bad can it be as an upgrade??

I fitted the nissens one as i couldnt find a used S3/6R IC and it seems fine. Only issue i had was the screw for the AC pipes on the side didn't line up. Just seen this on Ebay which i believe is the one off the 6R

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402183764460
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on May 23, 2020, 09:34:41 pm
I get the thing with the end tanks - I've just not even seen plastic ended new IC's at that price and saw this one.

I've only just come back into all this lark - where would you get a genuine new one at that price from then?

From the dealer.  That's what I paid a few years back.  Not sure what the price is now but I was quite surprised an OEM S3 cooler was that cheap.  Audi moved from ally ends to plastic in 2009.....but to compensate they improved the main core, which is more important than the end tank material.
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: Robmk95gti on January 12, 2021, 08:43:04 pm
Hello everyone happy new year all.  I’m new to this forum I have gone stage 2 on my mk5 golf gti 6speed manual axx engine code and now producing about 310-320bhp 400nm of torque was woundering if there is a company out there that’s sells  some uprated driveshafts that can deal with the power output on my pocket rocket. Cheers
Title: Re: Going Stage 2+
Post by: pudding on January 15, 2021, 08:43:34 pm
Well, 4 things:

1)  OEM driveshafts are capable of handling significantly more than 400nm.  But if you really insist - I recommend 'Driveshaft shop' in America.

2) AXX can't make 300+ on the stock turbo.

3) Borg Warner quoted maximum flow rates:

K04 = 330 crank power.

K03 = 260 crank power.

4) Figures over those numbers are fabricated dyno coast down correction lies.

Have a nice day  :happy2: