MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => How to Guides / Troubleshooting => Topic started by: vRS Carl on October 18, 2009, 02:03:56 pm
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Well i can safely say the catch can works :grin:
After around 1k miles this is what had been collected in mine :surprised: :surprised:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2FP1000978.jpg&hash=71f69909c511a0f9a0314fd01d4a66e103a62608)
As you can see from the pic that is nearly 120ml of Carp which would have gone back into the head.
Now all i have to do is show the missus how to empty it whilst im away :grin: :grin: :grin:
Carl :happy2:
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What do you do with the stuff afterwards? Presumably can't pour it down the sink.
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What do you do with the stuff afterwards? Presumably can't pour it down the sink.
Can't you :surprised: :surprised: :grin:
You could drink it :laugh:
I emptied away in a friendly to the environment way :wink:
Carl :happy2:
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Small 1ltr oil container. drain the dregs into it and then when it is full take it up to your local tip where they have oil and hazardous waste disposal :happy2:
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or pour it back into the engine were it came from :laugh:
:popcornsoda:
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Looks like mostly water though.
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emptyed mine after 100 miles, there was about a mil of water. :signLOL:
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Reason i went for the Stage 1 fix on mine. Fit and forget. Catch cans are unnecessary. Its only excessive pressure throwing the oil out, its not bad oil. The catch can only looks like the stuff that was in it is minging because of the mix with water.
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ergh...nasty stuff
Reason i went for the Stage 1 fix on mine. Fit and forget. Catch cans are unnecessary. Its only excessive pressure throwing the oil out, its not bad oil. The catch can only looks like the stuff that was in it is minging because of the mix with water.
forgive my ignorance, but whats the stage one fix?
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i drained mine after 1k and had about the same amount .
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forgive my ignorance, but whats the stage one fix?
http://dubtek.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&products_id=251&zenid=1a1f498f4c0f18a0e956ac24ef22b7f2
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forgive my ignorance, but whats the stage one fix?
http://dubtek.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&products_id=251&zenid=1a1f498f4c0f18a0e956ac24ef22b7f2
....That BSH Stage1 fix does beg the question "Why did BSH bother with a catch can version?" :confused:
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^^^ Hey Robin.
In answer to your question - the stage one version does not filter and catch any oil vapors like the catch can does. It is simply a stronger version of the OEM PCV which can be prone to failure.
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^^^ Hey Robin.
In answer to your question - the stage one version does not filter and catch any oil vapors like the catch can does. It is simply a stronger version of the OEM PCV which can be prone to failure.
Thats not at all true. In fact, its 100% incorrect.
It completely blocks off the PCV outlet, retaining just the return line to the sump. And comes with a block off cap for the inlet manifold on the PCV inlet.
The Eurojet fix does what you describe (with an uprated check valve), but the BSH fix is much better removing the PCV from the equation completely.
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but surly you still get vapour back to the sump ?
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but surly you still get vapour back to the sump ?
No, the condesation only forms in the catch can. The oil that would have been blown out the PCV to the inlet manifold simply gets recycled.
Its for sale, as i return the car to standard though. If anyone is interested its £55 :wink:
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Thats not at all true. In fact, its 100% incorrect.
It completely blocks off the PCV outlet, retaining just the return line to the sump. And comes with a block off cap for the inlet manifold on the PCV inlet.
The Eurojet fix does what you describe (with an uprated check valve), but the BSH fix is much better removing the PCV from the equation completely.
Disagree. Most of what I said is true. Lets break it down:
the stage one version does not filter and catch any oil vapors like the catch can does.
True.
It is simply a stronger version of the OEM PCV
Not true. Point accepted. I thought the BSH stage 1 solution was the same as Eurojets but it is not.
OEM PCV which can be prone to failure.
True.
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For clarity here is an indepth description of the BSH stage 1 fix (lifted from golfmkv):
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bshspeedshop.com%2Fstore%2Fskin1%2Fimages%2Fwingedlogo.bmp&hash=2633b596437b2161491044fc38d9d3f125b1a95d) (http://www.bshspeedshop.com)
Introduction
BSH is pleased to announce the release of the Bulletproof PCV Revamp. The kit is a three piece design, a PCV inlet port, a guidance block, and a manifold block off plug. Each component has been designed to accomplish the goals for the Bulletproof product line, rock solid performance, easy to maintain, and aesthetic enhancement of the respective part of the car.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi168.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu176%2FBSHStreetandStrip%2FPCV017.jpg%3Ft%3D1217962897&hash=7e06e11655ec26b9a3f8eebaa4a0fad6c511a452) (http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16937&cat=1011&page=1)
PCV Function:
PCV systems typically have two ports where crankcase pressure can be ventilated. One vents the crank case itself and will be near the bottom of the engine, typically off of the oil cooler housing, the other will vent the top of the motor and will most commonly be found on the valve cover. On OBD II compliant vehicles vented gasses are then routed to a port on the intake of the vehicle typically pre turbo charger on forced induction engines. The intake is used as air is always being pulled through it and as such provides the environment for a slightly lower than atmospheric pressure area.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi168.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu176%2FBSHStreetandStrip%2FPCV-1.jpg%3Ft%3D1218078856&hash=4d02f5bca6c160c31395b7cd2f6c35d0464557ee) (http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16937&cat=1011&page=1)
The PCV system on the 2.0T BPY motor has all of these traits. The primary difference between the 2.0T and many other turbo vehicles is that the 2.0T has a port directly tied to the intake manifold and while in vacuum vents to this port on the intake manifold. When boost is built the factory setup relies on a check valve in the front PCV to stop boost pressure from going through the intake manifold port and pushing back into the crank case. Instead pressure is directed from the crankcase to a port on the rear of the valve cover commonly referred to as the rear PCV. As has clearly been seen on most modified and even factory stock cars, the check valve whose job it is to stop boost pressure from re-entering the crank case just isn’t cutting it! When the check valve fails pressure is passed through the system that is supposed to be venting it and back into the crank case. Symptoms of this are a noticeable loss in performance, a decrease in gas mileage, rough idle, and oil being blown out of the oil cap.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi168.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu176%2FBSHStreetandStrip%2FPCV014.jpg%3Ft%3D1217950042&hash=8f71bbdd1c7af30bcbd8a8f8d9cc82eb82b030d0) (http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16937&cat=1011&page=1)
Past Solutions:
Early remedies to this issue took the approach of adding another check valve into the system. This design, while logical, has seemed to lack in numerous other areas. When heat and oil come together little issues arise without the right materials selection. Common issues have been with the valves sticking open or shut do to oil contamination, hoses cracking and breaking, and total valve failure either due to misuse or fatigue.
To remedy this situation once and for all we have engineered the Bulletproof PCV Revamp.
Function:
Manufactured in the US out of billet aluminum the new Bulletproof PCV Revamp hits every identified problem and does so while enhancing the look of the engine bay. By utilizing existing factory ports we are able to properly vent pressure from the crank case, without affecting emissions compliance, and never having boost act on the system. This system eliminates intake manifold interaction and provides a new path for crank case pressure that utilizes the freest flowing ports available to ensure complete ventilation.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi168.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu176%2FBSHStreetandStrip%2FPCV003.jpg%3Ft%3D1217949968&hash=d2ac110329748e65c867c40a4501d16bf2453269) (http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16937&cat=1011&page=1)
Components:
This kit was designed to fit under the factory engine cover without modification required. On the valve cover, the supplied PCV inlet port is designed to allow the factory hose to snap right into place to bring all the crank case gasses to the factory ports. Once the gasses have passed through the inlet they will merge with the gasses from the top of the motor and continue on the factory path to our supplied guidance block.
The guidance block has a machined passage way for pressure and gasses to pass through and be directed to the intake side of the turbocharger. These ports were sized to allow the necessary flow for high powered engines and are an increase over the factory port sizes. The guidance block seals to the valve cover utilizing the factory gasket and hardware.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi168.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu176%2FBSHStreetandStrip%2FPCV008Win.jpg%3Ft%3D1217963930&hash=71a0c18618c6f99094663fe1b1bb1c7c9f519761) (http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16937&cat=1011&page=1)
As these parts will have oil passing through them, the design allows for very easy maintenance. Unscrew the two screws that hold the guidance block on, pull it off and wipe it off, put it back on and your done! Less then a 5 minute job.
To prevent a massive leak on the intake manifold and to do so without sticking a bolt in a piece of hose, we have developed a billet cap for the port on the manifold. The cap covers the port on the intake manifold and seals it with a supplied O-ring. The cap is then locked into place with three set screws that mimic the factories attachment.
Installation:
Coming complete with installation instructions this kit can be installed in under a half an hour using common tools. There is no modification required to any factory component to install.
Compatibility with various OEM configurations:
These parts will bolt up to the 2.0T BPY engine. We have tested this kit on cars equipped with and without the factory check valve in the rear PCV. For cars without the check valve there is nothing of interest to report. On cars with the check valve, you will notice a putting sound as the volume of air passes through the check valve. This is not harmful and if the sound is deemed an annoyance simply removing the check valve will get rid of the sound. The check valve is present in the rear PCV to stop air from being sucked through at idle on the factory design and will have no benefit to the Bulletproof Revamp.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi168.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu176%2FBSHStreetandStrip%2FPCV005.jpg%3Ft%3D1217958307&hash=fe20fc2c27d22af037176a9e021cd48b0abdb7eb) (http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16937&cat=1011&page=1)
Conclusion:
Combined these three components solve a problem that has plagued the 2.0T since its release. No more check valves to fail, no more hoses to tear, and no more wondering if today is going to be the day.
Introductory Offer:
The Bulletproof PCV Revamp (http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16937&cat=1011&page=1) will start shipping next week and for the Golf MKV community we are having a pre introductory offer of $89.99 including free ground shipping anywhere in the US. In addition you can add two day shipping for $5 anywhere in the US. This introductory offer will be available for the first 25 kits sold! Afterwards list price will be $99.99. As a bonus, if the first 25 kits sell within 48 hours we will extend the deal for the next batch of 25.
Thanks for taking the time to read over this! Please let me know if you have any questions.
-Phill
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but surly you still get vapour back to the sump ?
No, the condesation only forms in the catch can. The oil that would have been blown out the PCV to the inlet manifold simply gets recycled.
Not quite true I'm afraid. In an ideal world the blowby gases and vapours would get re-used but unfortunately the reality is that they can cause carbon deposits. I already explained this in detail in another thread:
Engines suffer from something called blowby and VAG cars are especially known for suffering from this. A good indication of this can be seen from how much oil your car uses. Blowby occurs during the combustion process when when gases and oil vapor leak through the piston rings. For emission compliance these gases and vapors are recirculted back into the engine through the OEM PCV with the theory being that they will get burnt off again once they go through combustion. However in reality the dirty oil vapors and gases tend to stick to your intake valves etc and cause carbon deposits. Over time these will cause a nasty build up of what can best be described as sludge which can have a negative effect on your engines performance. Our FSI engines use direct injection which makes them more susceptible to these carbon deposits than port injection engines as they do not have fuel passing over the valves to wash them clean.
A catch can system sends the blowby gases through a catch can which filters out the oil vapors and allows them to collect in the can which then needs to be emptied periodically. Therefore the can still meets emission standards as these vapors are being contained. Also the catch can will help prevent the build up of the nasty carbon deposists.
HTH :happy2:
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^^^ great Read. Cheers Karl :happy2:
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....
Returned home tonight after a 512-mile journey to find my catch can has emptied itself! Yellow custard gunk. The 'wing-nut' is tight up against the brass nut against the underside of the wretched tank - Tightened up anti-clockwise as I understood from stokeballoon.
WTF am I doing wrong!?
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The wing nut needs to be wound fully out, away from the underside of the catch can.
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Well, I now conclude that my 'wrongly' routed hoses are now 'correctly' routed without anyone changing them.
However, in spite of the tap being very tight it still spews oily gunk. I'm changing my catch tank anyway to one which has a sight feature. I'm sorry, I wish I could say otherwise but to be honest I'm not greatly impressed by BSH - Just my personal opinion :smiley:
Robin,
The tap at the bottom - Have you wound it all the way in up against the base of the can? If so it is wide open. The tap needs to be fully out to be shut, Bear in mind it is a left hand thread too.
All the way to the bottom is correct, ie fully out. I have had no probs with mine at all.
HTH
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^^^^
Gotcha! Cheers! :drinking:
No wonder - I've been running with it fully open. Very illogical design for doing things imo.
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I agree, it is totally the opposite to what you think.
:happy2:
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^^^^
Gotcha! Cheers! :drinking:
No wonder - I've been running with it fully open. Very illogical design for doing things imo.
Ditto.... Only realised last night after a week of having it fiited.... :ashamed:
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but surly you still get vapour back to the sump ?
No, the condesation only forms in the catch can. The oil that would have been blown out the PCV to the inlet manifold simply gets recycled.
Not quite true I'm afraid. In an ideal world the blowby gases and vapours would get re-used but unfortunately the reality is that they can cause carbon deposits. I already explained this in detail in another thread:
Engines suffer from something called blowby and VAG cars are especially known for suffering from this. A good indication of this can be seen from how much oil your car uses. Blowby occurs during the combustion process when when gases and oil vapor leak through the piston rings. For emission compliance these gases and vapors are recirculted back into the engine through the OEM PCV with the theory being that they will get burnt off again once they go through combustion. However in reality the dirty oil vapors and gases tend to stick to your intake valves etc and cause carbon deposits. Over time these will cause a nasty build up of what can best be described as sludge which can have a negative effect on your engines performance. Our FSI engines use direct injection which makes them more susceptible to these carbon deposits than port injection engines as they do not have fuel passing over the valves to wash them clean.
A catch can system sends the blowby gases through a catch can which filters out the oil vapors and allows them to collect in the can which then needs to be emptied periodically. Therefore the can still meets emission standards as these vapors are being contained. Also the catch can will help prevent the build up of the nasty carbon deposists.
HTH :happy2:
I think you are getting confused. The blowby oil vapours are an issue when they hit the inlet system. This is when they cause carbon deposits. But without the catch can, with a stage 1 pcv fix, the standard oil vapours just get recycled back to the sump.
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But without the catch can, with a stage 1 pcv fix, the standard oil vapours just get recycled back to the sump.
No, this is incorrect!
The simplest analogy is to think of the stage 1 fix as being lidentical the catch can setup but without the catch can.
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so where do they go ?
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so where do they go ?
I'm not sure of your question but if you read the stuff posted above by KRL then instead of the catch can with attached hoses the stage 1 back plate has a channel cut out in it to redirect the moisture/oil vapours back into the intake side of the turbo.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi168.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu176%2FBSHStreetandStrip%2FPCV008Win.jpg%3Ft%3D1217963930&hash=71a0c18618c6f99094663fe1b1bb1c7c9f519761)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi168.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu176%2FBSHStreetandStrip%2FPCV014.jpg%3Ft%3D1217950042&hash=8f71bbdd1c7af30bcbd8a8f8d9cc82eb82b030d0)
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Having now seen the glorious oil-custard deposited in the catch can I must say that I'm rather glad it doesn't get recycled anywhere!
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Having now seen the glorious oil-custard deposited in the catch can I must say that I'm rather glad it doesn't get recycled anywhere!
Shame it wasn't in the can though RR! :laugh: :wink:
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....
Having now seen the glorious oil-custard deposited in the catch can I must say that I'm rather glad it doesn't get recycled anywhere!
Shame it wasn't in the can though RR! :laugh: :wink:
:grin: :grin:
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....
Having now seen the glorious oil-custard deposited in the catch can I must say that I'm rather glad it doesn't get recycled anywhere!
Shame it wasn't in the can though RR! :laugh: :wink:
....I needed a box of Kleenex!
I've got a 100-mile drive tomorrow so we'll see if I've finally closed it properly.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worstedwitch.com%2Fpix%2F2006%2F09%2F21%2Fsludge.jpg&hash=d1d4cb15d284ff42a804826ba23c487dceff34f9)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worstedwitch.com%2Fpix%2F2006%2F09%2F21%2Fsludge.jpg&hash=d1d4cb15d284ff42a804826ba23c487dceff34f9)
^ "Page Not Found" unfortunately. Shame as yours are always witty :happy2:
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fv211%2Fstokeballoon%2Fsludge.jpg&hash=3af18f542613bd67cd2928ca3859317c6796427b)
saved it to my photob acc.
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:grin:
Thats kicking out some dung! :laugh:
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:grin:
Thats kicking out some dung! :laugh:
Greeners the 'Joke thief!'
:booty: :angry015:
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....
Having now seen the glorious oil-custard deposited in the catch can I must say that I'm rather glad it doesn't get recycled anywhere!
FFS.
Its only like that when water gets mixed with it from condensation building in the catch can from the warm oil.
KRL is confused. He is quoting references for what happens when the oil gets vented to the inlet manifold.
With either fix the oil doesnt get through the inlet, obviously, which stops carbon deposits building. But with the stage 1 fix, the oil goes nowhere apart from back into the engine through the other outlet to the sump. At this stage it is still JUST oil.
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Having now seen the glorious oil-custard deposited in the catch can I must say that I'm rather glad it doesn't get recycled anywhere!
FFS.
Its only like that when water gets mixed with it from condensation building in the catch can from the warm oil.
....Good to know :happy2: - We learn something new every day.
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....
Having now seen the glorious oil-custard deposited in the catch can I must say that I'm rather glad it doesn't get recycled anywhere!
FFS.
Its only like that when water gets mixed with it from condensation building in the catch can from the warm oil.
KRL is confused. He is quoting references for what happens when the oil gets vented to the inlet manifold.
With either fix the oil doesnt get through the inlet, obviously, which stops carbon deposits building. But with the stage 1 fix, the oil goes nowhere apart from back into the engine through the other outlet to the sump. At this stage it is still JUST oil.
I am not confused LOL. With Stage 1 the oil does go back into the sump but still contains the vapors and gases from combustion. The catch can removes this entirely. Simples.
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....
Having now seen the glorious oil-custard deposited in the catch can I must say that I'm rather glad it doesn't get recycled anywhere!
FFS.
Its only like that when water gets mixed with it from condensation building in the catch can from the warm oil.
KRL is confused. He is quoting references for what happens when the oil gets vented to the inlet manifold.
With either fix the oil doesnt get through the inlet, obviously, which stops carbon deposits building. But with the stage 1 fix, the oil goes nowhere apart from back into the engine through the other outlet to the sump. At this stage it is still JUST oil.
I am not confused LOL. With Stage 1 the oil does go back into the sump but still contains the vapors and gases from combustion. The catch can removes this entirely. Simples.
The vapours and gasses from combustion?
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^^^^
Gotcha! Cheers! :drinking:
No wonder - I've been running with it fully open. Very illogical design for doing things imo.
Actually..It's very logical...
if it is tightened against the can.... it will rattle undone and sit at the lowest point of it's thread.
If, however, it is "undone" fully to the bottom of it's thread... it's go nowhere to rattle undone to.
Make sense?
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....
Having now seen the glorious oil-custard deposited in the catch can I must say that I'm rather glad it doesn't get recycled anywhere!
FFS.
Its only like that when water gets mixed with it from condensation building in the catch can from the warm oil.
KRL is confused. He is quoting references for what happens when the oil gets vented to the inlet manifold.
With either fix the oil doesnt get through the inlet, obviously, which stops carbon deposits building. But with the stage 1 fix, the oil goes nowhere apart from back into the engine through the other outlet to the sump. At this stage it is still JUST oil.
I am not confused LOL. With Stage 1 the oil does go back into the sump but still contains the vapors and gases from combustion. The catch can removes this entirely. Simples.
The vapours and gasses from combustion?
Combustion requires a mixture of Air and Fuel. If oil is leaking through the piston rings then so will a certain amount of vapors and gases from combustion.
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^^^^
Gotcha! Cheers! :drinking:
No wonder - I've been running with it fully open. Very illogical design for doing things imo.
Actually..It's very logical...
if it is tightened against the can.... it will rattle undone and sit at the lowest point of it's thread.
If, however, it is "undone" fully to the bottom of it's thread... it's go nowhere to rattle undone to.
Make sense?
I went by the "righty tighty" and "lefty loosey" rule :grin:
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^^^^
Gotcha! Cheers! :drinking:
No wonder - I've been running with it fully open. Very illogical design for doing things imo.
Actually..It's very logical...
if it is tightened against the can.... it will rattle undone and sit at the lowest point of it's thread.
If, however, it is "undone" fully to the bottom of it's thread... it's go nowhere to rattle undone to.
Make sense?
....Yes, the 'rattle-undone' precaution does make very good sense. It's only that our my brain is so hardwired into closure being both clockwise and against a surface. Also 'loose' equals 'open' in my brain and it doesn't tighten until the very bottom (tight arse?). There's nothing to inform the consumer about this in the instructions pdf.
I'm sorry but I'm not a 'hater' of this product but just critical of how BSH haven't bothered to think it through enough imo. The tank itself is very utility in its design appearance but the whole kit is very competitively priced.
[I'm possibly changing mine today and will post a new thread]
:drinking:
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Sorry to go off topic guys but im fitting mine this weekend & am still confused of the way the hoses should go...
should it be right hand nipple on the block to side port of can?
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Sorry to go off topic guys but im fitting mine this weekend & am still confused of the way the hoses should go...
should it be right hand nipple on the block to side port of can?
Yes that is right. BSH say it works best this way :happy2:
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Cheers fella :happy2: