MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Pesky jones on November 14, 2016, 02:07:03 pm
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1) Pick up pipe - who replaces the pipe and who just cleans it? Took me twenty minutes last time to clean it out with petrol, and if I compared the cleaned one vs a new one I don't think I could tell the difference. Its just a pipe with a gauze.
2) Sealant - I got worried that I put too much on last time, plus it was a bit of a pain being so rushed to get the two mating faces together quickly, and cleanly. Is there an alternative gasket available?
3) Sealant - is there an alternative gasket that could be used? Do people use genuine sealant or a off-the-shelf sealant? I seem to remember the OEM sealant being quite pricey. Also is this still the part number for the sealant - SD1 764 04A 2 ?
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For the price of it, I would just replace the pickup personally.
Price for the bits as of a few years ago:
SD176404A2 = SEALANT RRP £17.05+VAT
06F115251A = OIL PICK UP £21.76+VAT
An alternative to the sealant is this stuff for a tenner - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DQFPYVG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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For the price of it, I would just replace the pickup personally.
Price for the bits as of a few years ago:
SD176404A2 = SEALANT RRP £17.05+VAT
06F115251A = OIL PICK UP £21.76+VAT
An alternative to the sealant is this stuff for a tenner - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DQFPYVG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Yeah I think im going to go with the Dirko stuff - heard its the exact same as the VW stuff.
"For the price of it, I would just replace the pickup personally." This is what im referring to - why? Just because it is "only" £30 therefore replace it? I understand this philosophy when it comes to parts that may not show an obvious loss in integrity (cam followers etc). But when the difference between the two really is negligible to the point of there being no physical difference - why? I feel like a lot of people might just go with the flow - no pun intended
EDIT: unless of course paying £30 is deemed preferable to cleaning the pipe lol
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Well, speaking on my behalf of myself, it's because I'm too feckin lazy to sit there scrubbing something for 20 minutes when I could just bung a new one on in <1 minute :smiley:
There is no reason why you can't, and shouldn't, clean it though. It has no moving parts.
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Loctite 5920... thats what we used on a fellow forum members sump last year.
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Dirko is the one you want peskyjones
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I just bought a new pickup pipe for my PD engine (£12 new 'old stock' from a dealer online) and also have the Dirko sealant. It was about £7 delivered on eBay
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Take it that the pickup is "new old..." Not the sealant?
One reason i wont buy cheap sealant from unknown sources is that it ages very differently depending on storage conditions as well as time. Performance as a sealant then becomes unpredictable.
My pipe was close to £40 recently, no reason to not clean it, rather than renew it, other than I had been suckered into buying one before opening the sump. Waste of money.
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If it can be cleaned, then clean it.
I only replaced mine as we did it late Saturday evening at my cousins garage when nobody was open should I have needed to replace it. To be honest mine didn't even need cleaning but since I had the new on I just chucked it in there.
One thing I would also suggest everyone do at some point is replace the dipstick. They're only a tenner or so but as they age the plastic bits on there go brittle and can fall off, down the tube and in to the sump.... which can (partially) block the strainer.... Has happened to me
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the plastic bits on there go brittle and can fall off, down the tube and in to the sump.... which can (partially) block the strainer.... Has happened to me
Happened to me too :ashamed:
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Makes sense! Cheers for the heads up
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the plastic bits on there go brittle and can fall off, down the tube and in to the sump.... which can (partially) block the strainer.... Has happened to me
Happened to me too :ashamed:
I'm on my 3rd one :mad:
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Not me yet but I'll order one cheers :happy2:
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Thanks for dipstick heads up. Sounds like a good bit of preventative maintenance.
Why do they have plastic at the business end? Back in the day these were all metal parts.
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Its the little plastic ball half way up and the bit at the top with the o-ring that went on mine
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Cheers guys, have ordered one.
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This changeout sounds a very useful preventative.
A PN for the dip stick would be really helpful - thanks fellas.
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I've ordered this - 06f103663h - hopefully its the right one!
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A Google search suggests that's the tube rather than the dipstick itself?
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Haha yeah it is the tube, stupidly I assumed that's what we were talking about :signLOL: :doh:
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Standing by here.... :signLOL:
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Picking the DIPSTICK after work mate, ill post the P/N then
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Thought the tps in my area is open till 6... apparently not. Tomorrow now
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All I did was to cut off the old pipe and crimp, then recover the inner mating parts and replace with new pipe pushed onto the fittings and a jubilee clip at each end.
Ian.
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@grey golfster (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7295) Part number is
06F 115 611 F
To my horror when I removed the old dipstick the little orange ball was no where to be seen. Where is it? In my effing sump that's where it is. Good thing I was taking it off anyway
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I've done this before on a friend's AAX, but I finally attacked mine this weekend.
Someone has been in there before. Black Loctite used instead of the VW stuff. Oil pickup was clear apart from some orange dipstick crumbs and a small amount of other debris.
I would seriously recommend just replacing the pickup (and the green O ring) because bits of crap gets stuck behind the 'lip' which is hard to get out. But as I did it impulsively, I hadn't armed myself with any parts. So I did what I said I was too lazy to do and scrubbed it for 20 mins :grin: Reused the O ring too as it was still pliable.
There was quite a lot of generic crumbs in the sump. No idea what it was, but thankfully not metal shavings. It's all nicely scrubbed out for peace of mind.
I thought I would throw in some Mobil 1 0W40 'New Life' as it was on offer over the weekend and the engine seem to like it. Very smooth.
Previously I was using Silkolene 5W40 which is a racing oil and clearly best saved for summer use because it was causing about 3-4 seconds of tappet noise on start up, which is an obvious sign of an oil being too thick to reach the head quickly. Even though it's a 5W, it doesn't necessarily pump like other 5Ws from cold.
And finally, never use windscreen glue to seal a sump to an engine block!!! Not my engine, but stumbled on it over the weekend and was in disbelief about the things some people do to their engines!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fdd20%2FCrasher1964%2F18Toilpickup.jpg&hash=2883488f7195452538fe7af0d5e8996fbacbd5be)
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Nice one pudding - I too have done it on an AXX before and am doing it tomorrow on my new BWA.
Did you just use axle stands? Do it by yourself?
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Have you got the correct long ball head Allen socket thing? You'll struggle if not
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Yeah did it on my own and used Axle stands.
I recommend tying the turbo oil drain pipe to the driveshaft out of the way (you might want to get a new gasket for that, I reused mine), and also move the electric water pump out of the way. Once you've put the sealant on the sump, you've only got about 20 mins to get it fitted and torqued down, and these 2 things can get in the way when offering the sump back up to the block.
I know it's a sealer that cures in the absence of air (can't remember the name for that) but I've found it starts to harden regardless. I used the Dirko stuff from fleabay / amazon.
Yeah as above, a long 5mm ball ended allen key for the 2 bolts tucked up behind the bell housing will be very handy. I lost mine, but got away with a normal allen key. I was really unprepared for it tbh, but blagged it somehow :grin:
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Have you got the correct long ball head Allen socket thing? You'll struggle if not
Yeah I've got that. Done this whole job before - just refreshing myself!
Yeah did it on my own and used Axle stands.
I recommend tying the turbo oil drain pipe to the driveshaft out of the way (you might want to get a new gasket for that, I reused mine), and also move the electric water pump out of the way. Once you've put the sealant on the sump, you've only got about 20 mins to get it fitted and torqued down, and these 2 things can get in the way when offering the sump back up to the block.
I know it's a sealer that cures in the absence of air (can't remember the name for that) but I've found it starts to harden regardless. I used the Dirko stuff from fleabay / amazon.
Yeah as above, a long 5mm ball ended allen key for the 2 bolts tucked up behind the bell housing will be very handy. I lost mine, but got away with a normal allen key. I was really unprepared for it tbh, but blagged it somehow :grin:
Yeah I ended up tying up a few things back out the way aswell - made it a lot easier
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:happy2:
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Have you got the correct long ball head Allen socket thing? You'll struggle if not
Yeah I've got that. Done this whole job before - just refreshing myself!
Yeah did it on my own and used Axle stands.
I recommend tying the turbo oil drain pipe to the driveshaft out of the way (you might want to get a new gasket for that, I reused mine), and also move the electric water pump out of the way. Once you've put the sealant on the sump, you've only got about 20 mins to get it fitted and torqued down, and these 2 things can get in the way when offering the sump back up to the block.
I know it's a sealer that cures in the absence of air (can't remember the name for that) but I've found it starts to harden regardless. I used the Dirko stuff from fleabay / amazon.
Yeah as above, a long 5mm ball ended allen key for the 2 bolts tucked up behind the bell housing will be very handy. I lost mine, but got away with a normal allen key. I was really unprepared for it tbh, but blagged it somehow :grin:
Yeah I ended up tying up a few things back out the way aswell - made it a lot easier
Ah OK, I was going to say I thought you'd done it already. Doesn't hurt to go over it again I suppose, for anyone contemplating doing it.
I think it's a must really. I was lucky with mine as the previous owners appear to have looked after the car, but some folk won't be so fortunate. Just wish they'd documented it so I didn't have to repeat the work!
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Have you got the correct long ball head Allen socket thing? You'll struggle if not
Yeah I've got that. Done this whole job before - just refreshing myself!
Yeah did it on my own and used Axle stands.
I recommend tying the turbo oil drain pipe to the driveshaft out of the way (you might want to get a new gasket for that, I reused mine), and also move the electric water pump out of the way. Once you've put the sealant on the sump, you've only got about 20 mins to get it fitted and torqued down, and these 2 things can get in the way when offering the sump back up to the block.
I know it's a sealer that cures in the absence of air (can't remember the name for that) but I've found it starts to harden regardless. I used the Dirko stuff from fleabay / amazon.
Yeah as above, a long 5mm ball ended allen key for the 2 bolts tucked up behind the bell housing will be very handy. I lost mine, but got away with a normal allen key. I was really unprepared for it tbh, but blagged it somehow :grin:
Yeah I ended up tying up a few things back out the way aswell - made it a lot easier
Ah OK, I was going to say I thought you'd done it already. Doesn't hurt to go over it again I suppose, for anyone contemplating doing it.
I think it's a must really. I was lucky with mine as the previous owners appear to have looked after the car, but some folk won't be so fortunate. Just wish they'd documented it so I didn't have to repeat the work!
Yeah I did it on my old car, im now doing it on my new car as I know the importance of it :smiley:
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Did it today, all good in the sump and pick up pipe virtually clean, apart from the old little orange ball off the old dipstick stuck in the pick up pipe.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG-20161129-WA0028_zpsvoorcfut.jpeg&hash=77c850b6052772274bee2717bffde7d03a0a642d)
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Yup, exactly what mine looked like.
Your sump looks clean too.
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Yeah cleaned the sump out.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftriellymtb%2FMobile_Uploads%2FIMG_20161129_144956_zpsam3wxkaw.jpg&hash=2e592c558207a9e19595b4e664a53e00946521d4)
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Bit of a revival here @Pesky jones (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=17818) but I'm doing a service in the next few weeks so I'll do this while I'm at it.
Closing in on 100,000miles and it's never been done!
1) Can I get away with just doing the pickup pipe or do you recommend dropping the sump?
2) Can I clean the pickup pipe and gauze or should I order a new one? If so, does anyone have the part number?
3) Do I need anything else? O-Ring, specialised tools etc.
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1) You have to drop the sump to get access to the pick up pipe.
2) I just cleaned mine thoroughly with petrol etc untill I was happy with it although I think for the price of it the majority of people buy a new one.
3) You need the pick-up pipe o-ring which you can order separately (AKS sell them), a new sump washer, the sealant to put the sump back on. Also long ball-headed allen keys as three of the the sump bolts are quite tricky to get to. They are at an angle so you need the ball headed key. Like this - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bahco-9770-BE-9770-1-5-10mm/dp/B002SHPOZO/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1491292088&sr=8-7&keywords=allen+key+set (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bahco-9770-BE-9770-1-5-10mm/dp/B002SHPOZO/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1491292088&sr=8-7&keywords=allen+key+set)
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1) You have to drop the sump to get access to the pick up pipe.
2) I just cleaned mine thoroughly with petrol etc untill I was happy with it although I think for the price of it the majority of people buy a new one.
3) You need the pick-up pipe o-ring which you can order separately (AKS sell them), a new sump washer, the sealant to put the sump back on. Also long ball-headed allen keys as three of the the sump bolts are quite tricky to get to. They are at an angle so you need the ball headed key. Like this - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bahco-9770-BE-9770-1-5-10mm/dp/B002SHPOZO/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1491292088&sr=8-7&keywords=allen+key+set (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bahco-9770-BE-9770-1-5-10mm/dp/B002SHPOZO/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1491292088&sr=8-7&keywords=allen+key+set)
Ah sh*te, I thought I could get away without dropping it and reapplying sealant!
Guess I'll tackle the lot. I've to service the two golfs the same day so I was trying to limit the amount of work!
Expect a couple of texts for advice on the matter :signLOL:
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Haha afraid not. I'd advise doing it to be honest, good to see what state it's in as its a good general indicator of health in my opinion. I don't think it should take you too long to be honest, but I'd get up early if you've got to squeeze in other jobs :happy2: yeah I'll be more then happy to help where I can. Give me a shout when you're doing it, hopefully can offer a few tips.
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Sorry one more question:
I used a bit of this Loctite 5699 in work 3 months ago, can I also use it on the sump?
http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/garage-equipment/head-gasket-exhaust-repairs/loctite-5699-premium-silicone-grey-gasket-maker-sealant
Temp range -50C to 250C
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That will probably work OK, but the Dirko stuff from ebay or Amazon is a safer bet as it's specifically made for sealing sumps.
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When you do put the sealant on, you dont need much. Some have simply smeared it onto the surface with a finger. It really doesnt need much and you dont want excess inside the sump that can break off. A really thin bead is all that's required.
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I did it exactly as Dirko instructed. A 3mm bead in the middle.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.freeauctiondesigns.com%2Fmaksim1%2FDIRKO_HT_ANW.png&hash=1d96bc123f428c0d336484d194208485ebb8cc95)
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Can't see the pic. I guess the best option is to do whatever they do on the assembly line at VW. I've just seen that you really don't need much of a bead to get a good seal. The surfaces are machined and dont need much to form a tight seal.
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It's just a pic of Dirko man holding a tube of Dirko and squidging a thin bead onto a sump.
A 3mm bead will flatten out to the width of the sump flange perfectly :happy2:
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Ah yeah I've used the stuff before.
I'm going to go with the loctite since I've used it before on a motor enclosure and it worked fine
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I did it exactly as Dirko instructed. A 3mm bead in the middle.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.freeauctiondesigns.com%2Fmaksim1%2FDIRKO_HT_ANW.png&hash=1d96bc123f428c0d336484d194208485ebb8cc95)
Hey Pudding,
When you say middle, is that on the inside edge of the bolt holes?
Thanks
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I smeared the bead flat across the whole mating surface, so it didn't matter in my case.
But if you want to leave it as a bead, then yep, inside edge of the bolt holes :happy2:
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There's a good picture on Pelican Parts.
Two of the DIY videos I watches spoke of dropping the 2 hard to reach bolts next to the gearbox into the bell housing - is this a genuine concern? - nobody else ever mentioned this.
(DSG BWA here)
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That's pants. Just get in there with a ball ended allen key or a swivel joint and they come out nice and easy. They don't need to drop into the bell housing at all, what the actual? There's some proper shyte information out there :grin:
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One UK based guy dropped both, luckily caught on the lip, on a TT but all the same. Only part I'm worried about.
I've bought a 160mm 3/8 5mm ball head hex socket.
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Seriously mate, don't sweat that part. The only tricky part with those bolts is getting the angle right with the tool but dozens of us on here have dropped the sump with zero issues :happy2: Just take your time and don't wiggle the wrench/allen key around too much when they drop off the last couple of threads and they come out dead easy :happy2:
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Due to shaft girth, it will be harder to line up the 3/8 on an extension - do able, but you would be better off with a slim T-handle allen, but with a ball like below:
(https://cdn10.bigcommerce.com/s-025coz5t/products/4209/images/8859/%2524_57__82642.1505561469.1280.1280.jpg?c=2)
Either way, get under the sump with a phone light and work out how to line up the tool.
Recommend:
Dry practice installing the sump without sealant.
Get all the bolts slightly threaded so that there is some movement in the sump, leave the 2 hidden bolts till last then tighten them all up fully.
The bolts have a really low torque value, don't go mad tightening them up.