MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Norbreck21a on November 24, 2010, 11:35:26 am
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Hi guys wonder if you can help.
A friend of mine has a 55 plate GTI, and has got an MIL light on the dash. I've done a quick scan for him, and it's come up with the following:
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Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 907 115 HW: 1K0 907 115
Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 00 0070
Revision: --H01--- Serial number: VWZ7Z0E2836315
Coding: 0403000318070060
Shop #: WSC 00150 210 71522
VCID: E3E31C895B27
1 Fault Found:
001089 - EVAP Emission Control Sys: Incorrect Flow
P0441 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 26
Mileage: 106462 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 17:05:16
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 761 /min
Load: 16.1 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 84.0°C
Temperature: 10.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.478 V
Readiness: 0000 0000
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Looking at Ross Techs webiste, it appears it could be to do with the following:
Possible Causes
* Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Purge Regulator Valve (N80) faulty/jammed
* Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Purge Solenoid Valve (N115) faulty/jammed
* Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Sealing faulty
* Pipes between Tank Breathing and Throttle Body leaky/blocked
Questions are:
1) Is this a cheap or expensive fix ?
2) Is the car still drivable until the problem is sorted without further damage ?
3) Does anyone know of a good indi that could sort this in the Warrington or Cheshire area for him.
Sorry, but as I own a soot chucker, I'm neither use or ornament to him on this ?
Cheers
Andrew
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Have a look at the Charcoal Cannister.
On the top there is a pipe that runs to just below the coolant bottle. Check this pipe. I used to get that and found that i had a snapped pipe. I also fixed someone elses car who had this recently (although his was a loose fitting one)
I haven't got ETKA handy till later but i will post up the part no.s for the pipe on it's own and the charcoal cannister complete.
The pipe is about £9 from a dealer and the Cannister complete (including the pipe) is about £90
I will post pics up of the pipe from mine later. But that would be the first place i would check. I've seen a few cars with this and it's always been that pipe.
Tell your mate not to brim the tank when refuelling as i think this is what causes the problem. I have stopped Brimming mine and the problem has not re-occured in the last 10k miles (this is just my opinion as to the cause but was suggested to me by my local dealer)
In either case it doesn't require a trip to the dealers to fix. Anyone with a basic understanding of using a screwdriver/spanner can do it. The pipe is literally a 5 sec swap :happy2:
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This is the pipe
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2F1695663c.jpg&hash=dcc9e709e623d612b2ffcce2fb882c98d64c1ba5)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2Fe9a6f846.jpg&hash=a55a9282ba7d6797cd02981967a8d7b503ac1d6f)
Part no.s are:
Pipe Only - 1K0 201 160 BG Breather Line - £8.50 (approx)
Full Canister - 1K0 201 797 AB Active Charcoal Container - £80.93 (Approx)
I would replace the Pipe first as if it's not that he has only lost £9 rather than waste £80 to find it's something else :happy2:
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Cheers for that Carl,
I've pointed my friend to this discussion so that he can see for himself.
thanks very much for taking the time though :happy2:
Andrew
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My edition 30 used to come up with a EVAP fault, it would clear and not come back for 6 months, never felt anything when it came or went though
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Cheers for the responses guys.
I've just spoken to the owner and he says he's checked the pipe going into the charcoal canister and it seems fine, secured and no breaks or tears.
He says he's purchased a new N80 valve and pipes from VW for £26 (what ever that is), and will fit that at the weekend and see if it makes any difference ?
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My edition 30 used to come up with a EVAP fault, it would clear and not come back for 6 months, never felt anything when it came or went though
Same with mine for years now.
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Yeah I got this problem too, it only bring the cel light on when it's really cold. I tried a new N80 but it never worked and have a new charcoal cannister on my back seat to fit sometime. They say brimming the talk causes fuel to leak through to the N80 and charcoal cannister breaking them.
I tried to shake the cannister up once which did keep the code away for a while.
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I just found this fault on mine and nearly always brim the tank. Can anyone confirm that this will stop the fault from occuring.... or should I check for damage anywhere first?
:smiley:
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I just found this fault on mine and nearly always brim the tank. Can anyone confirm that this will stop the fault from occuring.... or should I check for damage anywhere first?
:smiley:
Brimming will stop the fault happening but check the charcoal canister and breather pipe as well.
If you have the fault already, not brimming the tank maybe too late in my experience.
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I've had a similar fault on mine too, it doesn't help the fact VW snapped the pipe when they did the cambelt, barstewardss. I have glued it up and only had the fault a couple of times since, will order a new pipe tomorrow, cheers!
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I just found this fault on mine and nearly always brim the tank. Can anyone confirm that this will stop the fault from occuring.... or should I check for damage anywhere first?
:smiley:
Brimming will stop the fault happening but check the charcoal canister and breather pipe as well.
If you have the fault already, not brimming the tank maybe too late in my experience.
thanks... I will try clear the fault first and then check the bits you have mentioned :happy2:
hopefully they will not be damaged.. problem soved!
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I have the same fault on my ED30. Cleared it but it came back immediately.
What would the symptoms be/downside to running with this fault?
I'm off to France in a few hours on holiday so it would be nice to know its not a big deal to run with it. Oh, And I generally top my tank right up as well.
Can I just spray the charcoal with brake cleaner? The pipes look fine by the way.
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Hi guys just wondering how do you brim the evap charcoal container
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How do you brim the charcoal container
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How do you brim the charcoal container
The brimming is referring to the fuel tank.
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You don't. If you brim the petrol tank it causes this issue.
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I still get this code logged everyday and haven't brimmed the tank in 6 months. Going to start replacing things soon.
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Brimming the tank does not cause this directly, neither will ceasing it rid you of the error. I brim my tank every time i fuel the car and don't have a problem
The 'active charcoal' within the cannister most likely needs replacing (although it could be caused by a leaky pipe or a faulty EVAP valve).
You can 'delete' the cannister and allow the vapour to vent to atmosphere. If you keep the valve then you shouldn't get an error so long as youplumb the pipes correctly
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The canister about 70 quid from memory, so not especially cheap. Dumping fumes to atmosphere (inc PCV gases) is an MOT fail if they smell them or spot disconnected pipes dangling around in the engine bay. It's better to tackle the issue and just forget about it.
I replaced the canister, the solenoid valve and the pipe from the canister to the connection by the brake servo and that seems to have sorted it.
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My car is in for this tomorrow under warranty.
Will update causes and cost.
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My car is in for this tomorrow under warranty.
Will update causes and cost.
Any update on this? I'm getting this fault now and I am suspecting that it's the N80 valve.
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My car is in for this tomorrow under warranty.
Will update causes and cost.
Any update on this? I'm getting this fault now and I am suspecting that it's the N80 valve.
Yes they changed the valve (carbon canister) sorted!
Was not covered under VW warranty.
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I changed the pipe - no joy.
Tested the N80 valve using VCDS Output Tests. Could hear the valve clicking successfully, so I don't think it's a fault.
Next up is carbon cannister. Getting it replaced soon.
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Yes they changed the valve (carbon canister) sorted!
Was not covered under VW warranty.
Thanks for the update, I'm going to do the valve first then I will do the canister if that doesn't clear it.
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Sorry that wasn't very clear. Just checked the VW paperwork.
They changed valve and pipework under warranty. (This cleared the fault for about a month)
Fault came back and they changed the carbon canister. Not had problem since (Charged me around £130.00)
This included a engine diagnostic charge which I wasn't too pleased with being I had given them the fault code before booking it in.
They did however get my Bluetooth working and had to remove the unit to get to. They did't charge me for this so thought it was reasonable,
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Hah! I thought it wasn't very clear, but didn't want to sound cheeky :)
Thanks for posting your success story!
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This came up on mine again yesterday (after months of being ok) - EML came on a day after filling the tank to the
brim. Weirdly happened after giving the car foot-to-floor in 2nd to redline at the same place and tank level as before, guess it just shows under the same conditions the car will throw the same fault.
Vagcom scanned the car today, and the same P0441 fault appeared. Have cleared the fault & light is off, with car driving ok. I really must get on & fit the new canister and hoses I've bought...
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..very slow on this topic .....but I've just joined this forum. Anyways - I just want to say thanks to all. This was the same issue on mine. The pictures posted helped me find and sort the issue out.
Cheers to All
Phil
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hi all.
i have the classic p-0441 code too. the pipework is all solid and fine, one thing i have noticed is the round bracket that fits into the top of the canister tub can twist?! Is this a locking bracket that twists into place or should this be a solid fit, could this be causing my issue or can that fit be lose (ish)
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(http://C:\Users\simon.shotter\Desktop)
ITs here!
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Sorry for bringing this up but I've two questions;
1. Has anyone experienced an intermittent lose of power from this?
2. My car's under the Das Welt Auto warranty do you think I can get this covered under it?
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I've got this code myself now. I was trying to remove the cap off the top of the canister and ended up snapping the pipe off. It now looks like the pipe in the pic of page 1. My question is how do I swap this pipe out as the other end is attached to a another small white plastic pipe and I can't for the life of me remove it. Any suggestions appreciated, thanks.
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A lot of people seem to do that. When I bought my ED30 I noticed the previous owner glued it back on.
Anyway, removing the other end is just a simple case of unclipping it. It's the same 'speed fitting' the fuel filter uses, so you press in a couple of tabs whilst pushing the pipe forwards to relieve the tension, then it simply pulls off. Usually takes a few attempts to find the knack, but it takes seconds when you know how.
Fit the new pipe to the carbon can BEFORE clipping the other end in. It's a 90 degree-ish twist lock. You'll never get the cap on/off the carbon can with the pipe in situ without breaking/bending something, hence the pic on page 1.
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A lot of people seem to do that. When I bought my ED30 I noticed the previous owner glued it back on.
Anyway, removing the other end is just a simple case of unclipping it. It's the same 'speed fitting' the fuel filter uses, so you press in a couple of tabs whilst pushing the pipe forwards to relieve the tension, then it simply pulls off. Usually takes a few attempts to find the knack, but it takes seconds when you know how.
Fit the new pipe to the carbon can BEFORE clipping the other end in. It's a 90 degree-ish twist lock. You'll never get the cap on/off the carbon can with the pipe in situ without breaking/bending something, hence the pic on page 1.
A belated thanks for the reply Pudding. I glued the pipe back in place while I waited for the new pipe and the engine light cleared. I replaced it anyway as per your advice (successfully!) and gave the cannister a good shake while I was there. The light went off for almost a month but has come back again now. I guess I'll try a new canister next and hope it's that. On the plus side I haven't had my faulty engine oil light come on for over a month now (touch wood!).
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Exact same thing happenned to me over the weekend. Snapped the pipe when trying to change the cannister.
Luckily I managed to get to TPS 10 minutes before closing time. New one cost somewhere between £11 and £15. And then fitted it before connecting the pipe to the rear of the engine.
Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
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^Did you buy the canister new? How much did it cost can I ask?
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Canisters are best part of £100 from VW. There are cheaper ones on eBay - no idea if they're any good though
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I paid around the £20 mark from xkd_2013 on ebay. People from this forum have bought things from him before with no issues.
The only problem I had was the O ring on my pipe was a bit loose so wouldn't let the pipe fit into the hole but when I got a new pipe the O ring was more tight. I had to use a bit of fairy on the O ring and the pipe slot straight into the hole.
Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
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Yeah the canister is bloody expensive for a plastic box filled with tiny charcoal pellets. Anything that throws the EML is expensive because they know you need it to pass inspections. Gits.
What usually happens is the internal filters start to break up and bits of it get stuck in the pipes, or charcoal pellets find their way into the N80 valve. And naturally, the box is sealed so you can't service it. Gits.
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Is there a way to tell whether it's the cannister or N80 valve that's failed?
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When mine threw this code, I replaced the n80 valve first and that cured it. Bought the valve new off eBay so may be a chinese genuine copy.
Fault has not come back in 18 months.
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When mine threw this code, I replaced the n80 valve first and that cured it. Bought the valve new off eBay so may be a chinese genuine copy.
Fault has not come back in 18 months.
I did the same with genuine parts but also replaced the hose that connects to the valve, since it was revised in the meantime. Solved my issue. :smiley:
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You know when the evap system has a leak because there is no "whooooooosh" when you undo the fuel filler cap.
With N80 valve, they can stick open. I don't know if it's a normally open or normally closed valve, but if you take it off and you can blow through it both with and without 12V across the pins, it's fooked.
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You know when the evap system has a leak because there is no "whooooooosh" when you undo the fuel filler cap.
With N80 valve, they can stick open. I don't know if it's a normally open or normally closed valve, but if you take it off and you can blow through it both with and without 12V across the pins, it's fooked.
I think the normal is closed. It just opens when the ECU orders it to, to recycle the gas vapours.
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Might look at replacing the valve first. Is the correct part no. for the N80 valve 06E-906-517-A? Thanks.
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Just to update. Replaced the N80 valve almost a month ago and the engine light hasn't returned so hopefully solved this. Managed to find a used genuine one off ebay off a low mileage car. I recall a loud clicking from the engine when I started the car previously which seems to have gone as well.
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I opted to replace the charcoal canister , took a chance on one from Hong Kong .
Certainly looks good quality and perfect fit.
Just need to have the warning light reset and hopefully it don't come back on , if it does will replace the valve .
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I have this P0441 code and it is effecting how the car drives revs are hunting and everything massive flat spot in mid range of the revs, I have brought a new N80 valve just waiting for it to arrive just hoping that is my problem and not something else