Post by: AJP on August 29, 2017, 08:56:55 pm
One thing I'm not sure about is how much more light they should put on the road than standard halogens. It seems that although they look bright from outside the car, when driving they don't really light up the road.
So, a couple of possibilities:
The bulbs are of a temperature that creates less light - I've read that both too high a temperature, and too low a temperature can cause this, and there's therefore a sweet spot, maybe around 5000k? I'm not sure what bulbs are in there.
The other thing to investigate is alignment. I know the Depos apparently have manual adjustment - how does this work?
To confuse matters, I'm 99% sure that my car came with OEM Xenons from the factory. There was a fault code relating (IIRC) to the Xenon adjusters popping up in the past but I'd always ignored this, as until I fitted the Depos the car was on normal halogens and I didn't deem it applicable or an issue. But of course now I'm on Depos with HIDs I'm wondering if it's something I need to look into.
One thing worth mentioning is that when we fitted the Depos and plugged the loom in to them, you could hear a motor whir for a second or two, with each headlight. Was this the OEM Xenon adjustment kicking in and 'trying' to adjust the Depos? I'm hoping there's someone out there with experience of fitting Depos to a car that used to have OEM Xenons. I've a feeling this might be quite a rare situation so therefore it could be difficult to troubleshoot!
I had the coding set to Bi Xenons without shutters as per the usual regime.
I also have the feature (whatever it's called) where if you unlock the car in the dark the lights come on. I think I've read that you should disable this feature with Xenons/HIDs as it can burn something out? If that's the case I'll get that sorted ASAP.
Bit of a long post, so apologies for that, but I've got zero experience of Xenons or HIDs so I could really do with a bit of advice.
Thanks in advance :)
Edit: One more thing I forgot to mention - the full/undipped bulbs appear to be normal halogen. Is this right?
Post by: 99hagued on August 29, 2017, 10:44:27 pm
Post by: lukemk5gti on August 30, 2017, 08:27:30 am
Does your car have headlight washers? @mkmg76 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7483) mentioned before that xenons have to come with them as standard due to glare.
The full headlights are normal halogen on xenon setups yes. You can opt for a white light but realistically there's no need.
Last time I manually aligned a set of lights on a golf, I had to do it by hand jiggling the bulb until I found the sweet spot. No screws or anything which was surprising as a big pothole could knock them back out.
Post by: AJP on August 30, 2017, 08:59:36 am
Yes, it has headlight washers. I'll have a look for the adjuster.
There's a place quite local to me that apparently does a bit with HIDs etc, so I'll probably call in soon, as well as going to my tester to see if the beam is legal/correct.
Post by: pudding on August 30, 2017, 10:25:56 am
Post by: AJP on August 30, 2017, 03:34:33 pm
As above, check you have the yaw sensor attached to the nearside wishbone. The headlights won't self level without it. It could be what the error relates to and the lights could just be pointing at the ground, hence the poor visibility.Would the OEM sensor recognise and level a pair of non-OEM Depos though...? That's what I'm not sure about.
Post by: willni on August 30, 2017, 08:57:05 pm
Therefore regardless if you have HID or halogens in them you won't get any better lighting on the road, because of the lense. An auto-electrician told me this with a previous set of xenon copies I had different car though.
The motor you heard in the headlights when you switched them on would be the headlight height adjuster, normally found on the headlight switch this just sets them both to the same height and isn't auto leveling.
Full beam beam on xenons opens the shutter on the lense to allow the full light to pass through the lense of the light. Normally on dipped beam there is a shutter have reduces this output by 50% (at least is the case for genuine xenons) as well as the halogen bulb in the reflector to help light up the upper part of the area infront instead of just the ground.
Hope this helps.
Post by: AJP on August 30, 2017, 09:13:29 pm
To be honest I'm near certain with this, it's the actual lense in the headlight projector that is limiting the light output, in replicas like depo they generally have a max output of 2000-3000 (forget the value) this is to that you don't require headlight washers as is the case in the EU.Great info mate, appreciate that. Definitely answered a few questions.
Therefore regardless if you have HID or halogens in them you won't get any better lighting on the road, because of the lense. An auto-electrician told me this with a previous set of xenon copies I had different car though.
The motor you heard in the headlights when you switched them on would be the headlight height adjuster, normally found on the headlight switch this just sets them both to the same height and isn't auto leveling.
Full beam beam on xenons opens the shutter on the lense to allow the full light to pass through the lense of the light. Normally on dipped beam there is a shutter have reduces this output by 50% (at least is the case for genuine xenons) as well as the halogen bulb in the reflector to help light up the upper part of the area infront instead of just the ground.
Hope this helps.
I think the best I can do is pick a bulb that emits the most suitable light (they are a bit 'blue' for me if I'm honest), make sure they're properly aligned, and then do a bit of driving to see how I find them.
Interesting what you say about the lense on aftermarket units. That would explain things to a certain extent.
When all's said and done, they were a bargain, so if I find they're not quite to my taste it's really no biggie. At the very least I'm learning a bit more and these kind of threads get the info out for the rest of the forum.
Post by: willni on August 30, 2017, 09:20:03 pm
To be honest I'm near certain with this, it's the actual lense in the headlight projector that is limiting the light output, in replicas like depo they generally have a max output of 2000-3000 (forget the value) this is to that you don't require headlight washers as is the case in the EU.Great info mate, appreciate that. Definitely answered a few questions.
Therefore regardless if you have HID or halogens in them you won't get any better lighting on the road, because of the lense. An auto-electrician told me this with a previous set of xenon copies I had different car though.
The motor you heard in the headlights when you switched them on would be the headlight height adjuster, normally found on the headlight switch this just sets them both to the same height and isn't auto leveling.
Full beam beam on xenons opens the shutter on the lense to allow the full light to pass through the lense of the light. Normally on dipped beam there is a shutter have reduces this output by 50% (at least is the case for genuine xenons) as well as the halogen bulb in the reflector to help light up the upper part of the area infront instead of just the ground.
Hope this helps.
I think the best I can do is pick a bulb that emits the most suitable light (they are a bit 'blue' for me if I'm honest), make sure they're properly aligned, and then do a bit of driving to see how I find them.
Interesting what you say about the lense on aftermarket units. That would explain things to a certain extent.
When all's said and done, they were a bargain, so if I find they're not quite to my taste it's really no biggie. At the very least I'm learning a bit more and these kind of threads get the info out for the rest of the forum.
As long as you learn something new its not money wasted, it's the reason why I'm doing a full xenon retrofit instead of copies which would be easier. Plus my brother has genuines and they light up the road in the middle of the day they're that bright hence what I'm going for lol
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Post by: AJP on August 30, 2017, 09:26:13 pm
Hmmm.. to be honest that's what I was expecting from this setup. I guess there's a reason the OEM kit is a few quid more. But yeah, no harm done. I have a feeling I'll be on the hunt for some OEM Xenons at some point, but there's that ever-expanding list of other sh*t at the same time!To be honest I'm near certain with this, it's the actual lense in the headlight projector that is limiting the light output, in replicas like depo they generally have a max output of 2000-3000 (forget the value) this is to that you don't require headlight washers as is the case in the EU.Great info mate, appreciate that. Definitely answered a few questions.
Therefore regardless if you have HID or halogens in them you won't get any better lighting on the road, because of the lense. An auto-electrician told me this with a previous set of xenon copies I had different car though.
The motor you heard in the headlights when you switched them on would be the headlight height adjuster, normally found on the headlight switch this just sets them both to the same height and isn't auto leveling.
Full beam beam on xenons opens the shutter on the lense to allow the full light to pass through the lense of the light. Normally on dipped beam there is a shutter have reduces this output by 50% (at least is the case for genuine xenons) as well as the halogen bulb in the reflector to help light up the upper part of the area infront instead of just the ground.
Hope this helps.
I think the best I can do is pick a bulb that emits the most suitable light (they are a bit 'blue' for me if I'm honest), make sure they're properly aligned, and then do a bit of driving to see how I find them.
Interesting what you say about the lense on aftermarket units. That would explain things to a certain extent.
When all's said and done, they were a bargain, so if I find they're not quite to my taste it's really no biggie. At the very least I'm learning a bit more and these kind of threads get the info out for the rest of the forum.
As long as you learn something new its not money wasted, it's the reason why I'm doing a full xenon retrofit instead of copies which would be easier. Plus my brother has genuines and they light up the road in the middle of the day they're that bright hence what I'm going for lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm sure there are a few guides already out there, but feel free to stick a thread up if you get a chance. I'll be interested to read up on the install.
Post by: willni on August 30, 2017, 09:36:43 pm
Hmmm.. to be honest that's what I was expecting from this setup. I guess there's a reason the OEM kit is a few quid more. But yeah, no harm done. I have a feeling I'll be on the hunt for some OEM Xenons at some point, but there's that ever-expanding list of other sh*t at the same time!To be honest I'm near certain with this, it's the actual lense in the headlight projector that is limiting the light output, in replicas like depo they generally have a max output of 2000-3000 (forget the value) this is to that you don't require headlight washers as is the case in the EU.Great info mate, appreciate that. Definitely answered a few questions.
Therefore regardless if you have HID or halogens in them you won't get any better lighting on the road, because of the lense. An auto-electrician told me this with a previous set of xenon copies I had different car though.
The motor you heard in the headlights when you switched them on would be the headlight height adjuster, normally found on the headlight switch this just sets them both to the same height and isn't auto leveling.
Full beam beam on xenons opens the shutter on the lense to allow the full light to pass through the lense of the light. Normally on dipped beam there is a shutter have reduces this output by 50% (at least is the case for genuine xenons) as well as the halogen bulb in the reflector to help light up the upper part of the area infront instead of just the ground.
Hope this helps.
I think the best I can do is pick a bulb that emits the most suitable light (they are a bit 'blue' for me if I'm honest), make sure they're properly aligned, and then do a bit of driving to see how I find them.
Interesting what you say about the lense on aftermarket units. That would explain things to a certain extent.
When all's said and done, they were a bargain, so if I find they're not quite to my taste it's really no biggie. At the very least I'm learning a bit more and these kind of threads get the info out for the rest of the forum.
As long as you learn something new its not money wasted, it's the reason why I'm doing a full xenon retrofit instead of copies which would be easier. Plus my brother has genuines and they light up the road in the middle of the day they're that bright hence what I'm going for lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm sure there are a few guides already out there, but feel free to stick a thread up if you get a chance. I'll be interested to read up on the install.
From what I gather it should be simple,
Parts (from harvesting)
Xenons, auto level adjuster brackets + control module and headlight washer system.
Wiring harnesses (kufatec)
Xenon,
Auto level
Headlight washer
And then it's just a matter of whacking it on, total cost estimate breakdown
Xenons £400-500
Auto level. £100-200
Headlight washer £200
Unfortunately i opted for a bcs catback exhaust instead of continuing on with the part gathering for it
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Post by: AJP on August 30, 2017, 09:53:57 pm
Well if I'm right in thinking my car came from the factory with xenons (which were then harvested at some point in its life) I've got a bit of a head start. The washers are there, and I'll check the auto adjustment bits are where they should be at some point. So really it's just the headlights and looms.Hmmm.. to be honest that's what I was expecting from this setup. I guess there's a reason the OEM kit is a few quid more. But yeah, no harm done. I have a feeling I'll be on the hunt for some OEM Xenons at some point, but there's that ever-expanding list of other sh*t at the same time!To be honest I'm near certain with this, it's the actual lense in the headlight projector that is limiting the light output, in replicas like depo they generally have a max output of 2000-3000 (forget the value) this is to that you don't require headlight washers as is the case in the EU.Great info mate, appreciate that. Definitely answered a few questions.
Therefore regardless if you have HID or halogens in them you won't get any better lighting on the road, because of the lense. An auto-electrician told me this with a previous set of xenon copies I had different car though.
The motor you heard in the headlights when you switched them on would be the headlight height adjuster, normally found on the headlight switch this just sets them both to the same height and isn't auto leveling.
Full beam beam on xenons opens the shutter on the lense to allow the full light to pass through the lense of the light. Normally on dipped beam there is a shutter have reduces this output by 50% (at least is the case for genuine xenons) as well as the halogen bulb in the reflector to help light up the upper part of the area infront instead of just the ground.
Hope this helps.
I think the best I can do is pick a bulb that emits the most suitable light (they are a bit 'blue' for me if I'm honest), make sure they're properly aligned, and then do a bit of driving to see how I find them.
Interesting what you say about the lense on aftermarket units. That would explain things to a certain extent.
When all's said and done, they were a bargain, so if I find they're not quite to my taste it's really no biggie. At the very least I'm learning a bit more and these kind of threads get the info out for the rest of the forum.
As long as you learn something new its not money wasted, it's the reason why I'm doing a full xenon retrofit instead of copies which would be easier. Plus my brother has genuines and they light up the road in the middle of the day they're that bright hence what I'm going for lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm sure there are a few guides already out there, but feel free to stick a thread up if you get a chance. I'll be interested to read up on the install.
From what I gather it should be simple,
Parts (from harvesting)
Xenons, auto level adjuster brackets + control module and headlight washer system.
Wiring harnesses (kufatec)
Xenon,
Auto level
Headlight washer
And then it's just a matter of whacking it on, total cost estimate breakdown
Xenons £400-500
Auto level. £100-200
Headlight washer £200
Unfortunately i opted for a bcs catback exhaust instead of continuing on with the part gathering for it
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I also did the BCS thing early on..
Post by: willni on August 31, 2017, 09:19:24 am
Well if I'm right in thinking my car came from the factory with xenons (which were then harvested at some point in its life) I've got a bit of a head start. The washers are there, and I'll check the auto adjustment bits are where they should be at some point. So really it's just the headlights and looms.
I also did the BCS thing early on..
Lol gotta sort the exhaust early on
, and then if that's the case it'd just go the extra distance and put the genuine ones in (don't really need auto level you can get away with it on mot) and the loom for xenons is £50 and the headlights, plus you can always sell your copies to a youth and make some profit from them Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: pudding on August 31, 2017, 09:45:51 am
Don't forget these bad boys if the lenses are poop - https://www.theretrofitsource.com/all-products/zkw-r-47812.html
Lights are boring AJP, put the money towards your wide arch conversion instead :smiley:
Post by: Ripstop on August 31, 2017, 01:42:05 pm
HID colour temperatures of 4300k emit the most light (lumens) in the visible spectrum that you see every day with your own eyes. Hence you can generally see them at night and on darker days like cloudy or rainy days. On sunny days they effectively disappear as all light is mixed and is basically daylight and you only see the bulb really and not the projected light. They are meant to be the equivalent of daylight (full visible spectrum) and hence they output the most lumens.
As you move towards the higher colour temperatures 5500k and 6000k you shift the light spectrum towards the UV end of the light scale ie more "blue" and you reduce the visible light that you could see. So although they appear bright they are not delivering the most effective amount of visible light (less lumens) and hence are not as good for general driving.
Now the real science begins... Bluer light does however have a higher energy (shorter wavelength) and can penetrate further through mediums like water or air so they appear to see farther. Its a little silly really... they have more energy but less lumens. or light power.
See this http://www.5gcamaro.com/hid-color-chart/ (http://www.5gcamaro.com/hid-color-chart/)
HID's are also more efficient at producing light than halogen and produce more lumens per watt and that's why they are brighter and use less power than halogens.
With age the efficiency of HID bulbs does decrease by 5% or 10% due to electrode and metal salt degradation (used to provide the actual light as they are ionised in the bulb) and as an example you will see a better light output from a new Xenarc night breaker than the original but they are still operating at the daylight temperature of 4350k so give maximum lumens.
In the end I will always use HID's with a colour temperature of 4300k to maybe 5500k but no more. Beware claims of xx% brighter.... 6000k bulbs are not more powerful in terms of lumens than the standard bulb. They are just shifting it to the blue end of the spectrum.
Are you all asleep now?
Cheers
Rip
Post by: pudding on August 31, 2017, 02:25:09 pm
Do you happen to know what might cause xenon bulbs to wobble over bumps? 2 x MK5s and 1 x MK4 and they've all done it. I can't be that unlucky to have 3 sets of dud lights?! :grin: The projectors are all in there solidly. Can't feel anything loose in there.
Post by: Ripstop on August 31, 2017, 02:48:47 pm
My suspicion is that it is a "wobble" introduced under certain conditions ie bumps. I also get a very minor wobble sometimes too.
Rip.
Post by: pudding on August 31, 2017, 03:00:09 pm
When I had my squidgy 16" winter tyres on last year, the wobble practically disappeared, so it must be a trade-off of stiff suspension and/or 18" tyres!
Post by: AJP on August 31, 2017, 07:32:12 pm
Post by: AJP on September 11, 2017, 11:11:17 am
I think my initial disappointment was down to the fact it was more dusk than dark - maybe the colour temperature of the bulbs makes the beam a little less obvious in those conditions.
Since then I've done a fair bit of night driving, and actually, they're pretty damn good. There's still scope for a slightly whiter bulb, but the current ones don't seem too OTT blue. I managed to find a wall in a carpark to test the beam pattern and it seems good. Nice cutoff and height - although I'd like to get that confirmed at my MOT place. I haven't had any oncoming cars flash me or anything, so I'll loosely assume things are as they should be.
Overall, I'm happy with the upgrade.
Post by: FJ1000 on September 13, 2017, 06:58:45 am
He can split headlights and reseal, change projector lenses, fit colour changing demon eyes, paint headlight internals etc etc. He's developed his own LED products too.
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Post by: FJ1000 on September 13, 2017, 07:00:39 am
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170913/0d4feaabb4947fbded5e736e31ca4628.jpg)
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Post by: AJP on September 16, 2017, 07:27:56 pm
Here's the output from my RS4 xenons after he upgraded the projector lenses to crystal clear ones he sources, and bulbs to morimoto ones:Like the look of that. Cheers for the info mate
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170913/0d4feaabb4947fbded5e736e31ca4628.jpg)
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Post by: r5gtt on September 18, 2017, 02:26:58 am
HID are s**** mate :sick:
Check my build thread on the latest bulbs I'm using and 100 times better than these poxy hid kits :happy2:
Post by: willni on September 18, 2017, 03:20:56 pm
Just thought I'd add a little update after spending a bit more time with the Depo and HID setup.
I think my initial disappointment was down to the fact it was more dusk than dark - maybe the colour temperature of the bulbs makes the beam a little less obvious in those conditions.
Since then I've done a fair bit of night driving, and actually, they're pretty damn good. There's still scope for a slightly whiter bulb, but the current ones don't seem too OTT blue. I managed to find a wall in a carpark to test the beam pattern and it seems good. Nice cutoff and height - although I'd like to get that confirmed at my MOT place. I haven't had any oncoming cars flash me or anything, so I'll loosely assume things are as they should be.
Overall, I'm happy with the upgrade.
I've heard of places that retrofit new projectors into headlights to get improved visibility etc can't remember the exact one i saw a recommendation for i think it could have been;
http://www.headlightretrofits.org.uk/service/4580758028
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Post by: AJP on September 18, 2017, 04:59:18 pm
Hi AJPI saw a bit of that, mate. LEDs aren't they? Nice to have better options down the line :)
HID are s**** mate :sick:
Check my build thread on the latest bulbs I'm using and 100 times better than these poxy hid kits :happy2:
Post by: AJP on September 18, 2017, 05:00:31 pm
Cheers mate. Along with the recommendation from FJ1000 that gives me plenty to go onJust thought I'd add a little update after spending a bit more time with the Depo and HID setup.
I think my initial disappointment was down to the fact it was more dusk than dark - maybe the colour temperature of the bulbs makes the beam a little less obvious in those conditions.
Since then I've done a fair bit of night driving, and actually, they're pretty damn good. There's still scope for a slightly whiter bulb, but the current ones don't seem too OTT blue. I managed to find a wall in a carpark to test the beam pattern and it seems good. Nice cutoff and height - although I'd like to get that confirmed at my MOT place. I haven't had any oncoming cars flash me or anything, so I'll loosely assume things are as they should be.
Overall, I'm happy with the upgrade.
I've heard of places that retrofit new projectors into headlights to get improved visibility etc can't remember the exact one i saw a recommendation for i think it could have been;
http://www.headlightretrofits.org.uk/service/4580758028
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: r5gtt on September 18, 2017, 09:02:39 pm
yeah mate led's and I found them much brighter and definitely light the way home :smiley: cheaper than the clear projector option unless you're ready to get the lights out and mess about with them.Hi AJPI saw a bit of that, mate. LEDs aren't they? Nice to have better options down the line :)
HID are s**** mate :sick:
Check my build thread on the latest bulbs I'm using and 100 times better than these poxy hid kits :happy2:
Post by: AllPraiseTheGti on October 02, 2017, 06:13:14 pm
I measured the two adjustment screws on my original halogens and set the depos to the same measurements. But one side is now lower than the other and as said beam pattern is abit all over the shop. I plan to try fiddling with the adjustments again to level them up atleast but a pain as have drop the bumper again :indifferent:
They are definitely brighter and better than when I had the gods in the standard halogen lamps but I definitely need improve the setup abit as don't want blind everyone or get pulled over for it!
Post by: r5gtt on October 03, 2017, 11:23:40 pm