MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: GreigC on July 20, 2021, 05:31:43 pm

Title: DSG Help.
Post by: GreigC on July 20, 2021, 05:31:43 pm
Hello,

My 09' MK5 75k GTI has lurching DSG (When the DSG is up to temperature)

Symtoms:

From a standstill when i accelerate the car lurches same with reverse. (like someone with bad clutch control) Sometimes the cars hesitant at down shifting from 3rd to 2nd... other gears all fine when driving. (No fault codes logged)

So after researching the issue most say the mecatronics unit is at fault... Some say clutch packs... and some say perform a DSG oil & filter change first.

So... me being a smartarse thought it was the mecatronics....I decided to take the mecatronics out. Replace bellypan seals, bolts, drain plug oil and filter. Thinking it was definitely the mecatronics.

Sent the unit to ecutesting.com who have told me its fully operational and no faults found.

So now I've emptied DSG oil fully... I understand i fill the oil back up and use VCDS to check oil temp and empty any overfill of oil via drain plug.

Has anyone been in this situation?

I am wondering all along it was old DSG oil?  to low to operate the clutch packs correctly?

I am currently waiting on my mecatronics unit coming back and I am thinking maybe when its back together with new oil etc and filled correct it was sort my issue? or am I now looking at clutch packs?

Thanks
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: bobby_fodge on July 20, 2021, 05:58:52 pm
Did you scan for any codes?
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: GreigC on July 20, 2021, 06:04:54 pm
Did you scan for any codes?

Yes, no codes.
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: Jb55 on July 20, 2021, 06:46:40 pm
Might of just needed a dsg reset/adaption
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: GreigC on July 20, 2021, 06:48:24 pm
Might of just needed a dsg reset/adaption

Forgot to mention above. I done this already. 👍
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: bobby_fodge on July 21, 2021, 09:18:57 am
Did you measure how much oil you drained? What colour was the oil when it came out?

Any evidence of previous dsg oil and filter changes?

I'd stick it back together, following the warming up procedure, and then go for a test drive. At least that would exclude the oil capacity and mechatroinics as being the culprits.

Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: GreigC on July 21, 2021, 10:39:31 am
Did you measure how much oil you drained? What colour was the oil when it came out?

Any evidence of previous dsg oil and filter changes?

I'd stick it back together, following the warming up procedure, and then go for a test drive. At least that would exclude the oil capacity and mechatroinics as being the culprits.

The oil was black no metal flakes or anything unusual. I've put the oil inside a 5 litre oil container. I'll need to look at the quantity. I'll put it back together see how it goes and post updates.
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: Andy on July 21, 2021, 02:00:18 pm
My r32 used to go to first like that and after a lot of reading up found the dsg gets its signal to change from the abs also and the valuation tolerance is not alot between each sensor
Wasn't sure if it was true or not but I found one of my rear calipers was siezed so replaced it and the dsg is spot on now
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: GreigC on July 21, 2021, 07:57:57 pm
My r32 used to go to first like that and after a lot of reading up found the dsg gets its signal to change from the abs also and the valuation tolerance is not alot between each sensor
Wasn't sure if it was true or not but I found one of my rear calipers was siezed so replaced it and the dsg is spot on now

Hey, cheers for the info 👍 I've had both rear calipers changed for refurbs with disks & pads. The car drives very well from cold... soon as the DSG warms up the issues begin.
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: GreigC on July 21, 2021, 10:47:40 pm
I have purchased 6 litres of genuine VW DSG oil. Bare in mind I've emptied the full system including what was left in the additional bellypans that seal the mecatronics unit on the side of the gearbox. Im seeing mixed reports on the quantity to refill? Whats the dry capacity of the DSG oil? If anyone knows that would be great.  :happy2:
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: GVK on July 22, 2021, 03:37:44 am
Put all of it in and it will drain out the excess on its own when running up to temp.

Hope that helps, obz save the excess......
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: GreigC on July 30, 2021, 08:59:06 am
So got the car back together last night. Brand new genuine parts - seals, o-rings, bolts, sump plug, belly pan, 6 litres of DSG oil & filter (Then emptied oil to correct level following temp at 35 degrees and emptied excess via sump) then performed adaptions via VAGCOM.

Whilst slightly better... it still jerks. I can only assume it needs clutch packs.

Anyone changed clutchpack on DSG here? If so... how much inc labour?

Thanks
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: Pudding on July 30, 2021, 09:15:29 pm
It could be the engine.  DSG faults are often misdiagnosed due to engine issues.  Although the gearbox has it's own brain, it does also communicate with the engine's brain. Remember the DSG is just an automated manual gearbox at the end of the day, so in the same way an unhappy engine can cause surging/kangarooing/lurching with manual gearboxes, same applies to DSG.

At only 75K and if it's standard, I highly doubt it's the clutch pack. If it's remapped, that can have a bearing, but even then the clutch clamping force is generally only tightened with high torque/power applications.

I would at least give the engine the once over in the first instance.  All the usual PCV, MAF, boost pipe checks etc etc.  A happy engine usually = a happy gearbox!

Oh, and how many miles have you given the gearbox to adapt post oil/mechatronics change?  VAG engines/boxes can take quite a few miles to 'relearn'.

I seem to remember someone on here years ago having similar issues, and it was caused by a faulty MAF sensor.
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: GreigC on July 31, 2021, 08:13:43 am
It could be the engine.  DSG faults are often misdiagnosed due to engine issues.  Although the gearbox has it's own brain, it does also communicate with the engine's brain. Remember the DSG is just an automated manual gearbox at the end of the day, so in the same way an unhappy engine can cause surging/kangarooing/lurching with manual gearboxes, same applies to DSG.

At only 75K and if it's standard, I highly doubt it's the clutch pack. If it's remapped, that can have a bearing, but even then the clutch clamping force is generally only tightened with high torque/power applications.

I would at least give the engine the once over in the first instance.  All the usual PCV, MAF, boost pipe checks etc etc.  A happy engine usually = a happy gearbox!

Oh, and how many miles have you given the gearbox to adapt post oil/mechatronics change?  VAG engines/boxes can take quite a few miles to 'relearn'.

I seem to remember someone on here years ago having similar issues, and it was caused by a faulty MAF sensor.

Hey, thanks for that 👍 main reason I'm sure its not the engine is because it runs no issues (from what I can tell)

My car is stock and when driving around 2nd gear + its perfect.

It's hesitant in down shifting from 3rd to 2nd at times. It's almost like its struggling to find the gear. The car lurches forward when you drive away from traffic lights in 1st but soon as it hits 2nd gear no problems.

Sometimes when driving and say I was to come to a stop and select reverse it takes a good second or two to think about the gear change and when it does and I press the acceleration pedal its violently lurches back. Also it has a very hard time reversing up my driveway (which is on an incline)
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: Andy on August 09, 2021, 01:46:21 pm
Is there a lot of movement on the engine mounts
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: r5gtt on August 11, 2021, 11:56:53 pm
Check the lower dog mount stabiliser and left hand gearbox mount as they’re common to tear/failure.
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: GreigC on August 12, 2021, 06:34:08 pm
Thanks for the info above. I've checked the engine mounts and dogbone all good there.

Its when the DSG gets up to temperature the symptoms start.
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: Pudding on August 13, 2021, 10:18:53 pm
It could be the engine.  DSG faults are often misdiagnosed due to engine issues.  Although the gearbox has it's own brain, it does also communicate with the engine's brain. Remember the DSG is just an automated manual gearbox at the end of the day, so in the same way an unhappy engine can cause surging/kangarooing/lurching with manual gearboxes, same applies to DSG.

At only 75K and if it's standard, I highly doubt it's the clutch pack. If it's remapped, that can have a bearing, but even then the clutch clamping force is generally only tightened with high torque/power applications.

I would at least give the engine the once over in the first instance.  All the usual PCV, MAF, boost pipe checks etc etc.  A happy engine usually = a happy gearbox!

Oh, and how many miles have you given the gearbox to adapt post oil/mechatronics change?  VAG engines/boxes can take quite a few miles to 'relearn'.

I seem to remember someone on here years ago having similar issues, and it was caused by a faulty MAF sensor.

Hey, thanks for that 👍 main reason I'm sure its not the engine is because it runs no issues (from what I can tell)

My car is stock and when driving around 2nd gear + its perfect.

It's hesitant in down shifting from 3rd to 2nd at times. It's almost like its struggling to find the gear. The car lurches forward when you drive away from traffic lights in 1st but soon as it hits 2nd gear no problems.

Sometimes when driving and say I was to come to a stop and select reverse it takes a good second or two to think about the gear change and when it does and I press the acceleration pedal its violently lurches back. Also it has a very hard time reversing up my driveway (which is on an incline)

Yeah I have the same struggles in reverse with my manual reversing up an incline  :grin:  The engine really doesn't like it!

It does sound like it could be the gearbox then if you're sure the engine side of things is all fine and dandy.  Whether it's the clutch pack or something more sinister, I couldn't tell you I'm afraid.

Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: GreigC on November 10, 2021, 09:52:03 pm
So today I fixed my DSG issue myself.

Fault - FORCE SOLENOID N215 & N216 in the mecatronics.

I Bought genuine borg warner valves after following this guide:

http://www.evosoft.dk/tech.html



My recommendation dont use ecutesting.com for mecatronics diagnosis...they do not test the mecatronics properly!

The guides above will help most issues related to DSG. I also got quoted £1800 ex VAT. from a recommended garage on the forums to do the work. They wanted to change the clutchpack & mecatronics unit.

I fixed this myself for £200.

Hope the helps anyone else on here.  :happy2:
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: Lewo on November 11, 2021, 08:43:43 am
 :happy2:
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: LC5F on November 11, 2021, 07:01:16 pm
I Bought genuine borg warner valves after following this guide:

Well done - Im guessing the Golf has been out of action for some time - you must be chuffed!

Where on earth do you get the valves from?
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: GreigC on November 11, 2021, 08:32:17 pm
I Bought genuine borg warner valves after following this guide:

Well done - Im guessing the Golf has been out of action for some time - you must be chuffed!

Where on earth do you get the valves from?

I was driving it everyday! I am very happy I managed to fix it myself.  :grin:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-SEAT-SKODA-DSG-6-SPEED-AUTO-GEARBOX-VARIABLE-FORCE-SOLENOID-N215-N216-/402560914398?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

You cannot buy the solenoids from TPS or VW so I found them from auto gearbox specialist on ebay. 👍
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: GreigC on November 11, 2021, 08:33:04 pm
The failed solenoids removed from mecatronics. Not knowing which one had failed i decided to replace both.

(https://i.postimg.cc/nht7VfxX/20211110-211055.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kBfDwZBC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rs31ND7j/20211110-211113.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2LdLzSkL)
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: LC5F on November 11, 2021, 08:46:17 pm
Wow  - Great information you have gathered - @andy - potential sticky?

Just in case the listing disappears:

Manufaturer:
Borg Warner

Manufaturers PN:   
26500032KA

Listing title:
GENUINE SEAT SKODA DSG 6 SPEED AUTO GEARBOX VARIABLE FORCE SOLENOID N215 N216

Listing description:
"GENUINE VW AUDI SEAT SKODA  DSG 6 SPEED AUTOMATIC GEARBOX VARIABLE FORCE SOLENOID N215 N216 VSF  DCT  26500032KA

SUITABLE FOR DSG 6 SPEED WET CLUTCH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION"

Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: Pudding on November 13, 2021, 12:28:41 pm
Great work  :happy2:

It's not easy narrowing down DSG issues with no fault codes to at least point you in the right direction, so well done  :congrats:
Title: Re: DSG Help.
Post by: Juliand on November 15, 2021, 10:19:57 pm
See Pudding post... He's a bright boy, and very knowledgeable / skilled  on almost everything.. Big respect....  and extremely helpful on most posts