MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: tony_danza on April 03, 2009, 10:31:49 am
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I had the pleasure of having a 3†Milltek downpipe mated onto my existing non-resonated cat-back and Revo Stage2 put on my car on Monday, now it has settled in, I thought I’d share my views.
The work, as usual was expertly done by Votex in Congleton, Cheshire. A superb VAG specialist and Revo dealer, who look after all my cars. As they run several race & track cars themselves (having a motorsport background) and as I do so many track days, we’d been talking about the next step for improving my car and looking into achieving what I wanted, which was faster spool up and quicker/better power delivery. The downpipe and stage2 were the ideal answer.
I’ve already fully uprated my suspension and brakes, so power was the last piece of the puzzle.
So, the meaty bit…
I went to collect the car from Mike. He’d had it all day, as along with the DP fitting, he wanted to ensure everything was running perfectly, it was given a full going over with his expert eye and VAG-COM. A full scan and also taken out for a drive to do some data logging on several functions like the MAF, boost pressure etc. the usual suspects that can go a bit faulty without throwing a code and then become more apparent once mapped. Given a clean bill of health, stage 2 was applied with the ‘middle of the road’ for my mods 6/9/6 boost/fuel/timing settings via the SPS switch.
Ever the understated, he just said “I think you’ll be pleased with that†and let me on my way. Driving home was a good test of its normal workload, crawling through traffic in town and cruising for 8 miles down B-roads… I made my way home without fuss in ‘D’, smooth as silk and a slight improvement on the MPG – extra torque and clever DSG knowing the most economical gear to be in = less revving, using up fuel. The downpipe providing a touch more of a bass note, but certainly not intrusive. Happy so far.
Later that evening, time for a run out, time to hit the back roads. I wanted the car to deliver on corner exit, those all important 2nd & 3rd gear ones we use on the track and in the real world. Low gear punch is key, we don’t have Autobahns, top speed is of no use or interest to me…. ****! Does it deliver!!
The car is savage; it’s as mad as a pensioner’s terrier and just wants to go. It spools nigh on instantly, surging forward with seemingly linear power and torque in copious amounts, right through to the red line, where that all important DSG gear-change comes in. RAPID. no lag, no jerk, no messing about, you click the paddle up or down and its got it. I’d heard in the early days of mapping DSGs there was some issues with the way maps were affecting the change – no evidence of it here, its factory, only better. I’d thought it’d feel a bit out of breath towards the 2/3 of the range and I’d be looking at uprated fuel pumps.. I don’t know if I’ll even bother now.
The software, even in generic stage2 format is very, very refined. You can tell by the way the car delivers power that a lot of time and testing has gone into it. The main thing is no stupid big wave of torque in one lump, sure it makes the car feel faster, but it’s useless for getting power down when you need it in the lower gears. This was my only concern and I had planned on maybe getting a tweak done to tailor it to my requirements, again, no need to bother.
In conclusion, upgrading to stage2 whilst not giving the same increase in figures over stock like stage1 does, it gives a quantum leap in terms of the way it delivers that power. It could only be a handful or extra ponies and torques for all I care, it isn't, it's loads.... The car is transformed, free, unrestricted… dare I say a little bit scary?
I might get it dyno'd at some point, but I'm just too busy enjoying it to be bothered about figures.. it was 245/280 last time out, all I know is its much more.
So, read that again, but this time do it whilst humming the theme tune from Rocky, get yourself a DP and Revo stage2 that car…
Danza seal of approval :happy2:
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Nice review. :happy2:
Why did you go for the 3" DP as I'm pretty sure Milltek normally supplies a 2.75" one for the standard K03 GTi.
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Mike said he was impressed with Top Cat's car, he's got a 3" DP, albiet a Blueflame one. So I went down the same route.
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I hate you MR Danza, I have been quite happy pootiling along with my map and Zorst. and pot of tea light in my dash :rolleye:
I need brakes before this mod you foooooker. :signLOL:
Great little write up. :party: :drinking:
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great write up although im now wanting to spend yet more money on the car......... :fighting: :fighting:
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Good write-up.
I went straight into Revo stage 2 with the APR 3" TBE. However, my power delivery is not the same as you describe...mine comes in one huge lump very early in the rev range, and after 5K the car is really really breathless! Hence why I have severe traction issues even in the dry :grin: :grin: :grin:
My Revo settings are the same as yours also.
Interesting....
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Hmmm - that is weird, we need TC to stage2 his for a better idea, but I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on mid-top end with his DP and Revo version??
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I have found mine quite difficult to find the correct pedal feel or touch, sometimes in second i only have to give the loud pedal about quarter of a press and it just connects perfect, it is that smooth and fast it feels like a electric car apart from the sound. this happens when i am not meaning to push on just meaning to give it a bit of beans. :chicken:
Other times if i am in the mood i can try and go for it and the TC light comes on everywhere in second and third. :confused:
Basically i just need to learn to drive a bit better. I think its a bit like V-tec at the pod, he can consistently get better times, this to me means he can feel all the moving parts around him much more than your average Joe and is able to adjust accordingly.
But anyway i digress. I got the Zorst about a week before the map, and i know people say it's down to the placebo effect, but i am 100% sure that there was a lot more mid range grunt from about 1800 rpm to 4000 then when the map was installed it was there right throughout the range. It maybe dies off a bit above 5000 RPM but only in 4th and 5th and to be honest if you look at the speed counter when your at 5000 revs in fourth then you will realize, that unless your on a track somewhere that would not be needed any hows.
I am in a waffling mood today. Sorry guys. :ashamed: :fighting2:
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Maybe it's my car, maybe I've tuned my foot differently, coming from a near 200bhp diesel with a wall of torque and no rev range??
Ask Revo to change the throttle mapping, easily done.
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Maybe it's my car, maybe I've tuned my foot differently, coming from a near 200bhp diesel with a wall of torque and no rev range??
Ask Revo to change the throttle mapping, easily done.
I may look into this actually :smiley: :smiley:
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kept that map quiet TC :happy2: :driver:
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I'm also full Milltek TBE Non-Res with Revo2 on K03 and feel no need for an aftermarket fuel pump. I think my downpipe is 2.75 though - Not sure because my exhaust components do occasionally get changed by Milltek - Something new coming in the next few weeks :wink:
Are you running a K03 or K04 car, 'Tony'?
The power delivery is very smooth all the way through with initial grunt at a bit under 2k revs when the turbo kicks in, but I hardly ever get wheelspin and if the TC light does flicker it's instantly pounced on by the Quaife, though right foot training plays a part.
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K03, I've got the 'Diet' GTI.... they're better than K04's anyways :P
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Sounds great mate.
Just wanted to add praise for Votex in Congleton. I have to drive 50 miles to get there but they are absolutely brilliant, the only place i feel comfortable with leaving my car. They are experts who absolutely love VAG cars, and as a bonus are significantly cheaper than VW prices. My 40k, 4 years service is over £100 cheaper there and I'll be there in a couple of weeks to happily spend with them:happy2:
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I've got a 2.75 TB and Revo st 2 (K03) and also find my delivery pretty smooth. Definitely smoother than stage 1.
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Update,
Well it's certainly working - took .95 of a second out of my time at Curborough on Saturday posting a 30.18 on road tyres with the back stripped out. 5th place over all and fastest MKV currently on the C-GTI's historic table.
If I'd bothered with the R888s and putting the ARBs on hard, I may have been in the medals?!
To put that into some sort of comparison, I was less than a second behind a 460BHP (+NOS) stripped A3 quattro and some 200BHP 800kg MKI GTIs with LSDs and on sticky tyres. Fastest was a big turbo'd 16v MKII (VW Motorsport lightened shell) again with an LSD and stickys by just over a second.
To say I'm proud of that would be an understatement. :smiley:
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^^^^^^^^ Very impressive :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
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:ashamed: When I say proud, I mean of the car - certainly shows what the MKV chassis/engine is capable of - I'm just an amature swerver :driver:
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^^^^
I'd have some pride in your driving too! It's a car and driver partnership.
Well Done! :drinking:
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I had my car in for service to day at Votex thought it would be rude to ignore the opportunity to go stage 2 :evilgrin:
I have to say i didn't think it was going to be a noticeable difference, but i am glad to report i was wrong it feels a lot quicker throughout the range. :innocent:
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and has you CEL gone?
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I had my car in for service to day at Votex thought it would be rude to ignore the opportunity to go stage 2 :evilgrin:
I have to say i didn't think it was going to be a noticeable difference, but i am glad to report i was wrong it feels a lot quicker throughout the range. :innocent:
you need a new ic now :party: :driver:
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I did wonder how you were running a 3" DP and not getting CELs on stage 1...
Glad you like it, I fapping LOVE it!!
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and has you CEL gone?
Yep i think so, its not back on yet any hows. :wink:
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nice one matey :happy2:
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I bet you're glad you got those Recaros, TC! :smiley:
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I spent the day yesterday on my favorite roads in Wales, about 5 hours in total and have to say how pleased i am with the Revo stage 2. I am so pleased with it on all fronts, i get less wheel spin now and the TC light only flickers a little bit when you really floor it in second. Apart from that it seems to deliver the power much more progressively, and is so smooth. :smiley:
with this and the zorst, i really cant help pushing on at every opportunity. :rolleye:
Best 50 pound i have spent so far on the car. :jumpmove:
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I spent the day yesterday on my favorite roads in Wales, about 5 hours in total and have to say how pleased i am with the Revo stage 2. I am so pleased with it on all fronts, i get less wheel spin now and the TC light only flickers a little bit when you really floor it in second. Apart from that it seems to deliver the power much more progressively, and is so smooth. :smiley:
with this and the zorst, i really cant help pushing on at every opportunity. :rolleye:
Best 50 pound i have spent so far on the car. :jumpmove:
!?!!!!!!!!!! What are you're Revo settings? My Stage 2 has completely different characteristics to that..................
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I spent the day yesterday on my favorite roads in Wales, about 5 hours in total and have to say how pleased i am with the Revo stage 2. I am so pleased with it on all fronts, i get less wheel spin now and the TC light only flickers a little bit when you really floor it in second. Apart from that it seems to deliver the power much more progressively, and is so smooth. :smiley:
with this and the zorst, i really cant help pushing on at every opportunity. :rolleye:
Best 50 pound i have spent so far on the car. :jumpmove:
!?!!!!!!!!!! What are you're Revo settings? My Stage 2 has completely different characteristics to that..................
Hmm i forgot to ask this time, as we were both in a rush, My Lambda censor cable was all twisted and he very kindly spent 10 minutes extra dropping the under tray down so he could un-plug and straighten the cable. :smiley:
But i am 90 % sure the settings will be how they come out of the box.
Stage one for me was a bit to full on in second and third but stage two has really improved the delivery. :driver:
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I spent the day yesterday on my favorite roads in Wales, about 5 hours in total and have to say how pleased i am with the Revo stage 2. I am so pleased with it on all fronts, i get less wheel spin now and the TC light only flickers a little bit when you really floor it in second. Apart from that it seems to deliver the power much more progressively, and is so smooth. :smiley:
with this and the zorst, i really cant help pushing on at every opportunity. :rolleye:
Best 50 pound i have spent so far on the car. :jumpmove:
!?!!!!!!!!!! What are you're Revo settings? My Stage 2 has completely different characteristics to that..................
Hmm i forgot to ask this time, as we were both in a rush, My Lambda censor cable was all twisted and he very kindly spent 10 minutes extra dropping the under tray down so he could un-plug and straighten the cable. :smiley:
But i am 90 % sure the settings will be how they come out of the box.
Stage one for me was a bit to full on in second and third but stage two has really improved the delivery. :driver:
I'd be interested to know at some point TC! There's little point in having traction control on in my car, it is literally on every second. My boost just comes in in one big chunk. I heard that stage two was a much smoother/more progressive map than stage 1, and it was one of the major contributors to my decision to go straight to stage 2. I hate to think what stage 1 would have been like!
Saying that, the lack of progresiveness makes it rather exhilirating and exciting when you floor it in mine :grin: :grin:
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WhiteGTI, it does seem as if you're suffering top end compated to us?
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If you make it to the SC meet, then you can have a go in mine to compare :drinking:
I am addicted to the sound of the DSG gear changes with mine, if i take it up to 5000 RPM then change up the sound is amazing. Just talkng about it now makes me want to go and have a go :party: :jumping:
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Chris, my Revo Stage2 is smoother than Stage1 was too. The difference is only fairly subtle but it is less inclined to light up the TC (Traction Control, not Top Cat).
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Hmmmmmmmmmmm I may have to get things checked out. Its been like this from day one, and is running good power too.
@ Tony - top end seems normal really, it pulls hard up until about 5500 where things start to die a bit, it did the same at stock, so i assume it is the characteristic of the K03! Power/torque curves are also perfect. I'll have a chat with JKM at some point and see what they think!
@ TC - I remember when I first drove a MK2 TT with DSG (the first time I had driven DSG), and that popping was so addictive. When i was at Silverstone this weekend seeing the FIA GT cars race, they were all banging on the upshift! Really made me want a DSG!
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I don't think you've a problem with the car - maybe just a different characteristic of your DP, as that's the common difference? We're all just running an uprated filter, is that right?
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^ Good point... Yep the only other engine mods (aside from the RSC exhaust) are the Forge DV and the Carbonio with a Pipercross filter.