MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Panthera on September 06, 2015, 04:40:10 pm
-
I have had my car for just over 3 1/2 years (the longest I have owned a car) and I have kept it standard thus far. I have been using a specialist for service work and when they said that my rear suspension was sagging on one side after having a 4 wheel alignment. Everything else was fine. I asked what my options where, full OE, part OE and part upgrade or full upgrade. As it was not urgent, I let it be. So last month I said to the specialist lets book it in for the upgrade suspension kit - Bilstein B12 Pro.
I have done about 700 miles since being fitted so the suspension has settled more or less.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/669/20546856693_09faa0fbe3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xiE1DT)P1020284e (https://flic.kr/p/xiE1DT) by Darren Hughes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/djmhughesuk/), on Flickr
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5685/20546866803_801b97256b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xiE4Ec)P1020283e (https://flic.kr/p/xiE4Ec) by Darren Hughes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/djmhughesuk/), on Flickr
However, it has softened up somewhat since day one, but my daily commute to work uses fast B roads and they are not smooth, and the ride is firm, like I am having a few rounds with Mike Tyson (not that I box). Yes it does handle better - it hardly pitches or dives under acceleration or braking, - but i think it would be better suited to a longer chassis car - Audi A4 - and I don't think it fully suits the Golf platform personally. I am half tempted to but a OE set on.
-
A thumbs down then?
Always a tricky one finding a setup that's balanced nicely between performance and ride quality, as it's so subjective.
What one person finds comfortable the next finds harsh.
I'm on OEM shocks and H&R 30mm springs and I don't find it more uncomfortable than with standard springs. That said, it was quite firm totally standard anyway in comparison to say a standard mk4 GTI.
I don't think there's a Holy Grail that nails that balance, just a case of trial and error. I've had cars that rode worse on sensibly dropped spring and shock kits than on coilovers 80mm down. Go figure!
-
Try Eibach Pro-Kit springs, that don't really drop the ride but are more comfortable and have a bit less roll than stock, with Koni FSD shocks. This combo should suit more your needs. :happy2:
-
I ran my mk5 on VWR springs & OEM dampers for a couple of years. The springs took out a bit of roll, and then adding ARB's helped further.
The ride was ok, but noticed over time it got really hard, with no damping effect, and there was wandering - all signs of knackered dampers.
As said - suspension is so subjective, but I wanted a set of Bilstein B8's. Too hard for some, and the mk5 vs mk6 debate is just :rolleye:. I had a set of Bilsteins after a set of Koni FSD's on my old mkiv, and the Bilsteins were so much better.
Maybe replacing OEM dampers every so many years might be the way forward for you, but for me the Bilsteins do seem harder than OEM, but better damped and controlled.
-
I have Pro-Kits and Koni FSD (Kit 2100-4001) on my GT Sport and I find the ride quite comfortable for a sport suspension. If anyone finds this combo harsh I think they better forget about owning any sport car. It's much better than stock and I replaced the suspension before my original shocks were dead.
-
The ride does not crash at the rear like the OE set-up did, but then if they where past their best - car is on 78k miles - that might have had something to do with it. I can't recall what it felt like when I first got the car with some 43k on the clock.
Shoduchi: My belief is that the B12 pro kit consists of - B8 dampers with Eibach 30 mm lowering springs. So what would the Eibach pro kit springs being to the table?
According to the specialist, he said that Koni changed the damping characteristics in the FSD and made them worse?? thats another story.
-
What colour are the Eibach -30 mm? If they're red, they're Sportlines, if they're black, they're Pro-Kits.
-30 mm for GTI suspension, which is -20 mm compared to normal, is relative to Sportlines.
Pro-Kits are -5 or at best -10 mm compared to a GTI suspension. -30/35 mm compared to normal. That's the reason why it can be confusing.
Koni made a new FSD kit just for GTI because clients complained that it was too compliant. So, if you get the Koni FSD for GTI, you'll problably won't like their comfort either...
-
Looking at the pictures of your GTI it seems you have Sportlines fitted, not Pro-Kits.
-
What colour are the Eibach -30 mm? If they're red, they're Sportlines, if they're black, they're Pro-Kits.
-30 mm for GTI suspension, which is -20 mm compared to normal, is relative to Sportlines.
Pro-Kits are -5 or at best -10 mm compared to a GTI suspension. -30/35 mm compared to normal. That's the reason why it can be confusing.
Koni made a new FSD kit just for GTI because clients complained that it was too compliant. So, if you get the Koni FSD for GTI, you'll problably won't like their comfort either...
he springs are red fyi.
I read on the Bilstein website that the pro kit - that I have - drops the front my 20mm and the rear 20-25mm
-
If your springs are red you have Sportlines, not Pro-Kits. Pro-Kits are black and don't really lower a GTI.
Just look at my GT Sport pictures (with Pro-Kits fitted) and then look at the 1st pictures of my Ed. 30 (with Sportlines fitted).
In the last pictures of my Ed. 30 it has H&R -30 mm fitted, that are pretty similar to the Sportlines, just a bit more leveled. Sportlines make the front a bit lower compared to the back.
-
I thought I would up-date you all further. I have done a lot more miles since this thread was created, and I can say that the ride has suppled up much more and is more comfortable. Okay, it is still firm, but less so than before. Also she handles a lot better now that, where I work - sell Hunter Engineering Equipment - it has been aligned properly on Hunter TD Elite aligner.
-
Nice colour GTI!
I've used Bilsteins a few times over the years on my VWs and always found their high speed bump settings to be too harsh for UK roads. They are consistent though, probably the most consistent dampers I've ever used. Lesser dampers (like KWs) feel different over and summer and winter as the damper oil viscosity changes. Bilstein take steps to reduce that issue.
Kind of got my eye on Ohlins Track & Road at the moment because of their secondary valving system to reduce harshness, and also their clever ride height adjustment mechanism which doesn't change the spring preload.
-
Yours seems like you have a bit of rake going on. Mine (in the photos at least) appears to be a little more level. I'm running a B12 Pro Kit with Eibach springs (red) and I reckon it's about 10/15mm lower.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi326.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk438%2Fflashp%2FP1020984_zpslvnyno9v.jpg&hash=b0a985497d60a25e4146f65da4c999e3121b3fd4)
-
Yours seems like you have a bit of rake going on. Mine (in the photos at least) appears to be a little more level. I'm running a B12 Pro Kit with Eibach springs (red) and I reckon it's about 10/15mm lower.
The red Eibach springs are Sportlines, Pro-Kits are black. From your picture your car is lower than what Pro-Kits lower. :wink:
http://www.bilstein.de/en-uk/products/sport-and-threaded-ride-high-adjustable-kits/bilstein-b12-sportline/ (http://www.bilstein.de/en-uk/products/sport-and-threaded-ride-high-adjustable-kits/bilstein-b12-sportline/)
Mine with Pro-Kits:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fmm475%2FShoduchi%2FOZ_Ultraleggera_10.jpg&hash=29079101f192d456d7e74c908437f715ca98f687)
-
I remember when JKM supplied mine Bilstein changed the spec of the springs shortly afterwards. It was a pro kit fitted though. I have red Eibach progressive springs.
-
You can call it Sportline because that's what you have. :wink:
BILSTEIN B12 Pro-Kit
http://www.bilstein.de/en-uk/products/sport-and-threaded-ride-high-adjustable-kits/bilstein-b12-pro-kit/ (http://www.bilstein.de/en-uk/products/sport-and-threaded-ride-high-adjustable-kits/bilstein-b12-pro-kit/)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bilstein.de%2Ftypo3temp%2Fpics%2F20d304f6f7.jpg&hash=1aa6400e7a7ec675925e7f058c60bbbb8a7a04c3)
BILSTEIN B12 Sportline
http://www.bilstein.de/en-uk/products/sport-and-threaded-ride-high-adjustable-kits/bilstein-b12-sportline/ (http://www.bilstein.de/en-uk/products/sport-and-threaded-ride-high-adjustable-kits/bilstein-b12-sportline/)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bilstein.de%2Ftypo3temp%2Fpics%2F11afd950b0.jpg&hash=e09f20dddab667509b15f6e698e982013cd68394)
-
I really don't have a Sportline kit.
Have a look here:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,80062.msg831878.html#msg831878 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,80062.msg831878.html#msg831878)
See photo of John_o's car. He has the same kit and drop as me. Bilstein changed the spring spec that was originally supplied.
I'll grant you that it looks more like the current Sportline kit but they weren't.
-
I am not sure why there is that much rake - the front sits lower than the rears. Since, those pictures where taken I have had the front wishbone bushes changed - Powerflex.
These are the actual shots of the suspension kit that i have fitted..... B12 Sportlines
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/633/22577839069_54c7c01ba2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ap8jXp)Bilstein 2 (https://flic.kr/p/Ap8jXp) by Darren Hughes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/djmhughesuk/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/624/22970004785_49fa4fd9ab_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AZMhag)Billetin 1 (https://flic.kr/p/AZMhag) by Darren Hughes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/djmhughesuk/), on Flickr
-
Just thought I would update you all on how I was getting on with the Bilstein B12 Sportline after a further month and a half of driving. They have settled in nicely and the ride is more supple and compliment over the bumps, but still firm and feels pretty good- read that as - liking it! The only thing I don't really like is the rake the car is standing at - front sits lower than the rears. I would presume that the only option is different springs, VWR, H&R as the Eibach Pro-Kits springs are not available anymore??
-
Eibach springs are like that, that's why I changed from Sportlines to H&R -30 mm. Pro-Kits have the same rake.
-
Just thought that i may chuck a spanner in the works as weren't the blisteins once sold with H&R and then dropped to be used with eibach springs? Must have been some reason behind this surely? So just wondered why anyone would swap out the Eibach springs for H&R just for the sake of appearance...Would swapping from Eibach to H&R not have any other effects in terms of ride stiffness etc etc?..
Not sure if i'm right or wrong with this statement but i was certain from memory that i have read this elsewhere.. Someone may be able to correct or confirm this?...
"weren't the blisteins once sold with H&R and then dropped to be used with eibach springs?"
-
I know that the Bilstein B8 with the Eibach springs (=B12 kit) have been engineered to work together, so if by changing the springs to H&R or other, would one notice any difference as Carl has mentioned in ride?
Just researching/reading on Audi-Sport.net about Bilstein Dampers (B8) and springs. The most popular combo is B8's with H&R sport springs, but for what I can tell they also have a rake much like the Eibach. But I have had a look on H&R web site and there is more than one option on sport springs??
On a side note, The paint on the Bilstein B8's is it supposed to be matt/satin yellow paint finish or more glossy yellow?
-
Just thought that i may chuck a spanner in the works as weren't the blisteins once sold with H&R and then dropped to be used with eibach springs? Must have been some reason behind this surely? So just wondered why anyone would swap out the Eibach springs for H&R just for the sake of appearance...Would swapping from Eibach to H&R not have any other effects in terms of ride stiffness etc etc?..
Not sure if i'm right or wrong with this statement but i was certain from memory that i have read this elsewhere.. Someone may be able to correct or confirm this?...
"weren't the blisteins once sold with H&R and then dropped to be used with eibach springs?"
I don't know what used to be, at the moment Koni sells kits with H&R springs and Bilstein sells with Eibach springs. I have Koni Sports dampers, H&R springs and sway bars. The handling and comfort of my ride improved a lot coming from still like new OEM dampers, Eibach Sportlines and OEM sway bars. That's my personal experience. :smiley:
H&R only makes 1 version for GTI, which is blue. For lesser petrol versions and other diesel there are black springs similar to Eibach Pro-Kits and red springs similar to GTI blue version and Eibach Sportlines. That's in Europe. You can order from the USA other versions.
-
Just for info. I had a B12 kit on my Ed30. First with H&R Springs then the Red Eibachs...as I was trying to soften the ride and gain some compliance over bumps/rougher surfaces.
Neither worked and don't think i'd ever use Bilstein again..personally think they are designed for smoother roads than here in the UK. It had too much vertical bounce and jarring for this 40 something..But that might be my age.
Took all that off and bought Ohlins R&T which are sublime.
But that said they are in a different stratosphere in terms of pricing..so whilst it was a slight punt into the unknown it seems to have worked.
And as I've mentioned elsewhere on here it was cheaper buying Ohlins that a new Mk7 R, as was pretty fed up with the rock hard Bilstein set up..so by default was fed up with the car..for just that one issue.
That said everyone is different and one man's 'too harsh' is 'nice and comfy' to others.
But knowing what I know now..there is only one suspension set that combines handling with ride quality..due to dual valved dampers I think.
-
Just for info. I had a B12 kit on my Ed30. First with H&R Springs then the Red Eibachs...as I was trying to soften the ride and gain some compliance over bumps/rougher surfaces.
Neither worked and don't think i'd ever use Bilstein again..personally think they are designed for smoother roads than here in the UK. It had too much vertical bounce and jarring for this 40 something..But that might be my age.
Took all that off and bought Ohlins R&T which are sublime.
But that said they are in a different stratosphere in terms of pricing..so whilst it was a slight punt into the unknown it seems to have worked.
And as I've mentioned elsewhere on here it was cheaper buying Ohlins that a new Mk7 R, as was pretty fed up with the rock hard Bilstein set up..so by default was fed up with the car..for just that one issue.
That said everyone is different and one man's 'too harsh' is 'nice and comfy' to others.
But knowing what I know now..there is only one suspension set that combines handling with ride quality..due to dual valved dampers I think.
I wouldn't mind having Öhlins in my car too. :drool:
-
My previous two cars had Ohlins/Monroe CEX system (aka Continuously Controlled Chassis Concept (4C)) on Volvo S60R's and they are outstanding - at the touch of a button I could go from confront to 'track' stiffness at the touch of a button. I know the Ohlins Road and Track don't have this exact feature, just a dial on each strut to adjust the stiffness, they are the best made suspension fun the world - market leaders along with Monroe.
I too would love to have a set on my car, but they are slightly out of most peoples price range