MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: candy turbo on December 22, 2009, 06:43:36 pm

Title: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: candy turbo on December 22, 2009, 06:43:36 pm
i ve been reading on a lesser forum to this one about guys having problems when they ve fitted the milltek down pipe and cat with the idle being very lumpy !! it seems the only way to cure this is to re map . any one on here experienced this ?????? :santa:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: Hedge on December 22, 2009, 06:51:10 pm
Ran my Ed 30 for seceral weeks on the standard map with a TBE.

No problems whatsoever.  :smiley:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: candy turbo on December 22, 2009, 06:54:55 pm
i am planning on a re map but wanted to wait a while after fitting rest of the milly  :happy2:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: animal on December 22, 2009, 07:03:32 pm
Ran my Ed 30 for seceral weeks on the standard map with a TBE.

No problems whatsoever.  :smiley:

Sorry to thread jack but was there any noticeable improvement to the way the car performed with a TBE on the standard map? It's highly likely I'll be going a similar route.
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: candy turbo on December 22, 2009, 07:07:22 pm
apparently there is a sensor on the oem downpipe /cat that is nt on the milltek , has  any one fitted one them selves to see this ?
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: Hedge on December 22, 2009, 07:28:47 pm
Sorry to thread jack but was there any noticeable improvement to the way the car performed with a TBE on the standard map? It's highly likely I'll be going a similar route.

Probably a little but the car had been mapped before so I couldn't really tell.  :ashamed:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: Oli on December 22, 2009, 07:51:43 pm
apparently there is a sensor on the oem downpipe /cat that is nt on the milltek , has  any one fitted one them selves to see this ?

The only sensor in the downpipe/CAT is the O2 sensor, which swaps straight over, or did on my 08 model year S3.  You just cant swap it back as it welds itself into the SS exhaust.  

Ref the original question, I have heard this(but not sure where from), but Ive always mapped first, before exhausts anyway.  Give Charlie at Milltek at call, he is very helpful and certainly answer your question.
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: bacillus on December 22, 2009, 08:32:07 pm
You get little performance increase with a dp on a standard car. That being said, iirc RR ran a full tbe on his car for quite a while without any issues.
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: KRL on December 22, 2009, 10:43:45 pm
The O2 sensor will likely throw a CEL with the standard map and stage 1 map if you have a DP fitted which will cause the car to go into limp mode.  This is because the o2 sensor will think there is a problem with the exhaust as it will be flowing much more exhaust gas than the OEM due to the larger diameter size and the sports cat.

Stage 2 maps from REVO and APR etc stop this CEL from being generated.  Happy days.
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: Top Cat on December 22, 2009, 10:51:55 pm
Hedge fitted his and got no cel. On the GTI most of the ones that i have come across including my own brought the cel light on but the car never went into limp mode.  :happy2:

Also Ian, with mine their was a noticable improvement just with the zorst. A bit more power for sure. It felt like mine had a blocked nose then with the zorst all was breathing freely.  :happy2:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: matsu on December 23, 2009, 11:50:08 am
would any of this apply when i change my standar to an r32 rear with blueflame zorst-it has been mapped already??
fanx :ashamed:
matsu
oh sorry if this changes thread direction!
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: revo carl on December 23, 2009, 11:50:23 am
this all depends on what CAT you're running, a 200cell CAT will not throw a CEL

a 100cell or a de-cat will throw a CEL.

99% of the systems on the market with a "sports CAT" will be fitted with a 200cell cat unless specified!


Hope this helps!
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: revo carl on December 23, 2009, 11:52:30 am
would any of this apply when i change my standar to an r32 rear with blueflame zorst-it has been mapped already??
fanx :ashamed:
matsu
oh sorry if this changes thread direction!

again as i posted above.... depends on what CAT you run, also depends on which level of software you're running... for example all our stage2 software fixes CEL's caused by high flow exhaust systems!
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: Janner_Sy on December 23, 2009, 12:01:28 pm
this all depends on what CAT you're running, a 200cell CAT will not throw a CEL

mine did?
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: revo carl on December 23, 2009, 12:11:17 pm
might have been a very free flowing 200cell on yours then.....?
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: Hedge on December 23, 2009, 12:49:03 pm
I'm guessing Milltek use 200 cel cats then.  :smiley:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: NB07 on December 23, 2009, 01:13:22 pm
yeh the Blueflame is a 100 cell cat so would deffo light up the dash. Im curious if running stage 1 with a miltek 200 cell,  would you get a lot more horses going to stage 2 software? 
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: animal on December 23, 2009, 01:14:45 pm
Will the 100 cell pass an MoT and therefore be worth the money? 100 cell is a race cat IIRC?
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: Aparoon on December 23, 2009, 01:25:08 pm
I was told that it would pass but don't know for sure
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: KRL on December 23, 2009, 01:27:37 pm
Info about the BF cat here:
http://www.blueflameperformance.com/cats.php

They say it conforms with emissions standards.
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: candy turbo on December 23, 2009, 05:26:10 pm
this all depends on what CAT you're running, a 200cell CAT will not throw a CEL

a 100cell or a de-cat will throw a CEL.

99% of the systems on the market with a "sports CAT" will be fitted with a 200cell cat unless specified!


Hope this helps!
I WONT BE GOING  any more than stage 1 so am i best not fitting the down pipe and cat ?
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: Janner_Sy on December 23, 2009, 05:33:12 pm
if thats the case id go for an induction kit and stage 1 then IMO
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: candy turbo on December 23, 2009, 05:42:42 pm
but surely its not worth getting the induction kit either ? my ed 30 with custom code was brilliant apart from traction on damp roads so stage 1 on the S3 will be plenty for me  :smiley:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: Aparoon on December 23, 2009, 06:59:44 pm
Seems a bit pointless getting the dp but not stage 2, why are you thinking of buying it if you dont want any more power?

When I had my dp and sports cat fitted I drove home on a stage 1 map and could feel the difference for sure  :happy2:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: candy turbo on December 23, 2009, 08:19:14 pm
not really it will let the engine breath better for sure , dont want to go any further than stage 1 cause , 1 ; plenty of power for me , custom code is a great stage 1 map and un like the ed30 it will be useable in the S3  , 2: i want to keep my clutch !!!!
i m not a figures type (bhp) i know when a car feels right and imo CC stage 1 power delivery in the 2.0 tfsi is brilliant , ive been in stage 2 + cars and they may just have an edge but nothing to write home about  :tree:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: KRL on December 23, 2009, 08:33:11 pm
but surely its not worth getting the induction kit either ? my ed 30 with custom code was brilliant apart from traction on damp roads so stage 1 on the S3 will be plenty for me  :smiley:

An induction kit will still give you gains even at stage 1.  I fitted my CAI at stage 1 and driving wise I can feel a noticable difference in the top end.  From logging I can see that it has given me gains throughout the rev range  :happy2:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: KRL on December 23, 2009, 08:48:54 pm
not really it will let the engine breath better for sure , dont want to go any further than stage 1 cause , 1 ; plenty of power for me , custom code is a great stage 1 map and un like the ed30 it will be useable in the S3  , 2: i want to keep my clutch !!!!
i m not a figures type (bhp) i know when a car feels right and imo CC stage 1 power delivery in the 2.0 tfsi is brilliant , ive been in stage 2 + cars and they may just have an edge but nothing to write home about  :tree:

The thing is I do not think stage 2 would be any harder on your clutch, in fact it may be a little easier on it  :grin:

Let me explain -
Torque is what kills clutches and the time a clutch will be under the most strain is when you go WOT in a high gear at low revs.  The standard exhaust creates more back pressure on the turbo than an upgraded 3" exhaust.  This extra back pressure means the engine will actually make more torque at lower revs than an upgraded exhaust.  An upgraded exhaust will make better top end power and at this point the clutch will not be under so much strain.

Stage 2+ is a different ball game however as the uprated HPFP allows much better mid range torqe due to their being no fuel delivery limitations.

My advice would be that if you want a DP then get stage 2 as well.  Anybody with a remapped car should try to hold back from flooring it in 4/5/6th gear at  low revs in order to preserve the clutch.
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on December 23, 2009, 09:10:59 pm
Very useful info about the downpipe... Mine is on order... how much power gain will I get if I was to go for the HPFP as well...
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: Aparoon on December 23, 2009, 09:13:40 pm
You have to pay full wack to go stage 2 with custom code don't you? Another thing to bear in mind...
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: KRL on December 23, 2009, 09:32:30 pm
Very useful info about the downpipe... Mine is on order... how much power gain will I get if I was to go for the HPFP as well...

Peak figures wise you would probably gain no more then 10bhp and 10 torques.  The gains come in the midrange where they will be up by around 30 bhp and 30 torques  :happy2:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: candy turbo on December 23, 2009, 09:38:16 pm
all i want to know really is if i fit the milly down pipe &cat will it bring fault lights on the dash and / or upset the idle ? i ll contact milltek in the new year to see what they have to say
 it does state on there web site that its designed to go on standard car  :smiley:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: Toast on December 23, 2009, 09:41:32 pm
Shouldn't be a problem mate  :happy2:  I've been runing my ED30 with my giac map switched off for a bit and it does throw any lights on  :smiley:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: MAT ED30 on December 23, 2009, 09:44:39 pm
i ran mine with the full system on with just stage 1 on and after a 200mile trip the light came on but have vag com so i turned it off and after about 20 or so miles it did the same again so just put stage 2 map on to solve it  :laugh: it made no changes to the idle or anything while the light was on
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: candy turbo on December 23, 2009, 09:57:58 pm
 is yours 100 cel cat on your car mat ? blueflame ?
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: MAT ED30 on December 23, 2009, 09:59:01 pm
is yours 100 cel cat on your car mat ? blueflame ?

yes mate it is  :smiley:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: candy turbo on December 23, 2009, 10:08:25 pm
sounds like this could be the case , milltek do a 200 cel sport cat or a 100 cel race cat , ill find out from milltek in jan  :happy2:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on December 24, 2009, 09:01:15 pm
There's only one part shown for the downpipe that I know of on the milly website... how can I tell if my downpipe is 100 or 200 CEL when it arrives?
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: candy turbo on December 27, 2009, 04:23:20 pm
if you order a normal down pipe / cat it will be 200 if you ve ordered a motorsport one it will be 100   hth  :santa:
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: stiggy on December 27, 2009, 05:26:15 pm
I know it's not a milltek, but i've had my exhaust fitted now and driven for around 150 miles with no light so far - it's a blueflame turboback
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on December 27, 2009, 06:17:12 pm
if you order a normal down pipe / cat it will be 200 if you ve ordered a motorsport one it will be 100   hth  :santa:
Thanks for the info candy turbo.  A few more questions...

1) Assuming the 100 CEL gives better performance gains, what is the performance difference between the 200 and 100 CEL downpipes?

2) Will the car pass MOT emissions test with the 100 CEL downpipe fitted?

3) Is there a difference in the engine/exhaust note?  Which downpipe sounds better?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: milltek tbe with out map !!
Post by: candy turbo on December 27, 2009, 10:26:04 pm
i dont think the 100 cel difference will make that much difference in noise or performance BUT  i suppose the die hard guys out there might say different  as for the MOT  i think you may be taking a risk with the 100 cel cat but again i m not 100% sure