MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: Vwgtiking on November 21, 2015, 03:45:56 pm

Title: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: Vwgtiking on November 21, 2015, 03:45:56 pm
It's so blooming powerful I wheelspin all over the place even in 3rd, thus making the power irrelevant.

I have ecstas at min looking to replace fairly soon would the tyres be a starting point?
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: shail on November 21, 2015, 04:18:15 pm
Yep, tyres would be a good place to start.   My wife has those tyres on her 1.6 Mazda 3.  With the colder weather of late I notice a big difference to the grip of the tyres.  Also the roads a a little bit damo all of the time this time of year, so no matter which tyre you have, you'll have less grip.

I have continental sport contact 5 on mine and can't fault them (no remap though).  Someone at work has the Continental's on his 450hp A45 AMG and finds them good too (4wd though).
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: AJP on November 21, 2015, 06:04:57 pm
I'm on Michelin Supersports, Stage 1, 242bhp/296lbft. Get a little bit of spin/hop in 2nd, but I'm sure it'd be worse if I was on the Ecstas I had before the map.

Hard for me to say specifically how much better the Michelins are as I got them just before I went Stage 1, but they're loads better in the bends and generally feel much stickier.

I'll be looking at an anti lift kit soon, which should help further.
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: Vwgtiking on November 21, 2015, 06:16:57 pm
May get some uni royals
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: BigA91 on November 21, 2015, 07:31:43 pm
Maybe a less aggressive/linear map or LSD
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: bluo on November 25, 2015, 05:30:47 pm
LSD
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: Paradox1 on November 25, 2015, 05:34:39 pm
LSD on a stage 1?

Not many have done that. Id say decent tyres and maybe the walk kit will sort it.

Who mapped your car? if its spinning early in the revs then sound like a lot of low end torque?
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: AJP on November 25, 2015, 06:21:41 pm
Haha, yeah a diff would be a waste.

Tyres tyres tyres.
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: PhilNUK on November 25, 2015, 07:26:49 pm
Where is the best place for tyres? I am all over the place in mine and that's as standard...  sh*tty front tyres to get me through an MOT are to blame... 

Need to get some new asap
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: AJP on November 25, 2015, 09:52:31 pm
Where is the best place for tyres? I am all over the place in mine and that's as standard...  sh*tty front tyres to get me through an MOT are to blame... 

Need to get some new asap
Got mine from Oponeo. Never used them before but they were the cheapest at the time.

Camskill are good.

Get a set of Michelin Supersport. Job done.
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: Vwgtiking on November 26, 2015, 06:39:23 am
What's a "walk" kit?
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: AJP on November 26, 2015, 08:12:16 am
Whiteline anti lift kit.
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: Shoduchi on November 26, 2015, 10:46:31 am
A SuperPro anti-lift kit has better reviews and it's what VW Racing chose to use. If budget is an issue then go for the Powerflex ALK. :wink:
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: m1keh on November 26, 2015, 02:27:01 pm
Michelin Pilot Sport 3's are better in the wet than supersports... Sounds like ecsta's really dont like the cold...
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: flashp on November 30, 2015, 01:50:10 pm
LSD on a stage 1?

Not many have done that. Id say decent tyres and maybe the walk kit will sort it.

Who mapped your car? if its spinning early in the revs then sound like a lot of low end torque?

Not many have done it because it's expensive and they can't take it out to sell the car. Those that don't have one will tell you they're not necessary. Those that have them will tell you that they're worth every penny. And they are.

Anti-lift kits of one sort or another are very worthwhile. Engine mounts help but are not solely responsible. There is an awful lot of engine movement on these as standard as the whole car is set up to be very smooth and compliant. The engine behaves as a big pendulum and can assist in destabilizing the front end. No one thing can miraculously cure these issues but the sum of a number of changes can help a lot. It will always be a FWD and as such will need a degree of finesse in adverse conditions. Your goal is to stop geometry angles changing under differing loads and to 'button down' anything that has mass and can move around within it's mounts, such as the engine for example.
Imagine you're under hard acceleration and the engine is pushing back in it's mounts, you lose traction, the engine returns to a 'normal' position due to the load on the drive train reducing to nil suddenly, you regain traction, the engines pushes back in it's mounts and so it repeats.

Throttle control is improved massively with a good set of engine mounts. You can modulate the throttle properly instead of wasting some input in overcoming the cushioning effect of the OE mounts.

Reducing un-sprung weight can help. S3 calipers and discs for example are extremely heavy and all this weight is bouncing up and down on the end of a suspension leg.

Stickier tyres will also be a good thing to invest in. Michelin Pilot Super Sports are a good one to look at. They can manage track days as well if you ever needed to. I have them and have particularly enjoyed them in the wet. No issues at all.

You also need a degree of compliance in your suspension. Harder is not always best and can work against you. Some of the very best suspension set ups are far from the hardest.

No two people are bound to have the same opinion about the same parts since there are so many influences which can and will affect what you are trying to achieve. And then there's your budget.


Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: flashp on November 30, 2015, 02:21:55 pm
Michelin Pilot Sport 3's are better in the wet than supersports... Sounds like ecsta's really dont like the cold...
Are they?

I have PSS and have never for a moment thought I need a better tyre in the wet.
The silica in any tyre will harden as the weather cools. PSS function very well on the road under normal conditions, they also respond positively to track use where higher than normal heat levels will be present and more 'conventional' compounds can start to fail. Reasonably as well since they may never have been intended for that use.

I've not used PS3's so couldn't comment on those.
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: rich83 on November 30, 2015, 05:34:29 pm
My MPSS are proving tricky in the wet, but the fronts are on the wear markers so need replacing soon.
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: patpong_pete on November 30, 2015, 06:41:19 pm
My MPSS are proving tricky in the wet, but the fronts are on the wear markers so need replacing soon.
Rich i thought everyone said these are the the best you can get
but i guess great when on track or dry roads but not so good when wet

what your next tyre choice rich ?
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: flashp on November 30, 2015, 06:50:45 pm
My MPSS are proving tricky in the wet, but the fronts are on the wear markers so need replacing soon.
Rich i thought everyone said these are the the best you can get
but i guess great when on track or dry roads but not so good when wet

what your next tyre choice rich ?

At the wear indicator no tyre will be any good in the wet. This is (or extremely close to) 1.6mm. Germany for example has 3mm, and with good reason. You simply cannot make an assessment on a tyre at this tread depth.
Arguably our laws here are out of date on this.

Google PSS wet weather reviews, you'll find out all you need to know. I've never had a tyre that will let you push so hard in the wet and when it does let go (eventually) it will do so progressively. I only established this on a track. To have done this on the road I would have deserved nicking. 
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: Vwgtiking on December 04, 2015, 09:28:55 pm
Apparently I am running 295ftlb.
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: rich83 on December 05, 2015, 06:13:24 pm
My MPSS are proving tricky in the wet, but the fronts are on the wear markers so need replacing soon.
Rich i thought everyone said these are the the best you can get
but i guess great when on track or dry roads but not so good when wet

what your next tyre choice rich ?

Supersports again without doubt.
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: AJP on December 06, 2015, 05:01:43 pm
I don't think Supersports are 'the best you can get' but for road use and what they cost they're a damn good choice. You might have to spend an extra 100 quid a corner for an all round tyre that's head and shoulders 'better'.

I'm happy with mine.
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: rich83 on December 06, 2015, 05:08:28 pm
They are the best I've tried except yoko a048,but they are defo not suitable for winter conditions
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: AJP on December 06, 2015, 05:52:31 pm
They are the best I've tried except yoko a048,but they are defo not suitable for winter conditions
Yeah they certainly lose grip once it gets down past 10 deg or so, dry or not.
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: rich83 on December 06, 2015, 07:14:47 pm
Sorry I wasn't clear. The yokos are not for winter. Supersports are ok. Just not brilliant.
Title: Re: Getting power down with stage 1
Post by: AJP on December 06, 2015, 07:50:29 pm
Ah I get you. But anyway, I do find the Supersports prefer a bit of heat. I didn't really buy them hoping they'd be brilliant in cold weather as I tend not to push things in cold weather anyway, through principle.

Found them really grippy over the summer though!