MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Pesky jones on December 07, 2015, 06:19:00 pm

Title: torque arm insert
Post by: Pesky jones on December 07, 2015, 06:19:00 pm
Sometimes I think I can hear a quiet clunk when coming to a stop, or if It changes gear quickly. This doesnt happen all the time by all means, and I cant replicate it.

I think im being paranoid since I had the thermostat changed the other day, theres nothing that could have been done to cause this? The one thing that has changed for some reason is the dv is definitely a lot louder. No change in performance however, if anything it feels lile it pulls harder
Title: Re: Dont know whether paranoid or not...
Post by: th3_f15t on December 07, 2015, 06:52:02 pm
Being the winter, the metal of the car will contract slightly allowing for some additional movement that you wouldn't normally get. A clunk sound could be the issue with the stretch bolts of the subframe which is a cheap fix. Other than that, just have a good poke around the engine bay and see if anything does indeed feel loose.
Title: Re: Dont know whether paranoid or not...
Post by: Pesky jones on December 07, 2015, 07:35:25 pm
I actually ordered some subframe bolts yesterday
Title: Re: Dont know whether paranoid or not...
Post by: th3_f15t on December 08, 2015, 12:58:29 pm
The subframe will knock when accelerating or slowing rapidly, or cornering with some spirit. If it's bumping while driving in a constant line/speed over a rough road then perhaps examine your suspension to check the springs/top mounts aren't failing.
Title: Re: Dont know whether paranoid or not...
Post by: Pesky jones on December 09, 2015, 09:26:35 am
thanks @th3_f15t (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8969)  ,im going to replace the subframe bolts, then im thinking I might look into replacing mounts – can’t hurt right! Gearbox mount & engine mount? I’ve heard about dogbone mounts etc. do you know much about them?
Title: Re: Dont know whether paranoid or not...
Post by: th3_f15t on December 09, 2015, 11:58:33 am
Engine (left) and transmission mount (right) aren't worth worrying about unless you're chasing the big numbers. The big one to focus on is the torque arm insert (a.k.a. the dogbone mount, a name carried over from the mk4 but is a bit incorrect with the mk5/6 design). One of these helps stiffen up the engine without causing too much noise/vibration in the cabin. They're a cheap and very effective way of helping improve the overall feel of the car at any level of tuning and a must if you're running a full turbo back exhaust.

There are loads of different ones on the market, I would personally opt for a SuperPro Fast Road one as I've run them on both my mk5 Golf GTI and my mk6 Golf R and they're more than worth the £30 they cost.

Another modification worth investing in is an anti-lift kit, these really help in a front wheel drive car and can improve handling quite a noticeable amount for such a small modification.
Title: Re: Dont know whether paranoid or not...
Post by: Pesky jones on December 09, 2015, 12:29:59 pm
Cheers! Just what I wanted to know. Will I be able to fit the SuperPro fast road dogbone mount and an anti lift kit myself with a couple of axle stands?  Recommend an anti lift kit?

Thanks
Title: Re: Dont know whether paranoid or not...
Post by: th3_f15t on December 09, 2015, 04:55:18 pm
You'll be well to invest in a breaker bar too, they make most jobs with suspension/brakes a lot easier. The torque inset is really simple to fit so yes, I've never fitted the anti lift kit myself but shouldn't be too difficult with a good set of axle stands.

I'd go for the SuperPro anti lift kit.
Title: Re: Dont know whether paranoid or not...
Post by: AJP on December 09, 2015, 05:17:25 pm
@th3_f15t

In regards to the dogbone/insert benefitting a setup with a turbo-back exhaust, why is that? Does it help with stress/flex at the downpipe?

And another question - getting alignment after fitting an anti lift kit - would you ask the operator to set up the geometry according to normal oem values, or would it be set to different values to a car without an anti-lift kit, to take into account the extra castor etc?

Apologies if silly questions, thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Dont know whether paranoid or not...
Post by: th3_f15t on December 09, 2015, 06:33:49 pm
Not a silly set of questions at all!

Yes, exactly the reason you mentioned. A stock exhaust has quite a large flexible section whereas a performance orientated exhaust does not. The stock one is deigned to compensate for excessive movement when running OE rubber engine mounts (due to cost). Using a torque insert helps keep the engine in place when torque is applied (hence the name). So by reducing the engine movement, you reduce the risk of damage to a performance exhaust.

With regards to alignment, it's a difficult one to answer as I'm not that clued up but as a rule of thumb I would only stray from OE spec if also running springs, dampers or coilovers. If you change the height of the car (thus the centre of gravity) you'll need to adjust the camber according to cope with the different physics of the car once a lower centre of gravity is set.
Title: Re: Dont know whether paranoid or not...
Post by: AJP on December 09, 2015, 07:38:30 pm
Not a silly set of questions at all!

Yes, exactly the reason you mentioned. A stock exhaust has quite a large flexible section whereas a performance orientated exhaust does not. The stock one is deigned to compensate for excessive movement when running OE rubber engine mounts (due to cost). Using a torque insert helps keep the engine in place when torque is applied (hence the name). So by reducing the engine movement, you reduce the risk of damage to a performance exhaust.

With regards to alignment, it's a difficult one to answer as I'm not that clued up but as a rule of thumb I would only stray from OE spec if also running springs, dampers or coilovers. If you change the height of the car (thus the centre of gravity) you'll need to adjust the camber according to cope with the different physics of the car once a lower centre of gravity is set.
Great info mate, cheers.

Regarding shocks and springs, it's on 30mm H&R springs and it's had full geo since they were fitted at a place with a proper Hunter machine. Think he did take into account the extra negative camber when he set it all up.

Drives superbly, so once the ALK is fitted I'll nip it back to make sure it's all within tolerance.

Need to get Christmas and all that out of the way first... then start working on my ever-increasing to-do list on the GTI in the new year!

Cheers again mate. Hope the R is running nicely.
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: Pesky jones on January 06, 2016, 01:00:51 pm
@th3_f15t (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8969)

Could you point me in the right direction, cant seem to find that one anywhere.

Otherwise, i'll get this - it includes a new bolt and I assume REVO are reliable

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/engine-mounts/car/volkswagen/golf-mk5-gti/revo-technik-torque-mount-insert (http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/engine-mounts/car/volkswagen/golf-mk5-gti/revo-technik-torque-mount-insert)
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: th3_f15t on January 06, 2016, 06:46:52 pm
Revo are one of the top VAG tunres so you won't go wrong with them. Here's a link to a SuperPro insert:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Golf-Mk5-6-04-08-Petrol-Lower-Torque-Mount-Dogbone-Bush-Insert-Kit-SuperPro-/251742459882?hash=item3a9d0517ea:g:JEwAAOSwstxVcVcR

Note on the page it does show you the two different types, as VW changed the shape of the insert of post 2008 cars, so just make sure that's the right one for your car (if it's between '04 and '57 plates you'll be fine with the one in the link).
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: Pesky jones on January 06, 2016, 08:07:50 pm
Do you think the fact it doesnt comr with a bolt matters
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: wrlcs on January 07, 2016, 09:07:16 am
Hi, would it be correct to say that this would be easily reversible if needed. 
Thanks, brendan
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: DANBOY66 on January 07, 2016, 12:21:09 pm
get the super pro one and use the same bolt

2 versions available i had the soft one as i didn't want more cabin vibration advisable with a dsg car

Dan..
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: Vintyd on January 07, 2016, 12:41:51 pm
I ordered one a few weeks back, haven't fitted yet but I didn't realise there is a softer version.  Is there a part number to check or based on colour?
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: Pesky jones on January 07, 2016, 01:18:10 pm
@th3_f15t (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8969) is the one in the link the soft one? I cant see anywwhere
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: Beej on January 07, 2016, 01:48:35 pm
I have the yellow powerflex insert fitted, went in with very little effort and I bought a new bolt from tps just to safe about it, seen as its meant to be a stretch bolt. I did however do it lying under the car on the drive
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: DANBOY66 on January 07, 2016, 02:01:57 pm
just phone alex at aks he will give you a good price and the correct soft version

Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: th3_f15t on January 07, 2016, 04:08:42 pm
Look at the part numbers, the one with 80K is the road (softer) version and the one with 90K in is the track (harder) version. The one I linked to is the 80K road version.

Hi, would it be correct to say that this would be easily reversible if needed. 
Thanks, brendan

Yes, easily reversible, just remove it back out the car when you've finished with it.

Tutorial video (ECS Tuning):

Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: DANBOY66 on January 07, 2016, 05:16:51 pm
just to confuse you all a bit more remember that there is two types of inserts early and late year cars so make sure you order the one to fit your mount :grin: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: tlnds on February 29, 2016, 01:52:54 pm
I have the yellow powerflex insert fitted, went in with very little effort and I bought a new bolt from tps just to safe about it, seen as its meant to be a stretch bolt. I did however do it lying under the car on the drive
Anyone have the part number for the bolt?
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: Beej on February 29, 2016, 01:54:04 pm
I don't to hand, just phoned tps for one. Try them or local vw, was about 3 quid I think
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: rich83 on February 29, 2016, 01:58:18 pm
You can reuse the bolt
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: Dan_FR on February 29, 2016, 03:09:26 pm
People do re-use it, I've done it before temporarily, but officially it is a stretch bolt and should be replaced.
Title: Re: torque arm insert
Post by: tlnds on March 04, 2016, 09:27:41 am
May as well for the cost of a new one. N 105 580 02, if anyone was wondering.