MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: gobbleplease on January 01, 2010, 01:28:11 pm
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by G4 EDW
I had a play with one of these yesterday and got to say there wasnt much in it at all in the first few gears.... it was only when the M gets to stretch its legs in the top of third upwards that the gap started to open!...Quite scary... if that was on tight, twisty roads i would have been a bit concerned... thats the trouble with n/a cars in my opinion... they lack that punch.... it was the same with my mates Audi TTS with the 265bhp engine... in first, second and third there was nothing in it and he had a smug grin on his face for a short while.
Here is a little pic of my M3 with some mods (see sig for full list)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Foo147%2Freidtastic%2Fcar002.jpg&hash=60b01071b2d9ca8eb98ce1f5b0d59fbf8f661bc6)
Here is the Gti, Standard - although after owning it for the last 3 weeks ive spent over 2k on it already.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Foo147%2Freidtastic%2Febay090.jpg&hash=f264c4f5f5fad29493c0888ecf6ef2f88668e882)
oh by the way G4 EDW i think you have pretty much hit the nail on the head.
And about it "Probably been mapped " trust me you would know if one had been mapped becuase you would be like WTF.
When i first bought the car i thought, jesus this thing shifts and suspected it must of been mapped by the previous owner so i took it to the garage and got them to check it over and it was running a standard setting to my amazment, in which he said he has seen quite a few GTIs running over the standard power figures.
Ok a little review on my findings of the M3 and the GTI
LOOKS
There is no doubting the M3 is the better looking car by miles, but i really do love the looks of the of the gti, its just that i think the M3 is honestly one of the best looking cars EVER made (along with the E30 Evo, alfa 8c and some TVRs) Seriously .
The interior of the M3 is luxuary but boaring and un-inspiring, although with a few wisly spent £££ this can be sorted out, the driving position is spot on although i never felt comfortable on long journeys in the M. The Gti is pretty basic but a nicer place to be, more querky with more of a smile factor and comfortable on the longer journeys + i absolutly love the tartan seats and walked away from a few leather equiped numbers because the tartans were a must have , the interior doesnt use the same quality of materials as the M but they are still really good, although the GTI stereo and speakers are absolutly Sh1t and a real ret down.
Also the obvious advantage of the gti is the hatchback practiacality, what it can swallow up is pretty unbelievable,
PERFORMANCE.
The M3 has awesome of the line grip which in my opinion is why it makes the dash to 60 so quick and as G4 EDW said once its up and dancing there is not much out there that will keep up with it, i can remember brawling with a bently conti GT and a few 911s and thinking jesus i never expected that, this is a hugely capable car and with the eisenmann fitted it had a sound to die for i really miss it . The only thing with the m is the power delivery is very linear and so it doesnt give a real impression of the sence of speed, even though you are seriously bloody shifting. Its also going to dent the feck out of your savings if you want more power.
The Gti............ Well like i said i thought mine was remapped because it felt propper quick, alot quicker than i thought (and thats from someone thats came from an M3). The instant torque made it waft you along pretty briskly and if im honest even standard it feels faster than the M3 all though i put this down to the deceptivness of turbo power as turbo cars do "feel" quicker than NA cars although im under no illusion that the M3 is the quicker car, Ive also driven a REVO stg1 tuned car and that was bloody quick, seriously you will never know until you have been in one. With the GTI about the 2k mark will give you REVO stage 2+ which will see about 290bhp or for about £400 you will be looking at REVO stage 1 250bhp, but again talking about tuning if you fit an SC to an m3 it will blow the gti in to the weeds.
As said if an m3 and gti were giving it some on normal roads i think the the m3 driver would fail to significatly pull away from the gti untill it was hitting the high notes.
BRAKES
Well be all know that M3s arnt the best in the brake department but with the csl kit and a few extras i found the m to be very competant, although standard it was a differant story.
The gti brakes are pretty simelar although work better than the M3s, that hasnt stopped me buying a front AP set up though.
CHASSIS
the fact of the matter is the M3 is RWD and nothing else matters, sideways on roundabouts its just amazing, even in standard form i found the set up great, a little understeer in corners under light acceleration, with oversteer on command with a blast of the loud pedal. Perfect ! it didnt stop me wanting a set of HSDs though. Although the roll felt well judged so i didnt think it would be worth changing the ARBs
The gti is obviously FWD but it is a good one, it feels more alive and eager than the M in the the tight corners and is well controled. I think alot of people would be quicker in this than the M3 on a tight track or twisty B roads, due to its corner quickness & ease of control, i feel very at home in
this and the M too, the M is One of the best handeling RWD cars out there but at the same time the GTI is one of the Best FWD cars. Ive just bought some KWs to improve things further moreon the GTI, although in the handeling stakes I know which i prefer MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
CONCLUSION.
They are both great cars in differant ways, and TBH i absolutly love both cars what the golf takes with one hand the BMW snatches back with the other
Hope this Helps !
-
M3's are very good cars, but always feel alot faster than they actually are.
I hope the next gen M3's looses the lardyness, and will be a tuners dream with the turbod straight six lump.
-
Yip ive always said ill move back in too an M when they add turbos, its the way forward.
The new 1 series M is a straight 6 twin turbo, i think this will be next on my hit list. :wink:
If they are doing that with the one series i think the 3 will be a V8 turbo and that should be sweet, never know though, although im sure all the new Ms will utilise turbo power. :notworthy:
-
i take it neither of you have driven the e90/92 m3? It certainly doesnt need a "turbo" and is one quick car.
It will blow an rs4/e46 m3 into the weeds.
-
i take it neither of you have driven the e90/92 m3? It certainly doesnt need a "turbo" and is one quick car.
It will blow an rs4/e46 m3 into the weeds.
e92 is very very quick :jumping:
-
i take it neither of you have driven the e90/92 m3? It certainly doesnt need a "turbo" and is one quick car.
It will blow an rs4/e46 m3 into the weeds.
i certainly have and yes its bloody quick as is the e46 m3. I never said it needed a turbo although i did say that turbos are the way forward.
it is quicker than the E46 and marginally quicker than the RS4 but it would certainly Not blow either in to weeds, this is speaking from experiance.
-
I've had a few rolling runs with both v6 and v8 m3's, and I have to say there was nothing in it. Pound for power I would have the tuned ED30.
-
I have a Z4M Roadster .... and until a few months ago had a Superchips Bluefin Stage 1 Edition 30.
The Edition 30 felt quicker !! Off the mark it would get murdered by the Z4M but the in gear punch once moving I am sure would surprise any M3 driver .... and my car was only Stage One !!
The thing with the Z4 M and the 3.2L six it shares with the M3 is that the power is very linear and it just keeps on going and going ..... with a rather nice noise
I do wish I could have my Edition 30 back ... as well as the Z4M .... or am I being greedy :grin:
-
i take it neither of you have driven the e90/92 m3? It certainly doesnt need a "turbo" and is one quick car.
It will blow an rs4/e46 m3 into the weeds.
still slower than a 360bhp 2.0tfsi. Vids on youtube prove it. E92 M3 feels alot faster than a 360hp 2.0T but its not so in reality.
-
Speaking from experience and against an experienced track driver in an E46 M3 I can say that the ED30 is most definitely the faster car, both at the 'ring and Spa. :happy2:
-
I drive my mums e92 M3 quite often and its certainly a different machine to the e46, although when her boyfriends driving it he cant pull away from me in the twisties.
GTI FTW :star:
-
I drive my mums e92 M3 quite often and its certainly a different machine to the e46, although when her boyfriends driving it he cant pull away from me in the twisties.
GTI FTW :star:
Can he not drive then?? Obviously not- or is that the point youre making?
A properly driven M car will anhialate a Gti in the twisties. End of. :happy2:
-
I drive my mums e92 M3 quite often and its certainly a different machine to the e46, although when her boyfriends driving it he cant pull away from me in the twisties.
GTI FTW :star:
Can he not drive then?? Obviously not- or is that the point youre making?
A properly driven M car will anhialate a Gti in the twisties. End of. :happy2:
Surely you mean a properly driven new shape M car?
-
Either to be fair, E46/92 against a standard GTI, it's no contest. Of course put an ED30 with a bit of fettling in the mix, and it's different all together. But a pro driver in both will still get the M quicker down the same road, but not by much and weather depending. I love, as I'm sure most of us do, surprising a lot of cars in my Ed30.
-
Either to be fair, E46/92 against a standard GTI, it's no contest. Of course put an ED30 with a bit of fettling in the mix, and it's different all together. But a pro driver in both will still get the M quicker down the same road, but not by much and weather depending. I love, as I'm sure most of us do, surprising a lot of cars in my Ed30.
Maybe the E90, but not the E46. I've walked E46's on track and on European M roads have easily pulled on them.
Car Power lbft wt - kg bhp/ton
M3 (E46) 338 269 1570 219
M3 CSL 355 273 1385 255
M3 (E90) 414 295 1680 250
ED30 (stage 2+) 340 350 1370 248
Mine 360+ 360 1350 265+
-
The thread is about the standard GTI not a highly modified ED30. And in my ED30 comment above, I mentioned lightly fettled, not an absolute screamer like yours, which I would agree is no contest :happy2:
-
i think u have the weight wrong John as i know its over 1400 with a full tank of fuel and yours is dsg too
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fvwrweighin.jpg&hash=de8dd64705120532521d553cd7fcaa6392876a25)
thats mine and its not dsg
-
The thread is about the standard GTI not a highly modified ED30. And in my ED30 comment above, I mentioned lightly fettled, not an absolute screamer like yours, which I would agree is no contest :happy2:
Sorry :ashamed:
Yes, I agree a GTI v's an M3 would be very different :laugh:
Car Power lbft wt - kg bhp/ton
M3 (E46) 338 269 1570 219
M3 CSL 355 273 1385 255
M3 (E90) 414 295 1680 250
St GTI 197 207 1329 150
Mod GTI 260 310 1329 196
-
i think u have the weight wrong John as i know its over 1400 with a full tank of fuel and yours is dsg too
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Fvwrweighin.jpg&hash=de8dd64705120532521d553cd7fcaa6392876a25)
thats mine and its not dsg
OMG, you have an obese car :signLOL:
Mine with a qtr tank is waaaaaaay less than that now :innocent:
-
it was a full tank of juice plus some crap in the car but only cds and thats about it and that was before td wheels got put on
-
Interesting, when I had mine at VWR and was corner weighted mine came out at 1410Kgs for a DSG car, with me in it at 85Kgs with full tank of fuel.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fdomt%2FGolf_Edition30%2FPicture097.jpg&hash=2de31e4cb9e8087979a4f6228b89d198abe9c2f0)
-
Yes, I agree a GTI v's an M3 would be very different :laugh:
Car Power lbft wt - kg bhp/ton
M3 (E46) 338 269 1570 219
M3 CSL 355 273 1385 255
M3 (E90) 414 295 1680 250
St GTI 197 207 1329 150
stage 2Mod GTI 260 310 1329 196
Stage 2+ GTI 280 320 1329 210
even in stage 2+ guise the k03 doesnt cut the mustardin the comparison. but it would bequick enough to annoy the owner of an M3 when they dont lose them as quickly as they think they might have.
thatswhy i really want this k04 conversion. nothing could offends a BMW driver more than a skoda driving past them
-
Interesting, when I had mine at VWR and was corner weighted mine came out at 1410Kgs for a DSG car, with me in it at 85Kgs with full tank of fuel.
mines a 5 door too
-
Interesting, when I had mine at VWR and was corner weighted mine came out at 1410Kgs for a DSG car, with me in it at 85Kgs with full tank of fuel.
mines a 5 door too
So is mine!! :smiley:
-
look at robins
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1457.0
its 5 door dsg
-
Before i went KO4 in my vRS i had a play with a 2003 M3 with my maxxed out KO3. On the straights there was nothing in it. He did have the edge on big bends because of his wider wheels and stiffer suspension etc... He would pull a slight gap on the bend and on the straight my huge midrange caught up a little.. He must have got upset because he became desperate and started driving like a loon so i let him go.
-
Either to be fair, E46/92 against a standard GTI, it's no contest. Of course put an ED30 with a bit of fettling in the mix, and it's different all together. But a pro driver in both will still get the M quicker down the same road, but not by much and weather depending. I love, as I'm sure most of us do, surprising a lot of cars in my Ed30.
Totally agree, be under no illusion that a well driven lightly modded GTI will beat a standard M3 IT WONT, i actually found that the E46 was better in the handleing stakes than the E92 M3. A higher stage tuned gti might well cause the m3 some problems, Although if we are talking about tuned cars why shouldnt the M3 be tuned too ? then its back to bye bye GTI.
Where the GTI would gain on the m3 would be On the braking and on some twisties.
but im 100% sure though that somone in an m3 would be like WTF whilest looking in the rear view mirror with a gti following.
:happy2:
-
Even if the skoda/leon/golf was quicker i would still have an E46 M3. You could buy and supercharge one for much less than ED30 and mods so not a real comparison imo.
They are not hugely fast standard but then 1 sec difference to 60 on the roads is about half a car length! I left one behind with ease in the 32 in the rain about a month ago and kept up with one through the twisties as the haldex made the car drive better than i could get it to as im a poo driver :signLOL: The 32 simply caught it out the as its very slow compared to the M3, had one obliterate me in the dry once but it was a CSL (well was badged as one)
Love M3's :evilgrin:
-
I like this thread - due to be buying an E46 M3 in a couple of months! A lot of interesting information, and has answered some of the questions that I had thought about!
Thank you all :drinking:
-
i fully agree that a modded ed30 is a quick as an e46 in a straight line (my brother had an e46 m3 and i still have an s3 with GIAC)
The s3 was quicker in a straight line and i know an ed30 would be just as quick as my s3.
Now when my borther got his e90 m3 (4 door model) it left my s3 and my friends rs4 for dead and that is no joke.
Forget power to weight people get to hung up on it (gearing,power delivers,torque etc etc all play equally important roles),its how the car performs on the road and time and time again the m3 left my car and the rs4 for dead. They are a different class.
The only downside is that your average driver cant access all the power easily like you can in the s3/ed30
-
I like this thread - due to be buying an E46 M3 in a couple of months! A lot of interesting information, and has answered some of the questions that I had thought about!
Thank you all :drinking:
An itch i will scratch! Even if it isnt an E46 i will own an M3 of some sort at some point in my life :drool:
-
Even if the skoda/leon/golf was quicker i would still have an E46 M3. You could buy and supercharge one for much less than ED30 and mods so not a real comparison imo.
They are not hugely fast standard but then 1 sec difference to 60 on the roads is about half a car length! I left one behind with ease in the 32 in the rain about a month ago and kept up with one through the twisties as the haldex made the car drive better than i could get it to as im a poo driver :signLOL: The 32 simply caught it out the as its very slow compared to the M3, had one obliterate me in the dry once but it was a CSL (well was badged as one)
Love M3's :evilgrin:
If you want a supercharged m3 you are looking at 6K for the kit so defo not the cheapest to mod.
You wouldnt want the cheaper versions as these suffer from heatsoak as they are non intercooled (also add another 1K on top of that for fitting ). Another good mod if you want to stay N/A is a full Eisenmann exhaust or supersprint about £3k and a CSL style Plenum with alpha N mapping should see you with an extra 30bhp the crap BHP gains for the money says nothing about the actual drivability after this mod, the results are Stunning, the best automotive Note in the world seriously.
:happy2:
-
I like this thread - due to be buying an E46 M3 in a couple of months! A lot of interesting information, and has answered some of the questions that I had thought about!
Thank you all :drinking:
The bad thing about the M3 is ownership costs inspection 2 £1000. Brake disks and pads £650, oil £95.
And modding is ridiculous, there is a very high standard of gtis, s3s, leons, Vrs s on this forum and to keep an M3 up to this standard you are looking at mega bucks, I was looking at easily £10k worth of mods to get the M to the grade i wanted. This was far too much for me so i decided to cut my losses and go for something i can get to spec for a lot less............Enter the GTI
As far as cars go GTIs and M3s have been my bread and butter and have owned a few of each. Im more clued up on my Ms at the moment as my last two cars have been M3s.
If you have any questions reguarding your next car the M3 ( Great choice by the way ) give me a shout and ill do my best to answer :wink:
-
Thats why, as much as i love the E46, i want to get a 335i as a map will put it well past an E46 M3 and not far off an E92 M3. Would love an old M3 as a weekend toy :evilgrin:
-
i fully agree that a modded ed30 is a quick as an e46 in a straight line (my brother had an e46 m3 and i still have an s3 with GIAC)
The s3 was quicker in a straight line and i know an ed30 would be just as quick as my s3.
Now when my borther got his e90 m3 (4 door model) it left my s3 and my friends rs4 for dead and that is no joke.
Forget power to weight people get to hung up on it (gearing,power delivers,torque etc etc all play equally important roles),its how the car performs on the road and time and time again the m3 left my car and the rs4 for dead. They are a different class.
The only downside is that your average driver cant access all the power easily like you can in the s3/ed30
Think you need to do some more mods mate lol.
My mates e92 m3 was only slighlty quicker than my cupra when I had only a map and hpfp.
Beat them now though.
-
saving my pennies for an e92, different class of car. I know that the ko4 with a hpfp is a good package but dont want a modded car again (not one in warranty anyway).
-
The off putting thing about an E46 M3, for me, is how dated they feel inside. However the upside is how well and rewarding they drive, and how frugal they are in normal driving.
We looked at supercharging a customers car, and spoke in depth to CA automotive, even got to the stage of demoing their outrageous 500plus bhp yellow car!- check it on their website. Anyway the point I'm getting to, is it not just a case of slapping a charger on. Brakes need to he uprated, as they're sh*te, uprated clutch, new x pipe etc, and all this fitted with the SC kit was north of ten grand!! And what a lot of people forget is the general running costs as pointed out above.
However, I do agree, they are an itch to be scratched, and well worth it, if you get a good one. I'm lucky enough to have driven and sold lots, so my itch has been scatched, I just have the 911 one to sort out, but the plans are in place for that one.......
-
i fully agree that a modded ed30 is a quick as an e46 in a straight line (my brother had an e46 m3 and i still have an s3 with GIAC)
The s3 was quicker in a straight line and i know an ed30 would be just as quick as my s3.
Now when my borther got his e90 m3 (4 door model) it left my s3 and my friends rs4 for dead and that is no joke.
Forget power to weight people get to hung up on it (gearing,power delivers,torque etc etc all play equally important roles),its how the car performs on the road and time and time again the m3 left my car and the rs4 for dead. They are a different class.
The only downside is that your average driver cant access all the power easily like you can in the s3/ed30
Think you need to do some more mods mate lol.
My mates e92 m3 was only slighlty quicker than my cupra when I had only a map and hpfp.
Beat them now though.
Im planning on doing all my chassis, visual mods before i even start on performance so i havnt done much research on this yet
im just wondering what a k04-3 car will max out at after tuning.
I plan on going stage 2 Plus (not this year though) full miltek, star performance HPFP, carbonio revo stg 2 +
i dont want to loose the engine cover so im not going for one of the tastey Induction kits - what sort of performance do you reccon this will make eg ingear times, 0-60, 1/4 mile, top speed.
Comments greatly appreciated. :smiley:
-
yea leeds they are comming down in price nicely at the moment, thats a good theory you have about not modding. It will take a fair bit of will power though :happy2:
I didnt think the E46 felt that dated inside TBH 0li, it was bloody "hang your self from the sunroof" boaring though.
Yea that CA monster must of been a beast, like you said though mega expensive 4k brakes 7-8k for the ESS Vt supercharger,
where do you stop ? I still go to the M3 meets as im still a big fan and i know someone who will be getting one fitted soon so he is going to come and take me for a spin, It will be an experiance :jumpmove:
-
I'd never consider an E46 M3! *dons M3 lovers armour!!*
For the cost of modding an M3 I'd rather buy an R32 and go for twin-turbo power :evilgrin:
-
I'd never consider an E46 M3! *dons M3 lovers armour!!*
For the cost of modding an M3 I'd rather buy an R32 and go for twin-turbo power :evilgrin:
Ive changed my mind, im with Hurdy! Ill start saving with you and we can share it, i get mon, weds, fri and sun and you get tues, thurs , sat :happy2:
-
I'd never consider an E46 M3! *dons M3 lovers armour!!*
For the cost of modding an M3 I'd rather buy an R32 and go for twin-turbo power :evilgrin:
Ive changed my mind, im with Hurdy! Ill start saving with you and we can share it, i get mon, weds, fri and sun and you get tues, thurs , sat :happy2:
Sounds good to me :signLOL: :driver:
-
a similar thread from a while back
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7692.0
includes my end of term review with my E46 M3 :happy2:
-
I like this thread - due to be buying an E46 M3 in a couple of months! A lot of interesting information, and has answered some of the questions that I had thought about!
Thank you all :drinking:
If you have any questions reguarding your next car the M3 ( Great choice by the way ) give me a shout and ill do my best to answer :wink:
Much appreciated! Thanks mate :happy2:
-
My ED30 with K04 walked on my Dads E92 M3 nooo problem.. Like cars and cars.. And the E92 is a HUGE amount faster than an E46..
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fo304%2Fjonnnny28%2FDSC05287small.jpg&hash=d2b2f226e93962c3e62b28399c0c5a084051f066)
Still, the M3 is a beautiful car, I enjoyed driving it a lot, and at the end of the day, its hardly apples and apples comparing a modified hatch to a V8 Coupe..
For me I would far rather have an unsuspecting hatch, it just makes it so much more fun blowing these guys away.. Which is why I have the Golf.. :happy2: