MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => How to Guides / Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Joshy on December 11, 2015, 01:01:07 pm
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My gti is making a strange noise when at very low revs. I don't even know how to describe the sound:confused:
Happens going slow up hills mainly, but does do it when setting off on flat roads. The car is an 06 DSG if that helps. Video link below
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p52pinoo3w4xiso/Video%2011-12-2015%2C%2008%2053%2001%20%281%29.mov?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/p52pinoo3w4xiso/Video%2011-12-2015%2C%2008%2053%2001%20%281%29.mov?dl=0)
Also any info on symptoms of a failed DSG box? Sometimes I feel like its failed, but other times seen fine!?
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I can barely ever so faintly hear a howling type of noise even with full volume. correct me if I'm wrong.
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I can barely ever so faintly hear a howling type of noise even with full volume. correct me if I'm wrong.
It's more of a stretching/creaking sound. I've made the video too long. The noise starts at around 11 seconds and carries on towards the end of it.
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Honestly mate, I hear nothing towards 11 and onward. Maybe upload a better video ???
How do you define failed dsg?.
On taking off, does the car seem like it jerks forward?.
Kangaroo type of jump?.
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Ah sorry! Was difficult trying to capture to noise as the iphone picks up every little noise it can! I'll have an other go tomorrow.
Yeah, but only sometimes does it jerk forward. Mainly does it in manual mode, it kinda jerks between 1-2-3, but ot all the time.
It definitely does it when i go into reverse though. It sort of hesitates and then I hear a loud bang as it starts to reverse. This isn't all the time though!
Think i'll go get the car looked at, too many noises coming from it at the minute
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do you get any noise/vibration in drive with your foot on the brake?
I get a clunk selecting reverse/drive.
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Check your left hand side mounting, gear box mounting as this is a common failure point causing jerks.
You will notice engine moving back and forth battery side mainly.
please check and report back thanks :happy2:
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do you get any noise/vibration in drive with your foot on the brake?
I get a clunk selecting reverse/drive.
Yes, sometimes idles like normal, but other times it vibrates quite loud, then calms down.
Yeah the clunk/bang is very annoying. Doesn't do it all the all the time though. Mainly going into reverse. It does it if i change into reverse and quickly give it some throttle!?
Check your left hand side mounting, gear box mounting as this is a common failure point causing jerks.
You will notice engine moving back and forth battery side mainly.
please check and report back thanks :happy2:
How'd I go about checking the engine moving back and forth!?
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Best with engine cold so tou dont burn yoir hand with engine cover off.
closest side gearbox needs to be rocked with your hand and if it's stable it won't move at all. If the mount is weak damaged then it will Rock back and forth. Other way is to start engine and get someone to look at the left hand side of engine gearbox side to see if it moves whilst in gear with gentle foot on gas pedal as if your about to drive off. you can feel even feel the car rocking yourself with second option.
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I think my rattle is down to the DMF. Not going to bother changing it at the moment.
The clunk i get is only when selecting the gear not accelerating. So as @r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) said maybe the mount is loose.
Others have said the clunk could be down to the mechatronic unit but at the moment most gear changes are smooth so i'm not going to bother with that either.
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@dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457).
Just a thought.
DMF will usually shudder when taking up drive in first gear, if it's really bad you'll hear a clunk for sure.
My GTI did what your is doing before I replaced the gearbox mount and now all fixed :grin:
I had a friend who's car vibrated/shuddered on take off from stand still first or second gear and that was her DMF but she never replaced it until was too late and broke down. not saying your going to break down :smiley:
I have found the golf mounts to be the weakest link for our engines when it comes to stabilising the engine. poly bushes are the best solution and always recommended although the gear box and engine mount bushing are ridiculously priced. :sad1: dog bone mod is a cheap mod and helps quite a bit. :happy2:
M
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The mounts would be an easier fix than the dmf, not sure how much movement there should be. This is a vid i took a while back since then i have changed the cambelt.
http://daz.co/video/20150420_134719_1.mp4
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The mounts would be an easier fix than the dmf, not sure how much movement there should be. This is a vid i took a while back since then i have changed the cambelt.
http://daz.co/video/20150420_134719_1.mp4
Thanks for the video dazza, the engine isn't meant to move like that!!! was it easy to move with less force?.
This should be a sticky for gearbox mount failure :jumping:
Thanks
M
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Did you renew the engine mount bolts when you done the cam belt Dazza?
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So if your engine rocks like dazzas video, your gearbox mount is failed?
ive had the engine reved in park mode before and watched the engine and it rocks back and forth maybe an inch. I'll have to take the cover off and rock it like dazza did to see. Is he just rocking the whole engine?
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I don't know how many replace the mounting bolts but I've never replaced them and I've done many timing belt jobs.
Only when at work we have to replace the bolts and that's for recalls or warranty work. If the customer doesn't request replacement when they come in themselves and ask for a replacement belt kit, we will reuse the old bolts but do recommend renewal.
So if your engine rocks like dazzas video, your gearbox mount is failed?
ive had the engine reved in park mode before and watched the engine and it rocks back and forth maybe an inch. I'll have to take the cover off and rock it like dazza did to see. Is he just rocking the whole engine?
99% of the time the mount is badly worn as I had this with mine when purchasing the car but it was okay when I went for the test drive. Only when I paid the deposit and then went for collection is when I found the car to be jerking as one of the traders workers was driving it back from some where!!! I think the baaskeeet was hammering it as it felt jerky on the was home which is why I assumed ds box fault. Later found mount was knackered.
Hope this helps along with the video dazza kindly put up.
M
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Thanks for the video dazza, the engine isn't meant to move like that!!! was it easy to move with less force?.
This should be a sticky for gearbox mount failure :jumping:
Thanks
M
I had to use some force it does not move easy.
Did you renew the engine mount bolts when you done the cam belt Dazza?
Yes mate i replaced the engine mount bolts.
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@rich83 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=709) did you replace your engine mount?
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No mate. Apparently they are ok.
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I don't like the movement as mine is solid and doesn't move unless I put it in gear and gas it. Maybe because it's new.
M
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No mate. Apparently they are ok.
I will leave it then. If it is the DMF could this cause other problems or will it just get noisier/rougher then fail?
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This vibration/noise is not sitting well with my OCD. Is there any way to know 100% if its the DMF? Seen a vid where they take the starter motor off and check for play.. see video below.
Can i DIY the DMF? :scared:
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Have a read of this.
http://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/dmf-failure-diagnosis-tips
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Have a read of this.
http://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/dmf-failure-diagnosis-tips
Thanks mate i may take the starter motor off and see how much movement is there.
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Have a read of this.
http://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/dmf-failure-diagnosis-tips
Thanks mate i may take the starter motor off and see how much movement is there.
Lets hope it's not that as it'll cost a small fortune.
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Lets hope it's not that as it'll cost a small fortune.
If its not that i'm stumped as it only does it in D R S with foot on the brake.
I need a new clutch in the beater so i may do that first and build up some confidence.
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Muppet question :ashamed: what gear should car be in to check DMF via the starter motor?
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Would have thought in park tbh as you'd get play either in park or drive.
Was talking with a colleague at work today and he says it could be either the clutch packs or the dmf but not 100% as various other things could play a part in this such as fuelling carbon in mani.
What happens whilst in drive or are you at stand still in those gears with foot on the pedal and the cars juddering?.
If it judders on take off too, it could be the above mentioned too.
I've just watched you're video again and listened closely on rocking the engine and I can hear a knocking sound when you rock the engine which doesn't sound right to me.
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I tried it in park and could not move it. Didn't want to use to much force with a screwdriver.
Its ok when driving. Only happens when foot is on the brake in D,R & S. Or coasting to a stop with foot lightly on the brake. Its as if the dash is rattling/vibrating.
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Did you also try it in gears with engine switched off of course?.
That to me imho sounds like a gearbox mounting worn out as my car used to get a vibration in d r?.
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Tried in gear but still could not move it. How much force should be needed to move it? Will check the mounts tomorrow.
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I noticed today that there could be a leak at the brake booster.
Could this be related to the problems i'm having?
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Tried in gear but still could not move it. How much force should be needed to move it? Will check the mounts tomorrow.
As you can see from the video I posted that it doesn't need much force to move it.
I noticed today that there could be a leak at the brake booster.
Could this be related to the problems i'm having?
Repair/replace and retest
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@r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) you were right there is a knock. By the looks of it.. its the exhaust.
Could this be causing the rattle vibration in the dash??
Lately with the kids in the car i think the exhaust is hitting my drive when leaving the garage.
How can i sort this??
[vid]http://daz.co/video/20160113_132514.mp4[/vid]
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@dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) Yes mate, this will cause rattling so what you will need to do is find out why you're getting the knocking. whether it's a perished rubber or broken bracket. :happy2:
Also you've checked the dog mount??
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@dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) Yes mate, this will cause rattling so what you will need to do is find out why you're getting the knocking. whether it's a perished rubber or broken bracket. :happy2:
Also you've checked the dog mount??
Thanks mate will get under there later. Hopefully this is it. I don't feel like doing the DMF as the moment.
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Had a look under. The exhaust does not seem to be touching the heat shield, with the engine cover on i cannot seem to get it to knock. So i doubt idling would cause it to knock.
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Hmm??? did you say you checked you're dog mount for perishing as that's the only other thing I can think of that would cause play and vibration in the cabin.
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Hmm??? did you say you checked you're dog mount for perishing as that's the only other thing I can think of that would cause play and vibration in the cabin.
The dog bone mount looks ok. The bushes on the ARB look slightly perished.
If it was the mount why would it only do it with the foot on the brake??
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That's when the engine will shake the most as this is what I had with my gti when I bought it thinking it was the dsg and paying VW £145 for nothing the fools couldn't even find a simple fault like that :mad: and fobbed me off with nothing is wrong.
There's a video on there that shows a knackered mount.
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167795
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Don't know what to do with this now. Check/change the engine mounts??
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I removed my gearbox mount in under 10 minutes. so it's not a difficult job and you've got a garage to work in so it should be a breeze. Just remember to put a jack under the gearbox with a block of wood as support so the box doesn't drop down. jack up to the point it holds it up. and then undo all the bolts. remove and check.
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As usual i'm hunting for problems that no one else notices. :stupid:
Is this to much play in the DMF?? Could this be causing the vibration/noise i am having?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fimages%2F20160115_181910_resized.jpg&hash=07264b3ea9fe5a8f3ed0c63b87ba486ed64e30ca)
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There's a tolerance of 15 mm but having said this I wouldn't go by side to side movement IMHO and experience on these as it's uaually in and out play we'd go by.
The only way to determine fault is to remove the box and check for play in and out which I would say there can be hence causing the vibration.
I was talking to a friend about this not long ago and he asked me if the flywheel has every been replaced?.
If not then it will need replacing in the near future because if there's a vibration and all other avenues have been exhauated and no where else to be found then its the flywheel.
the only real way to check for play is removing the box.
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There's a tolerance of 15 mm but having said this I wouldn't go by side to side movement IMHO and experience on these as it's uaually in and out play we'd go by.
The only way to determine fault is to remove the box and check for play in and out which I would say there can be hence causing the vibration.
I was talking to a friend about this not long ago and he asked me if the flywheel has every been replaced?.
If not then it will need replacing in the near future because if there's a vibration and all other avenues have been exhauated and no where else to be found then its the flywheel.
the only real way to check for play is removing the box.
I doubt the flywheel has been replaced, cant find any info in the service book or receipts.
She's on about 146 000 km.
I will leave this one for now and change the clutch on my other car if that goes smoothy i may attempt having a look at this.
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I replaced my clutch kit on my audi tt mk1 and believe it or not there was not a slightest bit of play in it at 115000 miles but I replaced it for piece of mind anyway lol
Just replace it when you're sure you need to and the vibration is intolerable as I myself am OCD with these little niggly issue.
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I replaced my clutch kit on my audi tt mk1 and believe it or not there was not a slightest bit of play in it at 115000 miles but I replaced it for piece of mind anyway lol
Just replace it when you're sure you need to and the vibration is intolerable as I myself am OCD with these little niggly issue.
Knowing my luck i will change it and have the same problem. :rolleye:
Will focus on the other car for now as i think its going to fail soon.
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I'm sure you'll be fine after replacing it along with the dual clutch packs buy not cheap mind.
Here's my gearbox mounting :surprised:
Seriously you wouldn't believe it but it moved the same way yours did on your video but once off the car this is how much play it had. couldn't upload the video in photobucket before but now uploaded so I thought I'd show you.
http://vid1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag433/Sandy1786/Mobile%20Uploads/20160115_145648.mp4
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I'm sure you'll be fine after replacing it along with the dual clutch packs buy not cheap mind.
Here's my gearbox mounting :surprised:
Seriously you wouldn't believe it but it moved the same way yours did on your video but once off the car this is how much play it had. couldn't upload the video in photobucket before but now uploaded so I thought I'd show you.
Do you have a vid of the new one? Was it a lot stiffer??
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I couldn't move the new one with my strength so didn't bother with a video and yes it was very stiff.
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I couldn't move the new one with my strength so didn't bother with a video and yes it was very stiff.
Thanks mate another video showing the movement in the dogbone you can also see the bolt in the dogbone bush move, all i'm doing is selecting D R N P. Don't know if this amount on movement is normal. Although i've changed the cam chain, tension and adjustor still think my car sounds like a diesel.
[vid]http://daz.co/video/20160116_131511_001.mp4[/vid]
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Tbh I'm not sure it that's normal or not. Seem to be moving quite a lot though. I'd recommend a powerflex insert as I did with mine to prevent such movement.
Have the two bushes ever been replaced?.
Do you have an insert in there. Bolt looks like it's moving excessively tbh.
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Tbh I'm not sure it that's normal or not. Seem to be moving quite a bit though.
Have the two bushes ever been replaced?.
Do you have an insert in there?.
Don't think anything has been replaced, no insert either. I think the gearbox mount is like yours i had a little look at it yesterday when i took the starter motor out. The gear box mount is easy the dog bone not so much as i don't have a press and the sub frame would need to come out.
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Tbh I'm not sure it that's normal or not. Seem to be moving quite a bit though.
Have the two bushes ever been replaced?.
Do you have an insert in there?.
Don't think anything has been replaced, no insert either. I think the gearbox mount is like yours i had a little look at it yesterday when i took the starter motor out. The gear box mount is easy the dog bone not so much as i don't have a press and the sub frame would need to come out.
I'd replace both mounts. The dog mount is a pita to do as the bolt is usually seized in the mount. I struggled with a breaker bar and plenty of maintenance spray :scared: don't ever want to do one of those again ever ever ever!!!
You can snap the bolt in if your not careful. my car was on a ramp when I replaced it. It's not fun so anyone tell you different is talking poop :sick: air gun yeah whatever as it just makes your hand vibrate back and forth. Refitted the bolt is a piece of cake as it doesn't have to go as far as the huge washer and smaller washer that comes with the the insert act as spacers.
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So you replaced the mount or just added the insert? Wouldn't the mount be ok just the bushing that is bad?
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Don't worry about taking the old bushing out as the insert will act as an in between so reduce the play in the mount.
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Don't worry about taking the old bushing out as the insert will act as an in between so reduce the play in the mount.
So just an insert in needed and some new bolts? No need to change the mount.
Still think its the DMF i'm sure i can hear pebbles in a can by the gearbox. But my engine is so noisy its hard to tell.
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So you replaced the mount or just added the insert? Wouldn't the mount be ok just the bushing that is bad?
The arm itself would be fine but the rubber in the round bushes will be worn out but once the insert has be fitted you don't have to worry about these for many years.
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Here's my insert.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1374.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag433%2FSandy1786%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F20151231_161945.jpg&hash=3d81cfef9171c994f4dbc0f3ca70ff999159a55b)
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Don't worry about taking the old bushing out as the insert will act as an in between so reduce the play in the mount.
So just an insert in needed and some new bolts? No need to change the mount.
Still think its the DMF i'm sure i can hear pebbles in a can by the gearbox. But my engine is so noisy its hard to tell.
dazza, imho mate. I'd replace all the bushes and mounts as mentioned where they have perished or weak and wait for the dmf to have excessive wear or play and then worry about that but get the basics sorted out. :smiley:
You can get a new bolt as it's better to have one available to hand as they do seize into the top bush.
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What about one of these?
Don't know how the ride compares to an insert.
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5082.msg77924.html#msg77924
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Sounds like something I'd buy if I had a spare few £1000 but 10 x the price of an insert :surprised:
Our dsg are more prone to wear as we're always on out brakes releasing braking releasing etc etc so something to think about with the link you sent of the VWR. if you can spare the cash then go for it :happy2:
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Sounds like something I'd buy if I had a spare few £1000 but 10 x the price of an insert :surprised:
Our dsg are more prone to wear as we're always on out brakes releasing braking releasing etc etc so something to think about with the link you sent of the VWR. if you can spare the cash then go for it :happy2:
If it would stop the rattle i would buy it. Going to take another look at the exhaust first. I would probably get the Vibratechnics mount rather than the VWR.
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Been told that the engine movement and DMF play is fine.
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Oh really, that's good news right???.
Vibratechnics :jumping: You may as well go the whole hog and get the full kit once and for all?.
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Oh really, that's good news right???.
I suppose but whats the causing the noise/vibration?
Vibratechnics :jumping: You may as well go the whole hog and get the full kit once and for all?.
Unluckily for me handling mods were put on hold as my car bottoms out on my drive at stock height. :sad1:
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Oh really, that's good news right???.
I suppose but whats the causing the noise/vibration?
Vibratechnics :jumping: You may as well go the whole hog and get the full kit once and for all?.
Unluckily for me handling mods were put on hold as my car bottoms out on my drive at stock height. :sad1:
I was referring to just the engine and box mounts so I think it's four in total. two for the doggy bone and one gearbox and one engine right hand side. :happy2:
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TBH i'm happy with the ride now, if i could stop this little rattle it would be great. And hopefully at a later date i can get some power and handling mods done. :driver:
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Shame I wasn't there to actually hear the noise for myself lol
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Shame I wasn't there to actually hear the noise for myself lol
Yep bit isolated here, would go to the local VW but they didn't know what a camfollower was.
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cam follower what's that :rolleye: :stupid: :signLOL:
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cam follower what's that :rolleye: :stupid: :signLOL:
But fair play to them it could have been due to my dodgy Spanish. The parts guy often comments on the bits i've ordered (never seen one of them before).
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That's because no one wants to buy parts from them :signLOL: or yours is the only gti he's ever dealt with :smiley:
Where are you located?.
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Don't think people look after their cars as good here. Which could have something to do with it.
I'm in Barcelona.
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oh wow I thought you were UK based hahaha now I see why the guy on the parts says he's never seen a cam follower before :signLOL:
Hello from england. :happy2:
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Thought I should probably update this since I originally started it aha!
Anyway, since I posted this I've had my alternator and air con compressor replaced and the noise in the video (the one that isn't too obvious. Could hear it in person more) has gone.
The alternator bearings were shot and sounded horrible. Brand new one in now.
As for the air con compressor, well I seem to have blown something up inside of it. Was driving the car, put my foot down and something went bang. When speaking to the guy that fitted the new compressor, and he said he found lots of metal fragments in it!? Oh man, it made a horrible noise driving it home!
The car sounds much better now. Still a few noises/issues that I need to sort though. Anyway, carry on with the discussion above. Just thought I'd let everyone know aha!
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Glad you've sorted thay one out and getting closer to sorting out all your car woes mate :happy2:
oh and sorry about the thread jacking :ashamed: