MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Track Day Technical => Topic started by: Mattvwgti on December 15, 2015, 09:49:18 am
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Hi Guys,
Im looking at turning my 07 Gti into a trackday car next year and possibly doing some sprints with it. Im currently racing karts but MSA regs are starting to sway my mind to doing trackdays etc next year! Already done a couple at combe and loved it and the car seemed OK for a fairly standard car!
The current spec is:
Ramair Oversized induction kit
Milltek Cat-Back system
Stage 1 remap
Front EBC Redstuff Pads and EBC USR slotted front discs - Seemed to fade after 10 mins!
Standard rear brakes
Standard Suspension
So, What Im wondering is what would be essential to make this car abit of a 'Weapon' on track!? Iv already bought some 18" TD 1.2's. And thinking about S3 front caliper's, Pagid RS Pads and EBC Discs, then uprated rear discs and pads, Im unsure on what suspension to go for and what tyres would be best suited? Also thinking of stripping the interior if I do get a daily car!
Thanks In Advance!
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The S3 brakes are great on the road. Have a big initial bite but don't offer much modulation in the befall, being one big piston. Huge weight too which isn't the best for handling.
They do fade quickly on Trackdays (in my experience) however if you're sticking to sprint days where you're only doing 2 or so laps max at a time then that might be upto the job with decent lines/pads/fluid. Great value for money if they manage what you throw at them.
I try and do a few Trackdays a year, work permitting and have tried quite a few brake setups (car came with s3 brakes from factory) and in my opinion if you are making an out and out performance car it would be worth saving for a 'propper' big brake kit. There's loads of choice.
There's a great choice of performance road and also road legal semi slick tyres too. If allowed in the sprint day regs you could even buy used full slicks!
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Coilovers. ARBs.
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You will want some TTRS brakes with good (expensive) pads.
I did a trackday with Pagid RS4-2. I was one of the quicker cars on the day and my brakes didn't fade at all.
Did get a lot of pad build up which was hideous so I would recommend pagid rs29 or project mu pads.
rs4-2s aren't getting a vote again.
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A decent clutch
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You will want some TTRS brakes with good (expensive) pads.
I did a trackday with Pagid RS4-2. I was one of the quicker cars on the day and my brakes didn't fade at all.
Did get a lot of pad build up which was hideous so I would recommend pagid rs29 or project mu pads.
rs4-2s aren't getting a vote again.
What's the piston surface area like on the TTRS ones (for the stock MC)? How does the pedal feel?
I'm looking to upgrade to the rs3 MC. So that it is 'propper' in respect to the fluid dynamics. The pedal does feel decent however on stock MC and GT seniors.
Have to agree about the blues gave me a right headache, for the money too! :fighting: great stopping power but has left me with terrible judder.
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Love my pedal on the TTRS stock. Nice and short and firm. But it's still perfectly progressive enough for daily use even with aggressive pads.
I do have vcds servo assistance set to 2 also which helps a bit.
from Dave B on another forum
40/44mm
Equates to a 60mm single piston size
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:happy2: :happy2:
I want to swap the blues for yellows
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yeah me too :D
although alex wants me to get some pmu's lol.
am a bit annoyed with the pagid blues.
because they've been given relative hell and still have about half pad life left.
just the deposit issue.
aside from that, wet/cold/hot performance is brilliance.
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RS42 are wank
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Hi Guys,
Im looking at turning my 07 Gti into a trackday car next year and possibly doing some sprints with it. Im currently racing karts but MSA regs are starting to sway my mind to doing trackdays etc next year! Already done a couple at combe and loved it and the car seemed OK for a fairly standard car!
The current spec is:
Ramair Oversized induction kit
Milltek Cat-Back system
Stage 1 remap
Front EBC Redstuff Pads and EBC USR slotted front discs - Seemed to fade after 10 mins!
Standard rear brakes
Standard Suspension
So, What Im wondering is what would be essential to make this car abit of a 'Weapon' on track!? Iv already bought some 18" TD 1.2's. And thinking about S3 front caliper's, Pagid RS Pads and EBC Discs, then uprated rear discs and pads, Im unsure on what suspension to go for and what tyres would be best suited? Also thinking of stripping the interior if I do get a daily car!
Thanks In Advance!
Sell it as is, save half the money and buy a Clio 182 with the other half. A friend has one and I reckon it's closer to useful on track in stock form than a Golf is by a long chalk and WAY cheaper to get the right parts on and maintain for track thereafter being so light.
That's not meant to be a flippant comment, I was shocked at how little his is costing to prep and how little work he actually needs to do.
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Thanks for the response people! so the rs3 or TTRS Setup with project MU pads would be a spot on option? what would 4 pot Porsche brakes be like?
I have thought about selling it but iv got abit of an attachment to the car. :stupid: I know, haha...in terms of what it will cost me labour that will be 0 due to being able to do everything myself and used to work for a VW Dealer so am still in the circle to get parts a little under rrp for most things! A clutch is another thing on my mind, but will most likely get replaced when it falls apart lol and isit worth while the box is out putting an LSD in aswell?
Also may be doing ARDS At somepoint next year, so would like to move it on a step in a few years if that happened!
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After the S3 / Cupra brake option, theres a selection of available Porsche calipers available;
The rear calipers from the 987/987 Boxter (4 pot monoblock) has come to be known as the 'NQSBBK' ~ "Not quite so big brake kit"
Super lightweight, uses oem 312mm rotors and big selection of pads. The big unsprung weight saving has a big positive effect on handling. Not the most powerful though
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13985.0.html
The 996 Turbo 4 pot calipers are a fair bit bigger, use 350mm amg merc discs. A bit more impressive looking, a fair bit more potent and again a big pad choice.
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,42137.0.html
Up from that is the Aston DB9 / Ford GT caliper with AP racing 362mm 2 piece rotors form AKS Tuning
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,87310.0.html
Theeeeen there is the Brembo GT Senior & 370mm 2 piece rotor kit again form AKS
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,68533.0.html
That's before you look at Alcon and Tarox kits! ~ As you can tell Ive got a thing for decent brakes!
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13742.0.html
@rex (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2615) Has had put the NQSBBK to more use than I did mine.
(Ill dig out some links to the reviews of some of the kits in a min)
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Oh Wow, didn't realise there were so many options outside oem vag stuff! Abit of minefield isn't it lol
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After the S3 / Cupra brake option, theres a selection of available Porsche calipers available;
The rear calipers from the 987/987 Boxter (4 pot monoblock) has come to be known as the 'NQSBBK' ~ "Not quite so big brake kit"
Super lightweight, uses oem 312mm rotors and big selection of pads. The big unsprung weight saving has a big positive effect on handling. Not the most powerful though
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13985.0.html
The 996 Turbo 4 pot calipers are a fair bit bigger, use 350mm amg merc discs. A bit more impressive looking, a fair bit more potent and again a big pad choice.
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,42137.0.html
Up from that is the Aston DB9 / Ford GT caliper with AP racing 362mm 2 piece rotors form AKS Tuning
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,87310.0.html
Theeeeen there is the Brembo GT Senior & 370mm 2 piece rotor kit again form AKS
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,68533.0.html
That's before you look at Alcon and Tarox kits! ~ As you can tell Ive got a thing for decent brakes!
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13742.0.html
@rex (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2615) Has had put the NQSBBK to more use than I did mine.
(Ill dig out some links to the reviews of some of the kits in a min)
Are the NQSBBK brakes good enough for a starter? Cant really afford to spend silly money on big kits but these look like they could be a good upgrade from standard gti and even s3/r32 brakes!? These with braided hoses, ebc USR discs and pagid pads would still be a good upgrade for trackdays?
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They where upto hooning around the forest lanes in Germany. I can't remember if I did a Trackday on them. I think I sold them to @berg (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2152)
The nqsbbk made the car feel very notably more nimble but I was comparing to the Heavy Cupra/S3 brakes before them
@rex (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2615) has used his nqsbbk lots on track. Quite a few on here have the nqsbbk, I'd expect someone to be along soon to advise.
The 996 turbo kit was quite good on track and can be put together fairly cheaply.
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Ahh ok brilliant mate! And can they? What am I looking at for prices on both kits roughly? Would I need to run spacers to accomdate the larger 996 kit?
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I think all that info should be in my review post ^^ if not a quick search will sort you out, if you get stuck give me a nudge (y)
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Thanks Mike, appreciated! il do some research and decide what im going to go for! What suspension have you been running on your leon for trackdays? as I found mine very nervous on the rear end mid corner or is that something that with these chassis you don't get rid of and just have to learn to drive with?
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Don't waste your money on Pagid pads..
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I have bilstein pss10 coilovers. The car handles brilliantly but I've also done a lot of other chassis mods
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After the S3 / Cupra brake option, theres a selection of available Porsche calipers available;
The rear calipers from the 987/987 Boxter (4 pot monoblock) has come to be known as the 'NQSBBK' ~ "Not quite so big brake kit"
Super lightweight, uses oem 312mm rotors and big selection of pads. The big unsprung weight saving has a big positive effect on handling. Not the most powerful though
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13985.0.html
The 996 Turbo 4 pot calipers are a fair bit bigger, use 350mm amg merc discs. A bit more impressive looking, a fair bit more potent and again a big pad choice.
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,42137.0.html
Up from that is the Aston DB9 / Ford GT caliper with AP racing 362mm 2 piece rotors form AKS Tuning
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,87310.0.html
Theeeeen there is the Brembo GT Senior & 370mm 2 piece rotor kit again form AKS
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,68533.0.html
That's before you look at Alcon and Tarox kits! ~ As you can tell Ive got a thing for decent brakes!
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13742.0.html
@rex (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2615) Has had put the NQSBBK to more use than I did mine.
(Ill dig out some links to the reviews of some of the kits in a min)
I think you can add to that list the Touareg/Q7/Cayenne calipers as well, with 350 mm MB ML450 discs. It was cheaper to get and doesn't require spacers with some wheels (I have OZ Ultras, for example). Plenty of choice pads and discs wise (from cheap to expensive).
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5830375-Brembo-18Z-6-piston-brake-upgrade.-DIY-BBK-write-up.-Big-brakes-for-under-a-grand (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5830375-Brembo-18Z-6-piston-brake-upgrade.-DIY-BBK-write-up.-Big-brakes-for-under-a-grand)
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Ahh right ok thanks, im using 18" ET45 Team Dynamics Pro race 1.2 so not sure if im onna need spacers if I go any bigger than the 'NQSBBK'....ahh ok mike, not sure what im gonna go for yet! Toss up between Bilsteins, KW and along those lines of manufactures.
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Ahh right ok thanks, im using 18" ET45 Team Dynamics Pro race 1.2 so not sure if im onna need spacers if I go any bigger than the 'NQSBBK'....ahh ok mike, not sure what im gonna go for yet! Toss up between Bilsteins, KW and along those lines of manufactures.
AFAIK you might not need with TTRS/RS3 calipers and TTRS 370 mm discs and with Brembos 18Z for the less expensive bigger options. With TTRS/RS3 calipers and TTS 340 mm discs I think you still need small spacers.
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you will need 5mm spacers with the ttrs caliper and 340/345mm setup with team dynamics 1.2
fit fine with my OZ s.
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So 350mm disc's with the likes of maybe the brembo 18z would fit ok with the 1.2's?
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So 350mm disc's with the likes of maybe the brembo 18z would fit ok with the 1.2's?
I can't confirm that, it's just a guess since the 18Z fit under OZ Ultraleggeras (barely) without requiring spacers. If required I would guess you'd need like 2-3 mm, tops.
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Hello and Happy New Year!
The NQSBBK is composed of Porsche Boxster/Cayman 987/986 FRONT calipers ( @Tfsi_Mike (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=293) )
@DaveB@Vagbremtechnic intended the kit to be a better alternative to the OEM setup. I think he ticked all the boxes, but it was not intended to be an all out track day kit (although it will do this better than the OEM setup).
I use my kit for both trackdays and daily drive. I am using the following setup: the usual NQSBBK Porsche calipers, HEL brake lines (comes with the kit), Brembo Custom J-Hook Rotors (from Dave as well), Pagid RS-29 pads, custom brake ducts: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59104.0.html.
With this setup I have no fade after two 20 minute consecutive sessions at Hungaroring (and I brake like crazy). But I only have 160bhp! I doubt the kit will work this good on a 2.0 TFSI car.
Regarding brake clearance, I use 16 inch alloys in the winter.
Hope this helps!
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Can't reply to any of the threads on the 996tt calipers but I assume these will be for 18s minium and wouldn't have a hope of fitting over standard 17" monzas on a mk5 Gti?
Reason being I have a set of 996tt calipers as well as a set of 986 boxster S calipers spare from other projects on my BMWs.
Would be nice to be able to squeeze on the turbo calipers but it's my Mrs car and needs to be able to still use the 17s as the country roads where we live aren't great in places and 18s would sacrifice too much comfort.