MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Chris92 on February 21, 2016, 05:33:55 pm
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Anyone driven any mk2 focus's st or rs? Is it even possible to get our 2.0 tfsi's to feel that surge/push back when we accelarate like how it feels in the st/rs? Just driven my mates r tech stage2+ mk6 r and although it very quick it doesn't really feel it to me, I'd like a little more push back kind of thing when flooring the go pedal.
Can r tech add this in?
Surely there isn't as much point in a liner map as it's all wheel drive, I can see the point on fwd.
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Sorry I meant mk3 st comes in at 250 hp which is probably why it kicks the way it does and also why there are no front tyres left within a few thousand miles :signLOL:
Cars got loads of torque Atlow end but it's not what it seems as I've test drove many of them 07 08 plates are totally sh*te unless you pour ££££'s into it. the 12 plates 14 plates are any better for the price when I was working at my last dealership and the power delivery just kills the car- clutch-tyres quicker.
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You new to try a KO4 car, a stage 2+ eddy for example will make around 370bhp, that is way more than a normal GTI will ever make. Think a KO3 GTI will make about 300 at stage 2+ ? The tuning potential between K03 and 04 is night and day.
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Mk2 focus st's are 222bhp :wink:
Ok but I was driving a 370bhp golf r and it just doesn't feel that quick were as you get a say like a rs and it just feel far more meaty and powerfull even tho it isn't as fast. I'd just like a little more feel I'm not saying I want anything crazy and manic.
I was driving a k04 :rolleye: read the full thing ha
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Mk2 focus st's are 222bhp :wink:
Ok but I was driving a 370bhp golf r and it just doesn't feel that quick were as you get a say like a rs and it just feel far more meaty and powerfull even tho it isn't as fast. I'd just like a little more feel I'm not saying I want anything crazy and manic.
I was driving a k04 :rolleye: read the full thing ha
Oops I was thinking the mk3 :signLOL: mk2 isn't what it seems but llok good and sound great but I chose the golf tfsi over the st as the golf has more tuning potential and 300bhp for a ko3 is awesome in comparison to the st.
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You'll do really well to get a real 300bhp reliably from a k03.
Late 280s is more realistic.
But it's not hard to swap to a hybrid k03 or k04 and smash through the 300bhp mark.
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Sorry, yea didn't read it and engage brain
From what I hear the RS have quite a punch to their delivery, R-Tech are famous for making smooth maps, you should maybe try something mapped to 370 but with more of a punchy delivery. My eddy is 2+ with revo and has a mighty kick !, I have taken a RS owner out in my car and he thought it was a wild thing and would melt tires quicker than his car !. I personally wanted a revo map for that punch, others want linear maps. I find them less exciting. Give a revo car car a try :jumpmove:
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Golf R is 4WD. This really numbs the power delivery. Stage 2 Eddy will give that surge.
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I reckon it'd be better to have a 330bhp car with a smooth map than a 300bhp with a thumpy map. (Numbers plucked out of the air for the sake of the argument by the way).
Especially when you consider what your clutch and internals are going through with big aggressive dollops of torque.
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You'll do really well to get a real 300bhp reliably from a k03.
Late 280s is more realistic.
But it's not hard to swap to a hybrid k03 or k04 and smash through the 300bhp mark.
That's when it gets really :stupid: as it's not awd and would lack traction big time. not that it doesn't do thay anyways. 280bhp is still better than 200 standard :grin: but 330 and more is something I wouldn't even bother with unless she's an awd IMHO.
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I reckon it'd be better to have a 330bhp car with a smooth map than a 300bhp with a thumpy map. (Numbers plucked out of the air for the sake of the argument by the way).
Especially when you consider what your clutch and internals are going through with big aggressive dollops of torque.
Depends on what you want I guess. I don't care about numbers but do know how fast a car 'feels', and a aggressive delivery feels fast, as per the original post regarding the RS. I don't doubt if I was driving on the track a linear map would be most affective, but on the road something with a hard delivery feels quick, even popping to the shops when you don't have the space to open it up through the revs, that big thump mid range can be accessed easily and puts a big grin on your face every time.
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You'll do really well to get a real 300bhp reliably from a k03.
Late 280s is more realistic.
But it's not hard to swap to a hybrid k03 or k04 and smash through the 300bhp mark.
That's when it gets really :stupid: as it's not awd and would lack traction big time. not that it doesn't do thay anyways. 280bhp is still better than 200 standard :grin:
Hehe, yeah true mate. Guess it depends how you drive it. I gave up on the idea of getting a good standing start long ago, even before going Stage 1 in fact. 1st and 2nd are useless at WOT, even on MPSS. But...
I feel there's plenty of room for improvement in terms of 'in gear' driving, 3rd and 4th especially. I'm at around 260bhp and 310lb/ft on a k03 and it's so nice to drive; really responsive, but you can really feel the little k03 running out of steam at mid to high revs.
At 2+ you're really stretching the k03 and running it at the edge of its comfort zone...
And that's what's got me thinking about a k03 hybrid, set up with a sensible map that isn't asking the world of the hardware.
If you get a chance, have a read of dansmith's thread.
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Very true 1st n 2nd gears are or will be useless :signLOL: That's why 4wd is best for highly torqued vehicles.
Also true on how we use this power. I find 200ps is absolutely shi** and need more to get me to :drool: if I do get the chance I will defo turbo back fmic and stage 2 it for too end power delivery as poxy cars seen to be able to pull away quicker than the tfsi :signLOL: wish I'd kept the beast :sad1: no one wanted to fu** with me on the roads :driver: apart from the new cupra R and an estate RS4 which was wicked blasting down the M25 and M1 :grin: They certainly showed me what power was though :rolleye:
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Sorry, yea didn't read it and engage brain
From what I hear the RS have quite a punch to their delivery, R-Tech are famous for making smooth maps, you should maybe try something mapped to 370 but with more of a punchy delivery. My eddy is 2+ with revo and has a mighty kick !, I have taken a RS owner out in my car and he thought it was a wild thing and would melt tires quicker than his car !. I personally wanted a revo map for that punch, others want linear maps. I find them less exciting. Give a revo car car a try :jumpmove:
Yes same I just find smooth maps very boring, want something a little more punchy but nothing that goes like this....nothing nothing nothing BANG all guns blazing kind of thing. Think your right I need a go in a revo mapped car.
I've been stuck between a rs and mk6 r for a couple of years now but after driving the 370bhp r I'm sold on it (minus the delivery).
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I did dabble with the idea of seeing if R-Tech could produce a more punchy map, like Revo, but that doesn't seem to be their thing and they pride themselves on smooth delivery, so thought cut out the middle man and just go Revo. Also thought it might sound odd calling R-Tech and saying can you do a map the same as Revo :grin:
I run boost resetting 9, which is the most aggressive, but have the sps switch so it can be turned down if I wanted. i can't fault Revo. Love it. :happy2:
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How to apr write there maps, are the like revo more aggressive? Just looking on there site and they offer a stage 1+ map with the hpfp added. That'd be great for a while as I save for the other hardware. Should also add I know you can't adjust the apr maps like the revo.
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I am pretty sure APR would be more like Revo than R-Tech, so def a option.
You can't adjust perameters of the APR map, you can switch between standard and mapped but not adjust elements of the map. I.e. You can't increase or decrease the boost delivery for example.
From what I have read APR will def be more what you want.
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I am pretty sure APR would be more like Revo than R-Tech, so def a option.
You can't adjust perameters of the APR map, you can switch between standard and mapped but not adjust elements of the map. I.e. You can't increase or decrease the boost delivery for example.
From what I have read APR will def be more what you want.
Yeah I read you can't alter the map like revo but was interested in how the power feels with apr. Apr are a lot closer to me, nearest revo is just under 2 hours drive. Suppose I've got plenty of time to think, I just wanted to check if you can have the power delivery a little more exciting and it seems you can so just need to find myself a tasty r :driver:
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You could have just asked Nicky at R-Tech to do you a more aggressive map if that's what you wanted. I'm fairly certain members on here have asked for the same already.
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I'm going to email them and ask, I'd prefer r tech as I know il be getting a bespoke map to my engine and getting every last pony from my hardware but if not il go with revo most likely.
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i would think Nick at r tech would be able to map the car how you want it
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i would think Nick at r tech would be able to map the car how you want it
Second that! Plus it would be cheaper than Revo if you wanted a map similar to theirs.
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I'm going to email them and ask, I'd prefer r tech as I know il be getting a bespoke map to my engine and getting every last pony from my hardware but if not il go with revo most likely.
Would be interested to hear what you get back, as I say I dabled with the idea but Revo is local to me and got a good discount from them.
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I pinged R-Tech to ask regarding a more aggressive map....
Quite surprised by the response, I will stick to Revo
Hi
We do not offer aggressive maps for these models we use smooth power
delivery as the turbo has a surge point and when going aggressive can cause
it to be very surgy , linear throttle mapping is the way we tune .
Regards R-Tech performance
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Have you a GIAC dealer there? It is more aggressive than APR. With a GIAC stage 1 tune(just a drop in filter) I was beating APR stage 2(intake and DP) guys in the 1/4mi. But a HPFP upgrade is how to get the most from a K03 if willing to deal with the cam follower replacements every 10k to 15k miles. A K04 is even better...or K04 hybrid.
I also have/run tunes by DriverMotorsport...but think it impossible for you to obtain there:
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i'd say quite a lot of the punchiness in the ST and RS is due to turbo lag. they have quite a lot of it. whilst the GTI's have hardly any.
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When I got my Ed30 it was already Revo'd and felt super punchy. Had an R-tech style custom map done (with linear throttle) and it's nowhere near as thumpy, but makes more power on the dyno. Like the OP, I'd rather have the punch.
I am defo getting the linear throttle map removed as it's horrible. I really don't get the hype around that at all.
The thing with K03 & K04s is they do spool up bloody quick. It depends how aggressively the mappers set the N75 valve control. Make it slack and the turbo spikes like mad and over-boost failsafes kick in (huge flat spot), have too tight a control on it and feels too linear and boring.... it's a tricky balance to get right.
Don't forget the ST has a 500cc advantage over the TFSI when making a comparison. A lot of extra exhaust gas to spin the turbo with.
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When I got my Ed30 it was already Revo'd and felt super punchy. Had an R-tech style custom map done (with linear throttle) and it's nowhere near as thumpy, but makes more power on the dyno. Like the OP, I'd rather have the punch.
I am defo getting the linear throttle map removed as it's horrible. I really don't get the hype around that at all.
The thing with K03 & K04s is they do spool up bloody quick. It depends how aggressively the mappers set the N75 valve control. Make it slack and the turbo spikes like mad and over-boost failsafes kick in (huge flat spot), have too tight a control on it and feels too linear and boring.... it's a tricky balance to get right.
Don't forget the ST has a 500cc advantage over the TFSI when making a comparison. A lot of extra exhaust gas to spin the turbo with.
You going back to Revo then Pudding ?, Revo do a good (30 or 40%) discount if you are switching from another tuner. I had bluefin and got a very welcome discount from Revo.
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When I got my Ed30 it was already Revo'd and felt super punchy. Had an R-tech style custom map done (with linear throttle) and it's nowhere near as thumpy, but makes more power on the dyno. Like the OP, I'd rather have the punch.
I am defo getting the linear throttle map removed as it's horrible. I really don't get the hype around that at all.
The thing with K03 & K04s is they do spool up bloody quick. It depends how aggressively the mappers set the N75 valve control. Make it slack and the turbo spikes like mad and over-boost failsafes kick in (huge flat spot), have too tight a control on it and feels too linear and boring.... it's a tricky balance to get right.
Don't forget the ST has a 500cc advantage over the TFSI when making a comparison. A lot of extra exhaust gas to spin the turbo with.
You going back to Revo then Pudding ?, Revo do a good (30 or 40%) discount if you are switching from another tuner. I had bluefin and got a very welcome discount from Revo.
Oh really? I didn't realise that. Their map is quite pricey to begin with (compared to rivals), so that certainly makes it more palatable! I'm considering it tbh but it really bothers me that I need to buy an SPS switch to get the map back if I disconnect the battery!!
The other thing holding me back is the car's age. Coming up to 100K, hasn't been decoked, chassis feels a bit tired.... it's just so much cash to chuck at it!
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Can often pick up a sps cheap on eBay. Any Revo dealer will put the settings back after a battery disconnect for free. As you say, I guess any remap has got to be weighed up against other costs you might have pending.
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Can you not just bull them and say it's got another tuners map on so you can get a discount? :grin: :grin: or can they detect it
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I just showed the reciept from the Superchips map. :happy2:
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There's a 'flash count' anyone with VCDS can check. OEM it = 0. When the car has been mapped, it goes up by 1 each time and cannot be reset. Mine's at about 20 :grin: Was a long day on the dyno!
Can also be proven with VCDS logs. Requested boost will be about 1.4 bar vs 0.9 bar (Ed30). Rail pressure requests are around 120bar too, OEM is around 105 iirc.
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The Revo dealer didn't do any of that, I know the guy and he just said provide me a copy of the invoice from the old map, he just applied the discount. There was no need to prove flash counts etc.