MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: gunnellgti on April 15, 2016, 11:58:51 am
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Hi there, anybody know if the Gti and edition 30 intercoolers are the exact same size ? or is the 30 slightly bigger. An edition 30 one has come up very cheap wondering if its worth it at all to swap over. Thanks :smiley:
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I think they are the same, which is odd as the S3 with the same engine as the Ed30 gets a bigger one!
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@Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) Yeah thats why i was confused, thought the edition 30 would be the same.
Thanks mate
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We wish it was bigger, indeed. Put a TBE with sports cat (or decat), fit a bigger IC (S3 or bigger) and fit an upgraded HPFP (LOBA, APR, Autotech internals) and with a stock map you can see 270 BHP, which is the same as the S3 engine makes from factory.
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or keep your stock intercooler and add a twintercooler
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or keep your stock intercooler and add a twintercooler
Not sure if a S3 IC wouldn't be better due to the lag and pressure drop... Personally for what I know I'd choose a S3 IC over that option. For BT you can add a twintercooler to a S3 IC, I guess.
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or keep your stock intercooler and add a twintercooler
Not sure if a S3 IC wouldn't be better due to the lag and pressure drop... Personally for what I know I'd choose a S3 IC over that option. For BT you can add a twintercooler to a S3 IC, I guess.
Yeah I wondered about that too. Audi must have thought the same too, hence why it's only a little bit bigger (thicker I think) but is a better quality core and metal end tanks.
The GTI/ED30 cooler isn't too bad though, according to my intake temp data logging. Doesn't really start heat soaking until the 8th or 9th full throttle pull (mine's running 1.3 bar), and even then it's not much more than 20 above ambient. Pretty good as it's behind the A/C rad! I think the ECU starts pulling timing when IATs hit 45 deg.
A chargecooler would be nice for throttle response and more consistent intake temps, but it's a fair bit of work and expense.
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You benefit from the UK colder ambient temperatures. My THS copy from Darkside Developments is much better than the OEM IC. I'm running 1.4 bar at the moment.
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I agree. we should really need a a bigger fmic or a secondary cooler in Uk weather unless its the 3 days of summer we have and your doing a trackday or driving hard.
Its nice to feel the difference between stock and a larger/Additional cooler though
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What's the APR one like? I really like the look of their stuff, especially the cast downpipe!
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What's the APR one like? I really like the look of their stuff, especially the cast downpipe!
Expensive, but good quality. I'd buy another cheaper option or one in 2nd hand in good condition. You can get a Peron/Wagner/Airtec stage 2 and that will be enough for your K04 turbo.
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or keep your stock intercooler and add a twintercooler
Not sure if a S3 IC wouldn't be better due to the lag and pressure drop... Personally for what I know I'd choose a S3 IC over that option. For BT you can add a twintercooler to a S3 IC, I guess.
i have the airtec twin cooler. there is no noticeable increase in turbo lag from what i can feel
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This seems like great value and deeper than the S3 one -
http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/darkside-audi-s3-intercooler-with-alloy-end-tanks.html
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or keep your stock intercooler and add a twintercooler
Not sure if a S3 IC wouldn't be better due to the lag and pressure drop... Personally for what I know I'd choose a S3 IC over that option. For BT you can add a twintercooler to a S3 IC, I guess.
i have the airtec twin cooler. there is no noticeable increase in turbo lag from what i can feel
How is the fit? is there any bumper trimming?
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This seems like great value and deeper than the S3 one -
http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/darkside-audi-s3-intercooler-with-alloy-end-tanks.html
Honestly I don't know if the Darkside IC is better than any other Chinese THS replica sold on ebay for 160-170 £... :sad1:
I also needed to replace one coupler from one of the DsD hoses to fit the turbo discharge pipe. Fortunately Creations Motorsport sells the correct coupler. I might have had bad luck with my hoses, I'm not sure if everyone who bought them had that problem. When I returned the coupler to the UK the package got lost. :laugh:
The Post Office company returned me a good enough sum for me to be happy, since Darkside wasn't too willing to pay for my losses, just wanted to give me a voucher... :fighting:
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IMO, a 350 BHP Ed. 30 only needs a S3 IC. If you're looking for more than that (stage 2+), I'd save a bit more to get a Peron/Wagner/Airtec stage 2/Forge FMIC that cost around £ 550.
For a cheap upgrade the Chinese THS replicas seem good enough (I've seen people saying that they got 365 BHP with them, if I'm not mistaken). Mine from Darkside Developments was £ 300 with discount. The only advantage I can wonder they have over the S3 IC is that they cool very fast. At WOT the temps rise likewise. That was what my tuner said and he has a lot of experience with the S3 IC.
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I got a airtec stage 2 for £500 and was one of the best mods I did. It's a big job but worth it. With stock IC I lost 41 bhp on back to back dyno runs on stage 2+ which was useless! Soon as I got the airtec stage 2 I made 277 bhp and lost 1 bhp on back to back runs!
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I got a airtec stage 2 for £500 and was one of the best mods I did. It's a big job but worth it. With stock IC I lost 41 bhp on back to back dyno runs on stage 2+ which was useless! Soon as I got the airtec stage 2 I made 277 bhp and lost 1 bhp on back to back runs!
A K03 doesn't need more than a S3 IC. Ask Niki Gower about it. :wink:
The S3 IC has the size and the flow that compliment well the K03 performance. :smiley:
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I agree the K03, if tuned, should only need a larger oem location fmic or an additional twin cooler by Forge coupled with the oem fmic. If you upgrade the turbo to a K04 I'd suggest the S3 or other oem location fmic and if you run it hard for a good duration in a day from time to time...add an additional twin cooler. I have the Audi S3 coupled with the Forge twin cooler along with a K04. Boost-actual peaks within 600 to 700 rpm of the start of a 3rd gear pull when data is collected. I'd say no boost lag there. Any amount of throttle at any time is so very responsive as well. I run 12.8s 1/4 mile ET's all day at the track...so no heat-soak either. If I did long road track events I could comment and share those results, but I don't do that. Hoping to get into hill-climbs soon though :happy2:
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or keep your stock intercooler and add a twintercooler
Not sure if a S3 IC wouldn't be better due to the lag and pressure drop... Personally for what I know I'd choose a S3 IC over that option. For BT you can add a twintercooler to a S3 IC, I guess.
i have the airtec twin cooler. there is no noticeable increase in turbo lag from what i can feel
How is the fit? is there any bumper trimming?
a little bit around the fog light mounting for the hose's to clear but otherwise a very good fit
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I agree the K03, if tuned, should only need a larger oem location fmic or an additional twin cooler by Forge coupled with the oem fmic. If you upgrade the turbo to a K04 I'd suggest the S3 or other oem location fmic and if you run it hard for a good duration in a day from time to time...add an additional twin cooler. I have the Audi S3 coupled with the Forge twin cooler along with a K04. Boost-actual peaks within 600 to 700 rpm of the start of a 3rd gear pull when data is collected. I'd say no boost lag there. Any amount of throttle at any time is so very responsive as well. I run 12.8s 1/4 mile ET's all day at the track...so no heat-soak either. If I did long road track events I could comment and share those results, but I don't do that. Hoping to get into hill-climbs soon though :happy2:
Thanks for this.
I did think of one of the EBay OEM style coolers along with a ebay twintercooler (still cheaper than most on the market) thought this would futureproof me incase I ever decided to change to a BT setup.
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We wish it was bigger, indeed. Put a TBE with sports cat (or decat), fit a bigger IC (S3 or bigger) and fit an upgraded HPFP (LOBA, APR, Autotech internals) and with a stock map you can see 270 BHP, which is the same as the S3 engine makes from factory.
are you saying @Shoduchi (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10590) that the above parts fitted to a standard gti can produce an extra 70 bhp without having to Map it?.
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No way, you'd definitely need a map
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No way, you'd definitely need a map
@Paradox1 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9564) that's what I thought as how would fitting parts alter timing fuelling and air.
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Yeah that's it. you could have all the bolt on but would make any noticeable power I don't think.
As you know a map makes the biggest difference
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He's talking about the Ed30 - not the GTI
FYI the Darkside cooler is no different to the £170-200 china THS copies - work plenty fine on a K03 car. I have a china copy and mine and can hit peak boost below 3k rpm. What is totally overkill are the massive wellycoolers people fit. Be warned - china couplers do NOT fit. The best fitting one I have found is from SFS
The standard cooler is not good at all. 20 degrees C + above ambient is a LOT. Mine on WOT is always less than 10 degrees above ambient with the meth off (Still have a/c rad). Switch the meth on and its within 1-2 degrees either side of ambient.
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Mine on WOT is always less than 10 degrees above ambient with the meth off (Still have a/c rad). .
Even after 10 pulls to the redline on a 28 deg summer's day? I'm calling BS on that, pending VCDS logs as proof :smiley:
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He's talking about the Ed30 - not the GTI
FYI the Darkside cooler is no different to the £170-200 china THS copies - work plenty fine on a K03 car. I have a china copy and mine and can hit peak boost below 3k rpm. What is totally overkill are the massive wellycoolers people fit. Be warned - china couplers do NOT fit. The best fitting one I have found is from SFS
The standard cooler is not good at all. 20 degrees C + above ambient is a LOT. Mine on WOT is always less than 10 degrees above ambient with the meth off (Still have a/c rad). Switch the meth on and its within 1-2 degrees either side of ambient.
How is your meth nozzle setup?
TB spacer or Throttle body pipe?
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We wish it was bigger, indeed. Put a TBE with sports cat (or decat), fit a bigger IC (S3 or bigger) and fit an upgraded HPFP (LOBA, APR, Autotech internals) and with a stock map you can see 270 BHP, which is the same as the S3 engine makes from factory.
are you saying @Shoduchi (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10590) that the above parts fitted to a standard gti can produce an extra 70 bhp without having to Map it?.
You can compare my dyno runs before and after mapping. The engine was pretty consistent achieving the 270 BHP on that BAPRO dyno.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fmm475%2FShoduchi%2F2._MB_Power_1.jpg&hash=f534d0677ebcc9370d3b5b539eda4e13033cf25f)
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Mine on WOT is always less than 10 degrees above ambient with the meth off (Still have a/c rad). .
Even after 10 pulls to the redline on a 28 deg summer's day? I'm calling BS on that, pending VCDS logs as proof :smiley:
Can't say I've ever tried 10 back to back runs on a summers day. Lot of variables to consider too, but whenever I logged my car before fitting the meth, which included leaving the thing plugged in and logging the entire 'session', on a WOT run the IAT at the top of a gear was within 10 degrees of ambient. On the standard cooler it went a lot higher
Don't get me wrong the cooler will heatsoak in slow moving traffic/town cruising the same as any cooler will, but when theres plenty of airflow at 'motorway speeds' then it does its job very well
How is your meth nozzle setup?
TB spacer or Throttle body pipe?
Meth is in a TB spacer. Temps given are again at the top of a gear. The second you lift off (while there is some meth still injecting), the super cooling effect makes the indicated IAT plunge to 10-15 degrees below ambient for a few seconds :smiley:
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We wish it was bigger, indeed. Put a TBE with sports cat (or decat), fit a bigger IC (S3 or bigger) and fit an upgraded HPFP (LOBA, APR, Autotech internals) and with a stock map you can see 270 BHP, which is the same as the S3 engine makes from factory.
are you saying @Shoduchi (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10590) that the above parts fitted to a standard gti can produce an extra 70 bhp without having to Map it?.
You can compare my dyno runs before and after mapping. The engine was pretty consistent achieving the 270 BHP on that BAPRO dyno.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fmm475%2FShoduchi%2F2._MB_Power_1.jpg&hash=f534d0677ebcc9370d3b5b539eda4e13033cf25f)
@Shoduchi do you have an ed30 or gti buddy?.
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@Shoduchi (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10590) do you have an ed30 or gti buddy?.
I have an Ed. 30, it's in my signature. :wink:
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@Shoduchi (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10590) do you have an ed30 or gti buddy?.
I have an Ed. 30, it's in my signature. :wink:
That's why you're getting more boost as Dan_FR mentioned it's only the ed30.
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Mine on WOT is always less than 10 degrees above ambient with the meth off (Still have a/c rad). .
Even after 10 pulls to the redline on a 28 deg summer's day? I'm calling BS on that, pending VCDS logs as proof :smiley:
Can't say I've ever tried 10 back to back runs on a summers day. Lot of variables to consider too, but whenever I logged my car before fitting the meth, which included leaving the thing plugged in and logging the entire 'session', on a WOT run the IAT at the top of a gear was within 10 degrees of ambient. On the standard cooler it went a lot higher
Don't get me wrong the cooler will heatsoak in slow moving traffic/town cruising the same as any cooler will, but when theres plenty of airflow at 'motorway speeds' then it does its job very well
There are indeed a lot of variables at play. I used the 10 pulls scenario from past experience on one of my old projects.
Best I ever saw in terms of IATs was with a chargecooler setup. 5-8 above ambient over winter and 11-16 above in summer. I'd be happy with that from a front mount upgrade tbh. Keeps the torque more consistent :smiley:
They're funny things intercoolers. I once saw a MK4 GTI with a K04 upgrade using an uprated side mount, which claimed to be 40% bigger and 30% more efficient or something. IATs hit 70 deg after 1 pull in 3rd with that :grin: Useless. Then again, that method of intercooling wasn't great to begin with. Can't beat a front mount.
The standard GTI/Edition one isn't that bad in day to day driving - with standard boost. Running these little cotton reel K03/4s at 1.4+ bar kicks out some mega charge heat. Something the stock cooler wasn't designed for. Normal driving with cool down periods is OK though. Constantly on boost on track or on the dyno is where weak intercoolers show up!
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@Shoduchi (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10590) do you have an ed30 or gti buddy?.
I have an Ed. 30, it's in my signature. :wink:
That's why you're getting more boost as Dan_FR mentioned it's only the ed30.
I was comparing the S3 engine and the Ed. 30 engine. :wink: Upgrading the IC, the exhaust and the HPFP (shouldn't make a difference before tuning, though) and you get the same power output as the S3 engine. :smiley:
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@Shoduchi (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10590) do you have an ed30 or gti buddy?.
I have an Ed. 30, it's in my signature. :wink:
That's why you're getting more boost as Dan_FR mentioned it's only the ed30.
I was comparing the S3 engine and the Ed. 30 engine. :wink: Upgrading the IC, the exhaust and the HPFP (shouldn't make a difference before tuning, though) and you get the same power output as the S3 engine. :smiley:
Right now I understand :smiley: maybe a future mod with an IC and LOBA or similar will see how things go. thanks for the replies :drinking:
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Mine on WOT is always less than 10 degrees above ambient with the meth off (Still have a/c rad). .
Even after 10 pulls to the redline on a 28 deg summer's day? I'm calling BS on that, pending VCDS logs as proof :smiley:
Can't say I've ever tried 10 back to back runs on a summers day. Lot of variables to consider too, but whenever I logged my car before fitting the meth, which included leaving the thing plugged in and logging the entire 'session', on a WOT run the IAT at the top of a gear was within 10 degrees of ambient. On the standard cooler it went a lot higher
Don't get me wrong the cooler will heatsoak in slow moving traffic/town cruising the same as any cooler will, but when theres plenty of airflow at 'motorway speeds' then it does its job very well
There are indeed a lot of variables at play. I used the 10 pulls scenario from past experience on one of my old projects.
Best I ever saw in terms of IATs was with a chargecooler setup. 5-8 above ambient over winter and 11-16 above in summer. I'd be happy with that from a front mount upgrade tbh. Keeps the torque more consistent :smiley:
They're funny things intercoolers. I once saw a MK4 GTI with a K04 upgrade using an uprated side mount, which claimed to be 40% bigger and 30% more efficient or something. IATs hit 70 deg after 1 pull in 3rd with that :grin: Useless. Then again, that method of intercooling wasn't great to begin with. Can't beat a front mount.
The standard GTI/Edition one isn't that bad in day to day driving - with standard boost. Running these little cotton reel K03/4s at 1.4+ bar kicks out some mega charge heat. Something the stock cooler wasn't designed for. Normal driving with cool down periods is OK though. Constantly on boost on track or on the dyno is where weak intercoolers show up!
Yeah that's very true. Back when I had a 18T gti there wasn't much options for turbo cooling.
There was the side mount intercoolers which was a lot bigger. I took my car to R-tech and Niki told me I had wasted my money as they don't hold any improvement
2nd option was the Ebay fmic. the in/out pipes were a difference size and you could get the bumper back on without cutting the Sh1t out of your bumber. Even though the fit was crap, you did feel some benefits. like a massive surge when coming on boost.
Finally I upgrade to the wellycooler, 3inch in/outlets then reduced to 2.5. by far the best setup for the engine and it would have still be able to cater for big turbo setups. Even though at the time I was on a k03s I still didn't get any lag which was suprising for such a big cooler.
I cant wait to try my twintercooler setup now
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+40hp just from an IC and exhaust. Impressive!
I've bought an S3 IC from my dealer friend for a good price and will be using the APR downpipe. I'll see what that does.
I think with the Edition, once you start going above 1.3 bar, the standard IC and downpipe are big performance bottle necks. It's still impressive they make 300hp stage 1 though. It's just not repeatable because of the intake and EGT temps rising sharply.
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+40hp just from an IC and exhaust. Impressive!
I've bought an S3 IC from my dealer friend for a good price and will be using the APR downpipe. I'll see what that does.
I think with the Edition, once you start going above 1.3 bar, the standard IC and downpipe are big performance bottle necks. It's still impressive they make 300hp stage 1 though. It's just not repeatable because of the intake and EGT temps rising sharply.
I still want more power, I don't feel any real lack of traction if I don't floor it from reduced speeds. The DSG makes the engine be very progressive delivering the power. I'm waiting for a map tweak still.
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+40hp just from an IC and exhaust. Impressive!
I've bought an S3 IC from my dealer friend for a good price and will be using the APR downpipe. I'll see what that does.
I think with the Edition, once you start going above 1.3 bar, the standard IC and downpipe are big performance bottle necks. It's still impressive they make 300hp stage 1 though. It's just not repeatable because of the intake and EGT temps rising sharply.
I still want more power, I don't feel any real lack of traction if I don't floor it from reduced speeds. The DSG makes the engine be very progressive delivering the power. I'm waiting for a map tweak still.
You mean it feels less aggressive with DSG? Did you have the 1:1 throttle map put on it? Mine was aggressive when I bought it with Revo stage 1 (manual box) but since going 1:1 throttle, it makes more power, but doesn't FEEL like it does. I want that aggression back.
When I've put the S3 IC on and APR downpipe, I'm going back to my mapper for some more tweaks and priority number 1 is to put the OEM throttle map back on :smiley:
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I still want more power, I don't feel any real lack of traction if I don't floor it from reduced speeds. The DSG makes the engine be very progressive delivering the power. I'm waiting for a map tweak still.
You mean it feels less aggressive with DSG? Did you have the 1:1 throttle map put on it? Mine was aggressive when I bought it with Revo stage 1 (manual box) but since going 1:1 throttle, it makes more power, but doesn't FEEL like it does. I want that aggression back.
When I've put the S3 IC on and APR downpipe, I'm going back to my mapper for some more tweaks and priority number 1 is to put the OEM throttle map back on :smiley:
I mean that the DSG makes the power delivery more smooth due to its own torque limiters. I don't think my throttle map was changed. Even on WOT the engine has a smooth acceleration and just at reduced speeds I notice the traction control kicking in.
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Picked up my S3 intercooler today. Turns out my mate ordered the 2010 8P / MK6 R one which has plastic end tanks. The 2007 S3 all metal one is now £430!!!
6R / S3 one is £240, so much more reasonable. Going to use it as it's still bigger than the MK5 one and how much difference do metal end tanks make, realistically?
Does the 6R one fit a MK5? It looks like it will, same angle outputs etc, but I'm not sure.
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how much difference do metal end tanks make, realistically?
Better cooling as all metal and also a much better connection.
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Picked up my S3 intercooler today. Turns out my mate ordered the 2010 8P / MK6 R one which has plastic end tanks. The 2007 S3 all metal one is now £430!!!
6R / S3 one is £240, so much more reasonable. Going to use it as it's still bigger than the MK5 one and how much difference do metal end tanks make, realistically?
Does the 6R one fit a MK5? It looks like it will, same angle outputs etc, but I'm not sure.
http://www.genuineautoparts.com/uk/oe-audi/1k0145803p
This not what your looking for? probably the plastic one you already got though at that price.
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how much difference do metal end tanks make, realistically?
Better cooling as all metal and also a much better connection.
What I mean is, compared to the (thinner) MK5 cooler, what percentage of the S3's improvement comes from the larger surface area, or the metal end tanks? I seem to remember someone mentioning a comparison between metal S3, 6R and an aftermarket one (Forge maybe) and there wasn't a lot in it. I don't think the end tanks are in the air flow so much either? Anyway, the 6R is a LOT cheaper than the metal S3 one :)
The 6R one has the same connections as the metal S3.
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Picked up my S3 intercooler today. Turns out my mate ordered the 2010 8P / MK6 R one which has plastic end tanks. The 2007 S3 all metal one is now £430!!!
6R / S3 one is £240, so much more reasonable. Going to use it as it's still bigger than the MK5 one and how much difference do metal end tanks make, realistically?
Does the 6R one fit a MK5? It looks like it will, same angle outputs etc, but I'm not sure.
http://www.genuineautoparts.com/uk/oe-audi/1k0145803p
This not what your looking for? probably the plastic one you already got though at that price.
Yeah that is the all metal one. Plastic ended one p/n is 1k0145803PB
Bugger, I wish I'd seen that sooner! Already paid for the plastic 6R one! Oh well, tbh I'm not that fussed about metal end tanks, the larger surface area of the core is what I was after the most and without too much of a pressure drop. The 6R ic is definitely an improvement over the standard MK5 one.
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Picked up my S3 intercooler today. Turns out my mate ordered the 2010 8P / MK6 R one which has plastic end tanks. The 2007 S3 all metal one is now £430!!!
6R / S3 one is £240, so much more reasonable. Going to use it as it's still bigger than the MK5 one and how much difference do metal end tanks make, realistically?
Does the 6R one fit a MK5? It looks like it will, same angle outputs etc, but I'm not sure.
http://www.genuineautoparts.com/uk/oe-audi/1k0145803p
This not what your looking for? probably the plastic one you already got though at that price.
Yeah that is the all metal one. Plastic ended one p/n is 1k0145803PB
Bugger, I wish I'd seen that sooner! Already paid for the plastic 6R one! Oh well, tbh I'm not that fussed about metal end tanks, the larger surface area of the core is what I was after the most and without too much of a pressure drop. The 6R ic is definitely an improvement over the standard MK5 one.
I only just spotted it myself while on browsing for parts. good price.
Yeah it will be an improvement over the gti one anyway.
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Picked up my S3 intercooler today. Turns out my mate ordered the 2010 8P / MK6 R one which has plastic end tanks. The 2007 S3 all metal one is now £430!!!
6R / S3 one is £240, so much more reasonable. Going to use it as it's still bigger than the MK5 one and how much difference do metal end tanks make, realistically?
Does the 6R one fit a MK5? It looks like it will, same angle outputs etc, but I'm not sure.
http://www.genuineautoparts.com/uk/oe-audi/1k0145803p
This not what your looking for? probably the plastic one you already got though at that price.
Yeah that is the all metal one. Plastic ended one p/n is 1k0145803PB
Bugger, I wish I'd seen that sooner! Already paid for the plastic 6R one! Oh well, tbh I'm not that fussed about metal end tanks, the larger surface area of the core is what I was after the most and without too much of a pressure drop. The 6R ic is definitely an improvement over the standard MK5 one.
I only just spotted it myself while on browsing for parts. good price.
Yeah it will be an improvement over the gti one anyway.
Yeah it's a really good price. Currently from Audi the metal one is £430, or £370ish if you can wangle some discount.
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Picked up my S3 intercooler today. Turns out my mate ordered the 2010 8P / MK6 R one which has plastic end tanks. The 2007 S3 all metal one is now £430!!!
6R / S3 one is £240, so much more reasonable. Going to use it as it's still bigger than the MK5 one and how much difference do metal end tanks make, realistically?
Does the 6R one fit a MK5? It looks like it will, same angle outputs etc, but I'm not sure.
http://www.genuineautoparts.com/uk/oe-audi/1k0145803p
This not what your looking for? probably the plastic one you already got though at that price.
Yeah that is the all metal one. Plastic ended one p/n is 1k0145803PB
Bugger, I wish I'd seen that sooner! Already paid for the plastic 6R one! Oh well, tbh I'm not that fussed about metal end tanks, the larger surface area of the core is what I was after the most and without too much of a pressure drop. The 6R ic is definitely an improvement over the standard MK5 one.
I only just spotted it myself while on browsing for parts. good price.
Yeah it will be an improvement over the gti one anyway.
Yeah it's a really good price. Currently from Audi the metal one is £430, or £370ish if you can wangle some discount.
That Audi (UK) is selling really overpriced parts! You can get the IC for that price mentioned from other online stores in Germany too. Audi in my country upped the price a bit in 2016 but it's still sold at around £275-300, I think (metal ends).
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Yep, all part of living in the UK!
Stumbled onto this thread last night - http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167881&highlight=Golf+intercooler
It seems like the 6R intercooler is a good upgrade for the MK5. 25% bigger core surface area and freer flowing, bigger end tanks, less pressure drop, lower and more consistent IATs and a good way to delete those pesky clip connections :smiley:
Reading some of the comments in that thread from ECS Tuning and a couple of clued up guys, the 6R ic is an improvement over the old metal S3 one.
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Yep, all part of living in the UK!
Stumbled onto this thread last night - http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167881&highlight=Golf+intercooler
It seems like the 6R intercooler is a good upgrade for the MK5. 25% bigger core surface area and freer flowing, bigger end tanks, less pressure drop, lower and more consistent IATs and a good way to delete those pesky clip connections :smiley:
Reading some of the comments in that thread from ECS Tuning and a couple of clued up guys, the 6R ic is an improvement over the old metal S3 one.
It'll be a good upgrade and you'll have more than enough headroom to push the engine to a stage 2 with no issues. :happy2:
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Yep, all part of living in the UK!
Stumbled onto this thread last night - http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167881&highlight=Golf+intercooler
It seems like the 6R intercooler is a good upgrade for the MK5. 25% bigger core surface area and freer flowing, bigger end tanks, less pressure drop, lower and more consistent IATs and a good way to delete those pesky clip connections :smiley:
Reading some of the comments in that thread from ECS Tuning and a couple of clued up guys, the 6R ic is an improvement over the old metal S3 one.
That was the thread I also looked into, hence my reasons for going along the mk6 r one also
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I have a eurojet fmic intercooler to go on my edition
Anyone else running a eurojet intercooler?
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Would this be a good upgrade then http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-VI-5K1-2-0-R-4motion-2009-11-2012-11-CDLF-199kW-INTERCOOLER-RADIATOR-/271994521954?fits=Model%3AGolf&hash=item3f54230962:g:dx0AAOSwWnFWAmBU#vi-ilComp (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-VI-5K1-2-0-R-4motion-2009-11-2012-11-CDLF-199kW-INTERCOOLER-RADIATOR-/271994521954?fits=Model%3AGolf&hash=item3f54230962:g:dx0AAOSwWnFWAmBU#vi-ilComp)
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Would this be a good upgrade then http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-VI-5K1-2-0-R-4motion-2009-11-2012-11-CDLF-199kW-INTERCOOLER-RADIATOR-/271994521954?fits=Model%3AGolf&hash=item3f54230962:g:dx0AAOSwWnFWAmBU#vi-ilComp (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-VI-5K1-2-0-R-4motion-2009-11-2012-11-CDLF-199kW-INTERCOOLER-RADIATOR-/271994521954?fits=Model%3AGolf&hash=item3f54230962:g:dx0AAOSwWnFWAmBU#vi-ilComp)
Looks like a standard MK5/MK6 GTI one. The one you need is 1k0145803PB
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Yep, all part of living in the UK!
Stumbled onto this thread last night - http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167881&highlight=Golf+intercooler
It seems like the 6R intercooler is a good upgrade for the MK5. 25% bigger core surface area and freer flowing, bigger end tanks, less pressure drop, lower and more consistent IATs and a good way to delete those pesky clip connections :smiley:
Reading some of the comments in that thread from ECS Tuning and a couple of clued up guys, the 6R ic is an improvement over the old metal S3 one.
It'll be a good upgrade and you'll have more than enough headroom to push the engine to a stage 2 with no issues. :happy2:
Thanks :smiley: 6R intercooler + APR downpipe + stage 2 map = Happy days!
By the way, I am blown away by the quality of the APR DP. Even the packaging it arrived in is a whole different ball game to the usual aftermarket standard! Way too nice to fit to a car!
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Im going to order myself a Chinese front mount intercooler for about 160 quid! See what its like.
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Im going to order myself a Chinese front mount intercooler for about 160 quid! See what its like.
Is that the twintercooler type or the Oem replacement style
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@Paradox1 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9564) The twintercooler type, possibly this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401106711007?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I think all the ones on there seem to be the same company under a different name and saying they are based in the uk. Very confusing as to which one to go for
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@Paradox1 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9564) The twintercooler type, possibly this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401106711007?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I think all the ones on there seem to be the same company under a different name and saying they are based in the uk. Very confusing as to which one to go for
After reading the thread about the Golf 6R IC, I'd prefer to fit one of those if I had a K03 engine. It's OEM quality and a good upgrade. The price is nice as well. I guess getting the S3 metal ends IC isn't needed after all. :smiley:
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@Paradox1 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9564) The twintercooler type, possibly this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401106711007?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I think all the ones on there seem to be the same company under a different name and saying they are based in the uk. Very confusing as to which one to go for
After reading the thread about the Golf 6R IC, I'd prefer to fit one of those if I had a K03 engine. It's OEM quality and a good upgrade. The price is nice as well. I guess getting the S3 metal ends IC isn't needed after all. :smiley:
I'd happily fit either :) Anything is better than the standard GTI part!
I think the MK7 R has the same intercooler as MK6 and both put down good horsepower when chipped!
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@Paradox1 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9564) The twintercooler type, possibly this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401106711007?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I think all the ones on there seem to be the same company under a different name and saying they are based in the uk. Very confusing as to which one to go for
After reading the thread about the Golf 6R IC, I'd prefer to fit one of those if I had a K03 engine. It's OEM quality and a good upgrade. The price is nice as well. I guess getting the S3 metal ends IC isn't needed after all. :smiley:
I'd happily fit either :) Anything is better than the standard GTI part!
I think the MK7 R has the same intercooler as MK6 and both put down good horsepower when chipped!
The MQB chassis has a different IC. Not sure if the core size is different. The CDL engine (Golf 6R and S3) with supporting mods (downpipe, upgraded HPFP and a CAI) can do 350 BHP with the OEM IC. The Golf 7R can do it with just a remap. :smiley:
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@Paradox1 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9564) The twintercooler type, possibly this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401106711007?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I think all the ones on there seem to be the same company under a different name and saying they are based in the uk. Very confusing as to which one to go for
After reading the thread about the Golf 6R IC, I'd prefer to fit one of those if I had a K03 engine. It's OEM quality and a good upgrade. The price is nice as well. I guess getting the S3 metal ends IC isn't needed after all. :smiley:
I'd happily fit either :) Anything is better than the standard GTI part!
I think the MK7 R has the same intercooler as MK6 and both put down good horsepower when chipped!
The MQB chassis has a different IC. Not sure if the core size is different. The CDL engine (Golf 6R and S3) with supporting mods (downpipe, upgraded HPFP and a CAI) can do 350 BHP with the OEM IC. The Golf 7R can do it with just a remap. :smiley:
Ah OK. I google image searched "MK7 Golf R intercooler" and it looks very similar to the MK6 one. Probably is different in some way though. VAG can't leave anything alone!
So, the Golf R then, and it's IS38 turbo.....I wonder if it fits our EA113 engine?
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Ah OK. I google image searched "MK7 Golf R intercooler" and it looks very similar to the MK6 one. Probably is different in some way though. VAG can't leave anything alone!
So, the Golf R then, and it's IS38 turbo.....I wonder if it fits our EA113 engine?
Not worth the trouble of retrofitting. The K04 can handle up to 370-380 BHP with all the best Stage 2+ mods. If you add WMI you can do around 400 BHP. If you still want more, the TTE420 (K04 hybrid) will make 420 BHP easily with supporting mods (upgraded LPFP and 155 bar FRV). More with WMI (~450 BHP). It's plenty of power with a bolt on turbo.
If you want 500 BHP or more it's better to go for a BT kit from Nortech, for example (for 4WD cars). :evilgrin:
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Ah OK. I google image searched "MK7 Golf R intercooler" and it looks very similar to the MK6 one. Probably is different in some way though. VAG can't leave anything alone!
So, the Golf R then, and it's IS38 turbo.....I wonder if it fits our EA113 engine?
Not worth the trouble of retrofitting. The K04 can handle up to 370-380 BHP with all the best Stage 2+ mods. If you add WMI you can do around 400 BHP. If you still want more, the TTE420 (K04 hybrid) will make 420 BHP easily with supporting mods (upgraded LPFP and 155 bar FRV). More with WMI (~450 BHP). It's plenty of power with a bolt on turbo.
If you want 500 BHP or more it's better to go for a BT kit from Nortech, for example (for 4WD cars). :evilgrin:
Very true. I forget the little K04 is still capable of good numbers! I just thought the IS38 would be a nice little OEM upgrade :happy2:
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IS38 is has decent mid range pull. got to draw the line between practicality with being fwd n all.
k04 is ideal for our cars I reckon
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MK6 R intercooler fitted.
I haven't done any data logging yet but my butt dyno is definitely feeling a gain in torque. The engine feels a lot stronger in boost and more responsive off boost, and generally smoother running too. And this is with standard intake and exhaust.
I think it's down to a combination of things. 1) Losing the leak prone clip-in hoses, 2) losing 9 years of oil / crud build up inside the original cooler core and 3) the improved and freer flowing core of the MK6 part. You can just feel it doesn't heat soak half as much and has much less pressure drop.
All in all, for <£250 it's a bargain for an OEM upgrade that works really well :smiley:
All you need is 3 hours of your time and 2 x hose clamps. I used the OEM ones for the MK6 / S3.
I've read a few fitting guides and they mention that the driver's side boost hose needs trimming after you've pulled the metal ends off. Didn't need to do that on my Edition 30. Just pull the ends off and off you go. I used side cutters and pliers. 2 mins per hose. Some folk use a hacksaw. Which ever works best :happy2:
Oh and whilst fitting it, I noticed the bottom half of my A/C condenser is pretty much blocked up with crud, bugs and folded over cooling fins. With a new condenser fitted, I expect the gains will be even greater.
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So if I were to do this, I could fix my A/C system at the same time? :thinking:
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I'm sorry but I don't think you can "butt dyno" temperature differences on an intercooler.
I don't think TFSIs start pulling timing till the inlet temp is over 40 degrees which you won't get to in this temperature unless you are hooning it.
I fitted a THS intercooler and I did not make any more power or torque at all. It held power at the top end better but we are talking 2 or 3 bhp.
I would have rather spent £180 on an Ebay THS cooler and a new air conditioning condenser, as you say you will benefit from the better airflow as most of the air enters through the bottom center grill.
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So if I were to do this, I could fix my A/C system at the same time? :thinking:
No better time to do it :happy2:
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I'm sorry but I don't think you can "butt dyno" temperature differences on an intercooler.
I don't think TFSIs start pulling timing till the inlet temp is over 40 degrees which you won't get to in this temperature unless you are hooning it.
I fitted a THS intercooler and I did not make any more power or torque at all. It held power at the top end better but we are talking 2 or 3 bhp.
I would have rather spent £180 on an Ebay THS cooler and a new air conditioning condenser, as you say you will benefit from the better airflow as most of the air enters through the bottom center grill.
I'm not so naïve as to believe simply bolting on an intercooler will make an extra 100hp, but it has made a difference, end of. Like I said, the improvements I could feel were likely down to a combination of things, but it is a better intercooler than the standard part, end of.
Just because the ECU isn't pulling timing, doesn't mean the denser inlet charge won't be felt.
In your situation are talking about an Edition 30 or a Scirocco diesel?
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MK6 R intercooler fitted.
I haven't done any data logging yet but my butt dyno is definitely feeling a gain in torque. The engine feels a lot stronger in boost and more responsive off boost, and generally smoother running too. And this is with standard intake and exhaust.
I think it's down to a combination of things. 1) Losing the leak prone clip-in hoses, 2) losing 9 years of oil / crud build up inside the original cooler core and 3) the improved and freer flowing core of the MK6 part. You can just feel it doesn't heat soak half as much and has much less pressure drop.
All in all, for <£250 it's a bargain for an OEM upgrade that works really well :smiley:
All you need is 3 hours of your time and 2 x hose clamps. I used the OEM ones for the MK6 / S3.
I've read a few fitting guides and they mention that the driver's side boost hose needs trimming after you've pulled the metal ends off. Didn't need to do that on my Edition 30. Just pull the ends off and off you go. I used side cutters and pliers. 2 mins per hose. Some folk use a hacksaw. Which ever works best :happy2:
Oh and whilst fitting it, I noticed the bottom half of my A/C condenser is pretty much blocked up with crud, bugs and folded over cooling fins. With a new condenser fitted, I expect the gains will be even greater.
I am swapping out my airtec cooler for a mk6 r cooler this weekend. Do the hoses which come on the mk6 r need any adjustment? I still have my oem ones but if I can't get away with swapping the whole lot including hoses that would help.
Cheers
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I'm sorry but I don't think you can "butt dyno" temperature differences on an intercooler.
I don't think TFSIs start pulling timing till the inlet temp is over 40 degrees which you won't get to in this temperature unless you are hooning it.
I fitted a THS intercooler and I did not make any more power or torque at all. It held power at the top end better but we are talking 2 or 3 bhp.
I would have rather spent £180 on an Ebay THS cooler and a new air conditioning condenser, as you say you will benefit from the better airflow as most of the air enters through the bottom center grill.
I'm not so naïve as to believe simply bolting on an intercooler will make an extra 100hp, but it has made a difference, end of. Like I said, the improvements I could feel were likely down to a combination of things, but it is a better intercooler than the standard part, end of.
Just because the ECU isn't pulling timing, doesn't mean the denser inlet charge won't be felt.
In your situation are talking about an Edition 30 or a Scirocco diesel?
A Scirocco diesel with 36psi of boost from a turbo bigger than what an ED30 has... :smiley:
I suspect any improvements was that your head telling you that since you've spent £250+ that it must be quicker (unless of course you had some minor leaks they are quite common).
You won't gain any more power at stock or stage 1 tunes unless doing repeated flat out pulls, as I said it will not be pulling timing till the intake temps are quite high indeed.
I didn't say it wasn't better or worse, but that it won't provide you any increases and I'd have personally rather bought a Ebay THS cooler and a new AC Condensor.
I am a firm believe of proovable increases - dyno before and after or a log of intake temperatures would be proof.
The main increase I found from a larger intercooler was heatsoak when going slowly or stopped (in traffic) was far less.
I'm glad you are happy but i don't think you can really say "it's quicker" without any proof? I'm not being horrible or derogatory to you but i like being accountable.
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Is it not possible that the mk6 R intercooler also flows better than the ed30/GTI cooler?
It's not just the temperature of the charge that's important, but the velocity of it too.
This might explain the butt dyno improvement.
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Is it not possible that the mk6 R intercooler also flows better than the ed30/GTI cooler?
It's not just the temperature of the charge that's important, but the velocity of it too.
This might explain the butt dyno improvement.
Going from what I have read and seen (with graphs) yes, the mk6 r cooler is much more efficient at both cooling and flow rates compared with our stock ones
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MK6 R intercooler fitted.
I haven't done any data logging yet but my butt dyno is definitely feeling a gain in torque. The engine feels a lot stronger in boost and more responsive off boost, and generally smoother running too. And this is with standard intake and exhaust.
I think it's down to a combination of things. 1) Losing the leak prone clip-in hoses, 2) losing 9 years of oil / crud build up inside the original cooler core and 3) the improved and freer flowing core of the MK6 part. You can just feel it doesn't heat soak half as much and has much less pressure drop.
All in all, for <£250 it's a bargain for an OEM upgrade that works really well :smiley:
All you need is 3 hours of your time and 2 x hose clamps. I used the OEM ones for the MK6 / S3.
I've read a few fitting guides and they mention that the driver's side boost hose needs trimming after you've pulled the metal ends off. Didn't need to do that on my Edition 30. Just pull the ends off and off you go. I used side cutters and pliers. 2 mins per hose. Some folk use a hacksaw. Which ever works best :happy2:
Oh and whilst fitting it, I noticed the bottom half of my A/C condenser is pretty much blocked up with crud, bugs and folded over cooling fins. With a new condenser fitted, I expect the gains will be even greater.
I am swapping out my airtec cooler for a mk6 r cooler this weekend. Do the hoses which come on the mk6 r need any adjustment? I still have my oem ones but if I can't get away with swapping the whole lot including hoses that would help.
Cheers
You literally just cut the metal ends off the OEM MK5 hoses and that's it. Or if your IC comes with the MK6 hoses already, they should be plug and play. On the driver's side, I would recommend a new O-ring and clip for that side as it still needs to clip into the rigid pipe under the crank pulley unfortunately!
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I am doing a complete swap from one car to the other, both intercoolers are only a year old, so I will just use the hoses I take off his, saves having to cut the ends off mine
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I'm sorry but I don't think you can "butt dyno" temperature differences on an intercooler.
I don't think TFSIs start pulling timing till the inlet temp is over 40 degrees which you won't get to in this temperature unless you are hooning it.
I fitted a THS intercooler and I did not make any more power or torque at all. It held power at the top end better but we are talking 2 or 3 bhp.
I would have rather spent £180 on an Ebay THS cooler and a new air conditioning condenser, as you say you will benefit from the better airflow as most of the air enters through the bottom center grill.
I'm not so naïve as to believe simply bolting on an intercooler will make an extra 100hp, but it has made a difference, end of. Like I said, the improvements I could feel were likely down to a combination of things, but it is a better intercooler than the standard part, end of.
Just because the ECU isn't pulling timing, doesn't mean the denser inlet charge won't be felt.
In your situation are talking about an Edition 30 or a Scirocco diesel?
A Scirocco diesel with 36psi of boost from a turbo bigger than what an ED30 has... :smiley:
I suspect any improvements was that your head telling you that since you've spent £250+ that it must be quicker (unless of course you had some minor leaks they are quite common).
You won't gain any more power at stock or stage 1 tunes unless doing repeated flat out pulls, as I said it will not be pulling timing till the intake temps are quite high indeed.
I didn't say it wasn't better or worse, but that it won't provide you any increases and I'd have personally rather bought a Ebay THS cooler and a new AC Condensor.
I am a firm believe of proovable increases - dyno before and after or a log of intake temperatures would be proof.
The main increase I found from a larger intercooler was heatsoak when going slowly or stopped (in traffic) was far less.
I'm glad you are happy but i don't think you can really say "it's quicker" without any proof? I'm not being horrible or derogatory to you but i like being accountable.
So we're comparing apples to oranges then, always a good start.
I've seen the way you debate on Pistonheads and it does come over as derogatory I'm afraid. And I know more about this subject than you appear to give me credit for.
Good for you, you spend your money how you see fit. I wouldn't spend my money on a carcinogenic smoke belching Derv Scirocco personally, but each to our own eh? :smiley:
You are a firm believer in provable gains eh? You had nothing 'provable' to contribute in the Revo 400hp Octavia thread when a very clued up guy said it was BS, if I recall. You more or less surmised if it feels quicker, then it is, which is what we all think, no? So what's your problem with my intercooler findings then? I bolted it on, car feels better, so what? I'm not into this whole Pistonheads style of having to justify myself and provide scientific evidence to back up my claims. Pistonheads is for tit for tat, this forum is somewhat above that as we're enthusiasts, not nerds.
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So we're comparing apples to oranges then, always a good start.
I've seen the way you debate on Pistonheads and it does come over as derogatory I'm afraid. And I know more about this subject than you appear to give me credit for.
Good for you, you spend your money how you see fit. I wouldn't spend my money on a carcinogenic smoke belching Derv Scirocco personally, but each to our own eh? :smiley:
You are a firm believer in provable gains eh? You had nothing 'provable' to contribute in the Revo 400hp Octavia thread when a very clued up guy said it was BS, if I recall. You more or less surmised if it feels quicker, then it is, which is what we all think, no? So what's your problem with my intercooler findings then? I bolted it on, car feels better, so what? I'm not into this whole Pistonheads style of having to justify myself and provide scientific evidence to back up my claims. Pistonheads is for tit for tat, this forum is somewhat above that as we're enthusiasts, not nerds.
I don't really care what you think about diesels - or what you know (or don't know) about intercoolers or tuning cars since I don't know your experience level (nor have I questioned it. I questioned your claimed results)
The fact is that, in itself, an intercooler does not provide you with power per se. It allows you to maintain your power in hot conditions and multiple full power runs, and, at higher levels of tune, not be held back by restrictive cores or poor cooling creating high inlet temps which causes you to lose power.
Charge air is charge air and it doesn't matter whether it's petrol, diesel or piss that it's running on.
I have done before and after runs when fitting an upgraded intercooler (going from the stock TDI intercooler, same as a normal GTI one, to in my case a THS) and it proved to be no different, except at the top end where it held power slightly better but didn't actually improve peak power and certainly not enough to feel it (you are not going to feel 5 or 10bhp on the road).
As I have said in the past, if you are happy with it then great - but I think it's misleading to other people who may be reading the thread to believe that if they spend £250+ on an intercooler their car will feel quicker where as I do not believe that it does on a stock or even Stage 1 car without repeated high speed runs with limited recovery time.
I didn't need to prove anything in the Pistonheads topic you mention (which is completely unrelated to this one I might add!!!)
A few (3 or 4) members seem to troll highly tuned "normal" car threads, saying they are all BS - without any evidence or proof to back up their argument (that the car wasn't doing 400bhp). Then you have the people (I presume like you) who see lots of big words talking about cylinder peak pressures and side with them rather than the actual measured output.
If a bolt on map with no other modifications, can achieve 370bhp I'm very confident adding intake, exhaust and intercooler will contribute to a 400bhp peak figure.
Revo had dyno proof of their power, as well as acceleration times which were around the same as other cars of similar claimed power.
But as I said this is completely unrelated to this intercooler discussion. I was not rude or derogatory to you at all in this post.
I post in different styles on different forums. So I don't really think it's your business how or what I post on other forums, whether they are PH, Mumsnet or Pornhub.
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I'm going to stick a Chinese cheapo on when the time comes :rolleye: :driver:
ebayyyyyyyyy :jumping:
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/FMIC-FRONT-MOUNT-TURBO-INTERCOOLER-550x225x64MM-2-5-BLACK-/190451359946?nav=SEARCH
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So we're comparing apples to oranges then, always a good start.
I've seen the way you debate on Pistonheads and it does come over as derogatory I'm afraid. And I know more about this subject than you appear to give me credit for.
Good for you, you spend your money how you see fit. I wouldn't spend my money on a carcinogenic smoke belching Derv Scirocco personally, but each to our own eh? :smiley:
You are a firm believer in provable gains eh? You had nothing 'provable' to contribute in the Revo 400hp Octavia thread when a very clued up guy said it was BS, if I recall. You more or less surmised if it feels quicker, then it is, which is what we all think, no? So what's your problem with my intercooler findings then? I bolted it on, car feels better, so what? I'm not into this whole Pistonheads style of having to justify myself and provide scientific evidence to back up my claims. Pistonheads is for tit for tat, this forum is somewhat above that as we're enthusiasts, not nerds.
I don't really care what you think about diesels - or what you know (or don't know) about intercoolers or tuning cars since I don't know your experience level (nor have I questioned it. I questioned your claimed results)
The fact is that, in itself, an intercooler does not provide you with power per se. It allows you to maintain your power in hot conditions and multiple full power runs, and, at higher levels of tune, not be held back by restrictive cores or poor cooling creating high inlet temps which causes you to lose power.
Charge air is charge air and it doesn't matter whether it's petrol, diesel or piss that it's running on.
I have done before and after runs when fitting an upgraded intercooler (going from the stock TDI intercooler, same as a normal GTI one, to in my case a THS) and it proved to be no different, except at the top end where it held power slightly better but didn't actually improve peak power and certainly not enough to feel it (you are not going to feel 5 or 10bhp on the road).
As I have said in the past, if you are happy with it then great - but I think it's misleading to other people who may be reading the thread to believe that if they spend £250+ on an intercooler their car will feel quicker where as I do not believe that it does on a stock or even Stage 1 car without repeated high speed runs with limited recovery time.
I didn't need to prove anything in the Pistonheads topic you mention (which is completely unrelated to this one I might add!!!)
A few (3 or 4) members seem to troll highly tuned "normal" car threads, saying they are all BS - without any evidence or proof to back up their argument (that the car wasn't doing 400bhp). Then you have the people (I presume like you) who see lots of big words talking about cylinder peak pressures and side with them rather than the actual measured output.
If a bolt on map with no other modifications, can achieve 370bhp I'm very confident adding intake, exhaust and intercooler will contribute to a 400bhp peak figure.
Revo had dyno proof of their power, as well as acceleration times which were around the same as other cars of similar claimed power.
But as I said this is completely unrelated to this intercooler discussion. I was not rude or derogatory to you at all in this post.
I post in different styles on different forums. So I don't really think it's your business how or what I post on other forums, whether they are PH, Mumsnet or Pornhub.
There's always one drama queen. This thread is 6 pages long. Why did you suddenly decide to join it today, and contribute nothing constructive? Your intention was to question my findings and nothing else.
Where have I tried to mislead anyone? Read my post again and actually take on board what I said, not what you wanted to read from it to support your own argument.
Compared to a lot of branded aftermarket intercoolers, it is cheap and a guaranteed perfect fit because it's OEM. That is very reasonable in my book and a safe bet for anyone who is slightly nervous about steering away from OEM.
I know exactly how intercoolers work and what their role is, thanks. Just because in your own journey you didn't find any more power, it doesn't mean no one else will. An intercooler merely facilitates more power, it is not the sole provider of it, but then you knew that already, so why were you expecting more power in the first place?
Come off it, you came in here to stir up a bit of bother because you are Mr big shot derv man who thinks he knows everything about boosted petrol and derv VAGs.
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You have only recently fitted the intercooler and I questioned your results.
Hence why I commented. Thats what a forum is for. Questioining and discussion of modifications.
People who know me know that I don't take myself too seriously and that I dont think I'm a big man at all, lol. Quite the opposite.
While I quite enjoy a wind up on the FB groups I have enjoyed this community here for the last 3 or 4 years so try not to troll (too much) :-)
I'm not getting into an on going tit for tat argument. Ive said my piece. So will leave it at that.
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And intercooler can unlock potential power if the core is efficient and the flow and pressure drop is significantly better.
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Can only take from experience but I had a turboback and intake on my last car. when I added the intercooler, I cant say it made more power before the map but it did feel more urgent and did pull harder.
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You have only recently fitted the intercooler and I questioned your results.
Hence why I commented. Thats what a forum is for. Questioining and discussion of modifications.
People who know me know that I don't take myself too seriously and that I dont think I'm a big man at all, lol. Quite the opposite.
While I quite enjoy a wind up on the FB groups I have enjoyed this community here for the last 3 or 4 years so try not to troll (too much) :-)
I'm not getting into an on going tit for tat argument. Ive said my piece. So will leave it at that.
Fair enough, let's agree to disagree. Two stags locking horns can only go on for so long :)
I was thinking the other night, as you do, that perhaps you didn't find any gains because you need a significantly larger intercooler in your application? More flow than a K04 chucks out and 36psi. Maybe you need an IC the size of a football pitch? Aren't diesel intake charge / running temps lower than petrol turbos anyway?
I was also thinking that the standard IC was spec'd for a K03 running standard boost pressure. The MK6 R unit was spec'd for a K04 running more boost than a GTI, so naturally anyone with an Edition 30 is going to get some benefit from dropping the R unit in. VW were obviously being cheap when it came to the Edition 30.
Whilst I can't prove it with numbers right now, the car feels better to drive. I don't think MK6 Rs would make the numbers they do with a standard MK5 intercooler, so the potential is definitely there.
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Indeed :) let's agree to that
Perhaps, but it works in two ways.
My dyno charts for that particular test were on stock turbo which is probably about the same size as a k03. Since then we have put the large turbo on, I have no data on gains at this level. But I would imagine total power would not be much lower if at all.
The problem is you can increase the flow but you end up needing more air to begin with as the total capacity of the charge air system so you may actually end up with more lag if you go for an intercooler over a certain size.
I'm sure the core of the R cooler is better than a normal GTI and total flow may be improved (larger inlets and outlets).
Regarding R coolers, the Edition 30 uses a normal GTI intercooler and get fairly similar numbers. :drinking:
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Yeah the MK6 R one is up 20% surface area over the standard MK5 part. It also has improved rails and other internal improvements.
Did some IAT logging over the other night and I found exactly what people using the metal S3 ic did. The temps are a few degrees lower across the board (compared to a log I have with the standard ic) and it doesn't heat soak when you're pulling to the redline hard in 4th and 5th. The MK5 one is pretty bad for heat soaking with the boost turned up, especially in the summer months.
I know there are better intercoolers out there. APRs certainly looks a nice piece, but the OEM R part is a third of the price. Is the APR one 3 times better? I have my doubts :smiley:
I'd love to look into water charge cooler for this engine using Mercedes AMG parts, as they really do knock the intake path practically down to zero, but I haven't got the time!
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As stated before I can't believe the difference the Airtec stage 2 intercooler made on my stage 2+ ko3.
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As stated before I can't believe the difference the Airtec stage 2 intercooler made on my stage 2+ ko3.
I'm pretty sure someone on here is removing his Airtec cooler and swapping it for an S3/R part as it was deemed too voluminous by the tuner (think it was Niki). Too much lag/boost drop. This was also 2+ K03.
But I've seen plenty like you who get good results from Peron/Airtec with a K03.
Food for thought.
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As stated before I can't believe the difference the Airtec stage 2 intercooler made on my stage 2+ ko3.
I'm pretty sure someone on here is removing his Airtec cooler and swapping it for an S3/R part as it was deemed too voluminous by the tuner (think it was Niki). Too much lag/boost drop. This was also 2+ K03.
But I've seen plenty like you who get good results from Peron/Airtec with a K03.
Food for thought.
That would be me, and I have replaced it this morning!
Removed mine and his off his 6r at the same time and swapped them over (plus cash my way). Straight swap with the boost hoses if anyone is interested!