Post by: lukemk5gti on June 24, 2016, 09:41:03 am
Post by: jayha11 on June 24, 2016, 09:45:13 am
Post by: Pesky jones on June 24, 2016, 10:25:04 am
Post by: dazza on June 24, 2016, 10:29:07 am
Post by: Juliand on June 24, 2016, 11:32:49 am
What is just as concerning is the adult (voting) portion of the 30 million people who just couldn't be a*sed to vote.
There will probably be some recovery to the economy, over time, but as commentators have noted, this is a self inflicted harmful retrograde step. Little Britain!
I can understand Northern Ireland voting to stay in, as it gets shedloads of EU money, but I don't understand the Wales vote, to exit, with failing traditional Welsh industries and local economies needing EU funding to support them.
Unbelievable. If there was any doubt, I was a remain in...... :sad1:
Post by: dansmith180 on June 24, 2016, 11:42:59 am
The markets were always going to sh*t themselves at the start because of the uncertainty over our future (which is of course scary and I'm not enjoying that bit) but its part of the process to building ourselves a better, stronger and more independent Britain again.
I'm not in denial, this is a gamble and we didn't have to take it but the EU is becoming very controlling and I don't like the way its heading. Fortunately I'm not in a position where much is at risk for me when we leave but I know some people have more to lose and can't blame them for taking the 'safe' option.
In 10 years time (when I'm building a family and buying a house) though I see us being far better off out of the EU than in it.
Post by: DANBOY66 on June 24, 2016, 12:07:03 pm
short term everything will drop and look doomed we will come back bigger and stronger this country always does :happy2:
Post by: Juliand on June 24, 2016, 12:27:25 pm
Yes but where do you think the 'EU funding' comes from originally? Its just our own money being given back to us and we're supposed to say "thank you sir".
Uk paid £13 Billion into European Union in 2015, and yes is a net contributor. Compare the £13 Billion to the damage caused to the economy - it's trifling against that. And do you think it will get paid back out the poorer regions in the UK? No, it will just be absorbed as yet another saving
Post by: dansmith180 on June 24, 2016, 12:53:55 pm
Yes but where do you think the 'EU funding' comes from originally? Its just our own money being given back to us and we're supposed to say "thank you sir".
Uk paid £13 Billion into European Union in 2015, and yes is a net contributor. Compare the £13 Billion to the damage caused to the economy - it's trifling against that. And do you think it will get paid back out the poorer regions in the UK? No, it will just be absorbed as yet another saving
You're thinking far too short term, today has been utter sh*t, but every day from now we can begin to change and grow. Markets lose billions all the time but today everyone has been made aware of it.
Post by: Scott Bartlett on June 24, 2016, 01:07:00 pm
In 10 years time (when I'm building a family and buying a house) though I see us being far better off out of the EU than in it.
Exactly why I voted out,i have a 2 year old girl and a boy arriving in 4 weeks and I want to safeguard their future in this country. My job as a funeral director will not be effected by the vote and I do feel for others who will be financially worse off but in the long run things WILL come good. It's a gamble i am willing to take and fully expect to suffer and become the Guinea pig to trial and error within the next decade but as others have said we will become bigger,better and stronger
Of course this all depends on if it actually happens!!
Post by: dan930 on June 24, 2016, 02:18:23 pm
Do u think house prices will be effected & first time buyers being harder
To get on the property ladder?
Post by: rich83 on June 24, 2016, 02:45:39 pm
I think we will come back stronger,just give it a bit of time...
Do u think house prices will be effected & first time buyers being harder
To get on the property ladder?
The only way its gonna effect house prices is if the interest rates rocket up. I cant see that happening
Post by: Johnsy on June 24, 2016, 04:01:47 pm
the value of the pound going down is a temporary blip in the grand scale of things,once again Britain has the chance to be Great again.
Post by: rashg60 on June 24, 2016, 04:32:21 pm
Went to bed a European and woke up a proud Englishman, modern day revolution !
the value of the pound going down is a temporary blip in the grand scale of things,once again Britain has the chance to be Great again.
Technically we're still Europeans in the geographical sense.
Post by: doylebros on June 24, 2016, 04:49:55 pm
Let's see if it comes off as there talking years to unravel the knot.
Post by: white91 on June 24, 2016, 05:10:20 pm
I'm most angry about all the lies and propaganda. Do we even have a credible leader to take us through this?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: white91 on June 24, 2016, 05:11:29 pm
I think we will come back stronger,just give it a bit of time...
Do u think house prices will be effected & first time buyers being harder
To get on the property ladder?
The only way its gonna effect house prices is if the interest rates rocket up. I cant see that happening
It definitely not that simple, and yes interest rates are likely to increase due to government bonds
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: doylebros on June 24, 2016, 05:15:03 pm
http://dailym.ai/28REzyv
The Bookies have lost big style!
Post by: Juliand on June 24, 2016, 05:27:04 pm
I enjoyed this article http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/entire-british-empire-restored-20160624109759
Let's see if it comes off as there talking years to unravel the knot.
Ha, ha. Very funny, amongst all of the despair. Unassuringly, that's how a lot of people seem to see it - harking back to the days of the good old British Empire ruling the World! Delusional!
"There are none so blind as those that won't see"
Post by: doylebros on June 24, 2016, 05:37:46 pm
Post by: Craig Stanley on June 24, 2016, 06:52:14 pm
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Post by: doylebros on June 24, 2016, 06:54:01 pm
Sad day but even sadder Boris is more than likely going to be our leader now. God help us.Yes two years of Boris is a real worry!
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Post by: Craig Stanley on June 24, 2016, 06:56:43 pm
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Post by: Craig Stanley on June 24, 2016, 06:57:25 pm
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Post by: rich83 on June 24, 2016, 07:09:01 pm
I think we will come back stronger,just give it a bit of time...
Do u think house prices will be effected & first time buyers being harder
To get on the property ladder?
The only way its gonna effect house prices is if the interest rates rocket up. I cant see that happening
It definitely not that simple, and yes interest rates are likely to increase due to government bonds
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Correct. that was an over simplification. But house prices are unlikely to be effected IMO.
Post by: FJ1000 on June 24, 2016, 08:02:31 pm
According to them, the markets know nothing, the economists know nothing, business leaders know nothing. No. Apparently the real experts are that racist Farage, bumbling idiot BoJo, the xenophobic, the old, and the working class.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160624%2Ff0597b2bcd9cff77990445e8a5766511.jpg&hash=2e630baafe7aef5f1d5719367c7e348807442459)
Make no mistake, what we've seen today in financial markets is significant.
GBP's largest ever 1 day fall, and lowest point since the mid 1980's vs USD.
The U.K. Is about to lose its AAA credit rating with S&P.
Equity markets around Europe have taken a beating.
The reasons the FTSE wasn't worse were because the BoE has pledged £250bn to shore up markets, there is a lot of short covering going on, and the fact that GBP has fallen so far helps the index (in dollar terms, the index has fallen about 10%)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160624%2Fb58fd821cd401b12e6b181728e4d2797.jpg&hash=651ac939febf512c0221f56063a4127f1df8da4e)
So not only have we increased the cost of imports by 8% overnight, the prospect of the EU breaking apart has significantly weakened the market that currently buys 50% of our exports.
Add in the fact that the UK is heavily dependent on foreign direct investment to fund our current account, and any foreign investor just got badly burned. Expect major outflows.
The economy was growing at 2%. Inflation was low. Unemployment at 5% was the lowest in a decade and still falling. Wages had begun to rise.
And we've chucked it away for a load of empty promises.
Ultimately I blame Cameron. There was no need to have a referendum in the first place, and risk the future of my kids by handing the decision to the population, most of whom know nothing about the economy or financial markets, and are uninterested in facts.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: doylebros on June 24, 2016, 08:52:55 pm
They've reached there objective.
Post by: lukemk5gti on June 24, 2016, 09:25:12 pm
Hario on their uk based website for delivery to Ireland and saved! Sorry to hit you lads when you're down :driver:
Post by: dansmith180 on June 24, 2016, 09:40:16 pm
I find it amazing that the BREXITERS so casually dismiss the early signs that they f***ed up, and dismiss any analysis or expert opinion.
According to them, the markets know nothing, the economists know nothing, business leaders know nothing. No. Apparently the real experts are that racist Farage, bumbling idiot BoJo, the xenophobic, the old, and the working class.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160624%2Ff0597b2bcd9cff77990445e8a5766511.jpg&hash=2e630baafe7aef5f1d5719367c7e348807442459)
Make no mistake, what we've seen today in financial markets is significant.
GBP's largest ever 1 day fall, and lowest point since the mid 1980's vs USD.
The U.K. Is about to lose its AAA credit rating with S&P.
Equity markets around Europe have taken a beating.
The reasons the FTSE wasn't worse were because the BoE has pledged £250bn to shore up markets, there is a lot of short covering going on, and the fact that GBP has fallen so far helps the index (in dollar terms, the index has fallen about 10%)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160624%2Fb58fd821cd401b12e6b181728e4d2797.jpg&hash=651ac939febf512c0221f56063a4127f1df8da4e)
So not only have we increased the cost of imports by 8% overnight, the prospect of the EU breaking apart has significantly weakened the market that currently buys 50% of our exports.
Add in the fact that the UK is heavily dependent on foreign direct investment to fund our current account, and any foreign investor just got badly burned. Expect major outflows.
The economy was growing at 2%. Inflation was low. Unemployment at 5% was the lowest in a decade and still falling. Wages had begun to rise.
And we've chucked it away for a load of empty promises.
Ultimately I blame Cameron. There was no need to have a referendum in the first place, and risk the future of my kids by handing the decision to the population, most of whom know nothing about the economy or financial markets, and are uninterested in facts.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's pretty obvious you have a much better knowledge of the markets than myself but it was always obvious there was going to be serious instability for the first few days at the very least. It closed well today though.
The thing I disagree with though is that your children are at risk because if anything they will reap the rewards. There will be sh*t but that's coming now and for the next few years, in the long term without the restrictions and red tape provided by the EU we can flourish and do better than ever.
Most of the people who were scare mongering about how we will be shunned once outside of the EU have already done a complete U turn and said they can't wait yo deal with us.
Post by: Juliand on June 24, 2016, 10:49:56 pm
I find it amazing that the BREXITERS so casually dismiss the early signs that they f***ed up, and dismiss any analysis or expert opinion.What a spot on analysis. Absolutely right. Without the Bank of England bailing this out with hundreds of £Billions to regain liquidity this would have been a much greater disaster. But make no mistake, that money will not come without consequences.
According to them, the markets know nothing, the economists know nothing, business leaders know nothing. No. Apparently the real experts are that racist Farage, bumbling idiot BoJo, the xenophobic, the old, and the working class.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160624%2Ff0597b2bcd9cff77990445e8a5766511.jpg&hash=2e630baafe7aef5f1d5719367c7e348807442459)
Make no mistake, what we've seen today in financial markets is significant.
GBP's largest ever 1 day fall, and lowest point since the mid 1980's vs USD.
The U.K. Is about to lose its AAA credit rating with S&P.
Equity markets around Europe have taken a beating.
The reasons the FTSE wasn't worse were because the BoE has pledged £250bn to shore up markets, there is a lot of short covering going on, and the fact that GBP has fallen so far helps the index (in dollar terms, the index has fallen about 10%)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160624%2Fb58fd821cd401b12e6b181728e4d2797.jpg&hash=651ac939febf512c0221f56063a4127f1df8da4e)
So not only have we increased the cost of imports by 8% overnight, the prospect of the EU breaking apart has significantly weakened the market that currently buys 50% of our exports.
Add in the fact that the UK is heavily dependent on foreign direct investment to fund our current account, and any foreign investor just got badly burned. Expect major outflows.
The economy was growing at 2%. Inflation was low. Unemployment at 5% was the lowest in a decade and still falling. Wages had begun to rise.
And we've chucked it away for a load of empty promises.
Ultimately I blame Cameron. There was no need to have a referendum in the first place, and risk the future of my kids by handing the decision to the population, most of whom know nothing about the economy or financial markets, and are uninterested in facts.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Most people would have missed the significance, bathing in the euphoria of their myopia.
A significant point made too about the consequences for our children's generation - there is a valid point about voting being restricted to the younger ones, given that they will be the ones having to bear the major brunt of this in years to come.
It surprises me just how much racism still exists in the UK today. So much for a rich multi-cultural, tolerant, diverse society.
Double standards pervade too. I wonder how many of those voting out, drive European cars, take holidays in Europe, have pensions invested in European equities, and who work for companies whose origins lie outside of the UK, but have bases in the UK.
All so very short sighted....
Inflation will rise, interest rates will increase, holidays abroad will cost more, inward investment to the UK will decline, exports will cost more, affecting Uk businesses, Housebuilding will slow , as so many of the big developers names have lost value in their companies, so house prices will continue to escalate, and the banks have lost billions, so who will pay that bill? A Great day for the Independant UK! Top marks....
Post by: Juliand on June 24, 2016, 10:56:16 pm
Most of the people who were scare mongering about how we will be shunned once outside of the EU have already done a complete U turn and said they can't wait yo deal with us.
What? Examples please...
Post by: rich83 on June 24, 2016, 11:12:22 pm
Inflation will rise, interest rates will increase, holidays abroad will cost more, inward investment to the UK will decline, exports will cost more, affecting Uk businesses, Housebuilding will slow , as so many of the big developers names have lost value in their companies, so house prices will continue to escalate, and the banks have lost billions, so who will pay that bill? A Great day for the Independant UK! Top marks....
So the remaining EU countries put a levy on EU holidays.... Which would reduce the amount of tourists.... Which would damage THEIR economies... Nope... I dont think they will do that.
Post by: FJ1000 on June 25, 2016, 12:25:53 am
Inflation will rise, interest rates will increase, holidays abroad will cost more, inward investment to the UK will decline, exports will cost more, affecting Uk businesses, Housebuilding will slow , as so many of the big developers names have lost value in their companies, so house prices will continue to escalate, and the banks have lost billions, so who will pay that bill? A Great day for the Independant UK! Top marks....
So the remaining EU countries put a levy on EU holidays.... Which would reduce the amount of tourists.... Which would damage THEIR economies... Nope... I dont think they will do that.
You're missing the point - as GBP loses value, any purchase in a foreign currency becomes more expensive.
Most analysis I've read sees Stirling falling 20% to 30% vs the dollar, a little less vs the euro.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: rich83 on June 25, 2016, 12:35:30 am
Post by: FJ1000 on June 25, 2016, 12:46:12 am
The thing I disagree with though is that your children are at risk because if anything they will reap the rewards. There will be sh*t but that's coming now and for the next few years, in the long term without the restrictions and red tape provided by the EU we can flourish and do better than ever.
Most of the people who were scare mongering about how we will be shunned once outside of the EU have already done a complete U turn and said they can't wait yo deal with us.
The thing about those regulations is that the evidence is that they're actually a net positive.
Think about it. In a market of of 28 separate countries, rather than having 28 separate sets of regulation, the EU provided one set of rules. If you manufacture goods or provide services within the regulations, you can sell anywhere into the common market without the costs of adapting to each country. Therefore if we want to continue to sell into the EU we'll have to continue to abide by those regs.
Keep in mind, in terms of exports, we need the EU more than they need us. 50% of our goods go to the EU, whereas only 6% of the EU's goods are bought by the UK.
With regards to the "scare mongering"; it seems any facts the leave camp don't like are dismissed as scare tactics.
It is not in the EU's interest to grant the UK special treatment, and they've been clear that there will be no concessions. They need to keep their union together by disincentivising other countries from trying to leave. There are elections coming up in Spain, Holland and France. In fact they are trying to figure out how they can pressure the UK to trigger article 50 and exit as soon as possible, to avoid a long period of harmful uncertainty.
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Post by: dan930 on June 25, 2016, 12:49:00 am
The dip in gbp is temporary.
+2
Post by: shoaybmakda on June 25, 2016, 10:35:58 am
Post by: Craig Stanley on June 25, 2016, 11:13:17 am
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Post by: Adam0604 on June 25, 2016, 11:45:51 am
FTSE closed on a weekly high of 2.4%.
Obama back tracked on his initial comments of us being at the back of the queue, hinting a UK-USA trade deal is more than achievable once negotiations are opened up.
French President decided actually the ale Touquet treaty will stay in place (that's the treaty between us and France regarding Migrants trying to be across Calais border).
President of the EU commission has already stated that the UK will remain a close partner of the EU, something Remainers seem to believe we won't ever trade again with The EU.
Initially it looked grim, few hours later and it's looking promising already.
Main concerns would be who the right leader is to take us through this tough period, who will be able to achieve the best negotiation deals within two years once Article 50 has been invoked?
Post by: dansmith180 on June 25, 2016, 11:57:08 am
Most of the people who were scare mongering about how we will be shunned once outside of the EU have already done a complete U turn and said they can't wait yo deal with us.
What? Examples please...
Sorry I got hugely sidetracked looking at 14 million articles last night lol, so much sh*t to sift through. A couple of the big ones though.
Obama saying we'd be back of the queue
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fdansmith180%2FMobile_Uploads%2FScreenshot_2016-06-25-00-28-28_zpscxq1o9xw.png&hash=cb50c0d7b0be066613cf91d9025d674c66a6021e)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fdansmith180%2FMobile_Uploads%2FScreenshot_2016-06-25-11-28-50_zpsnwdpxej0.png&hash=2a2977497583014df6793719e169a476d0e84939)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fdansmith180%2FMobile_Uploads%2FScreenshot_2016-06-25-11-28-57_zps5gutnsym.png&hash=ae9934974026f55fb4b8b33836cff2c3fd8280b9)
Now him and others want to trade.
The migrant camps will be over here
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fdansmith180%2FMobile_Uploads%2FScreenshot_2016-06-25-00-31-48_zpssk2vcnlb.png&hash=c90156518bcf4e50311816a43715338b83334d36)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fdansmith180%2FMobile_Uploads%2FScreenshot_2016-06-25-00-47-10_zpsvxlwczv6.png&hash=87319240d3f00e1c9aed9ab383d85972afbbcfb8)
Now they're happy to work with us, although I believe depending on who the next priminister is we may have issues with this one as one of the candidates is all for sending them over here (which I can't blame him for).
The banks will sac everyone
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fdansmith180%2FMobile_Uploads%2FScreenshot_2016-06-25-11-44-53_zpsvfcfbhzd.png&hash=75e3516a8ad6ed6156c621f60312bb22ea58ae8d)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fdansmith180%2FMobile_Uploads%2FScreenshot_2016-06-25-11-45-02_zpsookiigr4.png&hash=d2d11a1834c1c90859c59f42b753875260bb90d6)
Banks always lie anyways.
I know they're not all perfect examples but it proves the point as I suspected many of the threats were just to scare us to an IN vote. I also believe some were completely true and will be carried out but that's a calculated risk.
Farage though and his £350 million to the NHS lie is just infuriating. Luckily I didn't base my vote on that but he should be stoned for lying along with George Osbourne and his dirty tricks.
Post by: Adam0604 on June 25, 2016, 12:00:50 pm
Post by: dansmith180 on June 25, 2016, 12:06:35 pm
The thing I disagree with though is that your children are at risk because if anything they will reap the rewards. There will be sh*t but that's coming now and for the next few years, in the long term without the restrictions and red tape provided by the EU we can flourish and do better than ever.
Most of the people who were scare mongering about how we will be shunned once outside of the EU have already done a complete U turn and said they can't wait yo deal with us.
The thing about those regulations is that the evidence is that they're actually a net positive.
Think about it. In a market of of 28 separate countries, rather than having 28 separate sets of regulation, the EU provided one set of rules. If you manufacture goods or provide services within the regulations, you can sell anywhere into the common market without the costs of adapting to each country. Therefore if we want to continue to sell into the EU we'll have to continue to abide by those regs.
Keep in mind, in terms of exports, we need the EU more than they need us. 50% of our goods go to the EU, whereas only 6% of the EU's goods are bought by the UK.
With regards to the "scare mongering"; it seems any facts the leave camp don't like are dismissed as scare tactics.
It is not in the EU's interest to grant the UK special treatment, and they've been clear that there will be no concessions. They need to keep their union together by disincentivising other countries from trying to leave. There are elections coming up in Spain, Holland and France. In fact they are trying to figure out how they can pressure the UK to trigger article 50 and exit as soon as possible, to avoid a long period of harmful uncertainty.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes I totally agree that us all trading and working as one (as a concept) is brilliant and a much better and more beneficial way for all of us to live. But why does it require being part of a group that is so damn expensive to run? Surely the same could be achieved with a couple of dozen top lawyers and an ELECTED candidate from each country?
Its gone from being a great idea and a working community to a controlling and dominant group of overpaid childish pricks. Most of them get paid more than out PM ffs.
As usual the idea is great but the reality just doesn't work out the same way. I do appreciate there is a certain stability to us all being together but I honestly think it's worth sacrificing that for the fact that long term we can and will do better on our own. And now we can trade with the rest of the world however and whenever we please.
You've made some great points and really got me thinking so thank you for that but I honestly still can't seeing the EU as controlling and restrictive.
Post by: dansmith180 on June 25, 2016, 12:08:30 pm
Agree with the comments Farage made about NHS not guaranteed on receiving full 350 million a week we save from EU membership fees, however, even if a large proportion of that 350 million is pumped into the NHs, that is money the NHS wasn't receiving beforehand and can surely only be seen as beneficial in anyway you look at it? Unless I'm missing something major here.
The problem is they had it all over the side of their bus and it was one of their main arguments. Then 10 minutes latet he laughs it off and says it won't happen.
Post by: jayha11 on June 25, 2016, 12:23:48 pm
Agree with the comments Farage made about NHS not guaranteed on receiving full 350 million a week we save from EU membership fees, however, even if a large proportion of that 350 million is pumped into the NHs, that is money the NHS wasn't receiving beforehand and can surely only be seen as beneficial in anyway you look at it? Unless I'm missing something major here.
The problem is they had it all over the side of their bus and it was one of their main arguments. Then 10 minutes latet he laughs it off and says it won't happen.
Where does it say on the bus they will/would spend the whole 350 million though? Nowhere. Also Farage wouldn't be able to guarantee this misquote as he isn't responsible for the budget. I don't think Farage influenced that many people in all honestly. Even a lot of the Brexit camp distanced themselves from him.
Post by: FJ1000 on June 25, 2016, 12:30:18 pm
The thing I disagree with though is that your children are at risk because if anything they will reap the rewards. There will be sh*t but that's coming now and for the next few years, in the long term without the restrictions and red tape provided by the EU we can flourish and do better than ever.
Most of the people who were scare mongering about how we will be shunned once outside of the EU have already done a complete U turn and said they can't wait yo deal with us.
The thing about those regulations is that the evidence is that they're actually a net positive.
Think about it. In a market of of 28 separate countries, rather than having 28 separate sets of regulation, the EU provided one set of rules. If you manufacture goods or provide services within the regulations, you can sell anywhere into the common market without the costs of adapting to each country. Therefore if we want to continue to sell into the EU we'll have to continue to abide by those regs.
Keep in mind, in terms of exports, we need the EU more than they need us. 50% of our goods go to the EU, whereas only 6% of the EU's goods are bought by the UK.
With regards to the "scare mongering"; it seems any facts the leave camp don't like are dismissed as scare tactics.
It is not in the EU's interest to grant the UK special treatment, and they've been clear that there will be no concessions. They need to keep their union together by disincentivising other countries from trying to leave. There are elections coming up in Spain, Holland and France. In fact they are trying to figure out how they can pressure the UK to trigger article 50 and exit as soon as possible, to avoid a long period of harmful uncertainty.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes I totally agree that us all trading and working as one (as a concept) is brilliant and a much better and more beneficial way for all of us to live. But why does it require being part of a group that is so damn expensive to run? Surely the same could be achieved with a couple of dozen top lawyers and an ELECTED candidate from each country?
Its gone from being a great idea and a working community to a controlling and dominant group of overpaid childish pricks. Most of them get paid more than out PM ffs.
As usual the idea is great but the reality just doesn't work out the same way. I do appreciate there is a certain stability to us all being together but I honestly think it's worth sacrificing that for the fact that long term we can and will do better on our own. And now we can trade with the rest of the world however and whenever we please.
You've made some great points and really got me thinking so thank you for that but I honestly still can't seeing the EU as controlling and restrictive.
Hey mate, please take a few minutes to watch this...
Post by: FJ1000 on June 25, 2016, 12:31:06 pm
Yeah. What a frog looking twat:)
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+1000
Post by: shoaybmakda on June 25, 2016, 12:31:55 pm
Agree with the comments Farage made about NHS not guaranteed on receiving full 350 million a week we save from EU membership fees, however, even if a large proportion of that 350 million is pumped into the NHs, that is money the NHS wasn't receiving beforehand and can surely only be seen as beneficial in anyway you look at it? Unless I'm missing something major here.
The problem is they had it all over the side of their bus and it was one of their main arguments. Then 10 minutes latet he laughs it off and says it won't happen.
Where does it say on the bus they will/would spend the whole 350 million though? Nowhere. Also Farage wouldn't be able to guarantee this misquote as he isn't responsible for the budget. I don't think Farage influenced that many people in all honestly. Even a lot of the Brexit camp distanced themselves from him.
I had a pamphlet in the post about it as did the rest of my family. No doubt others got it too.
Post by: dansmith180 on June 25, 2016, 12:59:40 pm
Agree with the comments Farage made about NHS not guaranteed on receiving full 350 million a week we save from EU membership fees, however, even if a large proportion of that 350 million is pumped into the NHs, that is money the NHS wasn't receiving beforehand and can surely only be seen as beneficial in anyway you look at it? Unless I'm missing something major here.
The problem is they had it all over the side of their bus and it was one of their main arguments. Then 10 minutes latet he laughs it off and says it won't happen.
Where does it say on the bus they will/would spend the whole 350 million though? Nowhere. Also Farage wouldn't be able to guarantee this misquote as he isn't responsible for the budget. I don't think Farage influenced that many people in all honestly. Even a lot of the Brexit camp distanced themselves from him.
I never expected them to spend it all on the NHS as that's not possible, that money (via the EU) pays for lots of stuff and so a large portion of it will have to be used to cover those expenses.
Its more of an ideal that we put too much money in their pockets when we have issues of our own to sort out. My issue was more the laughing and dismissive attitude towards it than anything else and yes as you said most of the leave campaign wanted nothing to do with him anyways.
Here's a pic of said bus for anyone who hasn't seen it.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fdansmith180%2FMobile_Uploads%2F2016-06-25-12-52-15-1226962749_zpsuzsedn4d.jpeg&hash=8bb5f6f93cca6f587bd6f9301cdfd50eb0248f9d)
Clearly doesn't state they will spend it on that I grant you but its the whole misleading element to it.
Post by: garrardrj on June 25, 2016, 02:16:18 pm
Post by: dazza on June 25, 2016, 03:12:58 pm
Post by: LondonGT on June 25, 2016, 03:40:17 pm
FX means things are now more expensive to buy or make. The down grade means it's more expensive to borrow.
Whoever asked about house buying, you're definitely not going to be able to do that.
For me this was a straightforward economic sense thing to stay. Nobody in the leave group could explain a tangible reason why it's a good idea, and besides if you back Farage and Boris you need your head read.
Post by: shoaybmakda on June 25, 2016, 03:51:34 pm
Post by: raz469 on June 25, 2016, 03:57:31 pm
Im not racist.
I just don't like how for EXAMPLE i have 50 europeans down the road every morning standing there waiting for work? WTF.
Don't come to this country unless you have a job ready or you work in a field that needs your skills.
I work in construction and know alot of jobs are given to eu's as alot of uk's don't think shovelling cement is a career, fine get dat.
So why are do many of them loitering the streets with 9.9% alc cans in their hands.
Theres lots of system already in place before the leave that were supposed to stop all sorts of bad sh*t.
But i voted from what I could actually physically see myself.
If we need eu workers, fine, bring them in on a points/ skill quota scheme. Everyones happy and hopefully our guys can weed the trouble makers and riff raff.
Re. Selling to the eu after leave. If our guys sold to eu before, they know which reg to manufacture to so no prob ce dem products again. Bonus
Re investments and fx i don't know enough to discuss, but what happened when we bailed out the banks and everyone was broke? We put our heads down and got on with it? Y? Cause this country is worth fighting for.
Post by: LondonGT on June 25, 2016, 03:59:19 pm
I'm not particularly keen on Michael Gove either @LondonGT (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7648)
Well if you'd voted stay you'd still have Cameron. Not great but at least him and Osbourne were digging us out of a hole.
Post by: white91 on June 25, 2016, 04:25:24 pm
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Post by: dansmith180 on June 25, 2016, 04:44:48 pm
Very strong possibility the EU could choose to make an example of the U.K. to protect itself
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That is something that does concern me a bit, BUT that's part of the reason I wanted to leave.
The EU's handling of this has been very childish and petty, they're not respecting our choice and helping whilst warning us of possible problems but instead threatening us like children in the playground saying "well we don't want to be your friend anymore then".
Post by: shoaybmakda on June 25, 2016, 04:51:05 pm
I'm not particularly keen on Michael Gove either @LondonGT (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7648)
Well if you'd voted stay you'd still have Cameron. Not great but at least him and Osbourne were digging us out of a hole.
Agree - and I did vote remain.
Post by: garrardrj on June 25, 2016, 05:03:28 pm
Very strong possibility the EU could choose to make an example of the U.K. to protect itself
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No chance. You will find other countries are calling for a referendum now. The EU has been poorly run and has hardly been good for the stronger nations. If it had remained a small successful group if countries it would be ok , but too many poor countries are in it now pulling down the more successful countries to their level rather than vice versa.
Post by: Dave J on June 25, 2016, 05:15:04 pm
Now we're told the EU won't miss us, and to get out asap. Really? You won't miss that money?! More arrogance & bullying from the EU, even as we're going...
https://fullfact.org/economy/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/
I think the way both campaigns were run was disgusting, and whilst I admire Cameron for giving us the vote - I think his behaviour during the campaign was terrible. He should have been impartial as the leader of the UK, and should have presented reasoned (factual) judgement for both sides, and could have THEN offered his personal belief.
I am not a xenophobe, or anti Europe - I am anti-control by the EU. I strongly believe our best interests will never be at heart in those politicians in the EU looking after the number of nations they do. I am also FED UP of being a cash cow for everyone else.
I believe in the UK - I believe things will take time to work through though...
Post by: white91 on June 25, 2016, 05:21:52 pm
Very strong possibility the EU could choose to make an example of the U.K. to protect itself
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No chance. You will find other countries are calling for a referendum now. The EU has been poorly run and has hardly been good for the stronger nations. If it had remained a small successful group if countries it would be ok , but too many poor countries are in it now pulling down the more successful countries to their level rather than vice versa.
You simply cannot say that, they will be very bitter about the decision, and never underestimate what people do when threatened.
It's a huge possibility
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Post by: Adam0604 on June 25, 2016, 06:44:23 pm
Germany is already wanting to open trade negotiation deals between just UK and Germany. Germany being the country who pump in the most money into the EU.
The EU can not afford to take a stance where they stop trading with the U.K.
Post by: white91 on June 25, 2016, 06:58:12 pm
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Post by: garrardrj on June 25, 2016, 07:05:27 pm
Post by: FJ1000 on June 25, 2016, 08:30:05 pm
http://infacts.org/uk-doesnt-send-eu-350m-a-week-or-55m-a-day/
The U.K. Is going to have less to spend on healthcare, not more, as the economy is likely to come close to slipping into recession.
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Post by: Spankiee on June 25, 2016, 08:40:52 pm
Post by: Juliand on June 25, 2016, 11:43:27 pm
It will be very interesting who wants to take the monumental task of leading us forward after Cameron fully steps down in October and what he plans to do in the mean time with pressure from France and Germany for us to start the leave process as quickly as possible.
Germany seems a little more relaxed about our timescale......
Potential Leaders??? Bo-Jo; Gove; ; May; Corbyn (Lab); Farron (Lib Dem); idiot Farage (UKIP).... ..... Gordon Bennet - What a shower, and what a state the political landscape is in.
This country is well and truely shafted for years to come. This cobblers about the UK coming back stronger is just utter ill-founded nonsense. The UK econony is absolutely F*cked for the foreseeable future. A self inflicted downfall.
I sincerely hope that I am wrong, for the sake of our younger generations , who will have to live with the consequences of this massively irresponsible gamble for decades to come :stupid:
Post by: Scottymon on June 26, 2016, 12:02:50 am
People want re-vote, hmm.
UK 5th Largest Economy
Germany makes over 150 Billion+ from export to the UK each year
Japan / Germany and US already want to make deals outside of the EU
Anyway: http://goo.gl/X4GNpQ
Post by: Horatio on June 26, 2016, 01:30:04 am
PAPERLESS. SWEAT. EQUITY. DEBT. NUMBERS ON A SCREEN.
The pound is worth more than The Euro. :thinking:
The Referendum subject was about the UK's Sovereignty returning to Westminster, the ability to govern ourselves. Nothing will change with Vote Out.
We tried the EEC trade deals and then The EU trade deals for the last 16 years but it didnt work out for the common man, so people wanted out. Lets leave it behind and move on.
If we had stayed in, if and when the additional TTIP legislation is passed we would have had to LOWER our food standards in-line with the USA.
It would also mean that global-corporations would be able to sue GOVERNMENTS for loss of revenue. Example, Swedish utility company Vattenfall sued the German governent for passing legislation phasing out the use of nuclear power after the disaster in Japan. Veola sued the Egyptian government for raising the minimum wage. British American Tobacco sued the Australian government for introducing standard packaging for tobacco products, loss of advertising revenue :thinking: When you have a fire, the solution is not more petrol :doh:
:doh:
Like the tea-towels say, dont panic and carry on :phew:
Post by: Scottymon on June 26, 2016, 01:57:24 am
France and Italy are practically bankrupt, and they are supporting countries... The EU would've crippled the UK.
(https://1k95i3bqziq3bboq03r87f8x-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2JunEUcontribsFINALweb-1-760x504.jpg)
Post by: white91 on June 26, 2016, 10:53:56 am
Signing TTIP would have also been the coffin nail for the NHS.Great visual there, shows how much some countries benefit
France and Italy are practically bankrupt, and they are supporting countries... The EU would've crippled the UK.
(https://1k95i3bqziq3bboq03r87f8x-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2JunEUcontribsFINALweb-1-760x504.jpg)
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Post by: dansmith180 on June 26, 2016, 10:55:27 am
Post by: FJ1000 on June 26, 2016, 11:16:08 pm
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Post by: grey golfster on June 27, 2016, 09:18:40 am
Rant mode on...
The entire fiasco was, and continues to be, a half-@rsed, half-baked ego-fest, orchestrated by a bunch of self-serving w@nkers!
What a painfully divisive mess we have all been saddled with
The simple numbers for me are that it will take months of extra work to make up what was robbed off my pension (yet again!).
And to cap it all it will be even more expensive to holiday on bl00dy Greece (which actually is bankrupt!) this September, than it was in May! WTF?
Rant off...
Post by: damo24 on June 27, 2016, 11:44:04 am
Where does it say on the bus they will/would spend the whole 350 million though? Nowhere. Also Farage wouldn't be able to guarantee this misquote as he isn't responsible for the budget. I don't think Farage influenced that many people in all honestly. Even a lot of the Brexit camp distanced themselves from him.(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160627%2F361dcdd95195b1a40bcf8e5d6e177cc0.jpg&hash=3c3f8ab8af7c4da9be0a9bc82d2ebd28117340f6)
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Post by: Scottymon on June 27, 2016, 04:49:51 pm
Left in the EU we would have been bullied into TTIP (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership) : One of the main aims of TTIP is to open up Europe’s public health, education and water services to US Private companies!! NO thanks.
Also, Food standards as Horatio said to be inline with US (meaning LOWER), more here (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html)
It's just a shame that we don't have strong leadership at the time we need it most.
Post by: FJ1000 on June 27, 2016, 08:47:40 pm
In the past 2 trading days, I make the taxpayer's loss on RBS (of which we own 73%) a cool £8.9bn. On one position.
Nice one.
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Post by: FJ1000 on June 27, 2016, 08:54:45 pm
It's more like 250 Million after rebate (13 Billion p/a)... but it's a chunk of cash, and even if the NHS doesn't get all of it (which I never thought it would) even a 1/4 of it; 50 Million a week is going to help A LOT.
Left in the EU we would have been bullied into TTIP (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership) : One of the main aims of TTIP is to open up Europe’s public health, education and water services to US Private companies!! NO thanks.
Also, Food standards as Horatio said to be inline with US (meaning LOWER), more here (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html)
It's just a shame that we don't have strong leadership at the time we need it most.
Most economists put our GDP loss from BREXIT at 3% to 4%. A mild recession by the turn of the year.
The NHS will have less money, not more.
Sorry, I forgot, we don't care about experts! What do they know eh? Bo-Jo and frog face know better than anyone, right? I mean the experts said GBP would lose 10 to 20%...oh, wait...
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Post by: Scottymon on June 27, 2016, 09:31:15 pm
Worst case... lose a MAX 1% GDP....
HOWEVER, now we have a Free market to the rest of the world (previously denied by EU partnership) we have an extra 10% GDP to gain, yikes, BIG money to come our way, through deals we can actually control!
Hope the Netherlands keep to their promise and vote out, then EU is gone, as well it should be, the smaller countries CANNOT be supported by the hard work of others.
We cannot be governed behind closed doors, what's the point of voting IN our UK Government, to only be truly controlled from Outside, without any real say.
Post by: Scottymon on June 27, 2016, 09:51:20 pm
Post by: grey golfster on June 27, 2016, 10:09:25 pm
Am Retreating into endless Glasto reruns/highlights now ....at least we can lead Europe, if not the world, in something?
Post by: FJ1000 on June 27, 2016, 10:33:47 pm
Worst case... lose a MAX 1% GDP....
HOWEVER, now we have a Free market to the rest of the world (previously denied by EU partnership) we have an extra 10% GDP to gain, yikes, BIG money to come our way, through deals we can actually control!
Where on earth do you get your "information" from?
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Post by: Scottymon on June 27, 2016, 10:40:47 pm
Somebody please put Rooney, Hodgson and the rest of the feckwits out of their misery now...please!!!
Am Retreating into endless Glasto reruns/highlights now ....at least we can lead Europe, if not the world, in something?
Crazy display, after 3 minutes in I was feeling sorry for Iceland... after 5 minutes it was all down hill :(
Post by: Juliand on June 27, 2016, 10:46:09 pm
Wether you voted in or out.....What the heck do you wanna go to Greece for anyway? It'll be full of those nasty Europeans.
Rant mode on...
The entire fiasco was, and continues to be, a half-@rsed, half-baked ego-fest, orchestrated by a bunch of self-serving w@nkers!
What a painfully divisive mess we have all been saddled with
The simple numbers for me are that it will take months of extra work to make up what was robbed off my pension (yet again!).
And to cap it all it will be even more expensive to holiday on bl00dy Greece (which actually is bankrupt!) this September, than it was in May! WTF?
Rant off...
Stay in the Little Britain, with yer handkerchief on yer head, yer import trousers rolled up (while you can get em) with a nice cool Wall's Choc Ice, an some greasy chips (even put some curry sauce on if you wanna be really daring and ethnic) and spend yer sterling where it belongs - FFS we need the money here, that's for sure.
You'll be being independent, safe in the knowledge that yer country will come to no harm completely ok in hands of the 'ever so' knowledgeable expert electorate. No wucking furries. Blackpool / Yarmouth / Rhyl here you go! The lights will be on soon :smiley: Well - at least they'll be on somewhere, even if no one is in :doh:
Post by: Scottymon on June 28, 2016, 12:25:29 am
... in hands of the 'ever so' knowledgeable expert electorate.
At least we get to choose those in charge every now and then! When was the last time you voted someone in for the EU regiments?
IF TTIP was signed whilst a member of the EU we would have f*ck all say (sorry 1 in 28, and 18+ of those wanting to abide by Brussels to remain solvent!!!!); if it is signed with UK out of the EU, then we can vote those electorate out; choices!
LEAVE is short term hard, long term WAY better for the UK.
Post by: dazza on June 28, 2016, 01:03:38 am
WTF, well it seems England are OUT twice in one Month, to f*cking Iceland, just sh*te.Come on Wales :scared1:
Post by: Dan_FR on June 28, 2016, 07:18:31 am
WTF, well it seems England are OUT twice in one Month, to f*cking Iceland, just sh*te.Come on Wales :scared1:
This!!! :signLOL:
Post by: Juliand on June 28, 2016, 08:07:51 am
At least we get to choose those in charge every now and then! When was the last time you voted someone in for the EU regiments?
The May 2014 European Parliament Elections
Post by: Scottymon on June 28, 2016, 10:35:04 am
At least we get to choose those in charge every now and then! When was the last time you voted someone in for the EU regiments?
The May 2014 European Parliament Elections
You're not voting directly though are you, it's so convoluted and corrupt, it's more akin to the European song contest, where everyone hates the UK.
Post by: Scottymon on June 28, 2016, 10:36:54 am
WTF, well it seems England are OUT twice in one Month, to f*cking Iceland, just sh*te.Come on Wales :scared1:
This!!! :signLOL:
This thrice... Wish Wales had Iceland over Belgium though, eek.
Post by: Juliand on June 28, 2016, 02:59:48 pm
At least we get to choose those in charge every now and then! When was the last time you voted someone in for the EU regiments?
The May 2014 European Parliament Elections
You're not voting directly though are you, it's so convoluted and corrupt, it's more akin to the European song contest, where everyone hates the UK.
Yes you are. The European Parliament is directly elected. It's where Cameron is today
Post by: Scottymon on June 28, 2016, 03:29:16 pm
The EU is a failing entity, relying on successful countries to support the rest; until they are so bled dry (France / Italy / Spain?) that they become the spongers too.
Netherlands next, then it's game over EU.
Anyway, Wales Friday 8PM, be there or be square. :drinking:
Post by: garrardrj on June 28, 2016, 06:57:36 pm
Post by: doylebros on June 28, 2016, 07:11:19 pm
Post by: Johnsy on June 28, 2016, 07:25:07 pm
theres a potential 2.2billion customers in the world market compared to the 500million in the EU.
The EU is the only market to not have regained it GDP since 2007-2008 recession. While America has grown it's GDP and increased its national wealth by 10% . Where getting out just at the right time, hells sure if we weren't already In. We wouldn't be looking to join the EU .
Post by: dansmith180 on June 28, 2016, 07:30:57 pm
Onwards and upwards !
theres a potential 2.2billion customers in the world market compared to the 500million in the EU.
The EU is the only market to not have regained it GDP since 2007-2008 recession. While America has grown it's GDP and increased its national wealth by 10% . Where getting out just at the right time, hells sure if we weren't already In. We wouldn't be looking to join the EU .
Very interesting about the GDP that, was not aware of those figures. I knew that others were doing better but didn't realise it was that much.
Also the point about not joining I found a very good one when I first heard it, no way we'd jump into that sh*t show now so why shouldn't we leave it.
Post by: FJ1000 on June 28, 2016, 08:06:40 pm
Make no mistake though, membership of the EU is a net positive to the UK economy, and we're never joining the euro.
I went to a presentation at Bloomberg and their economist estimated that membership of the EU added around 10% to UK trade income.
Final point for now; the EU is in some ways more democratic than the UK parliament. House of Lords anyone? See the vid I posted earlier.
Good to see markets a bit more stable today.
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Post by: Johnsy on June 28, 2016, 11:51:19 pm
Onwards and upwards !
theres a potential 2.2billion customers in the world market compared to the 500million in the EU.
The EU is the only market to not have regained it GDP since 2007-2008 recession. While America has grown it's GDP and increased its national wealth by 10% . Where getting out just at the right time, hells sure if we weren't already In. We wouldn't be looking to join the EU .
Very interesting about the GDP that, was not aware of those figures. I knew that others were doing better but didn't realise it was that much.
Also the point about not joining I found a very good one when I first heard it, no way we'd jump into that sh*t show now so why shouldn't we leave it.
Interesting from a Brexit pov
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Futxf1U2f8
A little closer to home
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tzNj-hH8LkY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Futxf1U2f8
Post by: raz469 on June 29, 2016, 03:28:44 pm
It's nice to be given a balanced view. I thought the rest of Europe hated us.
Dooes this mean we're gonna be going to war with Europe (&Russia) in the future?
Say once we've left them alone to "govern" themselves for 10 years.
So are we all coming to terms with life after eu and how we will survive
Is anyone else not worried about leaving the eu alone with Russia?
Post by: garrardrj on June 29, 2016, 07:50:27 pm
^ wow
It's nice to be given a balanced view. I thought the rest of Europe hated us.
Dooes this mean we're gonna be going to war with Europe (&Russia) in the future?
Say once we've left them alone to "govern" themselves for 10 years.
So are we all coming to terms with life after eu and how we will survive
Is anyone else not worried about leaving the eu alone with Russia?
NATO is there for our protection , not the EU
Post by: doylebros on June 29, 2016, 07:53:08 pm
^ wow
It's nice to be given a balanced view. I thought the rest of Europe hated us.
Dooes this mean we're gonna be going to war with Europe (&Russia) in the future?
Say once we've left them alone to "govern" themselves for 10 years.
So are we all coming to terms with life after eu and how we will survive
Is anyone else not worried about leaving the eu alone with Russia?
NATO is there for our protection , not the EU
Wouldn't worry about Russia they've got all their loot in London.
Post by: Juliand on June 29, 2016, 10:31:06 pm
Wouldn't worry about Russia they've got all their loot in London.
Well, they did have! Not quite such a safe investment now, is it???? :doh:
Post by: Scottymon on June 30, 2016, 01:53:15 am
However, ask yourself if you'd honesty want the UK to join Europe now for the first time.
Knowing full well that it's a failing system only getting worse, where we'd have to support other countries, not be able to have free trade with the rest of the world, have to accept thousands of immigrants each year, be bullied into agreements like TTIP, and have to spend Billions for the privilege!! How appealing.
Post by: Craig Stanley on June 30, 2016, 05:24:04 am
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Post by: dansmith180 on June 30, 2016, 07:59:10 am
The whole Brexit attitude that gets to me is the whole "we're alright John and sod the rest of you". As a rich nation shouldn't we be helping to lead the world to a better place for all. The countries that need help are only looking to have an equal way of life as ourselves. Is that not fair.
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That's called communism and it's never worked.
Post by: Craig Stanley on June 30, 2016, 08:03:35 am
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Post by: Craig Stanley on June 30, 2016, 08:18:04 am
I call it compassion for and wanting to help my fellow humans mate whatever colour, race or nationality.The whole Brexit attitude that gets to me is the whole "we're alright John and sod the rest of you". As a rich nation shouldn't we be helping to lead the world to a better place for all. The countries that need help are only looking to have an equal way of life as ourselves. Is that not fair.
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That's called communism and it's never worked.
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Post by: dansmith180 on June 30, 2016, 09:23:39 am
I call it compassion for and wanting to help my fellow humans mate whatever colour, race or nationality.The whole Brexit attitude that gets to me is the whole "we're alright John and sod the rest of you". As a rich nation shouldn't we be helping to lead the world to a better place for all. The countries that need help are only looking to have an equal way of life as ourselves. Is that not fair.
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That's called communism and it's never worked.
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That's a very nice, romantic and idealistic way of looking at things. Maybe I'm just a pessimistic knob but I don't see that the world works like that.
I'm all for helping out fellow man and colour/ race/ religion doesn't really matter to me but you can't bankrupt yourself trying to save everyone when they don't always seem to be helping themselves.
Also if the people in control of the EU were focused on that rather than trying to tell everyone what they should do the world would be a better place.
Post by: Craig Stanley on June 30, 2016, 09:28:45 am
I call it compassion for and wanting to help my fellow humans mate whatever colour, race or nationality.The whole Brexit attitude that gets to me is the whole "we're alright John and sod the rest of you". As a rich nation shouldn't we be helping to lead the world to a better place for all. The countries that need help are only looking to have an equal way of life as ourselves. Is that not fair.
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That's called communism and it's never worked.
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That's a very nice, romantic and idealistic way of looking at things. Maybe I'm just a pessimistic knob but I don't see that the world works like that.
I'm all for helping out fellow man and colour/ race/ religion doesn't really matter to me but you can't bankrupt yourself trying to save everyone when they don't always seem to be helping themselves.
Also if the people in control of the EU were focused on that rather than trying to tell everyone what they should do the world would be a better place.
Post by: FJ1000 on June 30, 2016, 11:44:13 am
- The referendum is not legally binding. There is form in Europe for not following through a referendum result...
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
- Boris has himself in the past said a "no" referendum was the best way to go into EU negotiations, win some real concessions, and then put a revised deal to the UK as a second referendum. He did do a U-turn on this later though; "out is out". But he lies, so who knows what he's plotting. And he might not be in charge.
- There's talk about forcing the decision through a parliamentary vote, at which point it would be voted down. This maneuver is being called a "reverse maastricht." Sounds like a WWE move!
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2016/jun/06/reverse-maastricht-legal-politically-feasible-eu-referendum-brexit
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wwe.com%2Ff%2Fstyles%2Fog_image%2Fpublic%2Fvideo%2Fthumb%2F2013%2F11%2Fsg-every_tombstone_ever.jpg&hash=a0b59f59ec864a870ef78a7208a66a989d3143a5)
- There's a chance of an early general election, sometime next year. The Lib Dems have said they will campaign on the basis of keeping the UK in the EU. Now, they're not going to win, but makes you wonder what labour will do, and what happens if they end up with a remainer leading labour and in coalition with Lib Dem.
Basically, all kinds of scenarios could play out!
All of this has got me wondering about picking up a small amount of UK banks or home builders shares. Barratt and RBS for example 30% lower on the month; fair if we do exit, but could look very cheap in a couple of years if it turns out we stay in. But then again, just the uncertainty if it continues for an extended period of time damages the profitability of these companies; a 5% fall in home sales and 5% off prices takes 33% off the profit of the average UK homebuilder!
Post by: Craig Stanley on June 30, 2016, 12:49:04 pm
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Post by: Juliand on June 30, 2016, 10:43:53 pm
I'm all for helping out fellow man and colour/ race/ religion doesn't really matter to me but you can't bankrupt yourself trying to save everyone when they don't always seem to be helping themselves.
Also if the people in control of the EU were focused on that rather than trying to tell everyone what they should do the world would be a better place.
At what point was our contribution to the EU bankrupting the UK?
Compare the UK's financial contribution to the EU in 2015 at £8.5 Billion net (after what we get back) against the loss to UK companies following the 'out' decision of over £120 Billion, and the biggest drop in Sterling in over 30 years? Which was the biggest impact on the UK's economy? Clue: not the UK's payment to the EU.
What real examples do you have of the EU telling everyone what to do??? :doh:
Post by: Scottymon on July 01, 2016, 12:02:25 am
No Free Trading outside EU
TTIP
I'm all for helping out fellow man and colour/ race/ religion doesn't really matter to me but you can't bankrupt yourself trying to save everyone when they don't always seem to be helping themselves.
Also if the people in control of the EU were focused on that rather than trying to tell everyone what they should do the world would be a better place.
At what point was our contribution to the EU bankrupting the UK?
Compare the UK's financial contribution to the EU in 2015 at £8.5 Billion net (after what we get back) against the loss to UK companies following the 'out' decision of over £120 Billion, and the biggest drop in Sterling in over 30 years? Which was the biggest impact on the UK's economy? Clue: not the UK's payment to the EU.
What real examples do you have of the EU telling everyone what to do??? :doh:
And?
Just because it cost us heavy in the short term, doesn't mean it's not the right decision long term.
Would you honestly want the UK to join the EU now if we had never been a member? :thinking:
Post by: dansmith180 on July 01, 2016, 12:35:34 am
I'm all for helping out fellow man and colour/ race/ religion doesn't really matter to me but you can't bankrupt yourself trying to save everyone when they don't always seem to be helping themselves.
Also if the people in control of the EU were focused on that rather than trying to tell everyone what they should do the world would be a better place.
At what point was our contribution to the EU bankrupting the UK?
Compare the UK's financial contribution to the EU in 2015 at £8.5 Billion net (after what we get back) against the loss to UK companies following the 'out' decision of over £120 Billion, and the biggest drop in Sterling in over 30 years? Which was the biggest impact on the UK's economy? Clue: not the UK's payment to the EU.
What real examples do you have of the EU telling everyone what to do??? :doh:
I didnt say the EU was bankrupting us, I said the idea of giving our money away to every country in need so we could all be equal would probably bankrupt us.
Real example? How about the fact that it took 8 YEARS to deport that maniac Abu Hamza, and he cost us £25million while he was here.
We had to wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait until eventually the judges in Strasbourg let us deport someone from our own country. And they were reluctant to do it.
Post by: dansmith180 on July 01, 2016, 12:38:58 am
It was always going to cause disruption but this is a LONG term decision. People seem to be so caught up in what the next 3 months is going to be like instead of the next 3 decades. We as a country have recovered from far worse only to come back bigger and stronger. But the EU is something even we would have been swallowed up by eventually.
Post by: Scottymon on July 01, 2016, 01:11:42 am
Biese, chief political analyst reports thousands of jobs could be on the line in Germany, if Merkel pursues a policy of punishment towards the UK.
Post by: Craig Stanley on July 01, 2016, 06:15:39 am
It may of taken 8 years to deport Abu Hamza but we are only fed the reasons why from the media and if you believe the media then your facts are probably wrong. If we stayed in the EU the law on deporting EU criminals in our prisons was about to be changed and made much quicker but now we are out the deportation of criminals is going to take much longer than it takes presently. Probably just as long if not longer than Abu Hamza. I'm sure that will drain a bit of cash out the taxpayers pocket.
I'm all for helping out fellow man and colour/ race/ religion doesn't really matter to me but you can't bankrupt yourself trying to save everyone when they don't always seem to be helping themselves.
Also if the people in control of the EU were focused on that rather than trying to tell everyone what they should do the world would be a better place.
At what point was our contribution to the EU bankrupting the UK?
Compare the UK's financial contribution to the EU in 2015 at £8.5 Billion net (after what we get back) against the loss to UK companies following the 'out' decision of over £120 Billion, and the biggest drop in Sterling in over 30 years? Which was the biggest impact on the UK's economy? Clue: not the UK's payment to the EU.
What real examples do you have of the EU telling everyone what to do??? :doh:
I didnt say the EU was bankrupting us, I said the idea of giving our money away to every country in need so we could all be equal would probably bankrupt us.
Real example? How about the fact that it took 8 YEARS to deport that maniac Abu Hamza, and he cost us £25million while he was here.
We had to wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait until eventually the judges in Strasbourg let us deport someone from our own country. And they were reluctant to do it.
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Post by: Craig Stanley on July 01, 2016, 06:29:38 am
Also we don't know what is going to happen now. Its all a massive gamble and I'm sure we all hope it pays off.It may of taken 8 years to deport Abu Hamza but we are only fed the reasons why from the media and if you believe the media then your facts are probably wrong. If we stayed in the EU the law on deporting EU criminals in our prisons was about to be changed and made much quicker but now we are out the deportation of criminals is going to take much longer than it takes presently. Probably just as long if not longer than Abu Hamza. I'm sure that will drain a bit of cash out the taxpayers pocket.
I'm all for helping out fellow man and colour/ race/ religion doesn't really matter to me but you can't bankrupt yourself trying to save everyone when they don't always seem to be helping themselves.
Also if the people in control of the EU were focused on that rather than trying to tell everyone what they should do the world would be a better place.
At what point was our contribution to the EU bankrupting the UK?
Compare the UK's financial contribution to the EU in 2015 at £8.5 Billion net (after what we get back) against the loss to UK companies following the 'out' decision of over £120 Billion, and the biggest drop in Sterling in over 30 years? Which was the biggest impact on the UK's economy? Clue: not the UK's payment to the EU.
What real examples do you have of the EU telling everyone what to do??? :doh:
I didnt say the EU was bankrupting us, I said the idea of giving our money away to every country in need so we could all be equal would probably bankrupt us.
Real example? How about the fact that it took 8 YEARS to deport that maniac Abu Hamza, and he cost us £25million while he was here.
We had to wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait until eventually the judges in Strasbourg let us deport someone from our own country. And they were reluctant to do it.
Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Post by: Scottymon on July 01, 2016, 08:50:34 am
After article 50, The UK will be trading under WTO rules until new deals with the EU are made which could be 10 years, as they start fresh, sigh.
The UK, if they are going to article 50, should seek out the free trade deal with India that they sought but were blocked by EU after 9 years!
Then we can all drive Jag/Landrover from TATA more cheaply than VAG. Just need Jag to make a hot hatch, the ingenium engine designed AND built in the UK. Iirc the ecoboost was designed in the UK too.
Post by: Craig Stanley on July 01, 2016, 09:10:43 am
It all shows how restrictive the EU is when you look how hard they make it to leave.You should run for PM dude as you are clearly educated on the whole Brexit issue.
After article 50, The UK will be trading under WTO rules until new deals with the EU are made which could be 10 years, as they start fresh, sigh.
The UK, if they are going to article 50, should seek out the free trade deal with India that they sought but were blocked by EU after 9 years!
Then we can all drive Jag/Landrover from TATA more cheaply than VAG. Just need Jag to make a hot hatch, the ingenium engine designed AND built in the UK. Iirc the ecoboost was designed in the UK too.
Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Post by: garrardrj on July 01, 2016, 09:19:48 am
I'm all for helping out fellow man and colour/ race/ religion doesn't really matter to me but you can't bankrupt yourself trying to save everyone when they don't always seem to be helping themselves.
Also if the people in control of the EU were focused on that rather than trying to tell everyone what they should do the world would be a better place.
At what point was our contribution to the EU bankrupting the UK?
Compare the UK's financial contribution to the EU in 2015 at £8.5 Billion net (after what we get back) against the loss to UK companies following the 'out' decision of over £120 Billion, and the biggest drop in Sterling in over 30 years? Which was the biggest impact on the UK's economy? Clue: not the UK's payment to the EU.
What real examples do you have of the EU telling everyone what to do??? :doh:
Your £120bn quoted above is NOT a real figure , the £8.5bn IS
Post by: Dan_FR on July 01, 2016, 09:58:29 am
The best any of us can do now is embrace and support the future this country has voted for
Post by: Johnsy on July 01, 2016, 10:02:10 am
It all shows how restrictive the EU is when you look how hard they make it to leave.
After article 50, The UK will be trading under WTO rules until new deals with the EU are made which could be 10 years, as they start fresh, sigh.
The UK, if they are going to article 50, should seek out the free trade deal with India that they sought but were blocked by EU after 9 years!
Then we can all drive Jag/Landrover from TATA more cheaply than VAG. Just need Jag to make a hot hatch, the ingenium engine designed AND built in the UK. Iirc the ecoboost was designed in the UK too.
My understanding is, whoever is in charge when EU/government negotiations start will not invoke article 50 until they have negotiated said trade deals , negotiating from a potion of power so to speak.
If they invoke article 50,the clock is ticking and EU beaurocrats hold all of the cards .
As has previously been mentioned I think we import more goods than we export to/from Europe
Post by: Craig Stanley on July 01, 2016, 10:25:47 am
A Jag hot hatch. No ta:). Happy with my Golf thanks.It all shows how restrictive the EU is when you look how hard they make it to leave.
After article 50, The UK will be trading under WTO rules until new deals with the EU are made which could be 10 years, as they start fresh, sigh.
The UK, if they are going to article 50, should seek out the free trade deal with India that they sought but were blocked by EU after 9 years!
Then we can all drive Jag/Landrover from TATA more cheaply than VAG. Just need Jag to make a hot hatch, the ingenium engine designed AND built in the UK. Iirc the ecoboost was designed in the UK too.
My understanding is, whoever is in charge when EU/government negotiations start will not invoke article 50 until they have negotiated said trade deals , negotiating from a potion of power so to speak.
If they invoke article 50,the clock is ticking and EU beaurocrats hold all of the cards .
As has previously been mentioned I think we import more goods than we export to/from Europe
Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Post by: Scottymon on July 01, 2016, 10:26:11 am
It all shows how restrictive the EU is when you look how hard they make it to leave.
After article 50, The UK will be trading under WTO rules until new deals with the EU are made which could be 10 years, as they start fresh, sigh.
The UK, if they are going to article 50, should seek out the free trade deal with India that they sought but were blocked by EU after 9 years!
Then we can all drive Jag/Landrover from TATA more cheaply than VAG. Just need Jag to make a hot hatch, the ingenium engine designed AND built in the UK. Iirc the ecoboost was designed in the UK too.
My understanding is, whoever is in charge when EU/government negotiations start will not invoke article 50 until they have negotiated said trade deals , negotiating from a potion of power so to speak.
If they invoke article 50,the clock is ticking and EU beaurocrats hold all of the cards .
As has previously been mentioned I think we import more goods than we export to/from Europe
Wouldn't it be nice. But no, EU wont begin new Trade talks until we Article 50; their not going to allow us that freedom of choice. The same as we won't get access to the free market if we don't allow free movement of people, the latter being why most BrExited in the first place.
EU talks often take FOREVER, so our best bet is to strike world trade deals that we sort previously and have been denied, along side EU discussions, hopefully they would take less time, but who knows.
I swear the EU and US want some sort of Pangeian World order to control us all.
Post by: Craig Stanley on July 01, 2016, 11:00:16 am
At the end of the day we, the public, have done our part and voted in the referendum. The rest of it is now up to the politicians (as much as that pains me to say). Arguing over biased and manipulated figures/reporting achieves nothing - and yes of course the figures are manipulated and interpreted in a way that aids the view point of whoever is reporting themSecond that.
The best any of us can do now is embrace and support the future this country has voted for
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Post by: Bard on July 01, 2016, 11:28:51 am
I'm even more dismayed at the lineup for our next PM - my other half is a teacher and ran a large 6th form, as such I've heard many different views on the education system in this country what does/doesn't work about the current system and ideas for the future (from people that deal with it on a daily basis) I've yet to hear a single professional in the education sector actually agree with Gove's implementations or views. The possibility of him as PM scares me and I don't believe for one second that if he ran a contest for PM by democracy he would win (ok it's within the rules to change personnelle but I think the mandate would be demonstrably different to Cameron/Osborne's) , becoming PM by the backdoor in the same way as Gordon Brown is his only way to that office (IMO). Having said that May seems to want to abandon the goal of running a budget surplus, a horrific step away from the policies in place. All of that heartache and pain for those in need for nothing now? (as a point I believe trying to get back to a surplus is a good thing, difficult decisions being taken. And I'm willing to say that I've not really been affected by any of those changes so it's easier to have that viewpoint).
The EU was/is far from perfect and as the graphic showing net contributors/beneficiaries shows there's clearly a discrepancy between what we put in and got out, but less than Germany for example. I think it's quite a progressive thing to be helping those other countries develop. My concern is the larger issues at stake that affect the world, regardless of lines on a map. These include global warming the EU is able to implement and push measures that help us move toward a more sustainable world. China's GDP/Economic growth over the last decade has exploded and since slowed but at what cost to the environment in the long term? It's slowdown to me points toward that the growth wasn't sustainable and so could have happened with less cost to the planet. An organisation like the EU can help bring these things into focus. It's a similar argument as we have with the banks and bonuses - focus on short term gain over long term stability, in the long run that oversight and governance helps, not only with what happens but record keeping and analysis of what is going on so we can learn from the past.
I'm disappointed that the campaigns focused almost exclusively on Economics and Migration. Don't get me wrong, they are 2 huge issues facing this country (and many others). My largest worry though is cultural. We are to move away from the EU - our neighbours and cultural heavyweights in Europe will still be on our doorstep as we probably move to a closer purely capitalist society like the United States. Personally I like being European, having lived in Europe for several years in my early 20's I would rather we were closer culturally to these countries and further from the US. Working for a global US company I can see the benefits of the capitalist pursuit of the almighty dollar but at the macro level I'm not convinced it's the best thing for the population. The out campaign's slogans around the 350M for the NHS is all well and good, but that statement comes from those inside the government that are to the right wing of the tory party, it can easily be argued that those same people are working to privatise our healthcare and education already, clearly in conflict with their promises on the campaign trail. This conflict takes us towards a US model where healthcare is based on your ability to pay, your luck in finding work with a healthcare insurance plan or being treated in emergency and being stuck with costs you cannot bear.
Ooops rather long post there! I'll stop blabbering!
Post by: Juliand on July 01, 2016, 11:46:34 am
Absolutely - I voted in but now the referendum has given us an answer we need to move forward and make it work. As others in the thread have said I'm massively dismayed at the lies and half truths that having been presented as facts have unravelled extremely quickly.Good post....The principles of the EU are generally soundly based - there might be some niggling issues, of course, but to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' is a very expensive sledge hammer to crack a small peanut......IMO.
I'm even more dismayed at the lineup for our next PM - my other half is a teacher and ran a large 6th form, as such I've heard many different views on the education system in this country what does/doesn't work about the current system and ideas for the future (from people that deal with it on a daily basis) I've yet to hear a single professional in the education sector actually agree with Gove's implementations or views. The possibility of him as PM scares me and I don't believe for one second that if he ran a contest for PM by democracy he would win (ok it's within the rules to change personnelle but I think the mandate would be demonstrably different to Cameron/Osborne's) , becoming PM by the backdoor in the same way as Gordon Brown is his only way to that office (IMO). Having said that May seems to want to abandon the goal of running a budget surplus, a horrific step away from the policies in place. All of that heartache and pain for those in need for nothing now? (as a point I believe trying to get back to a surplus is a good thing, difficult decisions being taken. And I'm willing to say that I've not really been affected by any of those changes so it's easier to have that viewpoint).
The EU was/is far from perfect and as the graphic showing net contributors/beneficiaries shows there's clearly a discrepancy between what we put in and got out, but less than Germany for example. I think it's quite a progressive thing to be helping those other countries develop. My concern is the larger issues at stake that affect the world, regardless of lines on a map. These include global warming the EU is able to implement and push measures that help us move toward a more sustainable world. China's GDP/Economic growth over the last decade has exploded and since slowed but at what cost to the environment in the long term? It's slowdown to me points toward that the growth wasn't sustainable and so could have happened with less cost to the planet. An organisation like the EU can help bring these things into focus. It's a similar argument as we have with the banks and bonuses - focus on short term gain over long term stability, in the long run that oversight and governance helps, not only with what happens but record keeping and analysis of what is going on so we can learn from the past.
I'm disappointed that the campaigns focused almost exclusively on Economics and Migration. Don't get me wrong, they are 2 huge issues facing this country (and many others). My largest worry though is cultural. We are to move away from the EU - our neighbours and cultural heavyweights in Europe will still be on our doorstep as we probably move to a closer purely capitalist society like the United States. Personally I like being European, having lived in Europe for several years in my early 20's I would rather we were closer culturally to these countries and further from the US. Working for a global US company I can see the benefits of the capitalist pursuit of the almighty dollar but at the macro level I'm not convinced it's the best thing for the population. The out campaign's slogans around the 350M for the NHS is all well and good, but that statement comes from those inside the government that are to the right wing of the tory party, it can easily be argued that those same people are working to privatise our healthcare and education already, clearly in conflict with their promises on the campaign trail. This conflict takes us towards a US model where healthcare is based on your ability to pay, your luck in finding work with a healthcare insurance plan or being treated in emergency and being stuck with costs you cannot bear.
Ooops rather long post there! I'll stop blabbering!
Where are all of the civil servants etc with the necessary skills and expertise to work through these complicated and lengthy trade deals???
The UK is ill-equipped to go it alone. A big worry...
Post by: Scottymon on July 01, 2016, 11:52:08 am
Regarding Health Care, have you read about TTIP? That's the US and EU (behind closed doors) trying to get Privatization of our services including the NHS.
Make no mistake about it, the democratic deficit in the EU is rife.
Post by: Bard on July 01, 2016, 12:23:06 pm
At this rate the conversation is going to go toward the level of corruption around the world and it's leaders, and to be more precise the level of detected corruption vs corruption that can be inferred from lobbying (as above) vs direct pay offs and the impact that has on the citizens of the world's nations. The TTIP just shows that holding public office should be purely in the public's interest. Though obviously you could then get into the circular argument that allowing business greater access and growth because of this helps GDP and actually helps the average citizen so therefore by acting in a way that harms consumer rights and protections is actually in their interest...
Post by: Juliand on July 01, 2016, 04:06:01 pm
This case fell under the provisions of the European Convention on Human Rights - Not the EU - the two are very different, which just shows how the EU can be blamed for anything with the word 'European' in it.
I'm all for helping out fellow man and colour/ race/ religion doesn't really matter to me but you can't bankrupt yourself trying to save everyone when they don't always seem to be helping themselves.
Also if the people in control of the EU were focused on that rather than trying to tell everyone what they should do the world would be a better place.
At what point was our contribution to the EU bankrupting the UK?
Compare the UK's financial contribution to the EU in 2015 at £8.5 Billion net (after what we get back) against the loss to UK companies following the 'out' decision of over £120 Billion, and the biggest drop in Sterling in over 30 years? Which was the biggest impact on the UK's economy? Clue: not the UK's payment to the EU.
What real examples do you have of the EU telling everyone what to do??? :doh:
I didnt say the EU was bankrupting us, I said the idea of giving our money away to every country in need so we could all be equal would probably bankrupt us.
Real example? How about the fact that it took 8 YEARS to deport that maniac Abu Hamza, and he cost us £25million while he was here.
We had to wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait until eventually the judges in Strasbourg let us deport someone from our own country. And they were reluctant to do it.
In or out of the EU, the UK remains a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights....
Post by: dansmith180 on July 01, 2016, 05:16:09 pm
This case fell under the provisions of the European Convention on Human Rights - Not the EU - the two are very different, which just shows how the EU can be blamed for anything with the word 'European' in it.
I'm all for helping out fellow man and colour/ race/ religion doesn't really matter to me but you can't bankrupt yourself trying to save everyone when they don't always seem to be helping themselves.
Also if the people in control of the EU were focused on that rather than trying to tell everyone what they should do the world would be a better place.
At what point was our contribution to the EU bankrupting the UK?
Compare the UK's financial contribution to the EU in 2015 at £8.5 Billion net (after what we get back) against the loss to UK companies following the 'out' decision of over £120 Billion, and the biggest drop in Sterling in over 30 years? Which was the biggest impact on the UK's economy? Clue: not the UK's payment to the EU.
What real examples do you have of the EU telling everyone what to do??? :doh:
I didnt say the EU was bankrupting us, I said the idea of giving our money away to every country in need so we could all be equal would probably bankrupt us.
Real example? How about the fact that it took 8 YEARS to deport that maniac Abu Hamza, and he cost us £25million while he was here.
We had to wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait until eventually the judges in Strasbourg let us deport someone from our own country. And they were reluctant to do it.
In or out of the EU, the UK remains a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights....
Ahhhh, I did not know that. I was under the impression it was because of our affiliation with the EU that we had to go through all that BS. Yes it's very hard work sifting through all the sh*t to try and find out what's fact and fiction. I was very annoyed at both sides of the campaign for blatantly just lying and exaggerating to make a point.
The best way to do it would be to read a large page/ list/ booklet of FACTS, do a test on it to make sure you understood it and only if you got a passing grade should you be eligible to vote. That would be a dream world.
Post by: Craig Stanley on July 01, 2016, 07:11:01 pm
Not a bad idea really.This case fell under the provisions of the European Convention on Human Rights - Not the EU - the two are very different, which just shows how the EU can be blamed for anything with the word 'European' in it.
I'm all for helping out fellow man and colour/ race/ religion doesn't really matter to me but you can't bankrupt yourself trying to save everyone when they don't always seem to be helping themselves.
Also if the people in control of the EU were focused on that rather than trying to tell everyone what they should do the world would be a better place.
At what point was our contribution to the EU bankrupting the UK?
Compare the UK's financial contribution to the EU in 2015 at £8.5 Billion net (after what we get back) against the loss to UK companies following the 'out' decision of over £120 Billion, and the biggest drop in Sterling in over 30 years? Which was the biggest impact on the UK's economy? Clue: not the UK's payment to the EU.
What real examples do you have of the EU telling everyone what to do??? :doh:
I didnt say the EU was bankrupting us, I said the idea of giving our money away to every country in need so we could all be equal would probably bankrupt us.
Real example? How about the fact that it took 8 YEARS to deport that maniac Abu Hamza, and he cost us £25million while he was here.
We had to wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait until eventually the judges in Strasbourg let us deport someone from our own country. And they were reluctant to do it.
In or out of the EU, the UK remains a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights....
Ahhhh, I did not know that. I was under the impression it was because of our affiliation with the EU that we had to go through all that BS. Yes it's very hard work sifting through all the sh*t to try and find out what's fact and fiction. I was very annoyed at both sides of the campaign for blatantly just lying and exaggerating to make a point.
The best way to do it would be to read a large page/ list/ booklet of FACTS, do a test on it to make sure you understood it and only if you got a passing grade should you be eligible to vote. That would be a dream world.
Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Post by: garrardrj on July 01, 2016, 10:06:51 pm
I do not think that we will actually leave the EU , the negotiations will start and ofher nations will be contemplating leaving too , most nations in the EU know that. I believe there will be a revamp of the EU , a rebranding or renaming or similar. If the EU are allows the UK out that will be the end of the EU and it is to many countries detriment. How the next two years or so develop will be intersting , but the first step is implementing article 50 , will it be done ?
Post by: FJ1000 on July 02, 2016, 12:59:03 am
Brexfast - A full English. Certainly not a "continental" (shudder)
Brexceit - A deceitful lie that unravels the morning after it's too late
Brexsade - A campaign for something followed by quitting at the crucial moment of taking it to completion
Brexcrete - What one does when they realise they're the turkey, and they just voted for christmas
Brexcuse - "What £350million? No that wasn't me that said that, it was them"
Brexecute - To "brexecute" an action, is to not do it and ask someone else to do it instead, after at least 3 months
Brexperts - Newly discovered economics and political experts, previously proficient only in scratching their own arses and moaning a lot.
Brexotic holiday - Bognor. In November.
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Post by: FJ1000 on July 02, 2016, 01:11:33 am
She's said she won't be calling an early election, and won't be invoking article 50 this year. Meanwhile the EU have re-stated no negotiations until article 50 is invoked. Yippee, more time in limbo, and an unelected leader for 4 years. Let's hope she gets forced to call the election.
The B of E has been getting busy trying to keep markets propped up; the £250bn pledge, and now talk about rate cuts already. Interest rate futures are pricing in a 25bps cut in the base rate in August, and rates might hit 0. For the first time ever, the yield on a gilt has gone negative (I think it was the 10 year). Looks like the US fed is going to hold off raising rates in the states for the time being too, to observe what happens in markets in reaction to BREXIT. There's also speculation that the EU will extend and broaden it's bond buying program to keep European credit markets happy.
Most analysis I've read, e.g. Goldman FX projections published early Friday, points to no imminent recovery in £/$.
I'm more worried about Europe though. There's an Italian banks crisis looming, elections in France and Germany. Is BREXIT going to be the catalyst for a crash in Europe? Let's hope not, we suffer too in that scenario.
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Post by: Shoduchi on December 28, 2016, 11:20:58 pm